How to survive as a Naga

[Sekans_Aval]

So I've been playing a few Naga Abyssal Knights recently, which has been quite the adventure as both the race and class are completely out of my comfort zone. It's definitely been fun, gives me a lot of abilities to play around with, but god is it hard.

Forgetting my worship of Lugonu for a moment, I don't really understand how Nagas are supposed to survive. Sure, you have an awesome abilities from level 1 to shoot poison at people and have the innate rpois, so thats nice. the AK background gives me a +2/+2 weapon for which I chose a falchion, so early dungeon is pretty easy. But anything beyond that has been kind of terrifying.

Wish i had my morgue file on me (at a different computer right now) because RNG has not been kind to me this game (wore a ring of hunger on D2, didn't find a remove curse scroll until D9. Haven't found a branded long sword yet and I'm on mid lair now), but even that said, I don't think i understand Nagas. Aside from the early game benefit of spit poison, the -2 aptitudes for both dodging and armor seem pretty damning on top of the shit move speed you already have. I'm almost tempted to just hide behind some really heavy armor but I feel like I'll really need to be able to cast spells to survive as a naga.

The only reason im still alive at mid lair is because of banish and the blink you get under Lugonu (which are both really fun by the way).

So i don't know, you tell me, how do i live as a Naga?

I'm playing the last update of trunk that was downloadable (2-26, which by the way, do we know when that will be updated? I know it was server issues, but it's been almost a month)

[arcanist]

Surviving as naga is a very general question.
For example, NaWz has pretty good chances of survival with mepilic cloud and conjure flame. NaTm tend to survive well due to the spider form.
You may check about melee in tasonir's guide http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Tasonir's_Melee_Naga_Guide

[Sar]

Spit poison. Spit poison a lot. When you see an enemy you want to spit poison at, spit, retreat, spit again (cooldown is really short, at least initially). Later, you are AK, you can banish people. I find that I start training Fighting as my first defensive skill on Nagas usually. They can get pretty absurd HP pretty fast.
I also used to get ~5 points Stealth very early, but on my latest Nagas I didn't and it still worked out. Though you might try that too, it doesn't take too much XP with +5 aptitude.

Edit: I see somebody suggested tasonir's guide. IIRC it suggests Chei. I probably would not suggest Chei. My favourite Naga gods are probably Fedhas and Kiku. Yred can be good too - try NaDK!

[KoboldLord]

Managing slow movement is the naga's entire game. You get a crazy amount of racial benefits, but on balance slow movement is worse than all of your other racial benefits put together are good. It is absolutely hard to avoid getting overwhelmed by monsters that you can't escape, and that's the whole point of the race.

So what you need to learn is how to manage monster awareness so you never have to fight more than you want to fight. When you meet an orc pack, you want to attract the attention only of the subset of that pack that you want to fight, and not the whole thing. Perhaps you throw a dart at the first orc, and then immediately start to retreat. It'll catch you, yes, but the others won't find you right away. Then you kill that orc and slither off, looking for that pack so you can hit them from another angle, shaving off one or two members of their party at a time until there's one lone orcish priest left looking at the empty hallways and wondering where everybody went.

Hallways are your friend, even more so than they are with other species. If you get caught in the open, the enemy carpet of doom will surround you and chew you up. If you're in a hallway, you can even manage a fighting retreat to the stairwell if you need to because a single monster hitting you is a lot less painful than when they are ganging up on you. You should plan to go up and down different stairwells a lot, because the last thing you want is to poke your head down the stairs and see that there's already six guys watching you and sharpening their spears. Identify your consumables early and don't hesitate to use them, because you might not get a second chance if things go poorly.

[arcanist]

I also used to get ~5 points Stealth very early, but on my latest Nagas I didn't and it still worked out. Though you might try that too, it doesn't take too much XP with +5 aptitude.

+1 for stealth. Stealth is so good.
and starting nearly every battle with poison in early game is now pretty much automatic for me.
on the other hand, open spaces always make me nervous...

[Lasty]

Haven't found a branded long sword yet and I'm on mid lair now

That's not at all surprising. It's fairly common to find a scimitar or great sword before finding a branded long sword.

