Best demigod


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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 02:27

Best demigod

What type char is the best demigod?
What stats should be raised?
What spell? What skill??
What equipment??

IMO that morgue described one of the best demigod:
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue-0.1 ... 032054.txt

any thought

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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 03:21

Re: Best demigod

My thoughts are that every time I'm on lld, it seems like I run into an EnterQ ghost and I find myself thinking "How the hell did someone with this set of spells/equipment/whatever die here?"

Anyway, best demigod is DgWn, obviously.

e: upon further review, I've decided that Dg is terrible. Only 3 good spells, bad stat distribution, uses shields... the list goes on.
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 11:26

Re: Best demigod

how do you even have such terrible defences and no level 9 spells in 3 runes

where did all the XP go

Autotraining?
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 11:31

Re: Best demigod

Sar

Sorry, that was not my morgue, so I can't answer detail.

What I can say is only
that demigod was lore keeper - win without raising any skill to 13

Sar

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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 11:44

Re: Best demigod

Oh, I see. That's pretty cool then.
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 12:51

Re: Best demigod

radinms wrote:IMO that morgue described one of the best demigod:

radinms wrote:that demigod was lore keeper - win without raising any skill to 13

OK, I'm confused.
DCSS: 79: ...{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAE
GrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}
SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAK
Bloat: 6: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}

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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 17:15

Re: Best demigod

Okay, for the conduct radinms describes, this is a p good char, although still way too much int.
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 17:34

Re: Best demigod

I Think DgSu with polearms or DgTm.
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 18:59

Re: Best demigod

I'm a fan of DgIE, since IE book can carry you through a long part of the game, but it also gives you plenty of options to expand your character based on what you find.

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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 19:03

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:I'm a fan of DgIE, since IE book can carry you through a long part of the game, but it also gives you plenty of options to expand your character based on what you find.

I agree with this, and I think FE is similar in this aspect. I had bad experience with DgTm however, Tm is a very slow and xp-greedy start, and Dg aptitudes don't help.
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Post Saturday, 15th August 2015, 19:41

Re: Best demigod

+1 for DgIE and DgSu.
DCSS: 79: ...{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAE
GrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}
SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAK
Bloat: 6: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}
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Post Sunday, 16th August 2015, 00:47

Re: Best demigod

DgIE > DgSu I think, maybe even EE if you want an easier transition into Tm spells.
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Post Sunday, 16th August 2015, 01:38

Re: Best demigod

Yeah, while I think DgSu and DgFE are both good combos, DgIE wins out simply because you can hybridize very quickly with relatively little danger. FE and Su both have a lot more trouble adjusting if the game's feeling stingy with spellbooks, whereas IE is arguably a better hybrid background than Sk while still being a solid book start for a career in conjurations, summons, or ice.
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Post Sunday, 16th August 2015, 02:05

Re: Best demigod

I think IE beats out Sk by a large margin, if only because the XP distribution is much easier to manage early game.
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Post Sunday, 16th August 2015, 21:54

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:Yeah, while I think DgSu and DgFE are both good combos, DgIE wins out simply because you can hybridize very quickly with relatively little danger. FE and Su both have a lot more trouble adjusting if the game's feeling stingy with spellbooks(...)

Huh? You can just as easily hybridize with FE as with IE. After you have sticky flame, what other spells would you really need to win?
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 01:07

Re: Best demigod

I'm not saying you can't "hybridize" an FE, just that it isn't as easy or as advantageous as it is with IE, especially in the context of Dg. Sticky flame may be good, but it's not nearly as helpful for a hybrid as ozo's armour and ice beasts, especially since charms and summoning are both more useful schools than fire and conjurations if you're going to be spending a lot of time in melee range with enemies.

That said, DgFE is really the only time I'd consider going "hybrid" as an FE. Virtually every other species should either stick to blasting with Sif/Veh or burn the book at the nearest Trog altar, unless there's some kind of game-changing floor item like a book of battle. Even with DgFE, I'd probably try to hold out for conjuration books for as long as possible before seriously investing in weapon skills.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 01:58

Re: Best demigod

HOFE, TeFE, NaFE, GrFE, HuFE... FE hybrid is not that hard, I believe Sticky Flame + Conjure Flame are more powerful spells for hybrids than anything IE can do. Later Freezing Cloud is great though.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 02:05

Re: Best demigod

What I want to say repeatedly is "ice magic is overestimated".

IMO DgFE or DgWz is easier than DgIE even if you go melee because melee FE or Wz is strong.

