SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 16

Joined: Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 10:34

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 10:45

SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Hello guys,

I've been playing DCSS for many months, I can't even tell you exact date. I play on Android only.
I play mainly SpEn. Now I came to the diff point. I think staying with Vehument is silly for the longer time, but I really like MP regen when killing things.
What should I do next? Should I convert to TSO? I was thinking about Nemelex Xobeh also, but I don't like gambling. Please check my skills also. I think training Fighting and Charms would be useful. What spells are woth considering in the late game? I don't mind forgetting Lee's Rapid Deconstruction. I was learning spells form Vehument coz I thought they might be useful. But accualy confusing enemies/enslavement is my main strategy. I was also thinking about wands - I don't use them very often, on which should I focus?

Maybe my char is "broken" and it's better to start from the beginning? (But I really like my EQ <3)
Thanks in advance. I know there're many questions. I need some advices to go on.
Here's char dump.
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16.1 (tiles) character file.

Todi the Unseen (Spriggan Enchanter)               Turns: 40396, Time: 04:51:20

Health: 63/63      AC:  4    Str:  3    XL:     15   Next: 24%
Magic:  39/39      EV: 29    Int: 26    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   2713       SH:  0    Dex: 17    Spells: 10 memorised, 17 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +     D - +9 dagger "Eluggaighu" {holy, MR+}
rCold  . . .     Clarity  +     l - +2 robe {rN+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAb   .     (shield restricted)
rPois  +         Gourm    .     (helmet restricted)
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (boots unavailable)
MR     +++..                    i - amulet of Chiemeeplu {Clar rF++ Int+1 Stlth++}
Stlth  ++++++++++               x - +3 ring of intelligence
                                w - ring of poison resistance

@: very quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy
A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2,
weak 1
a: Renounce Religion


You are on level 15 of the Dungeon.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 30 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 3118 gold pieces.
You have spent 405 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 s - a +1 dagger of piercing
 D - the +9 dagger "Eluggaighu" (weapon) {holy, MR+}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead
   and demons.
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 R - a +2 dagger of venom
Armour
 l - a +2 robe of positive energy (worn)
 B - a +1 robe of resistance
Rods
 W - a +4 rod of destruction (11/11)
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
Jewellery
 i - the amulet of Chiemeeplu (around neck) {Clar rF++ Int+1 Stlth++}
   (You acquired it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 t - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 w - a ring of poison resistance (left hand)
 x - a +3 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 A - the amulet "Thefog" {rMut Int+2 Dex+1}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   
   It protects you from mutation.
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
Magical devices
 p - a wand of disintegration (0)
 r - a wand of paralysis
 u - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1}
 y - a wand of lightning (0)
 C - a wand of magic darts
 E - a wand of fire (1)
 G - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1}
 K - a wand of digging (8)
 N - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 1}
 T - a wand of polymorph
Scrolls
 a - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 e - 11 scrolls of remove curse
 h - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon
 k - 2 scrolls of blinking
 m - 3 scrolls of identify
 q - 7 scrolls of amnesia
 z - 3 scrolls of fog
 I - a scroll of silence
 J - a scroll of recharging
 O - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 Q - a scroll of holy word
Potions
 b - 3 potions of restore abilities
 d - a potion of porridge
 n - 2 potions of curing
 o - 2 potions of magic
 v - 2 potions of brilliance
 F - a potion of haste
 H - a potion of invisibility
 M - a potion of agility
 P - a potion of heal wounds
 V - 3 potions of cancellation
Books
 c - a book of Hinderance   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         2
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    d - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    e - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           5
    f - Summon Mana Viper            Hexes/Summoning               5
 j - a book of Control   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Control Teleport             Charms/Translocation          4
    b - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
    c - Enslavement                  Hexes                         4
    d - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    e - Mass Confusion               Hexes                         6
 S - a book of Spatial Translocations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Apportation                  Translocation                 1
    b - Blink                        Translocation                 2
    c - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    d - Portal Projectile            Translocation                 3
    e - Teleport Other               Translocation                 3
    f - Passage of Golubria          Translocation                 4
 X - a Grand Grimoire {highlevel}   
   This book is beyond your current level of understanding.
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Aura of Abjuration           Summoning                     6
    b - Summon Greater Demon         Summoning                     7
    c - Malign Gateway               Summoning/Translocation       7
    d - Summon Horrible Things       Summoning                     8
Miscellaneous
 f - a disc of storms
 L - a crystal ball of energy
 Y - a crystal ball of energy
 Z - a disc of storms
Comestibles
 g - 11 bread rations
 U - 2 royal jellies


   Skills:
 + Level 11,1 Short Blades
 + Level 13,7 Dodging
 * Level 19,8 Stealth
 * Level 16,1 Spellcasting
 * Level 12,2 Hexes
 + Level 12,8 Evocations


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Corona                Hex            ######.      0%          1    None
b - Ensorcelled Hibernat  Hex/Ice        ######       1%          2    None
c - Confuse               Hex            ######..     1%          3    None
d - Enslavement           Hex            ######..     1%          4    None
e - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      ###..        1%          1    None
f - Throw Frost           Conj/Ice       ###...       1%          2    None
g - Inner Flame           Hex/Fire       ######..     1%          3    None
h - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ###.......   26%         5    None
i - Flight                Chrm/Air       ###.......   10%         3    None
j - Metabolic Englaciati  Hex/Ice        ######....   8%          5    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (8/8) D:8
  Swamp (0/5) Lair:4       Spider (1/5) Lair:5        Slime (1/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:3        Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:6 *   D:10 }   D:14 }   Orc:4 *(:[


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are tiny and cannot use many weapons and most armour.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You are a herbivore.
You cover ground extremely quickly.
You need consume almost no food.
You are weak. (Str -2)


Message History

Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, Todi the Spriggan Enchanter.
Vehumet says: Let it end in hellfire!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
You start waiting.
Done waiting.
You are alive. Your movement speed is very quick.
Your attack speed is very fast (and cannot be increased with skill).
You are extremely resistant to hostile enchantments.
You feel uncannily stealthy.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (L) Lair           (S) Swamp         
(N) Spider Nest    (M) Slime Pits     (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(V) Vaults         (U) Depths         
Where to? (? - help)
Okay, then.
Char dumped to 'morgue/Todi.txt'.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.

