How to play a transmuter ?

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 15:56 by tompliss

Hey guys,

I am currently playing transmuters. To be fair, I am currently killing transmuters.
I can't figure how to keep them alive at the level 7-10 (or even earlier, for octopodes).

My goal is to get a character with dragon form online and useful for him.

I have been trying mostly Demonspawn and Draconians (because their intrinsics seem to fit them well), and more recently a formicid, an Octopode, a centaur, and a merfolk.

My usual characters are mostly tanky non-caster (at least before lair) melee characters (a DD, Gr, and Fo in heavy armors and a classic Mf gladiator).
I want to different gameplay, but I feel like EVERY mistake I make with transmuter kills me. And god knows I make mistakes.

Is there a usual skill build (or maybe race specific ones for the races I mentionned) ?
I usually focused on UC at first to level 4-5, then Transmut for StS at 10% and spider form at 20-25%, then focusing back on UC * and dodging + for a bit, then going back to transmut * and spellcasting + to get Blade Hands at 20% (in the rare cases I stayed alive until then).

About gods, I was thinking about going for Jyiva, but I can surely afford some early help. Ashenzari if I find an early buckler ? otherwise, Okawaru for the +5 UC +5 dodging ? Nemelex for the utility (and the decks from weapon sacrifice and armor sacrifice for octo/drac) ?

Any general advice for transmuters ?

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 16:48 by Jarlyk

You might find it interesting to play as a Felid Transmuter. You have a lot of speed to disengage from fights that aren't going well (which is pretty often) and the extra lives add an interesting mechanic to make up for their ridiculously low HP and AC. It's a little weird, but it can actually be kinda fun skulking around the dungeon and pouncing on things. I always get this image in my mind of a harmless house cat creeping up, then suddenly turning into a viscous beast with massive blades for hands and slaughtering you in two hits. It's good for laughs if nothing else. The main downside is the risk of getting killed by hobgoblins or rats right outside the entrance, before you've built up your killing power (a cat being killed by a rat is just embarrassing...)

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 17:40 by Sandman25

I am not a good Tm player but I noticed unID-ed potions along with scrolls of identify, death to normal speed melee monsters in spider form (retreat if it becomes dangerous), working on Spider Form too early, too low dodging.

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 17:47 by Wahaha

Use spider form a lot. It's fast so you can run away from almost everything. It raises EV by a lot and is an improvement in defenses from the point a character learns it until some point in Lair.

Okawaru is most likely the best god for a character that uses UC because increasing UC by 5 at 1 * is too good. Ashenzari is probably not a good choice and neither is using a buckler unless it has resists or +dam. If you want early help Fedhas is a great choice.

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 18:08 by Klown

Spriggan

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 18:26 by jejorda2

If you curse a two-handed weapon and then fight in forms, you get bonus UC damage from Ash, right?

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 18:32 by BlackSheep

jejorda2 wrote:If you curse a two-handed weapon and then fight in forms, you get bonus UC damage from Ash, right?

No.

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 19:04 by Volteccer_Jack

Your skilling sounds good to me, although getting good UC/Dodging is more important than getting Blade Hands.

Transmuter has a bit of a difficulty hump around those levels, due to needing a lot of XP to get the character fully "online". Okawaru and Fedhas are very good Tm gods for this reason; Heroism gives you a shortcut to being good, and wandering mushrooms take care of everything scary while you train to be good.

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013, 19:06 by mikee

I don't have time for a long reply, but I can tell you that you are overtraining spell skills. Also, your centaur died to a jelly by itself? =P

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 08:09 by sanka

My advice:

1. Draconian, merfolk are good. DS is a little bit harder in the begining, but can be also good. I would not start to learn Tm with octopode and especially not with felid. Octopodes are actually ok, Felids are horrible.
If I would like to learn dragon form later, I would still choose draconian.
2. Train only transmutations, memorize stick to snakes, and use them on anything you do not want to melee. I'm not sure it's still true, but it used to work on halberds etc. and create stronger snakes.
3. On level 3, memorize spider form, train 1-2 point of poison. Train transmutaion till spider form is around 20% failure rate. Use spider form a lot: escaping, kiting, in every fight.
4. Train UC, probably to 10.
5. Train dodging. I usually aim ~20 ev (without spider form).
5. Go back to magic skills, learn ice form and blade hands. You do not need 1% failure rate, but I usually try to be in grey colour (hoping I won't get a sever miscast, because transmutation miscasts are bad.) Learn when to use which form.
6. Train dodging, fighting and UC, I usually train them at least 15. Train invocation if your god needs it. Learn Haste, repel missiles, regeneration.

Take Oka, Makhleb or Fedhas. With Oka, spam heroism. With makhleb, train some invocations (I usually train it first to at least 8, and later higher), and do not use greater servant for a long time till you can escape from a hostile executioner. Always summon *before* the battle, and simply escape if the summon is hostile. With fedhas use the mushrooms. Always have some with you. Also for end vaults etc. use your fruit. You do not need to stash them till Zot 5.

Jiyva is good, but I would not wait till Lair 7 for a god, especially not if I have problems around level 7-10. If you happen to find an early altar, you may take him. If you take him, do not forget to use slimify. It's very very strong.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 10:53 by A spy

I think you should consider playing a Demigod Tm. They have very good HP and no useful mutation, their high INT means you should need to spend less exp in magic skills (easier to focus on UC) while STR/DEX help your evasion and forms damage.

Furthermore, it will help you get used to the Tm playstyle without relying on any particular god (that being said, Fedhas is very good in the early game on any non-DG thanks to mushrooms!).

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 13:09 by tompliss

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I am tryinga bit more today, and my 7th Merfolk is doing good for now :

