Need help with a new run


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Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:53

Need help with a new run

Hello all, I just started a Minotaur of Pakellas (Pastebin will be below) around 5 hours ago, and just finished the Lair and the Orcish Mines. I am currently sweeping up the rest of the normal Dungeon Floors, and then plan on making a decision from there, but I really don't know what to do first. I have the Snake Pits, Slime Pit, and Shoal. I also have access to the Elven Halls but last time I went there I was ganked by 12 demonlogists and completely surrounded. I am decently new to Dungeon Crawl, and have never been able to go past 2 runes.

Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/edNGzn2g

Anyways, let me just say that Pakellas is DOPE AS HELL. He gifted me a rod of inaccuracy on D:11 (The same floor I found Mines and Lair on) and after leveling Evocations a few times I could two shot Seven-Headed Hydras and Death Yak. If no one knows about the new god I strongly recommend checking him out. Basically you loose the ability to regenerate MP, but Pakellas gives you MP from kills, and often gifts you potions of magic. He also gives you a Rod once you get to Piety 2-3 and gifts you several wands. As well as gives you the ability to use your MP to channel power to your rods and wands, and charging your next use of any spell/rod. Plus you get piety very quickly. (Plus Plus once you reach Piety level 6 he can permanently supercharge a rod or wand.)

With that out of the way, here are some of the questions I have:

1. Should I continue leveling Dodging, or should I go more into Fighting, Evocations and Maces/Flails?
2. Which path should I go first? Shoals/Snake Pit/Slime Pits or Elven Halls?
3. Should I continue leveling my +7 Flail of Chrushing and using a shield, or pick up a Great Mace and brand it?
4.I have the option to purchase some Mottled Dragon Armour from a Merchant for 1400-ish gold. Should I do it and drop the Plate?
5. What armour and AC/Dodge rating should I go for in general?
6. Will continually leveling Evocations improve my chances of hitting with my Rod of Inaccuracy?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for all the questions.
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Shoals Surfer

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Joined: Wednesday, 9th March 2016, 20:00

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 00:05

Re: Need help with a new run

1. You have too much Dodging compared to your other skills, in my opinion. Concentrate on your offense now, especially your M&F skill to the level which is required to achieve minimum delay with your weapon. Speaking of which, you oughta get a better weapon (higher base damage) if you can. Usually, you'd want to increase your weapon skill first and foremost, with Fighting and defensive skills following behind.
2. Snake Pit, then Shoals will probably be the easiest path. The Slime Pits are much harder and should be left for later, if done at all. The Elven Halls are also quite hard and not in any way necessary for the 3-rune game. Skip the Elven Halls for now. You should only go there if you are lacking items and need more treasure desperately, and even then - be careful and have good MR as well as means of escape.
3. Definitely pick up a great mace, or something even better. A flail is not a good weapon past the early game, and Crushing (i.e. Vorpal) is one of the weaker brands in existence. Personally, I'd advise you to forget about shields and pick up a 2-handed mace of some sort, but a one-handed weapon and a shield might also work (just get a better weapon, whether one- or two-handed!).
4. Nah, you should stay with the plate. MDA is for casters and weaklings. You are a minotaur, you want the heaviest armor you can get.
5. 31/15 is good for now. In my experience, 40/20 is actually enough to complete the 3-rune game without much trouble as a melee character.
6. I doubt it, the point of that rod is that it's inaccurate and only hits targets with next to no EV. Its damage might increase though - I'm not sure.

I don't see why you would apologise for asking questions.
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 00:25

Re: Need help with a new run

Malevolent wrote:3. Definitely pick up a great mace, or something even better. A flail is not a good weapon past the early game, and Crushing (i.e. Vorpal) is one of the weaker brands in existence. Personally, I'd advise you to forget about shields and pick up a 2-handed mace of some sort, but a one-handed weapon and a shield might also work (just get a better weapon, whether one- or two-handed!).