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##...##.#.........####.
#.......'.........'..†.
##...##.#.........####.
 ##(###.##.......##  #)
  ##)([####.....##   #.
 ##.#(##@###...##    #.
 #.#.##...###'##     #.
 ##.(#..#..##.#      #.
  ##.#..#..##.#      #.
   #.#..#..##.##     ##
   #.#..#..#...##
   #.#..#..#...)#
   #.##..÷##...###
   #..##.###.....######
   #####.##.#.##.......


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Rupert (D:15)
  An orc warlord (Orc:4)
  A vault guard (D:14)
  A minotaur (Lab)
  Josephine (Orc:3)
  A fire dragon (D:15)
  Fannar (Lair:3)
  An ice dragon (D:15)
  9 hydras
  Erica (Lair:5)
  3 centaur warriors
  A death yak (Lair:7)
  5 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  Urug (D:14)
  Nergalle (D:15)
  3 wyverns
  A fire crab (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  An orb spider (Lair:5)
  Pikel (D:5)
  4 orc knights
  3 ugly things
  A wizard (D:14)
  5 hill giants
  A necromancer (D:14)
  An oklob plant (D:9)
  2 cyclopes (D:15)
  3 griffons
  5 black mambas
  5 orc sorcerers (Orc:4)
  A wolf spider (Orc:3)
  8 elephants
  22 orc warriors
  12 spiny frogs
  Joseph (D:7)
  2 centaur zombies
  A gargoyle (D:12)
  Psyche (D:8)
  A centaur skeleton (D:15)
  A removed MONS_ITEM_MIMIC (Orc:4)
  2 yaktaurs (D:14)
  7 komodo dragons
  A spriggan druid (Lair:8)
  Grinder (D:6)
  A redback zombie (D:13)
  A fire drake (Lair:8)
  A hydra zombie (D:8)
  17 polar bears
  4 trolls
  A hydra skeleton (D:7)
  4 two-headed ogres
  Prince Ribbit (D:4)
  2 deep elf magi
  8 slime creatures
  A deep elf fighter (D:14)
  6 blink frogs
  2 wandering mushrooms (Lair:4)
  A griffon zombie (D:11)
  A wraith (D:14)
  An ettin skeleton (Orc:3)
  8 spriggans (Lair:8)
  10 redbacks
  2 basilisks
  A water elemental (D:14)
  23 yaks
  Grum (D:8)
  6 hippogriffs
  A hungry ghost (D:13)
  8 humans (D:14)
  A vampire (D:15)
  24 wolves
  A warg (Orc:4)
  12 porcupines
  Edmund (D:4)
  16 water moccasins
  A gnoll sergeant (D:6)
  13 black bears
  8 ogres
  3 eyes of draining
  6 ice beasts
  6 wasps
  5 centaurs
  4 sky beasts
  2 boring beetles
  Sigmund (D:7)
  2 big kobolds (D:13)
  13 crocodiles
  11 giant frogs
  A cyclops zombie (D:11)
  A wyvern zombie (D:6)
  A yak zombie (D:9)
  2 scorpions
  5 wights
  A troll zombie (D:5)
  3 killer bees
  7 electric eels
  3 goliath beetles
  5 crimson imps
  5 iguanas
  4 jellies
  15 orc priests
  A quasit (D:7)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:2)
  5 human zombies (D:14)
  24 orc wizards
  An elf skeleton (D:14)
  12 hounds
  7 worker ants
  12 sheep
  An ogre zombie (Orc:3)
  A hound zombie (D:8)
  2 ogre skeletons
  4 gnolls
  20 river rats
  A removed MONS_INEPT_ITEM_MIMIC (D:4)
  4 shadow imps
  20 adders
  2 giant mites
  A worm (D:4)
  4 orc zombies
  4 orc skeletons
  An adder skeleton (D:8)
  4 oozes
  142 orcs
  15 bats
  2 bat zombies
  4 giant cockroaches
  A gnoll zombie (D:6)
  13 hobgoblins
  11 jackals
  19 kobolds
  8 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  7 giant geckos
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:4)
  5 giant newts
  4 giant spores
  16 goblins
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:5)
  A hobgoblin zombie (Orc:3)
  An orc simulacrum (Orc:3)
  13 rats
  10 ballistomycetes
  2 fungi
831 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  2 necromancers (D:14)
  An orc sorcerer (Orc:4)
  2 ugly things (D:14)
  A griffon (Lair:8)
  2 elephants (Lair:4)
  2 spiny frogs (Lair:8)
  4 polar bears
  A hellwing (Orc:4)
  A troll (Orc:2)
  A two-headed ogre (D:15)
  2 slime creatures
  A redback (Lair:8)
  2 yaks (D:8)
  A tarantella (Orc:3)
  5 humans (D:14)
  A neqoxec (Orc:4)
  2 deep elf magi (D:14)
  5 wolves (Lair:8)
  A hungry ghost (D:8)
  2 wargs (Orc:4)
  A hippogriff (Lair:8)
  An ice beast (Lair:3)
  3 black bears (Lair:8)
  2 centaurs (D:15)
  An orc warrior (Orc:4)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:6)
  A warg zombie (Orc:4)
  A scorpion (D:6)
  3 killer bees
  A wight (D:9)
  A quasit (Orc:4)
  2 hounds
  A crimson imp (D:14)
  2 human zombies (D:14)
  3 orc priests
  7 orc wizards
  A sheep (D:14)
  An adder (D:6)
  2 gnolls (D:6)
  A shadow imp (Orc:4)
  29 orcs
  2 goblins
  A hobgoblin (D:10)
  A giant gecko (D:10)
  A goblin zombie (Orc:4)
  A jackal (D:10)
  3 orc zombies (Orc:4)
  A quokka (D:3)
116 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A two-headed ogre (D:15)
  A slime creature (D:12)
  5 humans (D:14)
  3 ogres
  3 vampire mosquitoes (D:14)
  2 deep elf fighters (D:14)
  A centaur (D:15)
  A giant frog (D:13)
  2 killer bees (D:14)
  A wight (D:13)
  A crimson imp (D:12)
  A hound (D:13)
  2 orc wizards
  3 human zombies (D:14)
  2 killer bee zombies (D:14)
  A sheep (D:14)
  A hound zombie (D:5)
  A white imp (Orc:4)
  3 orcs (D:5)
  A goblin (D:5)
  A giant spore (D:9)
  7 fungi
44 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 991 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Todi, the Spriggan Enchanter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 9/9 MP: 4/4
   596 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 13/13 MP: 7/7
  1638 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Ensorcelled Hibernation
  2031 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/16 MP: 11/11
  2119 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Confuse
  2405 | D:2      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  2409 | D:2      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  2409 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  2409 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/21 MP: 14/14
  3177 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 21/24 MP: 8/18
  4263 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4268 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4302 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Vehumet
  4323 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  4591 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  4635 | D:4      | Killed Edmund
  4635 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth
  4635 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/28 MP: 14/20
  4992 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  5306 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  5306 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth
  5306 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  5447 | D:4      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  5488 | D:4      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  5488 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5488 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes
  5488 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 13/32 MP: 15/23
  5498 | D:4      | Acquired Vehumet's first power
  5498 | D:4      | Offered knowledge of Shock by Vehumet.
  5689 | D:4      | Learned a level 4 spell: Enslavement
  5983 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6586 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  6613 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  6613 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth
  6613 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 21/36 MP: 23/25
  6751 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth
  6843 | D:5      | Offered knowledge of Flame Tongue by Vehumet.
  6847 | D:5      | Learned a level 1 spell: Flame Tongue
  8260 | D:6      | Noticed Grinder
  8270 | D:6      | Killed Grinder
  8276 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
  8618 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 21/39 MP: 14/28
  8648 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  9692 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
  9906 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  9930 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
  9930 | D:7      | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth
 10172 | D:7      | Got a faintly glowing dagger