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1297-g3d87a2a (webtiles) character file. TomPliss the Martial Artist (Merfolk Transmuter) Turns: 10407, Time: 00:47:38 HP 59/59 AC 4 Str 10 XL: 9 Next: 33% MP 20/20 EV 18 Int 13 God: Gold 306 SH 0 Dex 17 Spells: 5 memorised, 4 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold . . . Clarity . c - +0 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (helmet restricted) rElec . rRot . F - +1 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves) rMut . Warding . (no boots) Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet) K - ring of poison resistance H - ring of flight @: appendage, slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy A: change form in water, swift swim, horns 2 a: End Transformation, Evoke Flight You are on level 7 of the Dungeon. You are not hungry. You have grown temporary horns. You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 10 of its levels. You have collected 306 gold pieces. Inventory: Hand weapons n - a +2,+2 sling of frost u - a +2,+3 halberd of pain M - a +0,+0 bow Missiles p - 115 stones (quivered) q - 15 sling bullets z - 3 darts of frost A - 12 poisoned needles D - 3 tomahawks of returning I - a throwing net O - 22 arrows Armour c - a +0 robe (worn) r - a +0 elven scale mail F - a +1 cloak (worn) Comestibles a - 2 chunks of goblin flesh t - 2 meat rations v - a royal jelly P - 6 rotting chunks of centaur flesh Scrolls e - 4 scrolls of remove curse m - 4 scrolls of identify s - 4 scrolls of teleportation C - a scroll of random uselessness G - 3 scrolls of noise N - 4 scrolls of blinking Jewellery H - a ring of flight (left hand) K - a ring of poison resistance (right hand) Potions b - a smoky pink potion f - a potion of porridge g - a potion of lignification i - a potion of curing j - a purple potion k - 2 potions of heal wounds l - a lumpy inky potion E - a blue potion Books d - a book of Changes Spells Type Level *Beastly Appendage Transmutation 1 *Sticks to Snakes Transmutation 2 *Spider Form Transmutation/Poison 3 Ice Form Ice/Transmutation 4 *Blade Hands Transmutation 5 L - a book of Party Tricks Spells Type Level Summon Butterflies Summoning 1 Apportation Translocation 1 *Blink Translocation 2 Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 4 Tukima's Dance Hexes 5 Miscellaneous J - a plain deck of cards Skills: - Level 1.1 Fighting - Level 8.1 Dodging - Level 8.1 Unarmed Combat + Level 4.9 Spellcasting - Level 1.2 Translocations * Level 7.6 Transmutations - Level 2.5 Poison Magic You have 4 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Beastly Appendage Trmt ###... 1% 1 None b - Sticks to Snakes Trmt ###....... 1% 2 ##..... c - Spider Form Trmt/Pois ###....... 10% 3 ###.... d - Blade Hands Trmt ###....... 28% 5 #####.. e - Blink Tloc N/A 17% 2 ##..... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (9/16) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc: D:9-12 Lair: D:8-11 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4 = Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You revert to your normal form in water.* You are very nimble and swift while swimming.* You have a pair of horns on your head.* Message History No target in view! No target in view! Things that are here: an orcish club; a goblin corpse You start butchering the goblin corpse with your knife. You continue butchering the corpse. You finish chopping the goblin corpse into pieces. a - 2 chunks of goblin flesh Things that are here: a goblin skeleton; an orcish club An orc comes into view. It is wielding an orcish short sword. Found a stone staircase leading up. An orc is nearby! There is a stone staircase leading up here. You climb upwards. There is a stone staircase leading down here. You climb downwards. There is a stone staircase leading up here. Char dumped successfully. Saving game... please wait. #.#######.....#####...########. #.# #.....# #...# #.# +.....# #...# #.# #.....# #...# #.# #.....# #...# #.# #.....# #.%.# #.# #.....# #..<# #.# #.....#####...###### #.# +.....@.............. #.# #..#############.... #.# ... #.. .o #.. #.. #... #.. There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Grinder (D:3) Edmund (D:5) An orc warrior (D:6) 2 ice beasts 2 sky beasts 2 centaurs 2 ogres (D:6) A giant frog (D:6) 5 crimson imps A giant frog zombie (D:5) 3 orc priests A hound (D:5) Crazy Yiuf (D:4) 2 jellies An orc wizard (D:4) An iguana (D:4) 2 scorpions 4 worker ants A hound zombie (D:5) 5 adders 4 gnolls A giant mite (D:6) A worm (D:4) 3 giant eyeballs 5 giant geckos 3 oozes 10 orcs 3 ball pythons 6 giant cockroaches 14 goblins 15 hobgoblins 13 jackals 6 quokkas 17 bats 3 giant newts A giant spore (D:6) A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4) 18 kobolds 19 rats 2 rat zombies (D:6) 4 ballistomycetes (D:6) 188 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) An ogre (D:5) A goliath beetle (D:5) An orc wizard (D:4) An ogre zombie (D:5) A mummy (D:6) 4 gnolls (D:4) 4 orcs 2 jackals (D:6) 15 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A giant newt (D:3) A giant spore (D:6) 2 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 205 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | TomPliss, the Merfolk Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/3 192 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/21 MP: 4/4 223 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 666 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/26 MP: 6/6 1297 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes 1301 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form 1404 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 1893 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/32 MP: 7/7 2754 | D:2 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/37 MP: 7/9 3156 | D:3 | Noticed Grinder 3392 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns 3419 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 3699 | D:3 | Killed Grinder 3699 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 25/43 MP: 2/12 4657 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 5413 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 15/48 MP: 14/14 5728 | D:4 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 5975 | D:4 | Found Voraf's Jewellery Shop. 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 6311 | D:4 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 6334 | D:4 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 6543 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6800 | D:5 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7135 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 7143 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 7367 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 7408 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/54 MP: 16/16 7733 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 7893 | D:5 | Noticed Edmund 7931 | D:5 | Killed Edmund 7991 | D:5 | Got a slimy leather armour 8097 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging 8277 | D:4 | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour "Xoirae" {rF+ Dex+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 8322 | D:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands 8325 | D:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 8572 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8581 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8820 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations 8972 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations 9126 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/59 MP: 17/20 9729 | D:6 | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors! Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 150 | 216 | 403 || 769 Halberd | | | 11 || 11 Throw: Stone | | | 6 || 6 Cast: Beastly Appendage | 7 | 25 | 31 || 63 Sticks to Snakes | | 20 | 38 || 58 Spider Form | | 1 | 16 || 17 Abil: End Transformatio | | 1 | 4 || 5 Use: Potion | | 2 | 3 || 5 Scroll | | | 12 || 12 Stab: Sleeping | | 3 | 2 || 5 Distracted | | | 2 || 2

There are still critical situations (I nearly shouted at my computer when falling this 3 levels shaft, but Spider form and a scroll of TP got me out of there), but I think that i'm doing better than before, thanks to your answers.
I have a few problems with this run :
- No Okawaru altar in the temple or anywhere else (first 6 levels completely explored)
- Very few arrows found (I have only the 20 I found on my last centaur a few turns ago), and no javelins

Should I go back to the alter a worship another god ?
I don't really feel the lack of a god, even if I think I would use much less StS if I had a free +5 UC +5 dodging

About that, I use maybe too much StS, especially as I poke some ennemies when they are constricted by pythons with my halberd (especially ogre and giant beetles, which can deal really high damage in one hit)...

I am learning to use Spider form much more than before, and backing in Spider form to choose my battlefield and summon some Snakes when there is a real threat.
Using the different abilities against the different types of monsters, buffering with a wall of snakes when there is a group of orc, to poison the priests then go out of their view, kiting the ogres and other uniques without ranged options, rushing centaurs or using snakes as a cover, ...
That's really different from a classic fighter, and that's clearly more fun, even if more difficult.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 14:01 by nago

No need to wait an altar to spawn when you have a very good alterneative - both makhleb and fedhas are an excellent choice. Nemelex would be extremely strong too, but he begin to shine only after long time (pretty much around late Lair), so if you have a lot of problems to survive the former two are better.

Next time don't rush for blade hands, instead learn ice form and train some ice magic (4ish with mf cost nothing) - it's a much better spell until lair.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 14:10 by tompliss

I though the Ice Form was too much a "pause" spell between Spider form and Blade Hands, but the bonus HP/AC and the freezing branded attacks should be a nice help to reach and clear Lair.

About gods, I don't really like Makhleb (with StS I don't want to cast the destructions on my summons), and have nearly no food (only meet & bread) so I would not get all of fedhas's power ... :/

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 14:19 by nago

Makhleb is extremely powerful, actually more than Oka - his bigger benefits are hp on kills and greater servant, and you shouldn't worry to much about sts, it will be obsolete by the time you can use greater destruction.

Ice form isn't a "pause" at all - by the time you should be able to cast, it provides better defences than blade hands (because you probably haven't trained dodging of fighting yet) and freeze brand helps a lot against the most dangerous enemy in lair (spiny frogs, black mambas, hydras...). Plus, its resistances are useful in some places or against some enemies - snakes, aizul, etc...

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 14:26 by sanka

I found the early game much easier till I do not decide which god to follow in advance, instead I take the first altar which is good for my current character. For a transmuter for me these are Oka, Makhleb, and Fedhas, maybe Yred. You need their help early the most.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 22:09 by tompliss

