GaFi - Level 15 - in progress

[Willy Elektrix]

I've got a good character going. I've never gotten a rune before and I would like to get one so I am seeking some advice. I just cleared every level of the Lair and Orcish Mines. I'm wondering where I should go next. I don't know if I have the right resistances for the Shoals. Should I try to the Snake Pits instead?

While I'm here, here are some other questions I have:

What are some of the best weapons brands for me?
Should I be raising any other skills?
How high do I need my invocations/evocations to be if I use prayers/wands a lot?
Should I be focusing more on fighting/maces at the expense of armor/shields?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

Rulz the Bludgeoner (Gargoyle Fighter)             Turns: 31169, Time: 02:08:23

HP  98/98        AC 49     Str 27      XL: 15   Next: 21%
MP  24/24        EV  5     Int  9      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 2359        SH 29     Dex  9      Spells:  0 memorised, 14 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     w - +3,+2 whip (elec)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     x - +11 crystal plate armour of the Wild Haggis {Str+1}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve .     c - +1 shield
rPois  +         rCorr    .     b - +1 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         rRot     +     (no cloak)
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Warding  .     N - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  +         Stasis   .     p - amulet of the gourmand
MR     +....                    L - ring of protection from fire
                                C - ring of see invisible

@: quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, large and strong wings, life protection 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +11
a: Fly, Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are completely stuffed.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 24 of its levels.

You have collected 2516 gold pieces.
You have spent 157 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 q - a +3,+1 flail of freezing
 w - a +3,+2 whip of electrocution (weapon)
Armour
 b - a +1 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 c - a +1 shield (worn)
 x - the +11 crystal plate armour of the Wild Haggis (worn) {Str+1}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+1).
 N - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 k - a wand of flame {zapped: 11}
 l - a wand of enslavement
 z - a wand of paralysis
 A - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
 B - a wand of fire {zapped: 1}
 K - a wand of confusion {zapped: 1}
 R - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 X - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 d - 11 bread rations
 r - 12 meat rations
Scrolls
 i - a scroll of fear
 m - 3 scrolls of identify
 n - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 v - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 E - 2 scrolls of recharging
 Q - a scroll of fog
 S - a scroll of blinking
Jewellery
 h - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 p - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 C - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
 H - an uncursed ring of fire
 L - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
Potions
 e - 11 potions of curing
 s - a potion of agility
 u - a potion of restore abilities
 W - 4 potions of heal wounds
Miscellaneous
 G - a stone of tremors


   Skills:
 + Level 13.0 Fighting
 + Level 16.3 Maces & Flails
 + Level 11.5 Armour
 + Level 14.2 Shields
 + Level 5.9 Invocations
 + Level 5.2 Evocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (0/5) Lair:3
  Snake (0/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7     


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You are immune to rotting.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +11).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.

[Siegurt]

Typically after I clear the lair and orc, I go back and clear the dungeon down to the vaults entrance, then I go back and get the runes from the lair branches.

Which will be the easiest lair branches will depend on what kind of lair branches you have, I would say that Shoals will be slightly less annoying once you're permanantly flying, if not really specifically easier, and Snake is made easier with rPois, rElec, and rFire.

Both of Snake and Shoals are made easier by having some sort of ranged attack available, I personally feel Shoals is slightly harder than Snake (And that it has slightly better loot as well)

Ideally you'll get your shields skill to 15 and stop (you're almost there) and you have more mace skill than you really need for using a one-handed mace (Hopefully you'll upgrade that whip/flail to an eveningstar or demon whip soon, or failing those a morningstar, which should be very common) The base damage of a weapon is usually more important than brands or enchantments, although not by a huge margin. Generally training your weapon skill much past the point at which your swinging gets faster is less effective than training other skills, at least for a long while. (Specifically, every two points of a weapon skill reduces it's delay by .1, so if you look at a whip, it's delay is 1.1 and it's min delay is .5, so it takes 2*6= 12 skill to get a whip swinging as fast as it will go)

Usually it's slightly more effective to set goals for specific skills, and train up to those specfic goals and then switch your skill training, train one to two skills at a time.

[Blink]

That electric whip should serve you well until you find a demon whip or (unlikely) eveningstar. I'd take off the SInv ring since you already have that via your helmet. rN isn't great, but it beats double SInv.

