Which weapon should I use?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 33

Joined: Sunday, 26th December 2010, 16:00

Post Sunday, 26th December 2010, 16:14

Which weapon should I use?

It's the eternal question, isn't it? This thread is for those times when you just can't decide between awesome weapons and seek advice. I'll start first for my Demonspawn Venom Mage:

a +8, +6 lajatang of speed

vs.

the +6, +5 spear of Evisceration {freeze, +Blink, +Lev rElec rF+ SInv}

My Staves skill is at 12, Polearms is at 4. Note that they crosstrain with each other. Lajatang is better at damage dealing for sure but I'm primarily a spellcaster and those extra resistances and ability to blink away from trouble is nice. I carry them both but which one should I stick with?
Polyphemus throws a large rock.
Your +3 buckler of reflection reflects the large rock!
The large rock hits Polyphemus.
You kill Polyphemus!

Snake Sneak

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Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 07:48

Post Sunday, 26th December 2010, 17:31

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'd actually use the spear until you find the resistances you need. Also you can train fighting easier with it since you won't kill monsters that fast.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 26th December 2010, 18:05

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'd set the spear to "a" and walk around wielding it. Resistances, blink, and not getting ambushed by invisible monsters is worth it.

But there's no reason not to set the lajatang to "b" and use ' to toggle to it for pure mele situations (when you want the extra damage, and aren't concerned about resistances or escape). Then again, if you're using casting for your main damage dealing, this may not come up.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 18:23

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I've made this a sticky - it'll be a useful ongoing thread for exactly this discussion.
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Mines Malingerer

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Location: Japan

Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 23:15

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Keep both, wield the spear. Change it out for the lajatang before you start bashing.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Tuesday, 28th December 2010, 04:47

Re: Which weapon should I use?

chrysalis wrote:Keep both, wield the spear. Change it out for the lajatang before you start bashing.


Yeah I kept them both and changed to the spear whenever situation needed it. Doesn't matter because character is already dead though :P . Thanks everyone.
Polyphemus throws a large rock.
Your +3 buckler of reflection reflects the large rock!
The large rock hits Polyphemus.
You kill Polyphemus!

Lair Larrikin

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Joined: Friday, 24th December 2010, 21:00

Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 13:29

Re: Which weapon should I use?

So I'm in an... interesting situation. Good old Troggie just gifted me a +0,+7 Executor's Axe of Distortion. Thankfully I ID'd it with a scroll, but I'm currently wielding a +2, +5 Vampiric War Axe with a tick of cold resistance. I am using a shield, but the thing is, I'm really, really uncertain of the damage a distortion exec axe would do. Sure, blinking enemies around won't be good, but still. On the other hand, the vampiric ego is amazing! I'd neglected it somewhat, but it keeps me fed and healthy in skirmishes I really should be neither :)

Oh, I'm a lvl 18 MDBe with a 14 skill in axes. Help :)

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 13:45

Re: Which weapon should I use?

You'll get to a point where simply getting enemies out of the way is more important than the experience for killing them. Going for the silver rune in Vault:8 and the Zot run come to mind. At that point the distortion exec axe will beat the hell out of the vampiric war axe.
You fall off the wall. You have a feeling of ineptitude.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 14:06

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Well, I'm not really sure distortion is good for a melee character in Zot. I mean, I'm pretty certain the last thing I want in the world is to blink an ancient lich, or an orb of fire away from me :) But yeah, what you said does make sense and I might consider it for use then.

Fake edit : oh damn, I was going to say that I could always bless it when I switch over to TSO, but you can't really bless axes, can you :( Guess I'll wait for Trog to plop down something more appropriate.

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 14:18

Re: Which weapon should I use?

You can bless axes just fine, they just don't get their base stats enhanced like long blades or demon weapons. A blessed executioner's axe is a fantastic extended-endgame weapon, regardless.

For this message the author Kate has received thanks:
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 17:22

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Alright, I've gotten an High Elf Arcane Marksman to a decent spot, thanks to a sweet randart Longbow (+9, +3, venom, +2 EV, +2 INT) but I have a question about melee weapon. I found on D:1 a quarterstaff of speed (+0, +3 now with enchant scrolls) but I'm about to delve into the Elven Halls, where I know I can pick up a long blade. Should I make the melee switch now to long blades for better damage in the end game, or keep with the staff of speed and just enchant the hell out of it?
  Code:
Jory screams, "No, no!" before exploding into a cloud of blood!
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 17:34

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'd go with long blades. You'll have so much choice, and IMO speed is best on weapons with big base damage. You'll find a lot more randart blades than staves, and probably a long blade of speed at some point. I usually find several speed blades in a game.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:25