As for surviving as a naga, Lugonu is a good start. Blink offsets some of your slowness, and Banish removes almost everything dangerous you fight until Depths. Beyond that, you've already seen that nagas can use poison spit to destroy monsters in the early game. They also have very high HP and the ability to wear bardings, which can make them very resilient. Their low dex makes Dodging a bad early investment, so just slap on something heavy and work on armor skill. It may have -2 apt, but between naga base AC bonus and bardings, you end up with a decent AC bonus anyway.

As with any other time you're slow, focusing on good positioning and tactics is a must. Do not expose yourself to too much danger. Give yourself the ability to force corridor fights. Follow Crate's Law: when a monster comes into view, do not move towards it.

[duvessa]

That guide is horrendous. Aside from telling you to use the worst possible naga god and just giving you generally absurd advice (shouting at things, wtf?) it manages to be flat-out factually wrong about various things, like shield penalties being lower for unarmed combat than for weapons (shield penalties are strictly higher for unarmed). It is an excellent example of everything that is wrong with the wiki and tavern, and you should treat it as if it does not exist.

[Klown]

I played a NaFi of Chei last week, and it died mid-game.
Other than the death, it was pretty smooth and easy though. And that was without using spit poison and step from time.

[Sekans_Aval]

That guide is horrendous. Aside from telling you to use the worst possible naga god and just giving you generally absurd advice (shouting at things, wtf?) it manages to be flat-out factually wrong about various things, like shield penalties being lower for unarmed combat than for weapons. It is an excellent example of everything that is wrong with the wiki and tavern, and you should treat it as if it does not exist.

Yeah I did see that guide but decided to ask you all for this exact reason. You get a bit more variety in the advice here, which I appreciate.

Which on that note, thank you everyone! This is all very helpful. My biggest takeaways so far are to train armor and fighting a bit more than i currently am (and probably leave dodging alone for the most part), and to be way more careful about my positioning. If anything, playing Nagas will probably teach me to be much more careful about positioning

[Sar]

I don't know about Dodging vs. Armour, I will sometimes train some Dodging before Armour on my Naga (say if I wear a robe and don't have a barding), but usually I will get some Fighting first. On onther hand, having a barding makes it worth to put some points in Armour even if you wear robe to get 2-3 AC.

[Laraso]

To put what duvessa said into perspective, a Naga worshiping any other god moves at speed 14. A Naga worshiping Cheibriados at maximum piety moves at speed 28. That's nearly three times slower than the default speed of a normal race, which is speed 10. If you're playing a human and you let swiftness run out and you get the -Swift status, and then you get slowed, you'll be moving at speed 23. Let me point out again that a Naga of Chei moves at speed 28, which is slower than that. If a Naga of Chei gets slowed, they will move at speed 42.

Worshiping Chei while playing as a Naga is probably the worst possible decision you could make, unless you're some sort of masochist.

[Sandman25]

Worshiping Chei while playing as a Naga is probably the worst possible decision you could make, unless you're some sort of masochist.

... or you don't need to move because you kill everything or escape via Step from Time/cBlink. I know I have mentioned it already but I won with 15 runes NaVM of Chei first time I tried and it was almost a year ago when I was much weaker player. About a month ago it took 5 attempts to finally win NaEn of non-Chei. So I think Chei is ok for some backgrounds, even for Na.

[Laraso]

Just because something is possible (winning 15 runes with Naga of Chei) doesn't meant it's optimal or even practical, especially for someone who is (supposedly, I don't know for sure) new to the game asking for advice on how to play a Naga. It might be surprising but not everyone finds a book with Controlled Blink in it, a Naga of Chei is the very definition of "stupid slow" and telling someone to follow a guide that recommends playing a Naga of Chei is a bad idea.

I could make a case for Spriggan Berserkers about how it is theoretically possible to win and how people have already won SpBe, but that doesn't mean SpBe is a good idea. The same thing applies to Nagas of Chei.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

A human of Chei takes 2 turns to move one step, a naga of Chei takes 3 turns to move one step. That's a monumentally huge difference, and nagas gain nothing significant to make up for it (the only advantage is slightly stronger Slouch, but anyone who has used Chei knows that Slouch doesn't need more damage). Naga is objectively the worst race with which to worship Chei.

