Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?


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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 05:33

Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

So I'm trying to run a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist and I'm wondering what would be the best choice of god.

Obviously Trog and Yredelemnul are straight out. Seems like Vehumet would be best, but I don't want to discount the possibility of a less obvious god like Ashenzari or Cheibriados.

Any advice from more knowledgable players?

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 05:52

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I would consider Ash, Ely, Kiku, Nemelex. You may end up transitioning into melee as primary offense, depending on what you find. Lots of viable god choices really.
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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:03

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Assuming you want armour and spells I would strongly prefer Vehumet, Ashenzari, and Cheibriados - around in that order, and depending on my mood.
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Dis Charger

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:18

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Ashenzari is the most common recommendation for Earth Elementalists in general. This is because Scrying (being able to see through walls; high-level Ash ability); synchronizes well with passwall to make stabbing and running away with it work well.

Personally; I'd say, unless you already have access to Statue, Lehu's and Shatter; go Sif for the guarantee that you'll be given them. [Statue is about the best melee/AC buff, but it's useless if you want to be pure conjurations, summoning or ranged attacks.] (Vehumet -might- give you Lehu's and/or Shatter, no guarantees; Vehu gifts are semi-random; he won't give you statue, because it's a buff.)

It all depends on what -you want- and where your skills are with the character though; every god's bonuses are different. Ones you COULD go with:

Ash - you want to be able to see threats ahead of time, so you know when shattering a wall, or Passwalling into a vault is safe. You wish to sneak around lategame bosses instead of fighting them.
Ely - you want to heal yourself on tap.
Sif - you want access to every spell in the game and a guaranteed source of channeling (Sif's Channeling is 1d10 MP/turn at high Invo; compared to Staff of Energy's 1d3 MP/turn.)
Vehu - you want to focus on damaging spells and get MP back on kills so you can keep using a ton of damaging spells.

...etc. [I'm not spelling out the positives of every god. It is a choice that affects the rest of your run though...or at least the part of the run until you switch gods, if you do so...though that's not recommended until semi-high levels and extended because wrath can be deadly.]
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:20

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I think Statue Form can only pass as a "melee buff" if you use UC and I would not use UC on a GrEE (too XP-hungry), so I wouldn't use Statue Form on a GrEE.
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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:42

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:I think Statue Form can only pass as a "melee buff" if you use UC and I would not use UC on a GrEE (too XP-hungry), so I wouldn't use Statue Form on a GrEE.

On non-UC it's +50% dam though your delay is x1.5 so for the two extreme examples (skill for min delay assumed on both):
Quick Blade - (5 dam, 3 delay) becomes (8 dam, 5 delay). Roughly equal. Non statue wins slightly in DPS.
Claymore - (19 dam, 7 delay) becomes (29 dam, 11 delay). Roughly equal. Non statue wins slightly in DPS.
The damage per aut is lowered slightly, but the damage per hit is 1.5x higher; meaning it will pierce more armour. Valid as a boost on slower weapons and those with multiplicative brands; nerf on faster weapons and those with additive brands. The AC boost is also nice if you aren't using heavy armour, though on a Gr, there's little reason not to (enough strength and the good armour apt. can allow you to basically cancel most penalties). [My first win was a GrTm^Sif so I was using UC when I used it; hadn't done the numbers on other weapons before.]
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}
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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:52

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:Cheibriados.

Cheibriados is a challenge god. Don't worship him unless you're specifically setting out to play a Chei follower.

Sar

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:53

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

So in the end, it tanks your EV, gives you some AC (but you probably had a lot of it with unmelded armour anyway), does stuff to your weapon that you probably don't need/want and also makes you move and act slower (which means repositioning will take more time, consumables use will take more time, casting will take more time). Wow, that's not very useful!

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 06:58

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I have noticed that despite my GrEE starting unarmed and having a +1 aptitude in unarmed combat it doesn't seem to be a very good choice, especially since I'll probably want a magical staff at some point in the game. Also using UC means I have to rely mostly on my spells for damage, but Sandblast is weak and useless against anything with armor and Stone Arrow is expensive compared to other options like Magic Dart, Throw Flame, and Throw Frost.

I'll also say I've noticed Ashenzari is a VERY good god for hybrid spellcaster/fighters. The bonus for being "bound in magic" reduces spell failure to a point where casting while armored is more than feasible, which might be a good way to increase my AC without having to rely on Statue Form (for the afore-mentioned "don't want to use UC" reason and for reasons of wanting an AC buff without having to exacerbate the Gargoyle's already bad weakness to LRD and Shatter).