 10173 | D:7      | Identified the +9 dagger "Eluggaighu" {holy, MR+} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 10660 | D:7      | Noticed Sigmund
 10675 | D:7      | Killed Sigmund
 10975 | D:7      | Offered knowledge of Throw Frost by Vehumet.
 10987 | D:7      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Frost
 11434 | D:8      | Acquired Vehumet's second power
 11598 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 24/44 MP: 2/30
 11601 | D:8      | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth
 11778 | D:8      | Noticed Psyche
 11785 | D:8      | Killed Psyche
 12036 | D:8      | Noticed Grum
 12046 | D:8      | Killed Grum
 12059 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 12621 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12628 | D:8      | Got a fine war axe
 12629 | D:8      | Identified the +7 war axe "Friyrikk" {venom, Dex+3} (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
 12643 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12644 | Lair:1   | Offered knowledge of Inner Flame by Vehumet.
 12649 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 3 spell: Inner Flame
 12754 | Lair:1   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 12940 | Lair:1   | Noticed a black mamba
 12950 | Lair:1   | Killed a black mamba
 12950 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 13 in Stealth
 14010 | Lair:2   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 14011 | Lair:2   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 14011 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 47/47 MP: 31/32
 14024 | Lair:2   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 14025 | Lair:2   | Got a heavily runed graven amulet
 14027 | Lair:2   | Identified the amulet of Chiemeeplu {Clar rF++ Int+1 Stlth++} (You acquired it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14231 | Lair:2   | Acquired Vehumet's third power
 14620 | Lair:2   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 14646 | Lair:2   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 14646 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 14 in Stealth
 14676 | Lair:2   | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
 14676 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 14823 | Lair:3   | Offered knowledge of Lee's Rapid Deconstruction by Vehumet.
 14830 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 5 spell: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
 15263 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 15682 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 15817 | Lair:3   | Noticed Fannar
 15887 | Lair:3   | Killed Fannar
 15887 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 51/51 MP: 6/35
 16579 | Lair:4   | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 17225 | Lair:5   | Offered knowledge of Olgreb's Toxic Radiance by Vehumet.
 17248 | Lair:5   | Got a crude ruby amulet
 17250 | Lair:5   | Identified the amulet "Thefog" {rMut Dex+1 Int+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17391 | Lair:5   | Noticed Erica
 17399 | Lair:5   | Killed Erica
 17721 | Lair:5   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 17869 | Lair:5   | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight
 18294 | Lair:6   | Identified a +4 rod of destruction (11/11) (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 18536 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 18827 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 16 in Stealth
 19033 | Lair:7   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 19043 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 19787 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 19788 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
 19860 | Lair:7   | v
 20276 | Lair:7   | HP: 2/51 [polar bear (1)]
 20587 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20588 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20836 | Lair:7   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 20869 | Lair:7   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 20903 | Lair:7   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 20926 | Lair:7   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 20926 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 55/55 MP: 34/36
 21059 | Lair:7   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 21232 | Lair:7   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 21447 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 21534 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 17 in Stealth
 21534 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Hexes
 23716 | Lair:8   | Offered knowledge of Ignite Poison by Vehumet.
 23791 | Lair:8   | HP: 1/55 [young spriggan druid/angry trees (14)]
 24133 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 18 in Stealth
 24400 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
 24885 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 24885 | Slime:1  | Noticed an acid blob
 24987 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 25867 | D:9      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 26332 | D:9      | Reached XP level 14. HP: 52/59 MP: 31/38
 26476 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 26750 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 27268 | D:10     | Found Paept's Gadget Emporium.
 27835 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 28023 | Orc:1    | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Magma by Vehumet.
 29396 | Orc:3    | Noticed Josephine
 29437 | Orc:3    | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Draining by Vehumet.
 29452 | Orc:3    | Killed Josephine
 29588 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 30218 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 30253 | Orc:4    | Found Dyhywi's Antique Armour Boutique.
 30267 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
 31075 | Orc:4    | Learned a level 5 spell: Metabolic Englaciation
 31121 | Orc:4    | Bought a warped robe for 125 gold pieces
 31132 | Orc:4    | Identified the cursed -1 robe of Resilience {Str+1 Int+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 31488 | Orc:4    | Found Ligyliam's Book Emporium.
 31500 | Orc:4    | Bought a book of Hinderance for 280 gold pieces
 31501 | Orc:4    | Upgraded the game from 0.15.2-955-g3d6fa58 to 0.15.2-android
 31844 | Orc:4    | Found Cahuriaf's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 31864 | Orc:4    | Noticed an orc warlord
 31922 | Orc:4    | Killed an orc warlord
 32144 | Orc:4    | Found Psiafac's General Store.
 32261 | Orc:4    | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [a neqoxec]
 32510 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 32625 | Orc:4    | Offered knowledge of Delayed Fireball by Vehumet.
 32625 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 19 in Stealth
 33917 | D:11     | Got an ancient pewter ring
 33960 | D:11     | Identified the ring of Ruydo {+/*Tele Dex+3} (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 34460 | D:12     | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 35182 | D:12     | Upgraded the game from 0.15.2-android to 0.16.1-android
 37582 | D:14     | Found Ucaipt's Gadget Shoppe.
 37740 | D:14     | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 37783 | D:14     | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 37867 | D:14     | Noticed Urug
 37875 | D:14     | Killed Urug
 37938 | D:14     | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
 38677 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 38914 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 39165 | D:14     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 34/63 MP: 25/39
 39471 | D:15     | Noticed Nergalle
 39478 | D:15     | Killed Nergalle
 39496 | D:15     | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Cold by Vehumet.
 39624 | D:15     | Noticed Rupert
 39627 | D:15     | Killed Rupert
 39790 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 40296 | D:15     | Upgraded the game from 0.16.1-android to 0.16.1


