The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Wednesday, 20th April 2011, 20:53

The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread

How about a thread for asking simple questions that can be answered by yes/no or a single answer so we don't need to keep making new threads that only have 1-2 answers?

I'll start it off:

1. Do armour/shield penalties affect chances of success with invocations and evocations?
2. How is hunger cost calculated for evoking items like wands/rods, and does increasing evocations skill reduce it?
3. Can a kenku still fly if they are transmuted into another form, eg spider?
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Blades Runner

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Post Wednesday, 20th April 2011, 21:11

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Questions that are too small to need their own thread can probably be answered on the IRC

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Post Wednesday, 20th April 2011, 21:19

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

1.I'm pretty sure rods are affected by shields, but no other evocations are. And it's probably something like spell power is decreased, not success. Invocations are not affected by armour and shields.
2?
3?
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Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 20th April 2011, 22:04

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

They can also often be answered by the bots. For example...

Spell hunger:
Casting a spell lowers your nutrition by an amount varying with the spell's level: (1) 50, (2) 95, (3) 160, (4) 250, (5) 350, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 860, (9) 1000. This amount is lowered by the product of your Intelligence and Spellcasting. (For rods, your Evocation skill * 10, with a minimum of 5.)

And wands don't cause additional hunger.

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Post Wednesday, 20th April 2011, 22:19

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Jeremiah wrote:3. Can a kenku still fly if they are transmuted into another form, eg spider?

As far as I remember this works roughly intuitively, so that if your new form has a shape and size conducive to flight then it flies. So in other words, lichform, dragon form (not sure if you still get the special kenku bonus to flight) and blade hands allow flight and the other transmutations don't.

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Post Sunday, 24th April 2011, 19:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

As I get out of early game I feel like I've got a bunch of different skills that all need experience. Last game I was a high elf wizard with spellcasting at 14, conj and fire around 12. I'm sure those need to be leveled up, but I also want to level up fighting for hp, as well as dodging, stealth, armor, invocations for better mana channeling with sif, also level up translocations and other utility schools. How does one go about picking how to distribute their experience when there are many good skills?
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Post Sunday, 24th April 2011, 20:04

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Well, here's my ideas on skill training. May not be perfect, as there were some changes to xp distribution when you turn skills on/off in trunk.

Fighting: if you start without a level in it, train up level 1 as soon as reasonably possible. Leave it on all game, regardless of role. If you're a primary caster, train fighting for hp by meleing popcorn. If you're a mele fighter, don't worry, it'll do fine on it's own.

Primary mele weapon skill: train up until you hit minimum delay. Then turn it off the rest off the game. Maybe turn it back on in Zot, when you get more xp than you know what to do with. If you're a primary caster, you may be able to get away with turning it off immediately.

Secondary ranged weapon: train up to min delay, then off. Possibly delay and turn it off in the early game before, when you need the xp in other places. It's very easy to train ranged weapon skills, as they can be victory danced.

Throwing: turn it off immediately. Never get it, if possible. Unless you're relying on blowdarts, or throwing large rocks, it's a useless waste of xp. Worse, under Oka and Trog it nets you useless dart gifts.

Stealth: Unless you stink at it (heavy armor, horrible aptitudes), or are bound to TSO conduct, leave it on all game. Not being noticed is useful to all roles- even if it doesn't necessarily net you stabs, not being noticed can save your life many times over.

Evasion: if you're playing an evasion build, leave it on all game, except when you're training shields. Then turn it off until you get shields past the level where penalties disappear. If you're playing an AC build, probably turn it off right away.

Shields: If you're using a shield, keep the skill on all game. Be sure to victory dance to the point where the shield penalties stop (check the bots- varies with species size and shield type).

Armor: I've yet to play a good heavy armor character. Not really sure what to do with this one. If you get it, I'd leave it on. If you don't, don't worry about it.

Traps and doors: leave it on all game.

Spellcasting: If you're a caster, or mele hybrid, train this like crazy. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need elsewhere, victory dance all spare xp into spellcasting. It gives you more spell slots, cuts down on spell hunger, and increases spell power. Very important.

Spell schools: mostly, I leave them on and victory dance them till the associated spells are at excellent. After than you can safely turn them off- further training will only improve power, and eventually get you to perfect, but spellcasting does that too. If you do most your damage with spells though, you want to leave your damage dealing schools on. You want as much spell power as you can get.

Invocations: Depends on the build and God. Some gods don't even use it (Trog, Nemelex). Some Gods you want to train invocations just until skills are at excellent (Lucy). A few though you want to leave on forever, because their abilities get more and more powerful as invocs scale (TSO).