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Well that was a good strategy, but stupid Elven mage cast me into the Abyss. I know he's got no shot of surviving in there. Another promising start dashed.
  Code:
Jory screams, "No, no!" before exploding into a cloud of blood!
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 19:44

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Ok, so I wandered around in the Abyss and found an altar for Lugonu. If I worship him, can I get out of the Abyss, or should I keep looking?
  Code:
Jory screams, "No, no!" before exploding into a cloud of blood!
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 30th December 2010, 20:42

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Getting a bit off-topic here, but I think you need Piety *..... to be able to leave the abyss. Keep wandering diagonally and you will eventually find a portal.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 02:19

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Okay, here's a new weapon dilemna:

SpEn of Okawaru, Skill 10 in short blades, skill 4 in fighting, skill 1 in shields and have a +1 buckler of fire resistance.

I've cleared Orc and Hive.

My main weapon is either:
+7+0 dagger of venom
+3+3 short sword of electrocution

I use the dagger for stabbing, but which is better for regular melee? Of course, Oka will give me something else soon anyway.

However my real question is:
dagger of holy wrath, or
long sword of holy wrath?

HW is multiplicative, so it's better on the long sword, but I don't have the skill and I lose the buckler. Is there any point to a dagger of HW though?
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 04:40

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Thanks.

I did just turn off short blades. The venom blade was good in the hive, where everything is susceptible to poison, but I'll stick to the electric blade now for melee.

I just got a +2+4 dwarven dagger of venom that I'll use instead of the +7+0 one - dwarven quality and a bit better for melee - daggers don't really need +7 to hit.

Oh - I also got a +0 dagger of chaos off Psyche. Is that any good? I used it for a bit, it was kind of fun - sometimes it paralyzes or confuses, which then gives me a free stab.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 04:43

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Oooo! I just read an unidentified scroll and my +3 electric blade became +4+5!

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 06:45

Re: Which weapon should I use?

More base damage is better with speed, lower base damage and a faster weapon is better with electrocution, unless the enemy has rElec. Pain is generally considered the best all-around damage supporter on a fast weapon... if you get a ridiculously high necro skill in addition to it.

Holy wrath is good... but only against demons.

Freeze is good... unless the enemy has rCold.

Poison pretty much always sucks, though it's moderately useful in the early game as a hit-and-run tactic.

I don't think any brand stacks with stabbing, except maybe vampiric.


However, the end game inevitably becomes a clusterfuck of enemies who resist almost everything and situations you don't want to be in. Honestly, the game stops being fun right after you get to the 27th level of the dungeon. -_- For me, at least.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 06:58

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Holy wrath is also good vs. undead.

Brands indeed stack with stabbing, but apply after the stab, so they rarely appear, since stab damage is usually a oneshot on its own (great with multiplicative brands vs. high-hp enemies, e.g. holy wrath stabbing vs. panlords)

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 15:30

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Yeah, chaos is pretty crap.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 20:54

Re: Which weapon should I use?

szanth wrote:Yeah, chaos is pretty crap.


The one exception I've found to this: play an Orc Priest and give chaos branded stuff to your minions. Hilarity ensues.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 31st December 2010, 21:47

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I don't know, I used the chaos one a bit more and it never hasted or healed anything. It has however confused, paralyzed, blinked/banished, frozen, burned, and lightning bolted enemies.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Saturday, 1st January 2011, 00:30

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Yeah but it only takes one wrong haste/heal against the wrong enemy in the wrong situation and you're completely screwed.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 1st January 2011, 07:40

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Oh well, I died. Rupert on Lair 2 with a +3 great mace of crushing. One more shot and I would have had him. I was using the electric blade. I bet the chaos dagger would've paralyzed him.

Does monster MR apply to chaos weapon effects?
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Saturday, 1st January 2011, 08:15

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I would use a chaos weapon if I didn't care about winning. It's a fun brand. I don't think MR applies, since it works on monsters with near-immunity to hostile enchantments.

Snake Sneak

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Post Saturday, 1st January 2011, 22:15

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Merfolk berserker, Trog gave some nice weapons and I really can't choose what to use as a main weapon. Also, i can't decide should I use my buckler or not

  Code:
 
e - a +2,+2 demon trident of reaching (weapon) {god gift}
 g - the +4,+8 scythe of Xeac {god gift, venom, rF+}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   It protects you from fire.
 v - the +3,+3 spear of Irrepressible Laughter {god gift, antimagic, SInv}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)   
   It disrupts the flow of magical energy around spellcasters and certain
   magical creatures (including the wielder).
   It enhances your eyesight.
 S - a +6,+1 anti-magic glaive {god gift}
 
and

 F - a +2 buckler

and skills

+ Level 7 Fighting
 + Level 18 Polearms

 - Level 6 Dodging
 - Level 2 Shields

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Saturday, 1st January 2011, 22:20

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'd turn off Polearms and use the demon trident with the buckler.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 01:13

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Which is sad to me. For some reason I want the scythe to be really good.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:54

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'm kind of looking forward to the possibility of Scythe of Curses with the new god of curses!

Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 3rd January 2011, 00:46

Re: Which weapon should I use?

minmay wrote:I second that, demon tridents are the only really good polearms.


Bardiches are the highest base damage weapon that you are actually guaranteed to find in a typical game (ex. axe and triple sword are better, but show up one out of 3 games or so). They require a ton of weapon skill to get the delay down, but that isn't a problem if you are playing a Merfolk with +4 Polearms. The other two handed polearms are pretty bad though.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 04:21

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Okay, just started a HEAE, and on D:1 I've found a +1 dagger of speed and a vampiric dagger (don't know the enchantment).

Now, this is not a melee build, typically the dagger will only come out to train fighting or to finish things once I'm out of MP. In this case, what's better - the healing effect of the vampiric dagger, or the doubled attacks of speed?
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 04:25

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Definitely speed. You do not want vampiric on a sometimes weapon- especially not one you're toggling to. You're burning hunger.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 04:30

Re: Which weapon should I use?

HEAE is a nice start for hybrids, what with all the utility spells; I'd definitely hybridise. As for which weapon, I'd take speed; vampiric is only really good when you're doing a lot of damage per attack, and the only time daggers do that is when stabbing, at which point you're usually already at high hp, unless you're playing funkily or cannot regenerate.

Temple Termagant

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Post Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 04:45

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Lvl 20 KoBe

- a +5,+0 dagger of speed (quivered) {god gift}
- the +0,+6 sabre "Unydi" {god gift, elec, rC++}
- the +1,+11 dagger of Geutej {god gift, stab, rPois rF-}
- a +0,+3 sabre of holy wrath {god gift}
- the -5,+2 short sword of Division {god gift, freeze, +Rage rElec Dex+1}
- a +4,+9 elven sabre of venom (weapon) {god gift}


So far I have mostly been using the venomed sabre, switching to the HW sabre for UD/Demons, and used Unydi in EH for the rC++. Soon the venomed sabre will be quite useless and I'm not sure what my main shall be. Probably Unydi. I have a couple of scrolls in my stash for some number improving. Just cleared Swamps; EH will be done as soon as I have an attack plan vs the lava moa; missing deepest lvl in Shoals.


  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.8.0-a0-4271-g90aec3c character file.

Bibbi Snurr the Acrobat (Kobold Berserker)                         Turns: 63926, Time: 06:40:09

HP 141/141 (148) AC 14     Str 18      Exp: 20/291659 (348), need: 61341
MP  21/21        EV 35     Int  5      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2077        SH 24     Dex 24      Spells:  0 memorised, 21 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : +   P - +4,+9 elf sabre (venom) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   O - +3 leather armour of Ladders and Snakes {r
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   q - +1 dwarf buckler {rflct}
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .   a - +3 helmet of the Komodo Dragon {Dex+2}
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .   t - +1 cloak
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .   Z - +0 pair of orc gloves
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   Q - amulet of faith
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   w - ring of Pryoz {rPois rF++ Stlth+}
Saprovore : + + .   Ctrl.Flight: .   x - ring "Xeleax" {Wiz rN+ SInv}

@: extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: carnivore 3, saprovore 2
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are very full.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 52 of its levels.

You have collected 3567 gold pieces.
You have spent 1510 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 e - a +5,+0 dagger of speed (quivered) {god gift}
 l - the +0,+6 sabre "Unydi" {god gift, elec, rC++}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
 m - the +1,+11 dagger of Geutej {god gift, stab, rPois rF-}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Elven Halls)   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from poison.
 s - a +0,+3 sabre of holy wrath {god gift}
 F - the -5,+2 short sword of Division {god gift, freeze, +Rage rElec Dex+1}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Swamp)   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you go berserk.
 P - a +4,+9 elven sabre of venom (weapon) {god gift}
Armour
 a - the +3 helmet of the Komodo Dragon (worn) {Dex+2}
   (You acquired it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 q - a +1 dwarven buckler of reflection (worn)
 t - a +1 cloak (worn)
 O - the +3 leather armour of Ladders and Snakes (worn) {rElec MR SInv}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 Z - a +0 pair of orcish gloves (worn)
Magical devices
 g - a wand of frost (10)
 k - a wand of disintegration
 B - a wand of digging {zapped: 3}
 G - a wand of enslavement
 H - a wand of flame {zapped: 4}
 M - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 14}
 R - a wand of draining {zapped: 6}
Comestibles
 c - 2 meat rations
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of summoning
 f - 3 scrolls of fog
 h - a scroll of detect curse
 r - a scroll of magic mapping
 D - 3 scrolls of blinking
 J - 2 scrolls of recharging
 L - a scroll of fear
 N - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 T - a scroll of teleportation
Jewellery
 j - an uncursed amulet of rage
 u - an uncursed ring of levitation
 v - an uncursed ring of invisibility
 w - the ring of Pryoz (right hand) {rPois rF++ Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 x - the ring "Xeleax" (left hand) {Wiz rN+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 I - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 Q - an amulet of faith (around neck)
Potions
 d - 2 potions of heal wounds
 i - a potion of healing
 n - a potion of levitation
 o - 2 potions of agility
 z - a potion of might
 A - a potion of speed
 E - a potion of restore abilities
Miscellaneous
 p - a decaying rune of Zot