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |   102 |   220 |   311 |   395 |  1221 ||  2249
       Short sword       |       |       |    35 |       |       ||    35
       Rod               |       |       |       |     6 |       ||     6
 Cast: Corona            |    12 |     2 |       |       |       ||    14
       Ensorcelled Hiber |     2 |     7 |    14 |    34 |    55 ||   112
       Confuse           |       |    35 |    60 |    65 |   144 ||   304
       Flame Tongue      |       |       |    16 |       |       ||    16
       Enslavement       |       |       |    10 |    16 |   149 ||   175
       Throw Frost       |       |       |     4 |     3 |    14 ||    21
       Inner Flame       |       |       |       |     6 |    34 ||    40
       Lee's Rapid Decon |       |       |       |     4 |     1 ||     5
       Flight            |       |       |       |     1 |     3 ||     4
       Metabolic Englaci |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
Evoke: Wand              |       |     3 |    15 |    15 |     8 ||    41
       Rod               |       |       |       |     8 |     2 ||    10
       tome              |       |       |       |     4 |     5 ||     9
       Disc of storms    |       |       |       |     1 |     6 ||     7
       Crystal ball of e |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
  Use: Scroll            |       |     1 |     9 |     8 |    11 ||    29
       Potion            |       |       |     3 |     5 |    13 ||    21
 Stab: Sleeping          |     7 |     8 |    25 |    75 |   131 ||   246
       Confused          |       |    15 |    36 |    32 |    80 ||   163
       Distracted        |       |       |     2 |     5 |    11 ||    18
       Fleeing           |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Eat: Bread ration      |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |     2 ||     5
       Pizza             |       |       |     2 |       |     4 ||     6
       Fruit             |       |       |       |     6 |     5 ||    11

Snake Sneak

Posts: 114

Joined: Wednesday, 16th March 2011, 11:05

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 12:08

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Okay first off, you probably want to ditch that dagger. A dagger, even a +9 one, isn't a great weapon at this point, and holy brand is basically the same as no brand before extended. Get a quick blade (or a cutlass if you don't have one) and enchant it up.

Going TSO would be pretty silly as he's not going to do anything except ruin your stealth and most of your tactics. I think it's kind of weird that you went Vehumet but didn't train conjuration at all. Really, many other gods would be better for your character, but if you convert now you'll have to deal with Vehumet wrath which I heard is pretty terrible. If you want to play a blaster then you could memorize Bolt of Cold and try to get it castable, but your first priority should be training fighting up. Turn off all other skills and train only fighting. Never neglect training fighting for so long again.

Among the spellbooks you have available, I would learn Blink and Apportation. Petrify is also nice becasue you can stab petrifying monsters and it synerges pretty well with LRD.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 16

Joined: Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 10:34

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 12:30

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Well, I think its better to start from the beginning ... what god do you prefer for SpEn?
I am too confused. How about Okawaru?
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 422

Joined: Wednesday, 13th August 2014, 08:34

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 12:52

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Go to Gozag.

bel

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2184

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 13:00

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

A lot of gods are fine for SpEn. You just have to adapt to what they offer. Vehumet is ok. If you want to use Vehumet, you should learn some conjuration spells which he offers periodically. I notice that you have reached max piety and haven't trained any conjurations (skill). The idea for playing with Vehumet is to use hexes on most monsters and conjurations against monster which resist hexes.

Personally I like Kiku, Nemelex or Ashenzari. But worshipping a god is beside the point if you don't use your god.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 16

Joined: Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 10:34

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 13:08

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Gozag sounds good. How about skills? When should I stop training for example spellcasting?

I have noticed msgs from Vehumet but those spells seemed to be low for me. So I didnt took manyof them.

bel

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2184

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 13:36

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Regarding skilling, you need to train much more fighting, after (initially) concentrating on your starting skills. A rough rule of thumb is to have fighting at least half or two-thirds of your XL. It improves your HP.

Also, did you find no buckler? Get one and use it, and train shields till about 7 or so to remove the penalty. Don't be misled by spriggans' low aptitudes for these skills. They are very important for survivability (after the initial phase of the game).