IE is weak...only freeze is strong in the early game, that is a most hard part, I believe.
Ice armour, shield is useless if you go medium or heavy armour+one-hander.
And Summon Ice Beast is weak. At least, after mid game, completely useless.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 02:10

Re: Best demigod

anyone remember before adblock when there were all the ads for that game called demigod and the ads were just a naked girl with some kind of thorny plants covering her nipples

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 02:54

Re: Best demigod

Sandman25 wrote:HOFE, TeFE, NaFE, GrFE, HuFE... FE hybrid is not that hard, I believe Sticky Flame + Conjure Flame are more powerful spells for hybrids than anything IE can do. Later Freezing Cloud is great though.

FE hybrid isn't hard, it's just kind of pointless. If you're so bad at using fire magic that you'd rather hit stuff, you'll probably have an easier time winning with Trog. If you're good with fire magic, most of the time, you should probably just be casting fire magic. If you want to cast spells and hit stuff, why did you start as an FE?

radinms wrote:What I want to say repeatedly is "ice magic is overestimated".

IMO DgFE or DgWz is easier than DgIE even if you go melee because melee FE or Wz is strong.

IE is weak...only freeze is strong in the early game, that is a most hard part, I believe.
Ice armour, shield is useless if you go medium or heavy armour+one-hander.
And Summon Ice Beast is weak. At least, after mid game, completely useless.

Eh, DgIE > DgWz, but mostly because DgIE can probably finish Lair even if literally nothing is on the floor, whereas DgWz runs into trouble if nothing good shows up to actually kill things.

As for the rest, you are wrong. Ozo's armour and condensation shield let you wear light armour and cast good spells without sacrificing defense, and they remain good pretty late into the game. Summon Ice Beasts is obviously not a spell you cast in Zot, but I've watched gammafunk get runes entirely based on ice beast damage more than once; it's a better spell than spectral weapon for a healthy chunk of the game.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 03:04

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:
Sandman25 wrote:HOFE, TeFE, NaFE, GrFE, HuFE... FE hybrid is not that hard, I believe Sticky Flame + Conjure Flame are more powerful spells for hybrids than anything IE can do. Later Freezing Cloud is great though.

FE hybrid isn't hard, it's just kind of pointless. If you're so bad at using fire magic that you'd rather hit stuff, you'll probably have an easier time winning with Trog. If you're good with fire magic, most of the time, you should probably just be casting fire magic. If you want to cast spells and hit stuff, why did you start as an FE?


http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/CheiMu/morg ... 050105.txt
Do you think I should have stayed in robe and gone for Fire Storm?

Spoiler: show
I cannot believe I am telling people they should not play as pure casters ;)
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 03:07

Re: Best demigod

Demigod can't worship trog. You know?
That's why I prefer book start at Dg.

And you underestimate book of minor magic.
that book has a very very good potential...
especially conjure flame, mephitic cloud.
Both are great cloud spells, that are just you want as hybrid.
(I didn't see any trouble as DgWz
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/rad ... 055436.txt)

compared to Wz or FE, IE *always* see too many trouble.
So I conclude IE is weak.

Edit.
And I always find "IE hybrid is too fragile".
I don't think "IE=good defense and good spells".
I believe "IE=bad defense and good spells".
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 03:27

Re: Best demigod

Sandman, I am disappointed.

I hope you say "Lv9 spell in 3-runes game is optimal even Mu of Chei".

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 03:39

Re: Best demigod

Sorry Sandman, I forgot to include, "Of course, none of this applies if you're playing on a novelty account where every character is a Mummy of Cheibriados." How silly of me.

Of course, on the other hand, you got your first level of a weapon skill right before turn 20,000, and, like Dg, you couldn't "choose" a god. I'm guessing that this MuFE just didn't find any more fire or conjurations? It looks like you didn't find a book store until 83k. This looks like the situation I described above with DgFE: you held out for spells, and when nothing appeared, you found the best weapon and made it work.

And radinms, Wz is a great background as long as you can find a way to kill things. It looks like this character relied on untrained weapons, magic dart, and call imp until D:6, when it found the amulet "Gacugas" {Ward rN+ Str+10 Dex+6}, which isn't really a strategy the rest of us can rely on. I think in most DgWz games, you'll find something good to do damage with before it becomes a problem.

I literally don't know how you can think "IE is weak."
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 03:50

Re: Best demigod

Weapon is guaranteed, you know?

You don't need weapon skill for early-Wz.
Fighting skill for HP and some power is enough.
And You can train bow skill.
After you get longbow, it is a powerful weapon.

I admit that amulet is crazy, but without that amulet, maybe I don't see so much troubles compared to IE.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 05:05

Re: Best demigod

I've had best success with a fighter start. When you're wearing plate and wielding a shield, the character just feels more robust in the early and midgame. With those negative apts, it's easier IMO to just focus on your weapon skill and fighting, then later on armour and dodging. I never train up that shield (over 4 if I find a good buckler) however, as a good twohander is increasingly better than a shield as the game progresses.