Sooooo, perhaps a good idea would be to run Sif Muna for a while until she grants me a spellbook with Lehudib's Crystal Spear, Shatter, and possibly Statue Form in it, and then abandoning her for Ashenzari.

Of course, abandoning is much more risky since they changed the way divine wrath works, but Sif Muna's wrath seems to be mostly related to dicking with your spellcasting. If I run with some amount of weapon ability (possibly with a good staff or mace) then only the confusion effects will really hurt.

Hmm... seems like a viable option, actually.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:00

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:Sooooo, perhaps a good idea would be to run Sif Muna for a while until she grants me a spellbook with Lehudib's Crystal Spear, Shatter, and possibly Statue Form in it, and then abandoning her for Ashenzari.


This is like trying to build a pyramid from the top down.

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Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:01

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Or you can just play with Sif, really.
Sandblast is decent with stones, though I prefer to get Stone Arrow working fast - shouldn't be hard with Gr aptitude.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:04

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sandblast is good against newts and rats, but anything with armor gets a lot of resistance to it. Even simple leather armor will reduce sandblast's damage by half. Chainmail or higher gives immunity to it.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:09

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Well it maxes at 2d20 (3d20 if you can use large rocks) supposedly if you use stones (which is pretty good for a level 1 spell really). It's been a while since I played EE though.

You know how to use stones, right? Wield them as you would a weapon and cast Sandblast. Increases damage significantly, 1 stone per cast.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:11

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Are you wielding stones? That boosts sandblasts damage.

Yes AC reduces sandblast on average more than other things but with stones wielded and at good spell power it can still do okay. In any case chainmail doesn't literally give immunity, and magic dart (e.g.) doesn't do too well against high armored targets. For a starting spell it is very good.

EDIT: Ha scooped by Sar, and his post had more details. Anyway about god advice, ash, veh, or sif would be straightforward and solid choices. Okawaru wouldn't be bad for getting melee into the mix early without neglecting your magic skills. Less straightforward I suppose, but Kiku is great also, pain weapon is low investment killer melee and you maybe get the fun shatter-skele thing going. (LRD turns your own skeletons into bombs when you want to.)

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 07:15

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:Well it maxes at 2d20 (3d20 if you can use large rocks) supposedly if you use stones (which is pretty good for a level 1 spell really). It's been a while since I played EE though.

You know how to use stones, right? Wield them as you would a weapon and cast Sandblast. Increases damage significantly, 1 stone per cast.


Yeah, ctrl+left click in tiles, or use the wield command. I usually save my stones to use against stronger enemies, though.

To be fair, I kinda got soured on the use of sandblast after... well, let's just say I totally failed to so much as harm Ijyb, then found out he had scale mail on after I finally beat him to death with a club. :\

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 08:15

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Not sure whether you still consider Vehumet, but I would advise against it. Not that it is bad choice, you'd probably do fine with him, but his spell gifts are rather arbitrary and only attack spells, most of which you won't use. His biggest advantage, the range increase on spells, which totally rocks on IE, FE, Cj, etc. is less useful on EE, since it will only affect a small fraction of the spells.
Anyways GrEE is an extremely strong combination!

Sar

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 08:28

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Range increase is useful for Stone Arrow, Iron Shot and LCS.

Edit: also I wouldn't say that's Veh's biggest advantage. He gives you wizardry (that stacks with other wizardry well), he gives you MP-on-kills, he gifts you spells too, yes.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 08:46

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

As an aside, I've heard (mostly from TVTropes, which admittedly is not necessarily accurate) that Lehudib's Crystal Spear isn't remotely practical for its cost and that Iron Shot is much better. Would you generally agree/disagree?

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 09:10

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Berlioz wrote:His biggest advantage, the range increase on spells, which totally rocks on IE, FE, Cj, etc. is less useful on EE, since it will only affect a small fraction of the spells.


That seems backwards to me. I would say range extension is most useful to an EE (as Sar points out it extends the range of the bread and butter EE kill spells), and least useful on FE (as BoF is already full LOS). Though I guess range extension is useful on bolt spells if you like to skewer multiple enemies with it.