Well apparently, the advice is working.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1297-g3d87a2a (webtiles) character file. TomPliss the Martial Artist (Merfolk Transmuter) Turns: 16036, Time: 01:34:24 HP 59/70 AC 4 Str 11 XL: 11 Next: 25% MP 26/26 EV 20 Int 13 God: Makhleb [***...] Gold 585 SH 0 Dex 17 Spells: 6 memorised, 7 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold . . . Clarity . c - +0 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . F - +1 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves) rMut . Warding . (no boots) Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet) K - ring of poison resistance W - +0,+5 ring of slaying @: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy A: change form in water, swift swim a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Makhleb. Makhleb is most pleased with you. You are hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 12 of its levels. You have collected 585 gold pieces. Inventory: Hand weapons n - a +2,+2 sling of frost (You took it off a goblin on level 4 of the Dungeon) u - a +2,+3 halberd of pain (You took it off a gnoll on level 2 of the Dungeon) B - a +1,+0 elven bow (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) Missiles b - 21 arrows p - 44 stones (quivered) C - 5 javelins D - 3 tomahawks of returning I - a throwing net U - 5 tomahawks Armour c - a +0 robe (worn) r - a +0 elven scale mail (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) F - a +1 cloak (worn) (You took it off Crazy Yiuf on level 4 of the Dungeon) Magical devices o - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) M - a wand of fire {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) Comestibles a - 2 chokos t - 4 meat rations v - a royal jelly w - 2 bread rations Scrolls e - 3 scrolls of remove curse g - a scroll labeled XICHOU SMAL h - a scroll labeled CLAWEYMNAMOO m - 4 scrolls of identify s - 2 scrolls of teleportation y - a scroll labeled ZUACHA QA HEMP G - 3 scrolls of noise N - 4 scrolls of blinking R - a scroll of fog V - a scroll labeled ROSEETO LUOR Jewellery i - an uncursed ring of sustenance (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) H - an uncursed ring of flight (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon) K - a ring of poison resistance (right hand) (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) Q - a +4 ring of intelligence (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon) W - a +0,+5 ring of slaying (left hand) (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) Potions f - a potion of porridge j - a purple potion l - a lumpy inky potion x - a potion of heal wounds E - a blue potion O - a smoky pink potion S - a sedimented silvery potion T - a slimy yellow potion Books d - a book of Changes Spells Type Level *Beastly Appendage Transmutation 1 *Sticks to Snakes Transmutation 2 *Spider Form Transmutation/Poison 3 *Ice Form Ice/Transmutation 4 *Blade Hands Transmutation 5 L - a book of Party Tricks (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon) Spells Type Level Summon Butterflies Summoning 1 Apportation Translocation 1 *Blink Translocation 2 Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 4 Tukima's Dance Hexes 5 P - a book of Wizardry (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon) Spells Type Level Summon Elemental Summoning 4 Agony Necromancy 5 Force Lance Conjuration 5 Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 Haste Charms 6 Invisibility Hexes 6 Miscellaneous J - a plain deck of cards (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) Skills: - Level 1.1 Fighting - Level 10.4 Dodging - Level 11.3 Unarmed Combat - Level 7.1 Spellcasting - Level 1.2 Translocations + Level 9.1 Transmutations - Level 5.1 Ice Magic - Level 2.5 Poison Magic * Level 0.0 Invocations You have 7 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Beastly Appendage Trmt ####.. 1% 1 None b - Sticks to Snakes Trmt ####...... 1% 2 #...... c - Spider Form Trmt/Pois ###....... 4% 3 ###.... d - Blade Hands Trmt ####...... 12% 5 #####.. e - Blink Tloc N/A 14% 2 #...... f - Ice Form Ice/Trmt ###....... 12% 4 ####... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (10/16) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (1/8) D:9 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4 = Annotations: Lair:1 Fannar Message History You feel your health improve. You start resting. Your transformation is almost over. Casting: Ice Form Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Okay, then. Unknown command. Casting: Ice Form Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Okay, then. You start resting. Magic restored. You start resting. You warm up again. Your +1 cloak unmelds from your body. Your +0 robe unmelds from your body. w - 2 bread rations (gained 1) Found a scroll of blinking. Fannar comes into view. He is wielding a staff of cold. Char dumped successfully. Saving game... please wait. ... #.##...## #.#. .. #.##....# # #. #.##...### #. #..#...#.###.# # ##. #.##.......... ##.##.. #.##...#####.## .......###.#...## # .........##.###.# ........@.......# ##.####.###.P#### #. #.## #. #.. .. .?.. .. ...... ##e#....... ......... . ... You can see Fannar. Vanquished Creatures A centaur warrior (D:9) 3 spiny frogs (Lair:1) Grinder (D:3) A komodo dragon (Lair:1) A two-headed ogre (D:8) A troll (D:9) A hippogriff (Lair:1) 2 hungry ghosts Edmund (D:5) A porcupine (Lair:1) A mottled dragon (D:9) 2 dwarves (D:9) A black bear (D:8) 3 orc warriors 3 ice beasts 4 sky beasts 2 centaurs 3 crocodiles 8 ogres Blork the orc (D:7) A water moccasin (Lair:1) An agate snail (Lair:1) 4 giant frogs 16 killer bees 2 goliath beetles 7 crimson imps A giant frog zombie (D:5) 6 orc priests A gnoll shaman (D:8) 3 hounds Crazy Yiuf (D:4) 2 jellies 3 orc wizards 3 iguanas 3 scorpions A two-headed ogre skeleton (D:8) 6 worker ants An ogre skeleton (D:7) A hound zombie (D:5) 9 adders 8 gnolls 2 giant mites 2 worms An adder skeleton (D:7) 5 giant eyeballs 8 giant geckos 3 oozes 27 orcs 3 ball pythons 6 giant cockroaches 16 goblins 18 hobgoblins 14 jackals 10 quokkas 19 bats A giant mite zombie (D:8) 3 giant newts A giant spore (D:6) A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4) A hobgoblin zombie (D:7) 18 kobolds A quokka zombie (D:9) 21 rats 2 rat zombies (D:6) 4 ballistomycetes (D:6) 308 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) Menkaure (D:7) An ogre (D:5) A goliath beetle (D:5) An orc wizard (D:4) An ogre zombie (D:5) A mummy (D:6) 4 gnolls (D:4) 4 orcs 2 jackals (D:6) 16 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A giant newt (D:3) A giant spore (D:6) 2 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 326 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | TomPliss, the Merfolk Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/3 192 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/21 MP: 4/4 223 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 666 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/26 MP: 6/6 1297 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes 1301 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form 1404 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 1893 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/32 MP: 7/7 2754 | D:2 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/37 MP: 7/9 3156 | D:3 | Noticed Grinder 3392 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns 3419 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 3699 | D:3 | Killed Grinder 3699 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 25/43 MP: 2/12 4657 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 5413 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 15/48 MP: 14/14 5728 | D:4 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 5975 | D:4 | Found Voraf's Jewellery Shop. 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 6311 | D:4 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 6334 | D:4 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 6543 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6800 | D:5 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7135 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 7143 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 7367 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 7408 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/54 MP: 16/16 7733 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 7893 | D:5 | Noticed Edmund 7931 | D:5 | Killed Edmund 7991 | D:5 | Got a slimy leather armour 8097 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging 8277 | D:4 | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour "Xoirae" {rF+ Dex+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 8322 | D:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands 8325 | D:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 8572 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8581 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8820 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations 8972 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations 9126 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/59 MP: 17/20 9729 | D:6 | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors! 10427 | D:7 | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 10698 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Makhleb the Destroyer 10844 | D:7 | Reached skill level 2 in Ice Magic 11234 | D:7 | Reached skill level 3 in Ice Magic 11364 | D:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Ice Magic 11797 | D:7 | Noticed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 11886 | D:7 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 11899 | D:7 | Acquired Makhleb's first power 12024 | D:7 | Noticed Menkaure 12043 | D:7 | Killed Menkaure 12263 | D:7 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 12263 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 17/65 MP: 19/22 12720 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 12830 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging 13069 | D:8 | Acquired Makhleb's second power 13279 | D:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 14388 | D:9 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 14395 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 14440 | D:9 | Noticed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Killed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 14810 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14815 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14854 | D:9 | Acquired Makhleb's third power 15038 | D:9 | Reached skill level 8 in Transmutations 15173 | D:9 | Paralysed by you for 3 turns 15257 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 15340 | D:9 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 29/70 MP: 16/24 15569 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting 15959 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 9 in Transmutations 15988 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting 16035 | Lair:1 | Noticed Fannar Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 150 | 216 | 571 | 334 || 1271 Halberd | | | 11 | || 11 Throw: Stone | | | 16 | 7 || 23 Cast: Beastly Appendage | 7 | 25 | 47 | 20 || 99 Sticks to Snakes | | 20 | 42 | 4 || 66 Spider Form | | 1 | 18 | 6 || 25 Ice Form | | | 5 | 16 || 21 Blink | | | | 3 || 3 Blade Hands | | | | 1 || 1 Abil: End Transformatio | | 1 | 6 | 2 || 9 Evoke: Wand | | | | 2 || 2 Use: Potion | | 2 | 7 | || 9 Scroll | | | 12 | 3 || 15 Stab: Sleeping | | 3 | 3 | 1 || 7 Distracted | | | 2 | 1 || 3

I didn't went further in the dungeon as I met a floor with all stairs groupped, and a group of orcs, a group of gnolls, and a least one ogre with GSC there.
I am currently visiting the lair, but met Fannar, and woke him up. I think I'll just spider form and get away, maybe going further in the lair to get some more XP...