Evocations: leave it on all game, unless you really need to dump the xp elsewhere. Never hurts, and can be downright useful at times.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 03:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Laraso wrote:Questions that are too small to need their own thread can probably be answered on the IRC


But not everyone accesses the IRC.

Hence why one can use the IRC and/or the Forum.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 12:47

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:
mageykun wrote:Throwing: turn it off immediately. Never get it, if possible. Unless you're relying on blowdarts, or throwing large rocks, it's a useless waste of xp. Worse, under Oka and Trog it nets you useless dart gifts.

Throwing is just fine even if you're not using blowguns. Javelins are great throughout the game. Like you said, though, only train it with a gifting god if you're using blowguns.

I also wouldn't leave Dodging on all the time (in particular you might want extra experience for spellcasting skills in the early game).



The other problem with throwing is that javelins are pretty heavy, which means that steel javelins weigh a TON. It's probably only worth getting high levels of throwing if you are already putting most of your stat gain into str, otherwise you will only be able to carry 3-4 without being encumbered. Of course it helps if you can throw large rocks too.

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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 13:23

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

If you worship Vehumet but currently have no skill in either Conjurations or Summoning, how is it decided which books he will give you first? Are racial aptitudes taken into account or is it determined randomly?

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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 16:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Do certain spells train spellcasting faster? I've got a bunch of exp to put into spellcasting, but spamming magic dart spends exp very slowly.
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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 17:14

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Higher level spells victory dance faster. Use your highest level hungerless spells to train spellcasting- but pick ones of schools you don't mind training as well.

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Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 22:04

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

ogre of kiku 16 xl. More into melee so going to brand my weapon with pain. Wearing +4 troll armor, +4 flail of protection, shield of protection. Have GSC stashed. Questions:
1)after I brand weapon with pain can I enchant it with scrolls or it becomes some kind of randart?
2)I feel squishy already. With GSC i'm going to be a glass cannon. So, what is the best one-handed mace there is to brand it with pain?(if it's eveningstar what is second best?)
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Post Monday, 25th April 2011, 22:27

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

1) You can't convert a normal weapon to a randart. But after you enchant it to +5, it doesn't corrode. Sometimes, a custom made weapon is as good as if not better than a randart, especially if you get one of the rare brands from a God.

2) I use this table for making those kind of decisions. Look at handedness, base damage, speed and skill requirements and make your decision. An evening star has the highest base damage for a one handed mace. Demon whips are weaker (more so than shown in wiki, they're actually down to 11 base damage now), but they're faster and require less skill for min delay. Your call.
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Post Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 01:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I just meant weaker in terms of the base damage. Overall, I'd agree with you- I'd take a demon whip over an evening star.

Question of my own! I've heard tell of an amusing disco level showing up in Pan. I know the flashing colors are limited to ascii, but does the level even occur in tiles?

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Post Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 01:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mageykun wrote:Question of my own! I've heard tell of an amusing disco level showing up in Pan. I know the flashing colors are limited to ascii, but does the level even occur in tiles?


Yes. The level is easily recognizable because a massive vault of garish pastel blocks in all the colors of the rainbow cuts the area right in half. The pastel blocks are visible from the outside edges of the vault, and usually form an obvious series of suspicious dead ends around the perimeter. The vault doesn't flash in tiles, but it is memorably hideous.

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Post Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 02:45

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

what can you do to improve accuracy of spells? Sif muna just gave me a book with crystal spear and it's supposed to be powerful but inaccurate. Can you raise dexterity to improve the chance of hitting?

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Post Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 04:32

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XrBob wrote:what can you do to improve accuracy of spells? Sif muna just gave me a book with crystal spear and it's supposed to be powerful but inaccurate. Can you raise dexterity to improve the chance of hitting?


Spell accuracy improves with spell power. So pump intelligence, spellcasting skill, earth magic skill, conjurations skill, and wear relevant boosters if they aren't crowded out by something more important. You can also apply a malus to enemy evasion, such as with Corona or the halo granted by TSO worship.

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Post Tuesday, 26th April 2011, 18:44

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Is there a way to make my own warning/confirmation questions? The easy answer is just pay more attention, but sometimes I'm still caught off guard. Or maybe at least disable the repeat last action button when you get under a certain hp? I know, I know I was dumb last game, I was on lair:2 and there was a spiny frog, I did throw flame, and then just mashed ~ to repeatedly flame him till he died. I killed at least 3 spiny frogs before him like that just fine, but somehow he got close enough to kill me that time.