Knight9910 wrote:but Sandblast is weak and useless against anything with armor and Stone Arrow is expensive compared to other options like Magic Dart, Throw Flame, and Throw Frost.


Stone Arrow is very good. It kills things much faster than those other spells, so you don't need to cast it as many times. With Sandblast, sure you have to be aware that it's not good against high AC, but otherwise it does very nice damage. Heck, I'd switch to Sandblast at close range after softening a target with Stone Arrow (assuming I have spare stones).

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 10:41

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:I've heard (mostly from TVTropes, which admittedly is not necessarily accurate) that Lehudib's Crystal Spear isn't remotely practical for its cost and that Iron Shot is much better.

That's a lie, LCS is more accurate and damaging, as befits a higher level spell. It has less range, though. You might wanna edit that out of that page before it misleads more people!

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 11:40

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I'm kind of banned from TVTropes. ^^;;

For reference, the exact quote:

Awesome, but Impractical: Lehudib's Crystal Spear is the most powerful conjuration in the game. What's the problem? It has a short range (bad for Squishy Wizards), it's inaccurate, and it requires a player to train a somewhat mediocre spell school to very high levels in order to cast it. Oh, and it's overkill against anything other than a few unique demon lords. Iron Shot, Crystal Spear's little brother, is cheaper, has better range, is easier to cast, and most enemies will die after a few hits.


Also says that Earth Magic is "mediocre." I mean, sure it doesn't have fire storm or ice storm, but I've discovered from playing this GrEE character that Earth Magic is most definitely NOT mediocre.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 12:20

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I've stopped really reading at Squishy Wizards
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 12:25

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

how do you even get banned from that site

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 12:38

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:how do you even get banned from that site


It's easier than you'd think. The head admin is kind of uncompromising and tends to just to conclusions about things.

nago wrote:I've stopped really reading at Squishy Wizards


That's another one. Crawl offers practically infinite freedom to build your character however you want. If your character is a squishy wizard it's because you built them that way.

Considering elven leather has no casting penalty there's really no reason a caster character shouldn't at LEAST get a suit of good elven leather and enchant it up really good.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 12:45

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Well, a good reason not to get elven leather is that it no longer exists! Racial armours and weapons were removed recently. That said, there are plenty of ways to up your character's passive survivability regardless.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 12:58

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:Well, a good reason not to get elven leather is that it no longer exists! Racial armours and weapons were removed recently. That said, there are plenty of ways to up your character's passive survivability regardless.


Someone needs to edit the wiki then.

And anyway, elven leather might not exist anymore, but really? Regular leather doesn't apply all that much of a spell failure rate anyway. Honestly, the average spellcaster could probably wear ring or scale mail without too much trouble.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 13:48

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Oh no, I wasn't implying a "spellcaster" is obliged to stick to robes!

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 14:16

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I didn't think you were, I was just saying.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 14:21

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:how do you even get banned from that site


From what I hear, you just have to annoy the people in charge. For instance, if you question the need for there to be a dedicated "Tropers' Tales" page for various forms of criminal sexual conduct, that's a banhammer for you. Because information needs to be free and removing a contribution is an insult to all contributors. Kind of like the Crawl Wiki, only instead of giving bad game advice to newbies it gives a similar level of quality advice that can actually land you in jail if you follow it.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 15:13

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

KoboldLord wrote:
Sar wrote:how do you even get banned from that site


From what I hear, you just have to annoy the people in charge. For instance, if you question the need for there to be a dedicated "Tropers' Tales" page for various forms of criminal sexual conduct, that's a banhammer for you. Because information needs to be free and removing a contribution is an insult to all contributors. Kind of like the Crawl Wiki, only instead of giving bad game advice to newbies it gives a similar level of quality advice that can actually land you in jail if you follow it.


Tropers' Tales was deleted quite a while ago, though not for that reason. It just got too big for the site to hold it.

It is true, though, that questioning the mods gets you in a LOT of trouble there. For example, the page image for I Call Her Vera (a trope about people who treat their guns like loved ones) is awful and doesn't demonstrate the trope at all. The trope name also doesn't demonstrate the trope at all - unless you know Vera is the name of a character's gun in Firefly you'll have no clue what the Hell it's talking about. So why that name and that image? Because they're both from Firefly, which is the head admin's favorite TV show.