As for a weapon, there just seem to be more good maces lying around than the other weapon types. It's not unusual to find a great mace of holy wrath for example, but a good sword or axe or a polearm is more rare, and the best axes or polearms take forever to get to mindelay. And all maces are useful against hydras as an added bonus.

I've had one good conjurer demigod as well, but any species can succeed as a conjurer because your starting book is strong enough by itself. I never found a staff of energy though, and then the character just turned frustrating.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 06:06

Re: Best demigod

I don't know what is "good weapon" (you said).

the fact is:
great sword, glaive, battleaxe, bardiche is common

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 06:32

Re: Best demigod

radinms wrote:I don't know what is "good weapon" (you said).

the fact is:
great sword, glaive, battleaxe, bardiche is common

Maybe I'm thinking in an extended-game oriented way, but anything holy wrath is top tier, all the other brands come after. I've often seen great maces of holy wrath lying around but it's hard to recall finding another good base damage holy wrath weapon. And because demigods can't get the extended game weapon the usual way, by worshiping TSO, they have to rely on the random number gods, and they seem to favor maces.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 06:55

Re: Best demigod

I don't find great mace of holy wrath too much.

Maybe easier to find eudemon or sacred?
(you can get both by killing angel)

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 07:51

Re: Best demigod

Bardiches are not common (they are somewhat more common than other top one handers because some monsters spawn with them).

Edit: also holy wrath is pretty much the worst brand until extended (okay, it's better than venom).

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 10:05

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:FE hybrid isn't hard, it's just kind of pointless. If you're so bad at using fire magic that you'd rather hit stuff, you'll probably have an easier time winning with Trog. If you're good with fire magic, most of the time, you should probably just be casting fire magic. If you want to cast spells and hit stuff, why did you start as an FE?

Have you actually tried it? I bet you haven't. Casting sticky flame and then hitting with a weapon is brutally strong.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 11:07

Re: Best demigod

is it really so much better than hitting things with a weapon twice that it's worth the loss of exp and heavy armour?
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 11:35

Re: Best demigod

I'm not saying FE shouldn't ever pick up weapons. I'm saying that, if your goal is to play a character that wears light/medium armor in order to supplement melee attacks with spells (which is what I think people mean when they say "hybrid"), then you should probably pick Su, IE, Wz, Sk, or En, all of which can support that playstyle more quickly and directly than FE.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 12:43

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:Sorry Sandman, I forgot to include, "Of course, none of this applies if you're playing on a novelty account where every character is a Mummy of Cheibriados." How silly of me.

Of course, on the other hand, you got your first level of a weapon skill right before turn 20,000, and, like Dg, you couldn't "choose" a god. I'm guessing that this MuFE just didn't find any more fire or conjurations?


Mu has awful aptitudes so going all Fire Magic is a bad idea due to the way skills work in crawl. All characters on that account have conduct "stay with starting background" so I tried to be FE as much as I could. My point is that some characters must hybridize (or be dead), some other characters should hybridize (they can stay pure casters but it would be suboptimal, probably most species/gods fall in this category) and only a few characters can stay casters without hybridization. Not the other way around!

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 12:53

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:I'm not saying FE shouldn't ever pick up weapons. I'm saying that, if your goal is to play a character that wears light/medium armor in order to supplement melee attacks with spells (which is what I think people mean when they say "hybrid"), then you should probably pick Su, IE, Wz, Sk, or En, all of which can support that playstyle more quickly and directly than FE.

What *I* am saying is that FE is one of the best for that playstyle, about on par with IE.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 13:15

Re: Best demigod

radinms wrote:Ice armour, shield is useless if you go medium or heavy armour+one-hander.

This is like saying "demon whip of elec is a bad weapon because I threw it into lava." These spells are set up to allow you to be in light armour wielding 2H weapons while still having very high defenses. The only tradeoff for those ridiculous bonuses is that you have to constantly recast them, because they're poorly designed.

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 13:43

Re: Best demigod

Magipi wrote:Have you actually tried it? I bet you haven't. Casting sticky flame and then hitting with a weapon is brutally strong.


Hitting with weapon is even optional here. I love fighting Yaks and other groups with Sticky Flame, you can be surrounded by flaming monsters and don't care much because you are a hybrid, not a fragile caster. Double fun in corridors where you create a long line of conjured flame and melee those who were robust enough to make it through the whole line. FE is my favorite hybrid actually.
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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 15:16

Re: Best demigod

Lasty wrote:These spells are set up to allow you to be in light armour wielding 2H weapons while still having very high defenses. The only tradeoff for those ridiculous bonuses is that you have to constantly recast them, because they're poorly designed.


in my experience, ice armour and shield don't give "very high defense". that's why my OpIE died stupidly too many times.
under ozocubu's armour, still low AC
condensation shield...it's a buckler

if your str is >14, and have 10 ?enchant armour, and find fire dragon hide.(and you have rC)
even that situation, your IE still wears robe?