I've found that it's medium-high on dangerous that are actually most dangerous. There was a hydra on that level that I killed through careful kiting, blinking, and nuking. He sent up a red flag so I was careful, but then spiny frogs seemed easy, got careless, and I died ):

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Blades Runner

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Post Wednesday, 27th April 2011, 08:50

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

what does an exclamation mark after the value for an apt mean? e.g. "unarmed combat: 1!"
i see this sometimes in the dev pages, and i don't think people just want to be emphatic.
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Post Wednesday, 27th April 2011, 11:19

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XrBob wrote:Is there a way to make my own warning/confirmation questions? The easy answer is just pay more attention, but sometimes I'm still caught off guard. Or maybe at least disable the repeat last action button when you get under a certain hp? I know, I know I was dumb last game, I was on lair:2 and there was a spiny frog, I did throw flame, and then just mashed ~ to repeatedly flame him till he died. I killed at least 3 spiny frogs before him like that just fine, but somehow he got close enough to kill me that time.

I've found that it's medium-high on dangerous that are actually most dangerous. There was a hydra on that level that I killed through careful kiting, blinking, and nuking. He sent up a red flag so I was careful, but then spiny frogs seemed easy, got careless, and I died ):

I suggest you add this to your settings:
  Code:
force_more_message = LOW HITPOINT WARNING


absolutego wrote:what does an exclamation mark after the value for an apt mean? e.g. "unarmed combat: 1!"
i see this sometimes in the dev pages, and i don't think people just want to be emphatic.

It means this species has the best aptitude with this skill (can be equal best)
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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 28th April 2011, 01:56

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Is there a list of how many turns certain actions take? I came upon a 27-headed hydra and went starving from casting bolt of fire. I figured I'd eat a bread ration so I could use a spell to teleport away. After I finished eating, I found that he had plenty of time to eat me ):
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Post Thursday, 28th April 2011, 06:45

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

you had a snack in front of the learnean hydra? :D

put these two lines in your config file:
  Code:
show_game_turns = true
show_gold_turns = true


you get an extra line of data on the right hand menu with the total turn count and the cost for your last action.
new players might find somewhat intimidating, being numbery and all, but it should really come out of the box.
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Post Thursday, 28th April 2011, 14:05

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

absolutego wrote:you had a snack in front of the learnean hydra? :D

put these two lines in your config file:
  Code:
show_game_turns = true
show_gold_turns = true


you get an extra line of data on the right hand menu with the total turn count and the cost for your last action.
new players might find somewhat intimidating, being numbery and all, but it should really come out of the box.


This situation is precisely why this page on the dev wiki exists.

Please check it out and see that it gets the attention it actually deserves.
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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 05:21

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What spells cause draining of target xp akin to a Wand of Draining?

I feel like Pain and Vampiric Draining cause this because I killed two Death Yaks today and got less than 500 XP for each.
Nothing is noted about it in the descriptions or in the game wiki, though.
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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 05:48

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XuaXua wrote:What spells cause draining of target xp akin to a Wand of Draining?

Bolt of Draining (level 6 Conjuration/Necro).
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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 08:03

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XuaXua wrote:What spells cause draining of target xp akin to a Wand of Draining?

I feel like Pain and Vampiric Draining cause this because I killed two Death Yaks today and got less than 500 XP for each.
Nothing is noted about it in the descriptions or in the game wiki, though.


those two don't drain. i've noticed that too (from checking the experience pool after you kill a monster) and i assumed there were changes to the experience pool/victory dancing. check via 'E' before and after you kill the critter to make sure. either that or monsters vary wildly in hit dice.
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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 12:02

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

You automatically have a training event whenever you kill something with a trainable ability. The xp goes to whatever skill you killed it with. So the rest of the xp from those death yaks was instantly applied to necromancy or spellcasting, whether you wanted it applied there or not.
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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 12:23

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does the autotraining also take place when the death of the monster is delayed (i.e. if you're using poison or you're confusing the monster and it suicides)?

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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 19:34

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Doc Brown wrote:Does the autotraining also take place when the death of the monster is delayed (i.e. if you're using poison or you're confusing the monster and it suicides)?


Nope. If Crawl doesn't see a specific trainable ability as being responsible, it just dumps it all in your xp pool and lets you figure it out. Sticky Flame, various sources of poison, confusion damage, breath weapons, damaging racial mutations, etc. give you tighter control over where you put your xp, in addition to their other advantages.