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 22:14 by Sandman25

You can kill Fannar in Ice Form if needed.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 22:32 by nago

That, plus you can soon stop to train transmutation (10ish% in bh is a decent failure rate for now), and start raising fighting which is painfully low.
Generally speaking, you have overtrained spellcasting by this point (you don't need to lower hunger cost for now, the value you need is the necessary to learn all the useful spell). Personally, I'd have postponed dodging training too - relying on ice form intrinsic bonus - to raise a bit more UC, fighting, and invo.

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 23:09 by tompliss

I raised spellcasting recently to be able to learn Ice form and I kept it on, as I did nearly every fight (those with "yellow" threats) with spider/ice, increasing my hunger really quickly. but I've looked at the Spell Hunger table from the wiki, and I'll clearly stop training it as it won't have any real impact for a while.
I trained dodging (instead of fighting) because of the +3 from merfolk, mainly, and because of my investment in Dex. I think it's high enough for now, indeed.
I'll focus my next skill training on invocations until I get 4-5% fail on the minor spells then go for fighting until I need something else (maybe some UC next).

I don't know whether I'll go for a kill on Fannar, as I usually handle him with characters handling the other lair's threats easier, and wait for more levels to kill him. I know I have ice form reducing his damage output greatly but ... :/

Wednesday, 4th December 2013, 23:17 by Sandman25

Perhaps I can't use Makhleb effectively but I don't train Invocation before my character has all important skills at 15+. It is hard to use his abilities at low Invocation as destruction can miss target and always hurts player (especially important for low XL characters who basically have low HP) and servants can be hostile. And unlike with Ely it is a bad idea to have Invocation higher than other skills because you cannot rely on it for killing.

Thursday, 5th December 2013, 00:13 by nago

I often train invo before dodging/arnour , and along with fighting because I find having a couple of friendly 2 is much better than having 4 more ac/eV.
Sure you can't be certain with summon demons , but as long you have 10+ and 1 tele scroll left you can easily spam it

Thursday, 5th December 2013, 01:50 by Sandman25

nago wrote:I often train invo before dodging/arnour , and along with fighting because I find having a couple of friendly 2 is much better than having 4 more ac/eV.
Sure you can't be certain with summon demons , but as long you have 10+ and 1 tele scroll left you can easily spam it

So what's your typical Armour/Dodging/AC/EV when you have Invocation 10+?

Thursday, 5th December 2013, 02:39 by diviton

I've won with an Octopode Transmuter before, but it was very difficult compared to the other combos I've played. This was a long time ago, but I'll give you advise based on what I remember.

- Spider Form is your friend. It's pretty good for battle, but amazing for survival. Use it whenever you need to run.

- Ice Form is also great for a nice AC bonus and freezing against those nasty snakes that you can't run away from.

- Blade hands can give you some massive damage but if you're playing an OP like I was, it's still risky because of how damned squishy they are.

- Sticks to Snakes is great for swarming powerful enemies early on. You'd be surprised what an almost endless army of snakes can kill.

- As for God, I worshipped Yredelemnul. I'm not saying he's the best God for the job, but he's the one I felt like playing and he made the entire middle game unbelievably easy. The beginning as an Octopode is very tough and by the time I got to Lair, surviving became very challenging. However, an amulet of faith and an early Yredelemnul was all I needed to survive the Lair apparently. I can't overstate how useful it is to have a Profane Servitor, some Ghouls and Bone Dragons by the time you're halfway down the Lair. The fact that they are permanent allies makes it even better. If you can get a couple of these amazing allies early, you probably wont be in any great risk of dying until the last levels of the Dungeon or Zot. Faith Amulet allows you to acquire allies very quickly.

Thursday, 5th December 2013, 03:01 by and into

Sandman25 wrote:
nago wrote:I often train invo before dodging/arnour , and along with fighting because I find having a couple of friendly 2 is much better than having 4 more ac/eV.
Sure you can't be certain with summon demons , but as long you have 10+ and 1 tele scroll left you can easily spam it

So what's your typical Armour/Dodging/AC/EV when you have Invocation 10+?

Well, one thing to note is that you can use lesser servant very well with just a few skill levels in invocations early on. It is almost certainly worth getting a bit in invocations as soon as you hit ***. That is a pretty big increase to your power so long as you can deal with about 1 in 6 being hostile, and since of course it is much easier to deal with hostile lesser servants than greater ones, 1 in 6 is not bad.

As for greater servant, you usually don't want to start training more than 3 or 4 in invocations until it becomes available, but once it does, getting 10 invocations is often a good strategy even though it might mean a delay in getting more defenses. Personally, I would say that asking about typical AC/EV probably doesn't apply in this case, because which way I would go on a Makhlebite depends exactly on how much AC and EV I have when I get enough piety to use greater servant. If it is on the low side, dodging and/or armor takes priority. Ditto if I don't think I can safely use greater servant for whatever reason (RNG has been stingy with ?tele, etc.)

Thursday, 5th December 2013, 08:13 by tompliss

Well, a quick in invo let me get % fail in the minors of Makhleb, and Ice form let me kill Fannar without loosing HPs (comparing it to the usual difficulty I have with him, it's clearly a great advantage for transmuters).

[Update]