I'd stop skilling mace and shields (soon) like Siegurt recommended above. Your DEX is lousy and you are wearing CPM. That having been said, if you are going spell-less, you should consider pumping Dodge later. Massive AC is good, but every so often, something nasty will get through. So having SH and EV is good.

I wouldn't bother with much more Evoc unless you find something better than that rock. I'd get Invoc up to the point where Finesse is running at about 8%.

Do you have Invisibility? Save it for Shoals. When you run into Ilsiuw or a pack of nasty high end merfolks, use it. They can't see inviso. In Snake, learn to dig a zigzag hideyhole. Disintegration is better than digging for that. Such a formation allows you to fight enemies one on one and eliminate their reach and ranged attacks.

Good luck!

[Willy Elektrix]

I just got the Serpentine Rune of Zot. I was gifted a mace with vampirism and a shield with reflection, which turned out to be very useful. I feel pretty good!

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll give the Shoals a try now.

I have another question. I am wielding an artifact mace called the Mace of Exoneration. It has VAMP, DEX+2, and SINV. However, when I tried to unwield it, I was prompted with a "Do you really want to do this?" message. Why is that?

[Patashu]

I just got the Serpentine Rune of Zot. I was gifted a mace with vampirism and a shield with reflection, which turned out to be very useful. I feel pretty good!

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll give the Shoals a try now.

I have another question. I am wielding an artifact mace called the Mace of Exoneration. It has VAMP, DEX+2, and SINV. However, when I tried to unwield it, I was prompted with a "Do you really want to do this?" message. Why is that?

Because wielding a vampiric weapon
1) requires you to be Full or higher
2) drops your hunger once when you wield it
It's prompting on unwielding because if you want to wield it again you have to pay the hunger cost.
ALso, vampirism is an amazing brand - but a regular mace has really bad damage, and vampirism requires you to actually be doing damage.

[Willy Elektrix]

It's prompting on unwielding because if you want to wield it again you have to pay the hunger cost.
ALso, vampirism is an amazing brand - but a regular mace has really bad damage, and vampirism requires you to actually be doing damage.

I see.

Thank you for advice, but I misspoke. It's actually a morningstar, not a mace. The damage is somewhat better.

[Blink]

Morningstars are reasonably good for an one-hander, assuming you have decent +'s on it. Keep it, and skill up to 16. That healing, plus your shield and CPM will help keep your runner alive.

[Willy Elektrix]

Miraculously, I cleared the Snake Pit and the Shoals with few problems. I've never been this far in the game before so I am little daunted. It seems like I should clear the Elven Halls to get items and experience, and then try to get the rune from the vault before heading downward into Zot.

Here's the questions I have:

At what point should I stop raising Evasion?
Are there any awesome evokable items I should be looking out for?
What should items should I be looking for to prepare myself for Zot?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

Rulz the Warrior (Gargoyle Fighter)                Turns: 50652, Time: 04:20:57

HP 130/130       AC 56     Str 28      XL: 19   Next: 56%
MP  29/29        EV  6     Int 10      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 2939        SH 33     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised, 18 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     g - +5,+9 morningstar of Exoneration {vamp, Dex+2 SInv}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     x - +11 crystal plate armour of the Wild Haggis {Str+1}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve .     T - +2 shield {reflect}
rPois  +         rCorr    .     b - +1 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         rRot     +     D - +0 cloak "Zieheat" {rC+}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Warding  .     N - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  +         Stasis   .     p - amulet of the gourmand
MR     +....                    L - ring of protection from fire
                                k - ring of protection from cold

@: flying, quick, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, large and strong wings, life protection 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +13
a: Stop Flying, Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are full.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 38 of its levels.