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1601

Joined: Sunday, 14th July 2013, 16:36

Post Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 18:30

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Scalding Steam wrote:Okay first off, you probably want to ditch that dagger. A dagger, even a +9 one, isn't a great weapon at this point, and holy brand is basically the same as no brand before extended. Get a quick blade (or a cutlass if you don't have one) and enchant it up.

A quick blade is unlikely to be available. And a +9 dagger is pretty much always going to be better than a +6 cutlass for normal combat and requires less skill to reach min-delay. And even if you could find a +9 cutlass and another 3 points of short blade skill, that is still probably a downgrade for a fast character who is confuse-stabbing things and branching into conjurations to blast anything else dangerous that can't be hexed.

A much better choice for upgrading this character's ability to defeat enemies in honorable melee combat would be to try out all the runed daggers in Orc until it finds the dagger of electrocution with the most enchantment on it already, and enchant that up.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 114

Joined: Wednesday, 16th March 2011, 11:05

Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 05:35

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Taracair wrote:Gozag sounds good. How about skills? When should I stop training for example spellcasting?

I have noticed msgs from Vehumet but those spells seemed to be low for me. So I didnt took manyof them.

I think Patashu's guide covered everything you need to know about skilling.
(9:29:48 AM) Patashu: Ok, now let's talk about skilling

(9:30:21 AM) Patashu: 1) Here is how you skill in Crawl. You raise your killdudes skill until your killdudes options are online. Then you train the skills that help you not die to dudes. If in the future you're having trouble killing dudes again, swap back to killdudes skills.
(9:31:42 AM) Patashu: 2) Melee weapons have a concept called 'min delay'. Examine the weapon and look at what its delay is - every 2 skill for that weapon, it will drop by 0.1, until it reaches 0.7 (if it is 1.4 or heavier) or half the original rounded down (if it is 1.3 or lighter, e.g. a 1.0 weapon reaches 0.5 after 10 skill, and a 2.0 weapon reaches 0.7 after 26 skill)
(9:32:15 AM) Patashu: The closer you are to getting a weapon to min delay, the more rapidly training it and using it gets better - until you reach min delay, after which the benefits of further training that weapon skill are a lot more marginal, so unless you can find a heavier weapon to swap to, you should train notdietodudesskills now
(9:32:52 AM) Patashu: (Also, the advantage of a heavy weapon's higher base damage isn't just a constant addition of damage - the base damage is multiplied by your skills, whereas enchantment and slaying damage is just added on unmultiplied, so heavier weapons will hit a lot harder than the numbers indicate, if you can get them to respectable minimum delay
(9:35:33 AM) Patashu: Also, random comment, the skill 'evocations' improves elemental evokables (that go in the misc category of your inventory), rods and wands by a LOT, but ofc if you're training evocations that's exp not going anywhere else, for something that can run out, so it's an opportunity cost thing, but a bit of evo makes wands a lot better

Hurkyl wrote:
Scalding Steam wrote:Okay first off, you probably want to ditch that dagger. A dagger, even a +9 one, isn't a great weapon at this point, and holy brand is basically the same as no brand before extended. Get a quick blade (or a cutlass if you don't have one) and enchant it up.

A quick blade is unlikely to be available. And a +9 dagger is pretty much always going to be better than a +6 cutlass for normal combat and requires less skill to reach min-delay. And even if you could find a +9 cutlass and another 3 points of short blade skill, that is still probably a downgrade for a fast character who is confuse-stabbing things and branching into conjurations to blast anything else dangerous that can't be hexed.

A +6 unbranded cutlass begins to outdamage that +9 dagger at 14 skill. Since OP already has 11 skill it won't take very long to get there - much easier than getting that Bolt of Cold online at least. And unlike the dagger, a cutlass can have a relevant brand (i.e. not holy).

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1601

Joined: Sunday, 14th July 2013, 16:36

Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 06:23

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

You still have to find (or make) a branded cutlass if you want one; they aren't so common that you can expect to find one that is going to be better than the several daggers of electrocution you will probably find in Orc. And I believe this character still has a while to go before the bonus stabbing damage of cutlass would match the dagger for those confuse stabs. (although I'm not really sure when that happens)

Yes, getting a cutlass to min delay on a cutlass is a lot cheaper than bolt of cold. But that's irrelevant. Bolt of Cold lets you safely annihilate things that need annihilating at a safe distance. A better melee weapon lets you squeeze a little bit of extra damage out of honorable melee combat.

A little extra damage in honorable melee combat is pretty much irrelevant; it takes a lot more to make a fragile character doing low damage a viable melee combatant than to increase the damage a little bit.

(really, the thing for this character to do for a quick boost is to get summon mana viper)

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1601

Joined: Sunday, 14th July 2013, 16:36

Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 07:10

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Taracair wrote:I play mainly SpEn. Now I came to the diff point. I think staying with Vehument is silly for the longer time, but I really like MP regen when killing things.
What should I do next? Should I convert to TSO? I was thinking about Nemelex Xobeh also, but I don't like gambling.

If you mean this character, you should stick with Vehumet. Changing gods is rarely a good idea, due to the punishments they'll give you. (leaving TSO/Zin/Ely isn't so bad: you just have to deal with no longer having their powers. Unless you switch to an evil god, then they'll punish you)

If you mean for future games, TSO is a bad choice, since he is anti-stabbing. Vehumet is fine if you work out a way to take advantage of Conjurations; don't forget that Dazzling Spray exists from your starter book! Imagine a character that plays the first half of the game killing things with stealth and hexes, but aims to be lobbing high-powered blasting spells in the second half of the game at things that don't fall easily to hexes.

I think such a transition is tough. In my opinion, it takes a lot of investment to train up enough blasting power for it to actually be worthwhile blasting things rather than, for example, kiting them while you repeatedly try to Confuse them. Especially so for a Spriggan who has poor aptitudes for most blasting magic. I haven't played much with the new conjurations (e.g. Gell's Gravitas) that Spriggans have better aptitudes for, so I don't know how much that changes things.