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1313-gb2df4ef (webtiles) character file. TomPliss the Black Belt (Merfolk Transmuter) Turns: 26448, Time: 03:03:25 HP 108/108 AC 9 Str 11 XL: 14 Next: 35% MP 29/29 EV 22 Int 12 God: Makhleb [******] Gold 1255 SH 0 Dex 22 Spells: 6 memorised, 10 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold + . . Clarity . k - +2 elf robe {rC+} rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . F - +1 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . a - +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" {Dex+4 Int-1} rMut . Warding . Q - +0 pair of elf boots Saprov . . . Stasis . r - dented sapphire amulet {tried} K - ring of poison resistance W - +0,+5 ring of slaying @: non-regenerating, mildly diseased, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy A: change form in water, swift swim a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion You are on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Makhleb. Makhleb is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 19 of its levels. You have also visited: Ice Cave. You have collected 1255 gold pieces. Inventory: Hand weapons u - a +2,+4 halberd of pain (You took it off a gnoll on level 2 of the Dungeon) Missiles b - 74 arrows p - 44 stones (quivered) D - 3 tomahawks of returning U - 5 tomahawks Armour a - the +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" (worn) {Dex+4 Int-1} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) It affects your intelligence (-1). It affects your dexterity (+4). d - a fine chain mail (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) k - a +2 elven robe of cold resistance (worn) (You took it off Fannar on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts) F - a +1 cloak (worn) (You took it off Crazy Yiuf on level 4 of the Dungeon) Q - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn) (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts) Magical devices g - a wand of fire {zapped: 3} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) h - a wand of lightning (3) (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) j - a wand of paralysis (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) l - a runed glass wand (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) o - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) Comestibles t - a pear w - 5 bread rations Scrolls e - a scroll of remove curse m - 4 scrolls of identify s - 2 scrolls of teleportation E - a scroll labeled FROGARGH KHAWAIP G - 2 scrolls of noise R - 2 scrolls of fog Jewellery c - a dented sapphire amulet {tried} (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) r - a dented sapphire amulet (around neck) {tried} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts) v - an uncursed runed tourmaline ring {tried, was cursed} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts) H - an uncursed ring of flight (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon) I - an uncursed amulet of stasis (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts) K - a ring of poison resistance (right hand) (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) O - an uncursed runed steel ring {tried} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts) V - an uncursed ruby ring {tried} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts) W - a +0,+5 ring of slaying (left hand) (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) Potions q - a potion of heal wounds Books i - a book of the Earth (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) Spells Type Level Dig Earth 4 Leda's Liquefaction Hexes/Earth 4 Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5 Statue Form Transmutation/Earth 6 Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6 Shatter Earth 9 Magical staves f - a knobbly glowing staff (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) Miscellaneous n - a stone of tremors (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) J - a plain deck of cards (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) Skills: - Level 9.4 Fighting - Level 10.4 Dodging - Level 15.0 Unarmed Combat - Level 7.1 Spellcasting - Level 1.2 Translocations - Level 11.0 Transmutations - Level 5.1 Ice Magic - Level 2.5 Poison Magic * Level 11.3 Invocations - Level 5.0 Evocations You have 10 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Beastly Appendage Trmt ####.. 1% 1 None b - Sticks to Snakes Trmt ####...... 1% 2 #...... c - Spider Form Trmt/Pois ###....... 2% 3 ###.... d - Blade Hands Trmt ####...... 6% 5 #####.. e - Blink Tloc N/A 14% 2 #...... f - Ice Form Ice/Trmt ###....... 8% 4 ####... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (10/16) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (8/8) D:9 Swamp (0/5) Lair:6 Snake (0/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Shops: D:4 = Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | TomPliss, the Merfolk Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 3/3 192 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/21 MP: 4/4 223 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 666 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/26 MP: 6/6 1297 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes 1301 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form 1404 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 1893 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/32 MP: 7/7 2754 | D:2 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/37 MP: 7/9 3156 | D:3 | Noticed Grinder 3392 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns 3419 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 3699 | D:3 | Killed Grinder 3699 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 25/43 MP: 2/12 4657 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 5413 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 15/48 MP: 14/14 5728 | D:4 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 5975 | D:4 | Found Voraf's Jewellery Shop. 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 6311 | D:4 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 6334 | D:4 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 6543 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6800 | D:5 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7135 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 7143 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 7367 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 7408 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/54 MP: 16/16 7733 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 7893 | D:5 | Noticed Edmund 7931 | D:5 | Killed Edmund 7991 | D:5 | Got a slimy leather armour 8097 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging 8277 | D:4 | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour "Xoirae" {rF+ Dex+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 8322 | D:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands 8325 | D:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 8572 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8581 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8820 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations 8972 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations 9126 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/59 MP: 17/20 9729 | D:6 | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors! 10427 | D:7 | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 10698 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Makhleb the Destroyer 10844 | D:7 | Reached skill level 2 in Ice Magic 11234 | D:7 | Reached skill level 3 in Ice Magic 11364 | D:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Ice Magic 11797 | D:7 | Noticed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 11886 | D:7 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 11899 | D:7 | Acquired Makhleb's first power 12024 | D:7 | Noticed Menkaure 12043 | D:7 | Killed Menkaure 12263 | D:7 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 12263 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 17/65 MP: 19/22 12720 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 12830 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging 13069 | D:8 | Acquired Makhleb's second power 13279 | D:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 14388 | D:9 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 14395 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 14440 | D:9 | Noticed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Killed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 14810 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14815 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14854 | D:9 | Acquired Makhleb's third power 15038 | D:9 | Reached skill level 8 in Transmutations 15173 | D:9 | Paralysed by you for 3 turns 15257 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 15340 | D:9 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 29/70 MP: 16/24 15569 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting 15959 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 9 in Transmutations 15988 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting 16035 | Lair:1 | Noticed Fannar 16051 | Lair:1 | Killed Fannar 16051 | Lair:1 | Acquired Makhleb's fourth power 16051 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 2 in Invocations 16276 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [potion of mutation] 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation] 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You digest meat inefficiently. [potion of mutation] 16725 | Lair:1 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1297-g3d87a2a to 0.14-a0-1313-gb2df4ef 16799 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 2 in Fighting 17165 | Lair:2 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 17172 | Lair:2 | Killed a five-headed hydra 17172 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting 17433 | Lair:2 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 17441 | Lair:2 | Killed a four-headed hydra 17441 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting 17441 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations 17468 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 17744 | Lair:2 | Got a pair of encrusted gloves 17820 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting 17852 | Lair:2 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 78/80 MP: 27/27 17854 | Lair:2 | Acquired Makhleb's fifth power 18131 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Transmutations 18138 | Lair:2 | Identified the +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" {Dex+4 Int-1} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) 18666 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting 18984 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting 19089 | Lair:3 | Noticed Maud 19102 | Lair:3 | Killed Maud 19178 | Lair:3 | Noticed Snorg 19446 | Lair:3 | Noticed Rupert 19465 | Lair:3 | Killed Rupert 19465 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 19465 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 2 in Evocations 19493 | Lair:3 | Killed Snorg 19666 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting 19947 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 3 in Evocations 20608 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Evocations 21081 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 21305 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 21305 | Lair:5 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 90/90 MP: 28/28 22233 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat 22438 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 22659 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 23191 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 23441 | Lair:6 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of cure mutation] 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: You digest meat inefficiently. [potion of cure mutation] 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [potion of cure mutation] 23694 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat 23904 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations 24437 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 24577 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 24611 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 6 in Invocations 24845 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 7 in Invocations 24846 | Lair:8 | Noticed Daniel's ghost (powerful DDGl) 24892 | Lair:8 | Killed Daniel's ghost 25308 | Lair:8 | Found a frozen archway. 25319 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 8 in Invocations 25348 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 25405 | IceCv | Reached XP level 14. HP: 95/108 MP: 24/29 25416 | IceCv | Reached skill level 9 in Invocations 25778 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations 26027 | Lair:8 | Got a fine chain mail 26098 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Invocations Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 150 | 216 | 571 | 840 | 525 || 2302 Halberd | | | 11 | 5 | 11 || 27 Throw: Stone | | | 16 | 14 | 25 || 55 Tomahawk | | | | 5 | || 5 Cast: Beastly Appendage | 7 | 25 | 47 | 62 | 23 || 164 Sticks to Snakes | | 20 | 42 | 9 | || 71 Spider Form | | 1 | 18 | 16 | 4 || 39 Ice Form | | | 5 | 28 | 21 || 54 Blink | | | | 11 | 2 || 13 Blade Hands | | | | 3 | 4 || 7 Invok: Minor Destruction | | | | 3 | 7 || 10 Lesser Servant of | | | | 4 | 29 || 33 Abil: End Transformatio | | 1 | 6 | 5 | 4 || 16 Evoke: Wand | | | | 10 | 5 || 15 Use: Potion | | 2 | 7 | 6 | 11 || 26 Scroll | | | 12 | 10 | 6 || 28 Stab: Sleeping | | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 || 11 Distracted | | | 2 | 3 | 4 || 9

Lair is cleared.
10 invo may be overkill as I get 1% fail on minor abilities, but greater ones are accessibles, so ...
I'll see whether I can get the mcastable soon, or whether I'll focus on UC/dodging/figthing some more (I may need more tanking).

So now, my options are :
- Snake
- Swamp
- further dungeon
- Orc (req some more dungeon)

I was blocked in the dungeon progression because of a shock-point in the stairs, but with good transmutations available and Makhleb's summons, I can get through that.
On the other hand, with rPois and Ice Form (so possibly another ring on), I can go through both lair branches.

With classic fighters, I usually go for D:14 then Orc:3 when I am in this type of situation, but there, I don't realy know what to do...
In term of spellbooks, I don't have many great things, and I should be able to find some more in the dungeon or in shops in Orc:4, but they're a long way away, and very random-y (the less random being the most deadly...).