Not only is no one allowed to change the name or image, even discussing the name and image gets you an automatic warning to shut up or get banned.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 15:20

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Oh, looks like local internet North Korea.
English is NOT my native language.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 15:24

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

The worst part is the mods talk about how much they hate when people do that - you know, naming tropes after their favorite TV shows without thinking that other people won't get the reference. They call it "Fan Myopia" and they've even gone so far as to permanently ban people for it. But apparently when the mods do it it's totally fine.

Yeah, I could go on for a while about the reasons they're jerks, but it would be kinda off topic.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 15:35

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I regret asking. Sorry!

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 16:41

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I see why LCS can perhaps seem not worth it on paper, but really it is worth trying out. You'll notice the difference.

I don't know the math to back this up, but from my experience, that boost in damage it does over iron shot (regardless of whether iron shot has better average dam/MP) means the difference between, say, being able to pretty reliably take out an OOF in two shots (and every now and then, one shot it) rather than three/four shots.

Damage is always being compared, not against an arbitrarily large supply of HP, but against the very finite "pockets" of HP that enemies represent (with their AC/EV/resistances as a mitigating factor of course). Sometimes a boost in damage in just the right spot can have a much larger impact than the numbers alone might suggest. That's usually been my experience with LCS. Against high HP, high AC targets that you want dead *now*, it is the best spell.

(And it hugely benefits from a range boost, as does iron shot. Also earth elementalists may later want to splash some of a different element for a bolt or cloud attack, veh's wizardry boost makes that much more manageable in terms of experience, you can do it earlier and without neglecting your core skills, plus those spells benefit greatly from range extension too.)

Oh final point: Passwall + ash is fun but is hardly the only, or even the main draw, for an earth elementalist. As usual the skill boost is the major benefit.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 16:49

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

EE have actually a very good AoE attack (LRD) that with sufficient Earth investment annihilates things. It requires fuel though, but I don't find that to be too problematic.
Well and if you are a Gr and have +3 Earth, Shatter is not out of question.

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Post Monday, 14th April 2014, 17:26

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:Well and if you are a Gr and have +3 Earth, Shatter is not out of question.

Gr only had +3 earth magic for a short while; it's +2 now. Nevertheless it's still quite good and with a boost from a god and possibly a ring of wizardry you can get there quickly if you really want to.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 00:45

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Crystal Spear is a great spell. People who say that it doesn't compare well to Iron Shot are probably trying to cast it off pure conjurations with no or minimal earth magic skill. Under such circumstances, then no, it won't have accuracy that is sufficiently reliable. But picking up either without bothering to invest in earth magic skill is a dumb thing to do. If you want your DEFE to have an attack that that runs off pure conjurations so you can deal with fire-resistant monsters, there's Mystic Blast, Orb of Destruction, and eventually Fire Storm. Use those. Iron Shot and Crystal Spear run off two skills and need both to get good spell power.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 01:24

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I've also found that Gargoyle's can cast LRD on themselves to damage all surrounding enemies at the cost of a little bit of their own HP which is... an interesting tactic, I suppose. So far I've never been in a situation where I've even so much as considered it...
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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 01:38

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:I've also found that Gargoyle's can cast LRD on themselves to damage all surrounding enemies at the cost of a little bit of their own HP which is... an interesting tactic, I suppose. So far I've never been in a situation where I've even so much as considered it...

Gargoyles are vulnerable to LRD and take bonus damage from Shatter, which is why you need to be extra careful of enemies with earth magic (mainly deep troll earth elementalists and Jorgrun).

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 04:08

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:So far I've never been in a situation where I've even so much as considered it...


Well, yes. That's because the situations in which it would be even a remotely reasonable option are very, very unlikely. So, not to put too fine a point on it, but it isn't so much a tactic as an interesting bit of trivia.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 04:55

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Viashino_wizard wrote:
Knight9910 wrote:I've also found that Gargoyle's can cast LRD on themselves to damage all surrounding enemies at the cost of a little bit of their own HP which is... an interesting tactic, I suppose. So far I've never been in a situation where I've even so much as considered it...

Gargoyles are vulnerable to LRD and take bonus damage from Shatter, which is why you need to be extra careful of enemies with earth magic (mainly deep troll earth elementalists and Jorgrun).
LRD on you actually does pathetic damage by the time it appears, you aren't actually vulnerable to shatter because you're permanently flying, and you're also immune to petrify, so imo Jorgrun is pretty much more pathetic than usual against gargoyles.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 06:19

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I actually have used the "LRD on self" trick a few times in the orc mines, when I get surrounded away from walls, and I have to say it isn't that bad. I mean, I obviously wouldn't want to use it in Zot or Pandemonium or someplace dangerous like that, but in orc? It kills everything around me while only taking my own life down by maybe 1/10th. And of course by the time I'm in Zot or Pan I'll likely have Shatter anyway.