You have collected 3384 gold pieces.
You have spent 445 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - the +5,+9 morningstar of Exoneration (weapon) {vamp, Dex+2 SInv}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It inflicts no extra harm, but heals its wielder somewhat when it strikes a
   living foe.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It enhances your eyesight.
 w - a +4,+4 whip of electrocution
Armour
 b - a +1 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 x - the +11 crystal plate armour of the Wild Haggis (worn) {Str+1}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+1).
 D - the +0 cloak "Zieheat" (worn) {rC+}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
 I - a +2 shield of protection
 N - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 T - a +2 shield of reflection (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 m - a wand of draining {zapped: 9}
 t - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 1}
 z - a wand of paralysis (8)
 A - a wand of fireball {zapped: 3}
 B - a wand of fire {zapped: 1}
 F - a wand of fire (12)
 R - a wand of hasting {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 d - 12 bread rations
 r - 15 meat rations
Scrolls
 i - a scroll of silence
 n - a scroll of fear
 q - 5 scrolls of identify
 v - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 y - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 Q - 4 scrolls of fog
 S - 3 scrolls of blinking
 V - 5 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 h - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 k - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 p - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 C - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 K - the ring of Phorphe {Fire +Inv rN+ Int-1}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of fire]
   It affects your intelligence (-1).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 L - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
Potions
 a - 2 potions of berserk rage
 e - 3 potions of curing
 u - a potion of restore abilities
 E - 2 potions of haste
 H - a potion of invisibility
 M - a potion of might
 W - 6 potions of heal wounds
Miscellaneous
 G - a stone of tremors
 J - a phial of floods
 Z - a lamp of fire (inert)


   Skills:
 + Level 18.1 Fighting
 - Level 16.3 Maces & Flails
 + Level 15.9 Armour
 * Level 9.4 Dodging
 - Level 17.9 Shields
 - Level 8.0 Invocations
 - Level 5.2 Evocations


You have 18 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (5/5) Lair:3
  Snake (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:7       Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:5 ?   D:8 :   Orc:4 !%}[   Shoals:3 [

Annotations:
Lair:7 exclusion: 2 oklob plants


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You are immune to rotting.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +13).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.


[Patashu]

Here's what you should do:
1) Swap the ring of protection from cold for something else. The first pip of rC is enough, it would be better spent on something more generally beneficial such as evasion, protection, slaying...
2) Still no gloves?
3) Swap the amulet of the gourmand for Clarity. Gargoyle doesn't have problems with hunger to begin with.
4) Don't do elf unless you have a way to get +++.. MR instead of +.... MR (a single ring of magic resistance for example), unless you're prepared to get banished by every sorcerer and demonologist ever and spend a lot of time in the abyss. Also, don't underestimate elf:3, the vault is packed with tons of elves that are highly damaging (deep elf master archers and annihilators being the main culprits, but there's a lot of strong attacks there)
5) Drop the whip of electrocution, you'll never use it over vamp morningstar anyway.
6) By the way, if you get your dodging past the 'magic breakpoint', you will go from dodging doing nothing to dodging improving EV as fast as if you were in robe. So that might be a goal worth working on if you otherwise feel comfortable. Basically, if you're in heavy armour, you should ignore dodging completely until you have 1-2 runes then pump it to the point where you start getting returns, that's the rule.
7) Do vaults 1-4, depths 1-5 then do whatever.

The main things you want for zot are: rF++ (check), good sources of haste/heal wounds (using acquirement on wands will help with this), optionally some scrolls of silence (ancient liches can't cast while silenced, orbs of fire can though since they don't need to speak). Treat zot:5 like every dangerous branch end turned to 11 - it's completely packed with dangerous monsters, so the moment you see anything reverse and lure it all the way out of the vault so you can fight it one on one rather than make a lot of noise and attract the whole vault on you.

[stickyfingers]

With CPA and 11-13 dex even 27 dodging won't give more than 15 EV, totally not worth it IMO, unless you're deep into extended and really have no other things to train (although, obviously, dex should have been advanced on GrFi from the start, it's way better than str points above 20).

[Willy Elektrix]

With CPA and 11-13 dex even 27 dodging won't give more than 15 EV, totally not worth it IMO, unless you're deep into extended and really have no other things to train (although, obviously, dex should have been advanced on GrFi from the start, it's way better than str points above 20).

I got the orb but died on my way out of the dungeon. Unfortunately, I was not able to find any rMut and was horribly mutated by Orbs of Fire. But now I know what to expect.

Next time, how should I raise my attributes? Should I just increase DEX or should I alternate between STR and DEX? I intend to wear heavy armor still.

[stickyfingers]

On a GrFi? It has more than enough STR for heavy armour, so all DEX (unless you plan on casting power-hungry spells, like conjurations and summonings, then some INT). That said, I'd advise against starting GrFi. Melee gargoyle's high AC and low HP makes he's unlikely to die to anything other than casters and smiters, and against those, a stronger weapon helps, a SH does not. Take GrBe or GrGl and go two-handers.