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 12:45 by tompliss

Snake pit is harder than I remember :/

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1403-g5d3c58f (webtiles) character file. TomPliss the Malleable (Merfolk Transmuter) Turns: 59872, Time: 08:26:12 HP 16/155 AC 6 Str 12 XL: 19 Next: 86% MP 26/33 EV 33 Int 15 God: Makhleb [****..] Gold 1716 SH 0 Dex 24 Spells: 8 memorised, 3 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . - Unarmed rCold . . . Clarity . x - +1 orc robe {MR+} rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . P - +1 wizard hat {Int+3} rElec . rRot . (no cloak) SustAb . . Spirit . a - +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" {Dex+4 Int-1} rMut . Warding . z - melded +2 pair of boots Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet) K - ring of poison resistance W - +0,+5 ring of slaying @: mildly poisoned, very slightly contaminated, very quick, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy A: change form in water, swift swim a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction, Renounce Religion }: 1/15 runes: decaying You are on level 5 of the Snake Pit. You worship Makhleb. Makhleb is greatly pleased with you. You are near starving. You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 43 of its levels. You have also visited: Ice Cave. You have collected 3906 gold pieces. You have spent 2190 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons u - a +2,+4 halberd of pain (You took it off a gnoll on level 2 of the Dungeon) Missiles l - 8 poisoned needles p - 44 stones (quivered) Armour a - the +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" (worn) {Dex+4 Int-1} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) It affects your intelligence (-1). It affects your dexterity (+4). x - a +1 orcish robe of magic resistance (worn) (You took it off an orc sorcerer on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) z - a +2 pair of boots (melded) (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon) P - a +1 wizard hat of intelligence (worn) (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) Magical devices h - a wand of fire {zapped: 4} (You found it on level 1 of the Swamp) i - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon) k - a wand of fireball (You found it on level 5 of the Swamp) o - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) N - a wand of digging (You found it on level 3 of the Vaults) Comestibles m - a meat ration w - 3 bread rations Scrolls d - a scroll of identify r - a scroll of fear s - 4 scrolls of teleportation y - a scroll of blinking C - 4 scrolls of remove curse Jewellery b - an uncursed square ruby amulet {tried} (You found it on level 1 of the Snake Pit) j - an uncursed amulet of clarity (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon) v - an uncursed ring of see invisible (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) E - a steel ring (You found it on level 5 of the Snake Pit) I - an uncursed amulet of stasis (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts) K - a ring of poison resistance (right hand) (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) W - a +0,+5 ring of slaying (left hand) (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) Potions c - 8 potions of curing e - a fizzy blue potion A - 2 potions of might M - a potion of speed Books g - a book of Alchemy (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Snake Pit) Spells Type Level Lethal Infusion Charms/Necromancy 2 Sublimation of Blood Necromancy 2 Condensation Shield Ice 4 Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 4 Petrify Transmutation/Earth 4 *Ignite Poison Fire/Transmutation 5 B - a book of Ice (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Vaults) Spells Type Level Freezing Aura Charms/Ice 2 Ensorcelled Hibernation Hexes/Ice 2 Ozocubu's Refrigeration Ice 6 Bolt of Cold Conjuration/Ice 6 Freezing Cloud Conjuration/Ice/Air 6 Metabolic Englaciation Hexes/Ice 6 Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 6 Miscellaneous f - a phial of floods (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) n - a stone of tremors (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts) t - a fan of gales (inert) (You found it on level 5 of the Swamp) Skills: - Level 15.4 Fighting - Level 13.1 Dodging - Level 20.6 Unarmed Combat + Level 7.4 Spellcasting - Level 3.3 Translocations * Level 21.0 Transmutations * Level 6.3 Ice Magic - Level 2.5 Poison Magic - Level 12.0 Invocations - Level 5.0 Evocations You have 3 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Beastly Appendage Trmt ###### 0% 1 None b - Sticks to Snakes Trmt ######.... 0% 2 None c - Spider Form Trmt/Pois #####..... 1% 3 ##..... d - Blade Hands Trmt ######.... 1% 5 #####.. e - Blink Tloc N/A 6% 2 None f - Ice Form Ice/Trmt #####..... 1% 4 ####... g - Dragon Form Trmt ######.... 1% 7 ####### h - Ignite Poison Fire/Trmt #####..... 6% 5 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (16/16) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (4/4) D:10 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:9 Swamp (5/5) Lair:6 Snake (5/5) Lair:6 Slime (0/6) Lair:6 Vaults (4/5) D:15 Blade (0/1) Vaults:4 Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3 Depths (0/6) D:16 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin the Shining One Beogh Shops: D:4 = Orc:4 =*([ Snake:2 ? Snake:3 ? Snake:4 + Vaults:1 ! Vaults:2 % Vaults:4 * Annotations: Orc:3 exclusion: downstairs Snake:5 1 exclusion Message History A greater naga comes into view. It is wielding a halberd. The greater naga shouts! A greater naga comes into view. It is wielding a club. The greater naga shouts! A naga comes into view. It is wielding a war axe. The naga shouts! The sea snake hisses angrily. The sea snake closely misses you. The greater naga points at you and mumbles some strange words. The poison arrow hits you! You are poisoned. You partially resist. * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The greater naga completely misses you. The naga warrior spits poison at you. The splash of poison hits you! You resist. * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The sea snake closely misses you. Found a serpentine rune of Zot. 2 sea snakes and 7 nagas come into view. 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HP: 14/26 MP: 6/6 1297 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes 1301 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form 1404 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 1893 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 32/32 MP: 7/7 2754 | D:2 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/37 MP: 7/9 3156 | D:3 | Noticed Grinder 3392 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns 3419 | D:3 | Paralysed by Grinder for 2 turns 3699 | D:3 | Killed Grinder 3699 | D:3 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 25/43 MP: 2/12 4657 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 5413 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 15/48 MP: 14/14 5728 | D:4 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 5975 | D:4 | Found Voraf's Jewellery Shop. 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 6283 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 6311 | D:4 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 6334 | D:4 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 6543 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6800 | D:5 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 7135 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 7143 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 7367 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging 7408 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 37/54 MP: 16/16 7733 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 7893 | D:5 | Noticed Edmund 7931 | D:5 | Killed Edmund 7991 | D:5 | Got a slimy leather armour 8097 | D:5 | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging 8277 | D:4 | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour "Xoirae" {rF+ Dex+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 8322 | D:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands 8325 | D:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 8572 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8581 | D:6 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 8820 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations 8972 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations 9126 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/59 MP: 17/20 9729 | D:6 | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors! 10427 | D:7 | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 10475 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 10698 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Makhleb the Destroyer 10844 | D:7 | Reached skill level 2 in Ice Magic 11234 | D:7 | Reached skill level 3 in Ice Magic 11364 | D:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Ice Magic 11797 | D:7 | Noticed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Killed Blork the orc 11807 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 11886 | D:7 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 11899 | D:7 | Acquired Makhleb's first power 12024 | D:7 | Noticed Menkaure 12043 | D:7 | Killed Menkaure 12263 | D:7 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 12263 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 17/65 MP: 19/22 12720 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 12830 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging 13069 | D:8 | Acquired Makhleb's second power 13279 | D:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 14388 | D:9 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 14395 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 14440 | D:9 | Noticed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Killed a centaur warrior 14450 | D:9 | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat 14810 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 14815 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 14854 | D:9 | Acquired Makhleb's third power 15038 | D:9 | Reached skill level 8 in Transmutations 15173 | D:9 | Paralysed by you for 3 turns 15257 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 15340 | D:9 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 29/70 MP: 16/24 15569 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting 15959 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 9 in Transmutations 15988 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting 16035 | Lair:1 | Noticed Fannar 16051 | Lair:1 | Killed Fannar 16051 | Lair:1 | Acquired Makhleb's fourth power 16051 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 2 in Invocations 16276 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [potion of mutation] 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation] 16722 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: You digest meat inefficiently. [potion of mutation] 16725 | Lair:1 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1297-g3d87a2a to 0.14-a0-1313-gb2df4ef 16799 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 2 in Fighting 17165 | Lair:2 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 17172 | Lair:2 | Killed a five-headed hydra 17172 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting 17433 | Lair:2 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 17441 | Lair:2 | Killed a four-headed hydra 17441 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting 17441 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations 17468 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 17744 | Lair:2 | Got a pair of encrusted gloves 17820 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting 17852 | Lair:2 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 78/80 MP: 27/27 17854 | Lair:2 | Acquired Makhleb's fifth power 18131 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Transmutations 18138 | Lair:2 | Identified the +1 pair of gloves "Bruen" {Dex+4 Int-1} (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts) 18666 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting 18984 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting 19089 | Lair:3 | Noticed Maud 19102 | Lair:3 | Killed Maud 19178 | Lair:3 | Noticed Snorg 19446 | Lair:3 | Noticed Rupert 19465 | Lair:3 | Killed Rupert 19465 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 19465 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 2 in Evocations 19493 | Lair:3 | Killed Snorg 19666 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting 19947 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 3 in Evocations 20608 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Evocations 21081 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 21305 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 21305 | Lair:5 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 90/90 MP: 28/28 22233 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat 22438 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 22659 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 23191 | Lair:6 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 23441 | Lair:6 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of cure mutation] 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: You digest meat inefficiently. [potion of cure mutation] 23444 | Lair:6 | Lost mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [potion of cure mutation] 23694 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat 23904 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations 24437 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 24577 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 24611 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 6 in Invocations 24845 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 7 in Invocations 24846 | Lair:8 | Noticed Daniel's ghost (powerful DDGl) 24892 | Lair:8 | Killed Daniel's ghost 25308 | Lair:8 | Found a frozen archway. 