I, personally, liked Sif, partly because I could experiment with lots of magic over many games, and partly I could pick and choose powerful spells to solve problems I had using Hexes. Some conjurations were on this list, but I didn't have to specialize to the point I could rely on them working. (my choices were Freezing Cloud, Sticky Flame, and Conjure Flame. You might choose otherwise)

I also like Dithmenos, pushing the stealth angle to the extreme as well as getting boosts to conjuration damage. But as others said, you can do well with most gods. Find one that supports the way you like to play. Or are fun in of themselves.

Please check my skills also. I think training Fighting and Charms would be useful.

In my opinion, the main thing for a Spriggan to worry about once you've cleared lair is to maximize your skills at not dying. Hex/stealth-enabled stabbing works really well against most things for a long time, so you have plenty of time to focus on your physical defenses and/or train other skills for cheating death before you need to work on new or improved ways to kill things.

This means yes, Fighting is an excellent choice for training. In your place, I would try out half of the Book of Spatial Translocations, so as to get a feel for them. Being really fast helps avoid a lot of deaths, but the book gives you some extra options when you can't run (e.g. get cornered). I'm personally not sure how I feel about Shroud of Golubria.

And on that note, if you really haven't found a buckler yet, I would explore Elf until you find one or dangerous stuff bars your path (and then leave Elf). This is probably a little dangerous -- especially since you don't yet know what's dangerous -- but you'll have to gain the playing experience sometime! Spriggans are actually strong against most of the danger, with their good MR, high dodging, and fast speed for escapes. (unfortunately, they are particularly weak against Massive Damage, especially if you don't train Fighting, so you need to take care!)

That aside, training summoning until Summon Mana Viper can be reliably cast is probably a very good idea. (It might even be reliable now)

What spells are woth considering in the late game?

Each person has their favorites, and there are a variety of answers. e.g. train up better melee, become a blaster mage, learn a few good summons, dabble in necromancy, focus on necromancy, double down on hexes.... However, any advice on this really can't be appreciated until you play the late game a bunch of times, and learn what things cause you trouble, and thus so that you need to develop ways to deal with them. (also, the troubles of a SpEn are radically different from most characters, so advice people give from experience might not be very relevant at all)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 415

Joined: Monday, 8th December 2014, 10:31

Location: Sweedledome

Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 11:30

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

When I looked at this I thought 'Vehumet...what were you thinking?!'. Then I realised that could actually work really well if you focus on it, but unfortunately you didnt realise how to leverage it as Hurkyl points out. I do get that you were using him for mana on kill to fuel hexes. I do Makhleb the same way for hp without ever using destruction/summon.

When it comes to what to do for this character, well stab stab stab. If you cant hex it, avoid it for now. Dropping Vehumet is not going to be your friend. Thats a god that likes to slap you with big noisy damage spikes during wrath, which a SpEn can not afford at any level. Find a nice conjuration of level 5 or more to work for. bolt of foo, iron shot is a good candidate too (and stone arrow to a lesser degree). You might suck at conjurations but some of your elemental skills are not as poor and you already have fair spellcasting/int, getting something to fire is trivial for you at this point. Avoid poison magic. While its great in general, it loses traction around the same point as hexes.

edit: the dagger is a fine weapon. the brand does suck but +9 dagger is not awful. would still go look for an elec dagger though. Maybe a rapier from Elf. Also, yep, buckler.
Online Wins: MiFi, GrFi, TrMo, HOGl, SpEn, {DEWz, DDNe}, {OgBe, CeHu}, FoFi, VSFi, MfGl, {HaGl, VpEn, HESk}, KoAs, DsFi, TeMo

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 16

Joined: Sunday, 3rd May 2015, 10:34

Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 13:29

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Well guys, thank you very much for all your help and feedback. I really appreciate it. I see that you're all asking "Why did you... do this, or do that?" Maybe it's silly, but I was discovering the game without ANY tutorials, guides (oh, maybe once, but it was outdated anyway and didn't help me at all :D), and so on. Even really tough monsters, with great protection from hexes, were dying by sending one enslaved monster filled with inner flame <3 Vehument was only for MP. So I didn't know about no shield penalty at 7lv or minimum delay cap with weapons. My playstyle was really efficient till I came to diff point when I couldnt clear Elves (some of them have only 3% successs rate for my hexes and are really nasty).

And then I came to The Tavern...

I won't abandon that SpEn^Vehument, I have learnt many things from you guys, I will use him to test new possibilites, or rush through branches to see what I will have to deal with in future.

I have started new SpEn with Nemelex Xobeh because I thought "Evocations are wands also". So wands and cards should fill the gap where hexes cannot work. What do you think?

According to skills of SpEn^Nemelex - I always use manual training - is that fine? I will set fighting*, short blades, dodging, spellcasting*, hexes*, evocations and stealth. I will keep it till I clear dungeon, lair and orcs, because they were always really easy for me, and my goal is to achieve:
- fighting - 8(?)
- short blades 10lv - and here I would stop and save EXP for different skills, daggers are enough for me
- dodging - 10lv
- spellcasting - 14lv
- hexes - 9lv
- evocations - 12lv
- stealth - approx 18

In the meantime I will find any decent shield, train it to 7lv and then change training a bit.
After achieving those skills I think I will be experienced enough to fight other branches with hexes and wands (maybe rods also).

bel

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Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 13:59

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Those look fine to me. I would train Hexes a bit higher, perhaps 11 or 12 or even more if you want, since hexes depend on spellpower to succeed reliably.

Nemelex is good to handle monsters which resist hexes. He gifts lots of decks of cards which you can use for various effects. You can use in-game help to see what each card does. Or you can see the wiki here: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Cards
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 4th May 2015, 15:01

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Taracair wrote:Well, I think its better to start from the beginning ... what god do you prefer for SpEn?

A good way to think about gods is as a set of predictable bonuses for your character in an unpredictable dungeon. A SpEn is going to spend a lot of time stabbing things that are sleeping or confused or blind. But you can't stab everything, so you'll want a backup plan.

So, Vehumet is useful in that you can train good direct damage spells to kill things at range (since you're a spriggan, you can be at range a lot) and you can use the wizardry boost to get your spells online earlier and invest more in spellcasting to keep hunger from being such a problem, which it actually can be for spriggans. A Spriggan with Stone Arrow or Poison Arrow or Freezing Cloud is very good at killing dudes.