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Post Friday, 29th April 2011, 20:03

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does the to-hit-malus from wearing too heavy armour also apply to ranged weapons? I don't think I've ever seen a message stating that, but it seems too good to be true.
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 02:14

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Do Nelelex's 'a' abilities train evocations? I ask because I've got a felid worshiping Her right now, and I'm not sure if I need to wield and 'v' decks to get some training in.
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 02:33

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mageykun wrote:Do Nelelex's 'a' abilities train evocations? I ask because I've got a felid worshiping Her right now, and I'm not sure if I need to wield and 'v' decks to get some training in.

I think the act of drawing the card trains evocations, whether or not it is done directly or through Nemelex action a, but I could be wrong
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 04:50

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Answered it myself via experimentation. Nemelex abilities do, mercifully, train evocations.
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 10:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

how far should one train the throwing skill for darts and javelins and the like? the bots have stuff on their effect on blowguns, but not on throwing itself. does the skill affect speed?
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 11:40

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

How does Trog like people to reach his altars that are surrounded by lava without using magic? Or does he only want kenkus as worshippers?
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 12:24

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

How does Trog like people to reach his altars that are surrounded by lava without using magic?

Gotta find a Ring of Levitation, then :)
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Post Saturday, 30th April 2011, 13:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

pratamawirya wrote:
How does Trog like people to reach his altars that are surrounded by lava without using magic?

Gotta find a Ring of Levitation, then :)

Or a potion. Or a scroll of blinking. Or a TC ring and a scroll of teleport.
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Post Monday, 2nd May 2011, 16:25

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Since moving up to 0.8 (tiles) I've noticed that on the skills screen there are sometimes a green '*' or a '+4' after the aptitude value. Anyone know what they mean?
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Post Monday, 2nd May 2011, 16:56

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

The +/-4 indicates that a skill is crosstrained or antitrained, and the ' * ' indicates which skill is responsible for the crosstraining or antitraining. For example, good skill in Short Blades* will give a +4 apt in Long Blades, and skill in Ice* magic will give a -4 apt in Fire magic.
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Post Monday, 2nd May 2011, 16:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

math4jedi wrote:Since moving up to 0.8 (tiles) I've noticed that on the skills screen there are sometimes a green '*' or a '+4' after the aptitude value. Anyone know what they mean?

This is crosstraining. A skill with a green +4 is crosstrained by the one marked with * and will train twice as fast (which is equivalent to a +4 to aptitude).
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Post Monday, 2nd May 2011, 20:13

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

will TSO bless my Demon Trident of Freezing? Or does it have to be unbranded?
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Post Monday, 2nd May 2011, 20:21

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mrbobbyg wrote:will TSO bless my Demon Trident of Freezing? Or does it have to be unbranded?

He will. You can easily answer that kind of question by experimenting in wizmode (I did).
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Post Tuesday, 3rd May 2011, 00:01

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

galehar wrote:
mrbobbyg wrote:will TSO bless my Demon Trident of Freezing? Or does it have to be unbranded?

He will. You can easily answer that kind of question by experimenting in wizmode (I did).


I should think about that more often. I can't help it, but wizmode is associated with CHEATING! as opposed to SCIENCE!

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Post Tuesday, 3rd May 2011, 13:23

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mrbobbyg wrote:
galehar wrote:He will. You can easily answer that kind of question by experimenting in wizmode (I did).


I should think about that more often. I can't help it, but wizmode is associated with CHEATING! as opposed to SCIENCE!

Nahh. Wizmode is rehearsal/studio mode -- you get multiple takes, you can call for additional supplies as needed, you can play with things that aren't in the script.

A real game is the live shot on location -- one chance, no takebacks, and you work with what you're given.

Put another way, athletes don't wait for game day to try out a new technique or scripted play that they don't know the efficacy of.

Now, playing in wizmode as if it were a real game...
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Post Tuesday, 3rd May 2011, 15:49

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mrbobbyg wrote:I can't help it, but wizmode is associated with CHEATING! as opposed to SCIENCE!

Dude, "FOR SCIENCE!" is exactly what goes through my head before I load up wizmode to try my latest crazy scheme. What happens if make deep water appear below something that cannot drown- but cannot swim or fly either? What happens if you apply another brand on top of TSO's unique holy weapons? What happens in dragon form if you cheat and teach it to a premature draconian? Can you use stasis to make porkulation permanent, thus unlocking super secret porcine ascensions? We must find out, for SCIENCE!
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