25319 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 8 in Invocations 25348 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 25405 | IceCv | Reached XP level 14. HP: 95/108 MP: 24/29 25416 | IceCv | Reached skill level 9 in Invocations 25778 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations 26027 | Lair:8 | Got a fine chain mail 26098 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Invocations 26759 | D:10 | Noticed Josephine 26773 | D:10 | Killed Josephine 26838 | D:10 | Noticed Nergalle 26843 | D:10 | Killed Nergalle 26874 | D:10 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 26917 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 26925 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 26925 | D:10 | Reached skill level 12 in Invocations 27073 | D:10 | Noticed Urug 27098 | D:10 | Killed Urug 27892 | D:11 | Noticed Erolcha 27908 | D:11 | Killed Erolcha 29376 | D:12 | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging 29664 | D:13 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 29961 | D:13 | Noticed thfral's ghost (mighty DECj) 29984 | D:13 | Killed thfral's ghost 30506 | D:13 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1313-gb2df4ef to 0.14-a0-1330-g3eed206 30894 | D:14 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 93/115 MP: 30/30 30967 | D:14 | Noticed Azrael 31023 | D:14 | Killed Azrael 31023 | D:14 | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat 31968 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 31968 | D:15 | Found a gate to the Vaults. 32489 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 32499 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging 34668 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 34770 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 35205 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting 35218 | Orc:4 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 35310 | Orc:4 | Found Klazagg's Antique Weapon Emporium. 35342 | Orc:4 | Found Braituis' Jewellery Emporium. 35392 | Orc:4 | Found Omauczao's Antique Armour Emporium. 35407 | Orc:4 | Found Qiamirphi's General Store. 35610 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat 36228 | Orc:4 | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 195 gold pieces 36757 | D:15 | Noticed Erica 36762 | D:15 | Killed Erica 37552 | D:16 | Entered Level 16 of the Dungeon 38033 | D:16 | Noticed Nessos 38036 | D:16 | Killed Nessos 38120 | D:16 | Found a staircase to the Depths. 38153 | D:16 | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting 38254 | D:16 | Reached skill level 18 in Unarmed Combat 38254 | D:16 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 112/127 MP: 31/31 38535 | D:16 | Noticed Kirke 38555 | D:16 | Killed Kirke 39198 | Swamp:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp 39523 | Swamp:1 | Got a dazzling chain mail 40804 | Swamp:3 | Noticed Wiglaf 40838 | Swamp:3 | Killed Wiglaf 41086 | Swamp:3 | Noticed Jorgrun 41105 | Swamp:3 | Killed Jorgrun 41213 | Swamp:3 | Noticed Louise 41236 | Swamp:3 | Killed Louise 41381 | Swamp:3 | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat 42097 | Swamp:2 | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting 42916 | Swamp:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp 43254 | Swamp:5 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 110/137 MP: 31/31 43375 | Swamp:5 | Got a decaying rune of Zot 43427 | Swamp:5 | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat 43837 | Swamp:5 | Noticed Torious' ghost (powerful DESu) 43857 | Swamp:5 | Killed Torious' ghost 44082 | Snake:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit 45016 | Snake:1 | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting 45112 | Snake:2 | Found Praded's Magic Scroll Shoppe. 45210 | Snake:2 | Noticed Aizul 45224 | Snake:2 | Killed Aizul 45820 | Snake:2 | Learned a level 7 spell: Dragon Form 45968 | Snake:2 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 47051 | Snake:3 | Reached skill level 12 in Transmutations 47492 | Snake:3 | Tolias: isn't this ac kinda low for dis lvl 47493 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: I'm a transmuter. 47493 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: i'm a merfolk 47493 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: I have -3 in armor and there is no point wearign armor when you can turn into an ice beast (and maybe soon a dragon) 47526 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: It means : yeah, it's low 47529 | Snake:3 | Tolias: no mda? 47543 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: I'm low on ?EA 47543 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: i've got 2 ?EA 47562 | Snake:2 | TomPliss: So i'm thinking about keeping them for better things, maybe 47564 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: and I've got 3 robes : Mr rF+, rC+ 47564 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: they were all +2 (but now, the MR is only +1) 47564 | Snake:3 | TomPliss: So I just stay with em 47692 | Snake:3 | Found Duerpho's Magic Scroll Shoppe. 48283 | Snake:4 | Reached skill level 13 in Transmutations 48494 | Snake:4 | Found Blaseam's Book Shoppe. 48530 | Snake:4 | TomPliss: I can get Ignite Poison at snake level 4, after having cleared Swamps ... :/ 48530 | Snake:4 | TomPliss: too late, little shop, too late 48530 | Snake:4 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1330-g3eed206 to 0.14-a0-1361-g0512ea0 49067 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults 49389 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 14 in Transmutations 49418 | Vaults:1 | Noticed Saint Roka 49449 | Vaults:1 | Killed Saint Roka 49592 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 15 in Transmutations 49643 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 146/146 MP: 32/32 50005 | Vaults:1 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1361-g0512ea0 to 0.14-a0-1388-g200237c 50122 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 16 in Transmutations 50371 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 17 in Transmutations 50399 | Vaults:1 | Found Qoduitodgh's Distillery. 50408 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of flight for 30 gold pieces 50408 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of might for 25 gold pieces 50408 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of speed for 55 gold pieces 50408 | Vaults:1 | Bought a potion of magic for 70 gold pieces 50863 | Vaults:1 | Got an ancient robe 50867 | Vaults:1 | Got a polished wizard hat 50871 | Vaults:1 | Identified the +0 robe of Griota {Dex-1 Int+3 Acc+4} (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) 50872 | Vaults:1 | Identified the cursed -1 wizard hat of the Guardian {rPois rF++ Curse} (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) 50951 | Vaults:1 | Got a wizard robe 50964 | Vaults:1 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 50964 | Vaults:1 | Noticed a lich 50971 | Vaults:1 | Killed a lich 50979 | Vaults:1 | Got a fine robe 50981 | Vaults:1 | Got a thick robe 50992 | Vaults:1 | Identified the +1 robe "Waimuf" {rPois MR+} (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) 50993 | Vaults:1 | Identified the +0 robe of Abamodu {rC+} (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults) 51260 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 18 in Transmutations 51478 | Vaults:2 | Found Pnek's Food Boutique. 51616 | Vaults:2 | Got a faintly glowing flail 52061 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 19 in Transmutations 52721 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Roxanne 53355 | Vaults:2 | Killed Roxanne 53782 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 20 in Transmutations 53782 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 118/152 MP: 31/33 55496 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Xtahua 55722 | Vaults:3 | Killed Xtahua 55741 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: I just firedragon-ed Xtahua ! :D 55741 | Vaults:3 | Psiweapon: awesome 55762 | Vaults:3 | Psiweapon: I just got killed by one of Kirke's hogs, polymorphed into a spriggan 55766 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: you poly-ed him or ? 55766 | Vaults:3 | Psiweapon: nvm because it was being a boring run 55766 | Vaults:3 | Psiweapon: I polied it yes 55766 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: Hogs are toughs, but they are plain melee tanks, not "that" dangerous :/ 55766 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: not a thing I would Poly ... 55766 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: not that I poly anything ever ^^" 55778 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt. 55779 | Vaults:3 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 55779 | Vaults:3 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 55837 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting 55899 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: well, got to go back to work 55899 | Vaults:3 | Psiweapon: as I said, I was getting bored of the character XD 55934 | Vaults:3 | TomPliss: yeah ... see you ;) 55997 | Vaults:3 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1388-g200237c to 0.14-a0-1403-g5d3c58f 56555 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging 56787 | Vaults:4 | Found Ketzog's Assorted Antiques. 56842 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 2 in Translocations 57216 | Vaults:4 | Bought a papyrus book for 315 gold pieces 57402 | Vaults:4 | Found a staircase to the Hall of Blades. 57574 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Translocations 58135 | Snake:4 | Bought a book of Alchemy for 1500 gold pieces 58142 | Snake:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Ignite Poison 58482 | Snake:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit 58614 | Snake:5 | Noticed Lamia 59101 | Snake:5 | Killed Lamia 59473 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 6 in Ice Magic 59853 | Snake:5 | Noticed Donald 59869 | Snake:5 | Killed Donald 59869 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 21 in Transmutations Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 150 | 216 | 571 | 840 | 1494 | 1781 | 441 || 5493 Halberd | | | 11 | 5 | 18 | | 1 || 35 Fire: Crossbow | | | | | | 81 | || 81 Throw: Stone | | | 16 | 14 | 28 | 4 | || 62 Tomahawk | | | | 5 | 5 | | || 10 Javelin | | | | | 1 | 2 | || 3 Cast: Beastly Appendage | 7 | 25 | 47 | 62 | 143 | 144 | 57 || 485 Sticks to Snakes | | 20 | 42 | 9 | | | || 71 Spider Form | | 1 | 18 | 16 | 11 | 2 | 1 || 49 Ice Form | | | 5 | 28 | 38 | 11 | || 82 Blink | | | | 11 | 2 | 1 | || 14 Blade Hands | | | | 3 | 19 | 25 | 7 || 54 Ignite Poison | | | | | | | 8 || 8 Dragon Form | | | | | | | 4 || 4 Invok: Minor Destruction | | | | 3 | 10 | 56 | 18 || 87 Lesser Servant of | | | | 4 | 147 | 119 | 58 || 328 Major Destruction | | | | | 7 | 28 | 4 || 39 Greater Servant o | | | | | 5 | 5 | 2 || 12 Abil: End Transformatio | | 1 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 2 | 3 || 24 Breathe Fire | | | | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | | 10 | 5 | 13 | || 28 stone of tremors | | | | | | 1 | || 1 fan of gales | | | | | | | 1 || 1 phial of floods | | | | | | | 1 || 1 Use: Potion | | 2 | 7 | 6 | 13 | 3 | 9 || 40 Scroll | | | 12 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 4 || 44 Stab: Sleeping | | 3 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 1 || 23 Distracted | | | 2 | 3 | 18 | 33 | 14 || 70