Kiku would be great in that you get a bunch of necro magic to deal with unstabbables -- things like undead allies and agony. And you also get to pain brand your little short blade, which (when combined with the necro skill you're training) means you can do melee damage like a boss to most of the monsters in the game, even if you can't stab them.

Makhleb is good in that you get some great summons for pretty cheap, and powerful-if-unpredictable ranged attacks, both of which help you deal with nasties you can't stab.

Ash would be useful because you essentially get to be better at *everything,* so you get extra EV, extra magic skill, extra combat skill, and can use whatever else you find in the dungeon more effectively. Also, detect / scrying can let you straight-up skip fighting lots of dudes. Beating Rupert? Axe you can't use. Never fighting Rupert? Priceless.

Fedhas would be excellent because you get some very solid allies you can shoot through, so once you pick up some ranged combat option, you need to spend even fewer turns in melee range with nasties.

Lugonu gives you a distortion weapon (which is very strong, especially on something fast like a dagger), the ability to banish things you don't want to fight, Corrupt (which makes it way easier to get treasure and runes out of challenging vaults), and self-banishment, which is essentially "actually, what if I don't die now?" Plus, getting that abyssal rune is easier.

On the other side, someone like Dith, who seems like The Stabber God, is not super awesome for stabbers. You can't ever get enough stealth to make it so no one ever wakes up, so even with umbra and shadow step, you'll still need to deal with things that aren't stabbable. Shadow mimic, similarly, makes your melee and conjurations and ranged more effective, but doesn't help you get those things up to snuff. Shadow Form is good at helping you steal runes, but a SpEn is already likely to be pretty good at that. (Not that Dith would be "worse than no god" or anything, but, y'know, not great.)

TSO would be pretty bad. You lose stealth and stabbing and poisoning, which are suuuper useful for a SpEn, and eventually get Angels. Angels are great, but not nearly worth losing your early game bread-and-butter for.
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 13:41

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Guys, how about STR/INT/DEX? I am putting all into INT, because stabbing =/= STR and because I have enough Evasion. What do you think, is that a good idea?
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:13

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

For this character, int isn't a bad choice. It'll improve your spell power and reduce spell hunger.

You have Vehumet, so I'd train some attack magic because you're going to have it available. A bolt spell or a cloud spell would be great for killing dudes you don't get to stab.
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:25

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

njvack wrote:For this character, int isn't a bad choice. It'll improve your spell power and reduce spell hunger.

You have Vehumet, so I'd train some attack magic because you're going to have it available. A bolt spell or a cloud spell would be great for killing dudes you don't get to stab.

You might not notice, but I'm playing SpEn^Nemelex right now. And wands are really powerfull with 11 lv Evocations.
I am pleased with Nemelex, he gives cards faster than I use them. I can easily save many legendary deck, stack them as I wish, and then use even 4 cards at the same time destroying a tough monsters.
I have also not noticed earlier, that Dazzling Spray is really powerfull spell.
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:41

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Ah, I missed that. So yeah, don't train conj ;-)

Dazzling Spray is indeed very good.
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:48

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Why is dazzling worth using? Every time I try to use it, it always seems lackluster damage wise. The blindness was ok, but confusion almost always seemed more reliable in the long run. Am I just doing it wrong?

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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:56

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Dazzling spray is decent against packs. You can hit many yaks at the same time, and so on. Also, it checks HD rather than MR.

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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 14:57

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Hmm. What would has high MR and low HD late game? Or is it generally more for the mid game?

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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 15:01

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

I amnesia it after corona in later game.
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 15:52

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

ajon wrote:Why is dazzling worth using? Every time I try to use it, it always seems lackluster damage wise. The blindness was ok, but confusion almost always seemed more reliable in the long run. Am I just doing it wrong?

Blindness is really what it's for, either to debuff opponents' damage output or to set up stabs (which is probably what the OP is doing with it).
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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 20:02

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

NOTE: Since this is mostly about a specific character, I moved it to YAVP/CIP thread. (If you are seeking advice for specific character with chardump, it goes here.)

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Post Wednesday, 6th May 2015, 23:21

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

On the Dazzling Spray debate (I agree, its awesome). One of its primary uses for me is blinding stuff with see invisible. When I cast invis as an Enchanter 90% of the monsters lose sight of me, but invariably the nastiest ones are the ones that dont. Good news is most of those have eyes.

Where its better than confuse: vs a pack, vs popcorn (since it damages like a mini-IMB), vs high MR. It reaps in the Orc Mines, not just blinding but killing the majority of the opponents by the time you get there. (much like its big brother, IMB is probably my favorite orc spell.) Its also particulrly useful when approaching a squad of yaktaurs or similar so you dont get pincushioned.
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Post Thursday, 7th May 2015, 08:42

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

There's also something like Mass Confusion, which is even better than Dazzling Spray. Success rate is much more higher, but the duration is short. I was doing it on Elves with my previous SpEn, even those nasty with 3% success rate.

Well my char has cleared Lair and Orcs, now it's time to clear Dungeon, then I'll go deep into Swamps and then Elves. I hope I won't die.
Again - Nemelex Xobeh was really great choice. I can't get rid of his cards. I can easily smash tough monster with cards, wands, or lamps of fire :)

Guys there's one question - why I cannot forget spells learnt from the beginning of the game? Too much time has passed and my SpEn has remembered them too good? :)

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Post Thursday, 7th May 2015, 10:42

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

I always considered mass confusion more of an escape option. It usually won't hit everything in a group and it runs out too fast to reliably try and stab those it has snared.

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Post Thursday, 7th May 2015, 13:53

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Guys, my skills are:

- fighting 9.0
- short blades 10.0 - I've stopped training this - I have also manual of Short Blades
- dodging 13.4
- shields 3.9
- spellcasting 15.3
- hexes 12.9
- evocations 12.8
- stealth 18.1

What would you prefer to train? Should I focus on Hexes/Evo/Stealth more?