[Ajonos]

Just because something is possible (winning 15 runes with Naga of Chei) doesn't meant it's optimal or even practical, especially for someone who is (supposedly, I don't know for sure) new to the game asking for advice on how to play a Naga. It might be surprising but not everyone finds a book with Controlled Blink in it, a Naga of Chei is the very definition of "stupid slow" and telling someone to follow a guide that recommends playing a Naga of Chei is a bad idea.

I could make a case for Spriggan Berserkers about how it is theoretically possible to win and how people have already won SpBe, but that doesn't mean SpBe is a good idea. The same thing applies to Nagas of Chei.

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it. The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what, which is by far the worst thing about the species. The worst part about playing a Chei worshipper is that you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what. When you combine the two... you're still not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what. The magnitude of the difference is irrelevant, you're still either going to be forced to fight it out or escape in a way that doesn't require conventional movement (teleport, step from time, etc.) I hardly consider the ability to run away from slugs that vital a skill when choosing a god.

The only time I can see 28 speed being significantly worse than 14 speed is if you're a pure melee and trying to close the gap with a caster/archer. But if you're playing a pure melee of Chei you are wasting his potential.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it.

The point is that Naga gets MORE downsides with Chei, but get NO EXTRA BENEFIT. Nagas of Chei get the same +15 stats as everyone else.

The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what,

If you think this is true then you are bad at Crawl. A few extra steps means making it to a hallway.

[duvessa]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it. The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what, which is by far the worst thing about the species.

  Code:

q - 2 potions of haste

[Laraso]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it. The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what, which is by far the worst thing about the species.

Well actually no, Nagas of anything other than Chei can cast Swiftness and Haste and they can also wear equipment such as a naga barding of speed. Yes, Nagas of not-chei have many options at their disposal to get away, but a Naga of chei doesn't really have any options other than controlled blink and teleportation.

(Also, 28 speed is always significantly worse than 14 speed, in any situation for any character of any god)

[Abominae]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it. The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what, which is by far the worst thing about the species.

See, this is where you are wrong. A Naga without Chei CAN actually use movement effectively. When I say that, I don't imply just running away (which a Naga CAN do thanks to Swiftness & Haste), but I mean basic positioning can still be utilized without TWICE the punishment for doing so.

[Sandman25]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it.

The point is that Naga gets MORE downsides with Chei, but get NO EXTRA BENEFIT. Nagas of Chei get the same +15 stats as everyone else.

Why? Chei is worse for Hu than for Na. Hu loses ability to run away from 90% monsters, Na loses ability to run away from 10% monsters

[cerebovssquire]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it. The thing is, if you're playing a naga, you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what, which is by far the worst thing about the species. The worst part about playing a Chei worshipper is that you're not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what. When you combine the two... you're still not going to be able to run away from anything no matter what. The magnitude of the difference is irrelevant, you're still either going to be forced to fight it out or escape in a way that doesn't require conventional movement (teleport, step from time, etc.) I hardly consider the ability to run away from slugs that vital a skill when choosing a god.

Because while you can't run away with nagas*, they will still move in combat a lot and that is much easier with speed 2 than speed 2.8. You want to position yourself intelligently to start a fight and possibly reposition yourself multiple times during it so you take less damage, using weak monsters and walls and corners to prevent dangerous monsters from hitting you a lot, etc. This is all very possible with slow speed because your goal isn't to get away completely.
Running away is very binary (you either are faster than the monster, or you aren't) and once you pass "slower than the monster" being even slower isn't very relevant. When it comes to moving during a fight, being faster is obviously still good, but being very slow as opposed to just slow is relevant - specifcally, with speed 2.8 you will take 280% of the damage you would take with speed 10 as opposed to 200% which is a big deal.
Closing the gap to archers/mages isn't as much of a problem as it sounds because, in my experience, Temporal Distortion is very good.

*of course, if you were playing a decent god, you could haste yourself and run away - but that is a problem with chei and not na*chei specifically

[Magipi]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it.

The point is that Naga gets MORE downsides with Chei, but get NO EXTRA BENEFIT. Nagas of Chei get the same +15 stats as everyone else.

Why? Chei is worse for Hu than for Na. Hu loses ability to run away from 90% monsters, Na loses ability to run away from 10% monsters

Yes, Chei is bad for every species, almost everyone agrees

[Sekans_Aval]

So for the record, I've never tried Chae either, but figured since Nagas were already slow, they were probably the perfect fit. So i guess i learned something else on that too!