The thing is my flail is plus 7 or 8 right now, and does as much damage as a base Great Mace (Plus the Vorpal Brand) as well as having a faster attack rate and the ability to use a shield. It is the currently the best weapon I can see using because of it's heavy enchantments.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 909

Joined: Thursday, 3rd January 2013, 20:32

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 04:42

Re: Need help with a new run

Weapon Damage (from Knowledge Bots):
  Code:
1d(base*strength_bonus)*skill_bonus + 1d(to_dam + slaying) + various bonuses

Weapon enchantment is additive, whereas base damage is multiplied by several factors. The only way I'd keep using one-handers is if there was a well-enchanted/well-branded eveningstar or demon whip in the game already, and there probably isn't. Ctrl-F for "great mace" and use that brand weapon scroll on the best-enchanted one you find (unless it is already flaming/freezing). There is no such thing as "something even better" than a great mace on this character because minotaurs can't wield giant clubs.

Rod of Inaccuracy Accuracy (also Knowledge Bots):
  Code:
Damage is 10d[(45 + Evo*3)/10]. Accuracy is always 1, regardless of Evo.

You really do have too much dodging. Stop training dodging. You are long past the point of getting good returns for it. Train your weapon skill, and also fighting and amour.

You may want to alternate between Snake and Shoals. IMO those are both the harder of the S branches for most characters. Dip carefully into each, use lots of luring/stairdancing, and switch between them anytime you get worried or don't have a safe staircase to alternate to. Even if you clear the first few floors of one branch no problem, try to clear the first few floors of the other before tackling either rune.
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)
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Slime Squisher

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Joined: Thursday, 14th April 2011, 17:28

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 05:53

Re: Need help with a new run

For both Snake and Shoals, make sure you have rPoison!

Btw, Pakellas gives those potions of magic to you when you've been at full mana for a little while and still killing things. I'm also a big fan of this god.
infinitevox on akrasiac & berotato
Busy dying horrible deaths from chugging too many pots of Mutation.

Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Thursday, 3rd January 2013, 20:32

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 16:43

Re: Need help with a new run

rPois a convenience, not a necessity. It's the difference between pressing 5 a bunch and pressing 5 a slightly bigger bunch.
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)

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Sar

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 16:48

Re: Need help with a new run

I've had a character recently who had 35-40ish EV and 7 AC, wearing a robe of rPois. I did Spider and it was pretty damn terrible, I was getting poisoned every fight and had to press 5 a lot. Then I bought a +0 pearl dragon armour in a shop in Shoals, enchanted it and my defenses looked something like 26-26/30-30 (with and without Heroism). I could buy a ring of rPois, but I didn't, and I didn't regret it once, I barely even got poisoned with these defenses. The moral of the story, I guess, is that "you need good AC for Spider" isn't something people will ever say, but "you need rPois" is a common opinion for some reason.

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Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 17:01

Re: Need help with a new run

Alright well thanks for the advice guys, I bought the enchanted Great Mace from the shop and it was a +2 Great Mace of Draining. I re-branded it and got Electricity. Is that good?

EDIT: I quaffed a potion of mutation and got Robustness, Fire Resistance, and Clarity hopefully that will help a good bit! I will update my progress after attempting to clear the first few floors of Snake Pits. Wish me luck!
Last edited by Rokirem on Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 17:22, edited 2 times in total.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 856

Joined: Friday, 31st October 2014, 10:03

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 17:05

Re: Need help with a new run

Rokirem wrote:Alright well thanks for the advice guys, I bought the enchanted Great Mace from the shop and it was a +2 Great Mace of Draining. I re-branded it and got Electricity. Is that good?

Elec is the best overall brand, so yes, even though draining (or almost any brand) in a 3-rune game is quite good as well.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)

Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 18:19

Re: Need help with a new run

Okay, big update I guess, I rotated between Snake Pits and Shoals and got to Level 4 on both.
During that time here are some of the things I got:
Manual of Dodging (Makes skill aptitude +4)
A scroll of Acquirement (I used it to get the " +3 Gauntlets of Slaying" (Slay +5)
My Great Mace up to +4
My Maces&Flails up to lvl 20
Fighting up to 17.5

Anyways I have a question about where to go from here. First off, I encountered a unique enemy that is a female merfolk that can apparently move tides and summon water elementals and stuff? I am completely terrified of her, but I almost died multiple times in the Snake Pits and don't know where to progress from here. Any suggestions?

I'm sooooo excited this is probably the best run I have ever had, even though I have not gotten the runes yet I feel like I have the best gear out of any characters I have had.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1193

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 20:51

Re: Need help with a new run

Manual of Dodging and Gauntlets of War are both amazing.