 You have 348 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 17 Fighting
 - Level 13 Short Blades
 - Level 3 Maces & Flails
 + Level 6 Armour
 + Level 21 Dodging
 - Level 5 Stealth
 - Level 4 Stabbing
 + Level 11 Shields
 + Level 4 Traps & Doors
 + Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 5 Evocations


You have 21 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (21/27)            Temple (0/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (7/7) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:12          Swamp (5/5) Lair:2
 Shoals (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:6         Hive (2/2) D:14
  Vault (0/8) D:16       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Makhleb
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Beogh

Shops:
D:11: [  D:14: *  D:17: /  Orc:4: +=[  Elf:4: *  Elf:6: (  Shoals:1: ([

Portals:
Hell: D:21
Abyss: D:21
Trove: D:21 (+2 robe of resistance)
Ziggurat: D:5 (3880 gp)
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 14:35

Re: Which weapon should I use?

@Wravburn

the +0,+6 sabre "Unydi" {god gift, elec, rC++}

Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 20:42

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Forgive me if this is the wrong place or is a totally dumbass question, but what exactly do the racial modifiers do for weapons? Tying it into the topic here, if I have a regular +1,+1 short sword and a +1,+1 short sword with any of the three racial qualities should I always use the racial one?
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 21:02

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Racial modifiers give a small bonus if you're using a weapon forged by your own race. For the most part, it's insignificant.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2011, 06:58

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Okay:

HaBe,
Short blades 9,
Long blades 8,
Shields 8.

Trog just gifted me the -1, +4 Katana "Jyocyepn" {holy, rF+, rN+, +Rage} (Question - why would Trog gift a +Rage weapon? Is he encouraging me to make it on my own?)

The big downside is that I have to give up my buckler to use it :(

I'm wanting to transition to long blades but so far my best LB is a +2,+1 long sword of slicing or a +0,+2 scimitar of flaming. EDIT: I just got a +4 long sword of Abomination {speed, rF+, Str -3}

My go-to short blades are:
+3,+8 elven quick blade (I'm hoping to vorpalize it)
+0,+3 sabre of electrocution

So: is the katana better than the quick blade (for demon fights, is it worth unstrapping my buckler to wield this katana? my only other holy blade is a +1 orc falchion.)
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2011, 14:08

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I would use the long sword of speed with a buckler. The strength penalty won't cripple you, since you started as a berserker. If you want to go for a 15 rune victory definitively use that katana. :)

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 6th January 2011, 17:49

Re: Which weapon should I use?

As I understand it, part of the halfling's tankishness and general strength is that he can dodge and block almost anything. Taking away his buckler removes half that power, which I don't see as entirely worth it. Also that long sword is good if you can afford the strength penalty.
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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 320

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:02

Post Thursday, 6th January 2011, 20:08

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Which weapon should I bless? A demon blade or a demon whip? I'm leaning towards getting a sacred scourge.

Edit: Got the scourge.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 32

Joined: Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 18:52

Post Thursday, 6th January 2011, 20:09

Re: Which weapon should I use?

If I have a weapon with a -CAST attribute, can I still get spellcasting 1 by reading scrolls?

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 13:38

Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 08:52

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Lugh wrote:If I have a weapon with a -CAST attribute, can I still get spellcasting 1 by reading scrolls?

Sure.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 12

Joined: Wednesday, 5th January 2011, 22:11

Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 10:38

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'm a lvl 17 HaBE of Trog and i'm torn on what of his weapons gift to use i have never had so many strong weapons before so i dont really know what is best.

B - a +4,+8 anti-magic katana (weapon) {god gift}
P - a +4,+4 double sword of holy wrath {god gift}

I have never had a anti-magic weapon before how useful is that brand?

I also have some shields of reflection in my stash how good are they? is it worth it tp try to find a single handed weapon for the extra protection of shields?
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