And yeah, I also noticed this from the wiki page on Shatter:

The inflicted damage is modified as follows and then reduced by 1dAC.
Flying: Damage/3
Statue Form or Gargoyle: Damage*2 (not applied when you are flying)


There's really no reason for my gargoyle to NOT fly everywhere now that he has the ability, meaning yeah, shatter is no big deal.

I'm actually learning a lot about this combo. I might actually try to put together a GrEE guide when I'm done. I know people on the forums think player guides are just ego-stroking BS, but I think it could help to get all this info together.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 06:37

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910 wrote:There's really no reason for my gargoyle to NOT fly everywhere now that he has the ability


Airstrike?

Knight9910 wrote:I'm actually learning a lot about this combo. I might actually try to put together a GrEE guide when I'm done. I know people on the forums think player guides are just ego-stroking BS, but I think it could help to get all this info together.


Preferably after playing a few GrEE's and not just one, please. And then maybe throw in a few other Gr's and a few other EE's to add some perspective.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 06:44

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

DracheReborn wrote:Preferably after playing a few GrEE's and not just one, please. And then maybe throw in a few other Gr's and a few other EE's to add some perspective.


Good idea. I want the guide to be as accurate as possible.

DracheReborn wrote:Airstrike?


And this is an example of why I should play more than one GrEE before writing a guide. I was wondering why Gastronok was doing so much damage to me... that explains that.

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Post Tuesday, 15th April 2014, 14:32

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Knight9910, let me suggest to you what I suggested to PsiWeapon when he was proposing to write a guide: instead of a guide, write an incredibly in-depth play-by-play of a game you're doing. After the game is over, go back and fill in all the details of why you made each decision, and under which circumstances you would have chosen otherwise. Make sure to note times when you come to regret an earlier choice. The benefit of this format is threefold: 1) you'll learn a huge amount from having to explain your decision-making process, 2) this format will focus your writing on how to make the myriad decisions that come up in a game of Crawl -- decisions that are rarely well-handled by a guide format, and 3) by making it clear that this is an account of your experience rather than an authoritative guide, you both give the reader more reasonable expectations and prevent the inevitable deluge of corrections from people who want an authoritative source to avoid giving any bad or misleading or irrelevant advice.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 22nd April 2014, 18:24

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Quick question (since the subject came up), what impact does flying everywhere have on your hunger rate (and does it vary depending on the source)?

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Post Tuesday, 22nd April 2014, 18:45

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I believe this may be illuminating.

Apparently using your flight has a one-time hunger cost (similar to equipping a vamp weapon) but no residual hunger loss effect.

Here's the question, though: the hunger cost is listed for Tengu and for Draconians, but what is it for Gargoyles? Does anyone know?

Sar

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Post Tuesday, 22nd April 2014, 19:04

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

I love how that article has hunger costs for abilities that no longer exist, like Throw Frost (Demonspawn used to be able to get those in some really old version I did not play).

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Post Tuesday, 22nd April 2014, 19:10

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:I love how that article has hunger costs for abilities that no longer exist, like Throw Frost (Demonspawn used to be able to get those in some really old version I did not play).


Hey man, it is important stuff. After all,

Hunger and food in Dungeon Crawl is a significant issue, one that can break a game.


Okay since I poked fun at it, I guess I need to edit this page now.

Anyway, the hunger costs of various abilities is an interesting curiosity perhaps but not something to worry over. The huge table under "Nutritional Values of Food Items" makes me want to cry and laugh at the same time. I'd expect that the hunger cost for gargoyles to begin flying is... either 0 or about the same as Tengu. But I don't actually know for sure.

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Post Tuesday, 22nd April 2014, 19:27

Re: Good deity for a Gargoyle Earth Elementalist?

Sar wrote:I love how that article has hunger costs for abilities that no longer exist, like Throw Frost (Demonspawn used to be able to get those in some really old version I did not play).


I played that version! ...actually, I played Linley's Crawl which had that. I have no idea when that was removed from Stone Soup.
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