Stop training M&F at 20. Your Great Mace is at min delay.

Keep pushing Fighting.

You should get the rune from Snake: 4 first. I usually then do Shoals:4, but others argue for going to Vaults:1-4 first.

The unique merfolk, Ilsuiw, is nasty. However, she doesn't see invisible. Quaffing invisibility and flight is a good way to take her out. Note, see may turn invisible, so you'll probably need SInv, too. And be ready to flee if things go badly.

The merfolk professionals (avatar, aquamancer, javelineer, imapler, plus sirens and water nymphs) can be quite nasty too. Don't underestimate any fight with multiple of them. Bring some scrolls of noise or fog to break mesmerise and fear. (Noise only works on mesmerize.) High MR is better to avoid the effects completely. If you can help it, don't fight while standing in shallow water: it has a significant reduction on accuracy, movement rate, and stealth. Either move out of the water, or wait for it to subside before pressing on into dangerous territory. Finally, use flight (potion (100% success) of evokable (success depends on evocations skill) e.g. from a ring) if you're forced to fight or flee in shallow water.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Joined: Sunday, 5th April 2015, 22:37

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 21:20

Re: Need help with a new run

Generally you want to put pints into dex on a MiFi to get better returns on dodging.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/playe ... speon.html. I started playing in 0.16.1
I achieved greatplayer in less than a year.
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Wednesday, 18th May 2016, 23:15

Re: Need help with a new run

Okay I just beat the Shoals and Snake Pits and got both runes. Whats next, Vaults? If so what are some tips you have for it?

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1739

Joined: Tuesday, 13th March 2012, 02:48

Post Thursday, 19th May 2016, 00:44

Re: Need help with a new run

Have good MR.

Don't go to V:5

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Thursday, 19th May 2016, 08:26

Re: Need help with a new run

V:1-4 is mostly about managing the human vault professionals: if a convoker might finish chanting word of recall, you should strongly consider making yourself scarce before that happens. If you see a vault warden, be aware that it may seal the doors around you making conventional escape impossible. If you see a vault sentinel, try to avoid giving it line-of-sight to you unless you have at least MR+++ or a good escape plan. If you do get marked by a vault sentinel, consider using cancellation to remove the Mark, or at least try to get to a stairs to escape quickly.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 77

Joined: Tuesday, 17th May 2016, 23:26

Post Thursday, 19th May 2016, 18:50

Re: Need help with a new run

What's on V:5? You guys are scaring me.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 162

Joined: Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 06:04

Post Thursday, 19th May 2016, 19:35

Re: Need help with a new run

The learndb has an okay description:

  Code:
You start off surrounded by a ring of 24 vault guards (think orc knights or so) a couple of spaces away. Also scattered throughout the level (and often, the entrance too) are many of the game's tougher enemies (be prepared for all sorts of nasty D, C, and c). Teleport control is allowed and very useful. If you're unfamiliar, and opposed to magic mapping: in the cardinal directions are hallways that lead to the level's square perimeter; diagonally from the start, there are 4 vaults of varying (per character build and play styles) difficulty, one of which contains the silver rune, and all of which contain nasty bad guys and probably-decent loot. A great place to spot creatures of crawl myth, such as iron/quicksilver dragons, titans. Expect to fight a multitude of shadow dragons, stone giants and glowing shapeshifters.


[You can ignore the remark about teleport control if you're playing a current version of the game.]

In case you're a tiles player: D, C, and c respectively mean dragons, giants, and yaktaurs/yaktaur captains. There's also a good chance you'll run into liches and ancient liches. The floor contains vault wardens and vault sentinels, so you can get marked or have the upstairs closed off (so don't peek your head down there until you're prepared to do it for real).

V:5 contains a rune but is much scarier than V:1--4, and usually people put it off until after depths at least (or just don't do it).

If you're not opposed to such things, I'd say that before descending your first time, it's worth trying to watch someone online doing V:5, or even exploring it with a wizmode character, so you know what to expect. The level always looks a certain way, with variations in how the quadrant vaults are arranged. There are lots of threads here about how to do V:5, by the way; the most recent one is viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19885 and contains some good advice.

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