I'm not exactly a new player, but im also not very good. I've never won, and probably gotten to Vaults about 5-10 times. NaAK was part of my recent attempt to break from my common races/backgrounds/gods. The tavern is slowly making me a better player, i think. At least I'm not autotraining and focusing on throwing every game now. I was convinced that i could become invincible with all the darts I was finding.

[Sandman25]

Yes, Chei is bad for every species, almost everyone agrees

My point was that Na of Chei gets less downsides than Hu. Also Hu does not have +20% HP, stealth and poison breath/resistance to survive early game and does not have high AC/constriction to rule late game.

[Sar]

I don't know if I would recommend Naga to someone learning the game. I enjoy playing them myself, but their early game can be fairly tough. Do you have any character concept in mind or did you chose them for other reasons?

[Laraso]

My point was that Na of Chei gets less downsides than Hu.

I don't know about you, but I generally find speed 20 to be better than speed 28.

[Sar]

Hu also have good Dodging apt (hi Cheidex), no EV penalty, level fast, get full AC from body armour (and Cheistr makes heavier armours more attractive), good Armour apt... And of course, they won't be slowed as much.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

Why? Chei is worse for Hu than for Na. Hu loses ability to run away from 90% monsters, Na loses ability to run away from 10% monsters

Your statement is flatly wrong, that's why. "Run away" doesn't mean "lead in infinite circles with the enemy never catching up", it means "run away". Every extra step you get before that monster closes to melee range saves your life fifty times over. Chei gives Nagas a bigger penalty to this number than any other race.

Movement speed is the only number in Crawl that matters in a very precise and vital way in basically every situation that ever occurs. Why is it that this is seemingly the only number in Crawl that you don't obsess over??? It is the only one you SHOULD!

[duvessa]

I keep hearing the same arguments about why Naga of Chei is bad, but I don't see it.

The point is that Naga gets MORE downsides with Chei, but get NO EXTRA BENEFIT. Nagas of Chei get the same +15 stats as everyone else.

Why? Chei is worse for Hu than for Na.

No. No, he's not. This has been explained many times in this thread alone, but I'll go ahead and give some more reasons why not:
- Humans have a much easier early game than nagas, which is rather important since Chei does nothing in the early game except make it worse.
- If you are moving away from a speed 10 monster, at max piety, and it is next to you, the monster will get 80% MORE ATTACKS against a naga of Chei compared to a human of Chei.
- If you are moving away from a speed 10 monster, at max piety, and it is not next to you already, you will have 40% FEWER MOVES (which often rounds up to 50%) before it is next to you.
- If you are not at max piety, those figures are even higher.

[arcanist]

I don't know if I would recommend Naga to someone learning the game.

this http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Conjurer_guide guide assumes that Na is the best specie for conjurer available. I learned how to play crawl mostly by plaing nagas...

[Sar]

I read till the point where this guide recommends startscumming Dr (even though they are "not particularly good as general spellcasters") and decided I don't like it very much.

Edit: "Staffs of energy should be used before casting Flight, Haste and Deflect Missiles if they still have a hunger cost" - Jesus wept.

[Eyesburn]

Here are some examples of Naga of Chei
(dont know why but I like those kind of character builds)

http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 062739.txt
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 202132.txt
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 052133.txt
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 013421.txt

also
Deep Elf Conjurer of Chei http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperrchand ... 042454.txt

[Sar]

Here is an example of Naga without Chei:
http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Sar/morgue-Sar-20131007-092904.txt

Spoiler: show

  Code:

O - +6 lightning scales {run, rElec}

[Magipi]

Congrats to Chei for successfully kidnapping the thread, which is about Nagas of Lugonu.

Sar gave some very good advice early on. Anything else?

[TheDefiniteArticle]

Find and train some form of ranged combat. This is very helpful for both Nagas and distortion-wielders (hopefully you are playing a recent version so you can freely swap it out for launchers/rods).

Make Invo a priority early on. Banish is how AKs deal with scary things for the whole early game, and its power maxes at around 11 skill. Eventually you want to be able to reliably use Corruption and Enter the Abyss, but those are for after your character is fully 'established'.

[Sar]

Huh, I didn't train any ranged skills on my melee Nagas, I generally don't do that on melee characters, but I might be wrong.