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 15:25

Re: Best demigod

radnims wrote:if your str is >14, and have 10 ?enchant armour, and find fire dragon hide.(and you have rC)

yes if all those things are true then your level 3 starting book spell becomes obsolete

well I guess that's settles it! IE are shit

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Post Monday, 17th August 2015, 15:59

Re: Best demigod

10 ?EA... and +0 helmet, cloak, boots and gloves.
DCSS: 79: ...{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAE
GrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}
SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAK
Bloat: 6: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 00:11

Re: Best demigod

archaeo wrote:I'm not saying FE shouldn't ever pick up weapons. I'm saying that, if your goal is to play a character that wears light/medium armor in order to supplement melee attacks with spells (which is what I think people mean when they say "hybrid"), then you should probably pick Su, IE, Wz, Sk, or En, all of which can support that playstyle more quickly and directly than FE.


I have had great success using conjure flames and a melee weapon. Eventually you get sticky flames and it gets even sillier. HOFE is a great hybrid character who supplements melee with spells. The difference between IE and FE is that the IE is pushed harder toward hybridizing, it's not actually any better at it.

In fact, I'll just come out and say that FE is flat out better than IE, once you're past the very early game. Plus IE is really boring, and there's no special tactics involved like with FE.

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 01:25

Re: Best demigod

dowan wrote:I have had great success using conjure flames and a melee weapon. Eventually you get sticky flames and it gets even sillier. HOFE is a great hybrid character who supplements melee with spells. The difference between IE and FE is that the IE is pushed harder toward hybridizing, it's not actually any better at it.

Right, obviously it doesn't help "hybrid" characters to have good AC and SH along with three meat shields whenever they want it, what was I thinking.

As I've said several times now, FE hybrids aren't bad, they're just usually the second choice option. Since this is clearly an unpopular point of view on several continents, and I'm not about to play greater FE to prove my point, I guess you guys win?

In fact, I'll just come out and say that FE is flat out better than IE, once you're past the very early game. Plus IE is really boring, and there's no special tactics involved like with FE.

I don't know which one is better, but sure, the IE defense spells suck to use, like Lasty said, and most people hate summons. I don't think inner flame and conjure flame really constitute "special tactics," but if you find it uniquely fulfilling, enjoy your fiery Crawling.

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 01:45

Re: Best demigod

"special tactics" in crawl just means "has goofy mechanics, and also sucks, but i'm in denial about the second part"

see: force lance, inner flame, passage of golubria, gell's, post-nerf leda's, iood
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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 01:54

Re: Best demigod

To start IE for some defense is strange.
get heavy armour, train armour and dodge, get spells, train magic.
--it is optimal at most races if you go "hybrid".

I don't hate summon.
I hate summon ice beast, because it is terrible weak and not MP-efficient compared to cloud spells.
I suggest buff ice beast, they should breath frost.
[[And summon cap should be 1]]
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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 07:03

Re: Best demigod

radinms wrote:I hate summon ice beast, because it is terrible weak and not MP-efficient compared to cloud spells.

No, it is very good.
DCSS: 79: ...{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAE
GrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}
SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAK
Bloat: 6: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}

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Sandman25, Sar

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 07:43

Re: Best demigod

wow a level 4 two-school spell is worse than a level 6 three-school one



IE are just the shittiest shit aren't they

Edit: @duvessa: why would you say ood sucks? It has its quirks but it's still one of the best damage spells past the starting book ones. As far as single target ones go it's pretty much parrow > ood > everything else IMO.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 08:29

Re: Best demigod

I mean Lv4-two school spell is worse than Lv3-two or three school.
sadly fact.

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Joined: Sunday, 30th December 2012, 05:26

Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 14:49

Re: Best demigod

wow it's not every day you have someone coming in and saying ice beasts are terrible weak

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 15:06

Re: Best demigod

ZipZipskins wrote:wow it's not every day you have someone coming in and saying ice beasts are terrible weak


They require planning in advance, you cannot just put a Conjure Flame and run away, or Sticky Flame/Meph Cloud that adjacent Ogre after going downstairs, or Blink away. I mean ice beasts are good for careful players and no so good (not terribly weak of course) for not so good players, you even have to watch your MP and plan accordingly for retreat ;)

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radinms

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Post Tuesday, 18th August 2015, 15:23

Re: Best demigod

I dunno, I think having to use some foresight and prediction and positioning with allies is significantly more interesting tactically than just farting out a cloud of confuse gas and running away but maybe that's just me.
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