New item: Rod of Cooling

[Pollen_Golem]

We have rods of Iron, Ignition, and Lightning, but no cold-themed rod yet. So let's have one. Can be evoked for a level-6 spell. At low power, shoots an underwhelming Bolt of Cold. As power increases, it tends to leave more and more freezing clouds in its path, which last longer with higher evo. At high power, it is akin to casting Glaciate in a narrow path to the edge of LOS - that's 7 tiles.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

rod of clouds already exists

[Pollen_Golem]

rod of ignition already exists
rod of destruction already exists
so what?

[KittenInMyCerealz]

so it would fill the same design space as those rods
Rod of frigid destruction (Throw Frost, Throw Icicle, Freezing Cloud) was removed in 0.14
and a lvl 9 spell on a rod would be op as fuck

rod of destruction should be removed and replaced by rod of smiting

[Pollen_Golem]

Old rods were removed, yet they worked very differently: you could choose a particular spell to evoke from it, rather than it happening randomly.

You may as well argue that rod of ignition and rod of clouds fill the same design, because rod of clouds can create fire clouds. Which would be OK, but your words are not exactly crystal clear.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

Old rods were removed, yet they worked very differently: you could choose a particular spell to evoke from it, rather than it happening randomly.

You may as well argue that rod of ignition and rod of clouds fill the same design, because rod of clouds can create fire clouds. Which would be OK, but your words are not exactly crystal clear.

Rod of Clouds is incredibly powerful, and so would the rod you suggested.
5x5 (or whatever the radius is) lasting cloud is quite a bit different than an explosion ignition makes.
I'm not a fan of Rod of Ignition either, but i let it pass since it kind of has it's own unique effect. Rod of Destruction is the worse of those 2.

[Pollen_Golem]

So the design space is... incredibly powerful rods? Why should that design space be filled with only one rod? It's like saying the design space of mass-effect spells are filled by Firestorm so there's no need for other high-level area-of-effect conjurations.

[KittenInMyCerealz]

So the design space is... incredibly powerful rods? Why should that design space be filled with only one rod? It's like saying the design space of mass-effect spells are filled by Firestorm so there's no need for other high-level area-of-effect conjurations.

No, its:
incredibly powerful rods
rods having the same effects as other rods
rods having the exact same effects as spells

icestorm was changed to glaciate because firestorm existed

[Arrhythmia]

minmay's on vacation at the moment, so i'm filling in for him to assure you the real reason ice storm was changed was because the devs didn't think it was bad enough and that this is the only possible explanation

[Sar]

I actually like Glaciate more than Fire Storm. At least the damage is good at some range!

[Pollen_Golem]

At low power, shoots an underwhelming Bolt of Cold. As power increases, it tends to leave more and more freezing clouds in its path, which last longer with higher evo. At high power, it is akin to casting Glaciate in a narrow path to the edge of LOS - that's 7 tiles.

That's quite different from both glaciate and rod of clouds.

Rod of clouds uses a random element, which can be the opposite of ice even at 27 evo. So take Gehenna/Cocytus as an example. There's a rod that reliably works well in Cocytus - ignition, and a rod that may be trifling or awesome in either hell. Yet there is no rod that reliably works well in Gehenna.

The wide spread of glaciate, and rod of clouds, is an extremely important aspect. Surely you don't think that limiting their spread to 1 tile wouldn't matter. And the limited range of glaciate is something to consider, too.

Most cards in the deck of destruction are variations on existing spells. Do you think deck of destruction should be expunged from Crawl?

[KittenInMyCerealz]

Most cards in the deck of destruction are variations on existing spells. Do you think deck of destruction should be expunged from Crawl?

the difference between those 2 is huge.
one is basically a god-ability (that can only be used once) and one is a rod

Surely you don't think that limiting their spread to 1 tile wouldn't matter. And the limited range of glaciate is something to consider, too.

then add the different way you'd see them work to your suggestion?

why are you discussing post-end? like anything in post-end is "balanced", or even should be.

[Pollen_Golem]

then add the different way you'd see them work to your suggestion?

which I did:

Bolt of Cold ... freezing clouds in its path

narrow path to the edge of LOS - that's 7 tiles.

[bcadren]

I agree that this is probably too similar to existing rods; an area that hasn't been used in rods though that could be interesting for an ice themed one. Making a temporary 8. (IE you can block a 1 tile thick hallway with an Ice Statue (be it an actual statue enemy or just a destructible block of ice) which the enemies have to hack through to get to you. That might be too powerful...but Lightning Rod and Rod of Clouds are already close to too powerful and I don't think this is much MORE powerful than that.

[jejorda2]

I think that "There is a reliable way to produce fire clouds with evocations, but not ice clouds" is a not a problem that should be solved, but a differentiation between fire and ice that should be celebrated. It helps keep enemies and branches different, which is a good thing.

There should not be an ice equivalent to most fire features or a fire equivalent to most ice features.