[Lasty]

There's an important point about slow movement that the Na^Chei defenders are ignoring, which Abominae and cerebovssquire pointed out: you don't only move when you are running away. Most of the moves you make in crawl aren't to run away, and there are scenarios where doing them slowly is very painful -- the more slowly, the more painful. Here are a few:

1: You come into LOS of a monster, and they immediately notice you. The slower you are, the more actions they take before you get a chance to react. Giving Erolcha 3 free actions after she notices you is pretty painful.
2: You need to walk around a corner to break LOS. The longer this takes the more time your pursuers have to reposition themselves. If you have to move more than one step, then you also expose yourself to more damage as you move.
3: You need to reposition in combat. Maybe someone dropped a cloud spell. Maybe you need to prevent an unexpected surround. Maybe something else just came into view. There are a lot of reasons you might need to take one step in combat, and if that step takes you significantly longer, then it's significantly more painful to have to take it.

Any time your movement is slowed, you put yourself at significantly greater risk in a large number of common situations; as such, you really should not make choices to amplify the weakness of slow movement. With Chei in particular, not only do you multiply your slowness, you also remove most of the common ways to mitigate slowness.

As a side note, a naga that makes it to Lair is about twice as likely to win if it is not worshipping Chei, according to player stats.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

Huh, I didn't train any ranged skills on my melee Nagas, I generally don't do that on melee characters, but I might be wrong.

Okay, fine, never use ranged combat ever. Pretend you don't have poison spit since clearly attacking things more than one space away from yourself is forbidden. Have fun on D1!

[tasonir]

That guide is horrendous. Aside from telling you to use the worst possible naga god and just giving you generally absurd advice (shouting at things, wtf?) it manages to be flat-out factually wrong about various things, like shield penalties being lower for unarmed combat than for weapons (shield penalties are strictly higher for unarmed). It is an excellent example of everything that is wrong with the wiki and tavern, and you should treat it as if it does not exist.

Shield penalties are in fact lower for unarmed than they are for weapons. For example, the penalty for using a shield with a battle axe is that you cannot in fact wield the battleaxe at all. That's quite harsh, and will result in you hitting things with your 3 base damage, untrained punching. Using shields with unarmed does have high penalties, but it is still a powerful combination that you pay for with generally higher experience commitment, both for unarmed in general, and then unarmed + shields especially.

That said the guide does have significant problems, and I should probably update it.

Also, to be clear, I didn't pick Nagas of Chei because I was looking for an easy combo - I was looking for late game power, being cool, and a playstyle that I like (chei). I wouldn't recommend it to beginners. It was more reasonable with early constriction in .10, but now the early game is very difficult (it was always tricky).

[Laraso]

clearly attacking things more than one space away from yourself is forbidden. Have fun on D1!

Polearms

[Sar]

find and train some form of ranged combat

poison spit

how do I trained spit

[Viashino_wizard]

Shield penalties are in fact lower for unarmed than they are for weapons. For example, the penalty for using a shield with a battle axe is that you cannot in fact wield the battleaxe at all. That's quite harsh, and will result in you hitting things with your 3 base damage, untrained punching.

More realistically, it will result in you hitting things with an 11 or 13 base damage war/broad axe. It's still a valid point that wearing a shield doesn't limit your maximum base damage for UC the way it does for every weapon skill besides Short Blades.

[Sar]

To clarify: of course I do use spit a lot (I said as much in my first post in this thread, actually!) and I use tomahawks/javelins/slings in early/mid game, stones or darts to pull enemies apart, blowguns with curare during the whole game - I just don't really train respective skills. I think that having a developed ranged skill, like Bows/Crossbows would lead to a lot of switching, which I don't find fun, and I also don't find ranged fun, and I my Nagas could get by with just melee and occasional bolt wand/evoker, though that was probably harder than for normal speed race. This might be wrong though, maybe getting ranged skills on melee Nagas* is objectively best way (it might be since ranged is OP).

*Nagas that don't cast Conjuration-type spells, because of course all my Nagas melee things.