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Post Thursday, 7th May 2015, 14:00

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Hexes, its what brings your warding success % up on the majority of your spells. I'd be tempted to burn that manual straight away too, will improve your stabbing and give you enough skill to use something like a rapier if you find a decent one.

Assuming you have a buckler, shields needs to go to 9 to train that off (5 for most, but spriggan is tiny), at the moment its slightly impacting your attack speed and possibly dodge/spellcasting. Then more fighting and dodge always, Spriggans need all the HP and avoidance they can get really.
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Post Thursday, 7th May 2015, 14:48

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

You can forget spells you started the game with; use a scroll of amnesia. (You can also, I think, do it by destroying the book the spell came in, but I have literally never done that; there is plenty of amnesia in the game.)
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Post Sunday, 10th May 2015, 07:27

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Well I had many problems in Shoals and died there. I wonder if wands and Nemelex are good alternative for Hex-resistant monsters. When I meet a tough one, with 2% success rate of confusion I can't really kill it with wands/cards. I mean I can, but it costs me all my saved potions/scrolls and so on...
I had also very low EQ, no artefact items, poor dagger (+1 of venom).

Well, let's try again. Same with SpEn^Nemelex.

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Post Sunday, 10th May 2015, 09:46

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

What is "EQ"?

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Post Sunday, 10th May 2015, 11:54

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Equipment Quotient? Might be a term from another roguelike or something intending to sum up gear power. Unless he actually meant EV, but V/Q is not a common typo.

+1 dagger of venom, yeah, definately underpowered by there. Its a fabulous find in the early dungeon, but needs enchant scrolls to stand any chance in the longer run. (its also a weapon i'd prefer to replace than enchant, either for a better brand (elec/pain) or a better base (rapier))
Wands/cards are a fair backup for the unhexable, but if you are running into so many such enemies that the supplies you have wont do the job then its probably time to go somewhere else. If im that far in and my dagger sucks i'll usually make a break for longblades (assuming they dont all suck too). Even on stabbers, you retain your shortblade skill anyway and can switch freely depending whether the room is awake or not.

What was the other lair branch? Not sure I'd do Shoals first with many (if any) characters. Edge case might be Snake/Shoal as En where rPois is not available. (snake is probably the least hexable s-branch)

Last time I went through Shoals as an Enchanter I had Discord up, which often solves these problems. The 3% gits still resist it, but then get smeared by their frenzied former squad. Water Nymphs/Avatars/Aquamancers in particular are not good targets for Hexes. Invisibility can help, but the same guys pretty much are the SInv's, all are vulnerable to Dazzling.
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Post Tuesday, 12th May 2015, 16:24

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

EQ is just equipment. Sorry, I forgot there's no EQ term around. It's from another games.
And indeed, my whole EQ was really low.

Still trying to play with SpEn^Nemelex, I think I will stop soon if it won't go forward. I think without finding good items it's really hard to go on with every class, but especially with SpEn.
Would you recommend me some other class for playing DCSS? Not pure magic, not pure melee. Something interesting in your opinion. TBH I was playing only SpEn for the whole time :)
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Post Tuesday, 12th May 2015, 17:02

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

If you still want to play SpEn, take Kiku, pain brand a dagger (or quickblade if you've acquired one by the time you get the final power; don't wait if you haven't unless you already have a pain shortblade), use necro to back up your melee. Corpse delivery is cheap and skeles/zombies/simulacra are really strong.

Otherwise, a strong character with a pretty easy melee and conjuraton/support game is MfIE. Freeze stuff, grab a polearm and don't look back. Probably don't take Trog or Chei or Xom.
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Post Tuesday, 12th May 2015, 20:31

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Taracair wrote:Not pure magic, not pure melee.

All book backgrounds are fine. Unless you want a challenge game, no background plays 'pure magic'.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
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Post Saturday, 9th January 2016, 16:19

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

OK Guys, made another SpEn, but right now I'm planning to backup my hexes with translocation and bows or slingshots. What guys do you think about it? Can Spriggan use bows efficiently?
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Post Monday, 11th January 2016, 14:48

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Eh, spriggans' tiny size makes them lousy at ranged combat, imo. I tend to think SpEn has a lot better luck transitioning to conjurations or summoning in the midgame than melee or ranged combat, mostly on account of the fact that you'll already be somewhat invested in spellcasting and other cast-y skills.

Either way, I would go xbows or slings, since shortbows suck and that's all Sp gets.
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Post Monday, 11th January 2016, 19:04

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

My advice is that is you want to go for ranged use throwing. Throwing can deal tons of damage even with tiny size and you can save ammo by stabbing stuff. Also, blowguns. They are awesome. If you want to transition to ranged combat dith is awsome because shadow mimicry give a huge boost to ranged. The extra stealth lets you stab stuff to save ammo. Not as good for ammo as oka but the damage boost can be better than oka without even using any god actives.
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Post Monday, 11th January 2016, 20:17

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

WingedEspeon wrote:My advice is that is you want to go for ranged use throwing. Throwing can deal tons of damage even with tiny size and you can save ammo by stabbing stuff.

Spriggans get the shaft here too, since they can't use Javelins.
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Post Monday, 11th January 2016, 21:14

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Hurkyl wrote:Spriggans get the shaft here too, since they can't use Javelins.

That's true, but once your Throwing skill is high, even tomahawks do decent damage.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
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Post Tuesday, 12th January 2016, 02:26

Re: SpEn - need advice after cleaning dungeon

Hurkyl wrote:
WingedEspeon wrote:My advice is that is you want to go for ranged use throwing. Throwing can deal tons of damage even with tiny size and you can save ammo by stabbing stuff.

Spriggans get the shaft here too, since they can't use Javelins.

Throwing uses a variation on the UC damage formula; it just uses skill level+missile base damage instead of skill level+3. Even tomahawks deal more damage than felids/(gloveless) ghouls do with UC at equal skill and stat levels. Honestly the lack of penetration ammo and decreased ammo supply in general hurt a lot more than the loss of base damage.

Also, blowguns. They are good.
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