Am I the only one thinking I'm going to die and can't do anything anymore to prevent it ?
I deserve it, really, as I should have read another ?blink to get away from the pack of snakes + guardian serpent + (now dead) Donald that was my welcome comittee... :
And ignite poison isn't as powerful as expected. I mean, I have no fire magic, but come on ... 20 transmut isn't enough to deal real damage ? :/

I feel like I derail my own topic...

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 13:06 by Sar

You have blinking. The pools on the north and north-east look nice. I wonder if you blink on the top north watery square, will the greater naga have range to hit you with its spells? Because if it will you are dead. The north-west pool looks tempting too but there is another greater naga camping it. Wonder if it can hit you if you try to blink at the far square. Goddamn circlelos.

Edit: apparently guardian serpents have bolt of venom too so you might want to avoid that one.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 13:53 by Mankeli

Since the times seem to be pretty desperate, I'd maybe do the following:

1) blink to the northernmost tile, three tiles up from the naga warrior.

2) read ?tele (depending on what monsters there are in the unexplored area you perhaps want to chug healing before this)

3) chug curing every turn (if lesser nagas approach, maybe read ?fear at some point depending) until tele kicks in.

4) profit (maybe), unless there are greater nagas/naga warriors waiting for you in the uneplored area next to the tile you are going to land or the teleport happens to place you in a situation as worse as this.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 14:20 by daggaz

If you have enough blinking, try to blink all the way around the corner in steps.

Otherwise, embrace death and remember to stay out of Snake:5 and especially the rune vault until you are far more powerful.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 14:43 by Tiktacy

daggaz wrote:If you have enough blinking, try to blink all the way around the corner in steps.

Otherwise, embrace death and remember to stay out of Snake:5 and especially the rune vault until you are far more powerful.

XL 19 is plenty powerful.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 15:02 by Sandman25

Tiktacy wrote:
daggaz wrote:If you have enough blinking, try to blink all the way around the corner in steps.

Otherwise, embrace death and remember to stay out of Snake:5 and especially the rune vault until you are far more powerful.

XL 19 is plenty powerful.

The character is weak MR-wise. Teleport Other is not a joke.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 15:25 by tompliss

Sandman25 wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:XL 19 is plenty powerful.

The character is weak MR-wise. Teleport Other is not a joke.

I had amulet of stasis to take care of that. except I took it off to quaff my potion of speed and blink away from ennemies already.
And anyway, guardian serpent Teleporting their friends to me isn't prevented by any amount of MR...

Could the Stone of tremors dig one of the vault walls ?
Worst thing is I am already near starving (Blade Hands, 2*Ignite Poison, greater servant and multiple lesser got me there from no hunger... should have got to very full before opening the door :/), so I don't have many chances, as far as spells go. Dragon Form could get me some more HP but large size means less effective EV ... Spider form to flee could be fun, but rPois ring only negates the vulnerability, letting me without real rPois in front of a dozen nagas :/

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 15:41 by Sar

None of the forms would help you in any way in that position I think, your only hope is reading blink, reading tele, quaffing curing, possibly quaffing speed somewhere after the blink.

If I'm allowed to talk about your skill training, 21 Tmut is a huge investment that I would not do on pretty much any character ever, and those XP would've been better spent on Dodging and Fighting.

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 15:47 by tompliss

Sar wrote:If I'm allowed to talk about your skill training, 21 Tmut is a huge investment that I would not do on pretty much any character ever, and those XP would've been better spent on Dodging and Fighting.

Please do. I went to 21 transmut because I wanted to have Dragon form at a decent Failure rate (and because when it was still at 12%, it was still dark red, and I don't think transmutation miscasts are the safest). and it let me have Ignite Poison at a decent rate without fire magic (with -7 aptitude, due to the ice training).
And it was enough to wander through the vault (not V:5 obviously), even if I got to low HP once or twice...

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 15:56 by Sar

Dragon Form gives you a truckload of killing power, but Blade Hands give you a (smaller) truckload too and don't nuke your defenses. You can probably get DF later when you are rolling in XP and have a staff of wizardry or something - just for fun - but it's not really necessary to win and not a priority.
I wouldn't bother with Ignite Poison on this character either. Spellpower is determined by average value of related spell schools, and you had 0 Fire Magic and mediocre Int (not to say you should've raised Int on this dude - Dex was a better idea).

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 18:24 by Mankeli

That amount of transmutations is huge. Not only does dragon form ruin your defences (well, exluding your mega HP), it also takes away from exp training your defences as well.

Blade hands damage is so insane that learning dragon form in this part of the game feels really sub-optimal.

And, if I may ask, did you follow my (or someone else's) advice and did your character end up dead?

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 19:59 by tompliss

Well, I just tried and died.
RNG don't like my escape attempts, as I survived long enough to read 2 scrolls of TP, the first placing still in LOS of the rune, and the second on in melee with an Anaconda (so constricted) and with 3 nagas in view just at the door of the previously mentionned welcoming comittee

Anyway, I'll know for further games that Dragon Form really isn't that good, at least when you can usually have decent defences. I should try it again on a Draconian (as they keep their native AC bonus and resistances), or with a Demonspawn if they keep their weird mutations...

Tuesday, 10th December 2013, 20:16 by pickled_heretic

I think Tm starts with all the spells he needs for a 3 rune game. I had an easy and quite fun time with SETm (I want sludge elves back...) Just hacking things to bits with my blade hands.

Wednesday, 11th December 2013, 00:42 by rchandra

I used dragon form and necromutation occasionally as a DsTm, but it was very much a late game thing (Blade Hands disabling wands was annoying at that point).

Wednesday, 11th December 2013, 02:30 by mikee

When a monster successfully casts teleport other on you, it gives you the 'tele' status. Did you know that if you get this status a second time before teleporting, such as by reading a teleport scroll, it removes the status?

Wednesday, 11th December 2013, 04:48 by reaver

mikee wrote:When a monster successfully casts teleport other on you, it gives you the 'tele' status. Did you know that if you get this status a second time before teleporting, such as by reading a teleport scroll, it removes the status?

One of my favorite facepalm moments proceeded as following:

I don't notice.

I don't notice for about nine turns,

Wednesday, 11th December 2013, 05:31 by duvessa

reaver needs to watch !lg drke zot:5 1 -tv:<2