[tasonir]

Here are some examples of Naga of Chei
(dont know why but I like those kind of character builds)

http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 062739.txt
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 202132.txt
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 052133.txt
http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/Ta ... 013421.txt

also
Deep Elf Conjurer of Chei http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/hyperrchand ... 042454.txt

Nice to see my morgues listed! If we're being somewhat flexible with the term melee naga, I just thought I'd point out ranged weapons are quite good. I was really surprised how absolutely rare ranged nagas are. As in, completely unplayed. The morgue of my NaHu, http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 052133.txt, is actually the highest scoring NaHu of all time (of any god). It has 7 runes. As far as I know, no one has ever 15 runed one. Note this doesn't mean no one ever used a ranged weapon for 15 runes, just that no one did it with the hunter background. Maybe the next time I'm unemployed I can get around to it!

I only stopped at 7 runes because it was during a tournament, and I didn't have enough real-life time to play during the rest of the tournament to do all 15. 3% fail on controlled blink in GDA...man that was a crazy game I think I might have also been running low on arrows, to be fair.

[Sandman25]

Why? Chei is worse for Hu than for Na. Hu loses ability to run away from 90% monsters, Na loses ability to run away from 10% monsters

Your statement is flatly wrong, that's why. "Run away" doesn't mean "lead in infinite circles with the enemy never catching up", it means "run away". Every extra step you get before that monster closes to melee range saves your life fifty times over. Chei gives Nagas a bigger penalty to this number than any other race.

Movement speed is the only number in Crawl that matters in a very precise and vital way in basically every situation that ever occurs. Why is it that this is seemingly the only number in Crawl that you don't obsess over??? It is the only one you SHOULD!

lol
Yes, I remember our old discussions about superiority of boots of running and how their 1.0->0.9 effect wins games for you. I wonder how Na wins games at all (even without Chei). Come on, speed is not that important for some characters. Just take a look at my Na of Chei who was wearing hat of pondering

[Sandman25]

No. No, he's not. This has been explained many times in this thread alone, but I'll go ahead and give some more reasons why not:
- Humans have a much easier early game than nagas, which is rather important since Chei does nothing in the early game except make it worse.
- If you are moving away from a speed 10 monster, at max piety, and it is next to you, the monster will get 80% MORE ATTACKS against a naga of Chei compared to a human of Chei.
- If you are moving away from a speed 10 monster, at max piety, and it is not next to you already, you will have 40% FEWER MOVES (which often rounds up to 50%) before it is next to you.
- If you are not at max piety, those figures are even higher.

Solution is simple - don't retreat if it will kill you. Especially at high piety. Your list reminds me something like "Why Necromutation at 80% failure rate is worse than Necromutation at 40% failure rate". Naga is already very slow.

Edit. Did everyone missed my post where I stated that Chei changes tacticsin 90% fights for Hu and in 10% fights for Na?

[Laraso]

lol
Yes, I remember our old discussions about superiority of boots of running and how their 1.0->0.9 effect wins games for you. I wonder how Na wins games at all (even without Chei). Come on, speed is not that important for some characters. Just take a look at my Na of Chei who was wearing hat of pondering

* (race=naga) has won 626 times in 90657 games (0.69%)
* (race=centaur) has won 532 times in 38074 games (1.40%)

Centaurs and Nagas a very similar, although Nagas have better apts in every category except for bows and start with a ranged poison spit attack.
Centaurs move twice as fast as Nagas and win twice as often. Coincidence? I think not.

[Sandman25]

lol
Yes, I remember our old discussions about superiority of boots of running and how their 1.0->0.9 effect wins games for you. I wonder how Na wins games at all (even without Chei). Come on, speed is not that important for some characters. Just take a look at my Na of Chei who was wearing hat of pondering

* (race=naga) has won 626 times in 90657 games (0.69%)
* (race=centaur) has won 532 times in 38074 games (1.40%)

Centaurs and Nagas a fairly similar, although Nagas have better apts in every category except for bows and start with a ranged poison spit attack.
Centaurs win twice as often. Coincidence? I think not.

Does it negate my "speed is not that important for some characters"? Do Fe have second highest win rate after Sp?

Bad example btw It took me several months of crawl experience to win a Naxx and almost a year to win CeHu

[tasonir]

I don't think anyone's suggesting nagas aren't a challenge race; the thread is about how to survive with them, because playing a naga is cool, not easy

[Sar]

Fe are pretty good and I don't know how do you even lose a CeHu unless you got extremely unlucky and made a bad decision or just splatted out of boredom.