All The Gods

[tcjsavannah]

My current DCSS goal is to win with Gods that I have not won with up to this point. I've dabbled in a few playings with the other gods, but have never consistently gotten far. So, what are some suggested combos you would have to win with the Gods I haven't won with yet?

EDIT: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

Gods I've won with: Makhleb, Okawaru, Xom, Sif Muna, The Shining One, Trog, Vehumet, Yredelemnul, Nemelex Xobeh, Cheibriados, and the Demigod "No God"

Gods won since I started this thread:
Ashenzari (SEEE)

Beogh (HOPR)

Elyvilon (HOHe)

Kiku (DrWz)

Lugonu (MiAK)

Zin (MiFi)

Fedhas Madah (TrMo)

Jivya (TrFi)

edited to reflect wins since thread started

[residualshade]

For Elyvilon try a DDHe with heavy armor. you can go 2h or sword and board depending on preference. with this combination the game becomes pure resource management. as long as you don't do anything too derpy you cannot die.

the big disadvantage with this combo is that you can go all the way to end game without realizing you have lost. what will frequently happen is you will get to apoint and realize you were not frugal enough with your resources and end up dieing because you can no longer heal yourself. the damage is already done and it will usually be to late to do anything about it. my first and only DDHe died on Zot:5 from starvation. this combination heavily benefits from an amulet of the gourmond.

[crate]

I wouldn't really suggest DDHe to anyone, especially someone who doesn't know how elyvilon works. It is true that DDHe is perhaps the least-likely-to-unavoidably-die character in the game but it will be frustrating to learn how ely works with DD.

HOHe is similarly powerful but much less frustrating. Alternatively you can take Ely to support a melee character with as much healing as you want, though figuring out where to put your xp on such a character is complicated.

[Davion Fuxa]

Kikubaagudgha is a god that really strikes me as more beneficial if you plan on doing Late Game areas where Torment is a concern. For a simple win that ignore such areas though, I would suggest taking a fairly strong character that can survive long enough to get to 6 piety before Pain Branding a weapon that will be used to carry you through the rest of the game. I did this on my Kobold Artificer that found an early Lajatang, though I would recommend using something else. Mainly what you are after is to put Pain Brand on something like a Great Mace, Great Sword, Battleaxe, or Glaive - or Tripple Sword, Executioner's Axe, or Bardiche if you luck into one of those early enough.

Lugonu has a very strong capability of taking you through the Early Game. I recently won with him on an Ogre Abyssal Knight, and by worshiping him I was able to survive long enough to establish the Ogre to the point where he could just clobber everything to make up for Lugonu's declining usefulness later into the game.

Zin is the reverse of Lugonu in that he has a very weak Early Game. With Zin it is a simple course of picking a strong Species and Background setup that will carry you through the Early Game to the point where you can train Invocations up some and make use of Zin's Invocations to decimate foes. For me I beat him with a Spriggan Fighter, though I would recommend Spriggan Assassin as a better choice - sometimes Zin's Recite can Confuse and Paralyze things and then you can walk up and stab them; he also doesn't care if you use poison so that's a plus as well.

[varsovie]

Deep elf for magic god, Minotaur for the remaining.

[some12fat2move]

Gods yet to win with:
Ashenzari (this screams SpEn but I have yet to get one really up and running far enough to tackle Vaults/Zot. The binding of a weapon seems to be my weakness because I love switching ranged/melee)

You know you can just not bind your weapon?

[tcjsavannah]

Gods yet to win with:
Ashenzari (this screams SpEn but I have yet to get one really up and running far enough to tackle Vaults/Zot. The binding of a weapon seems to be my weakness because I love switching ranged/melee)

You know you can just not bind your weapon?

Yes, it just seems like a missed opportunity not to take advantage of the enhanced weapon skills, that's all.

[ontoclasm]

TrHe was hilariously easy. I imagine MiHe would be similar.

[pratamawirya]

Yeah, TrHe is wickedly easy and powerful. Troll's claws + healing + pacification = dirty.

[rchandra]

Gods yet to win with:
Ashenzari (this screams SpEn but I have yet to get one really up and running far enough to tackle Vaults/Zot. The binding of a weapon seems to be my weakness because I love switching ranged/melee)

You know you can just not bind your weapon?

Yes, it just seems like a missed opportunity not to take advantage of the enhanced weapon skills, that's all.

Many characters can bind the weapon early, then keep the slot uncursed once they no longer need piety gain or the skill boost.

[diviton]

For Fedhas, I've heard a Merfolk Ice Elementalist is good.

[KoboldLord]

Kikubaagudgha is a god that really strikes me as more beneficial if you plan on doing Late Game areas where Torment is a concern. For a simple win that ignore such areas though, I would suggest taking a fairly strong character that can survive long enough to get to 6 piety before Pain Branding a weapon that will be used to carry you through the rest of the game. I did this on my Kobold Artificer that found an early Lajatang, though I would recommend using something else. Mainly what you are after is to put Pain Brand on something like a Great Mace, Great Sword, Battleaxe, or Glaive - or Tripple Sword, Executioner's Axe, or Bardiche if you luck into one of those early enough.

Kiku is ideal in the early game for any background that starts with a spellbook. You get a fast, mostly reliable selection of utility and support spells that all key off of only one additional magic skill. Skeletons and zombies might not be as generally overpowered as true summons, but they're good enough to distract enemies or cover your escape. Pain and Agony might not be as reliable as conjurations, but they'll cut a troublesome enemy down to a more manageable size while still at range and bypass the resistance of anything immune to your main element. And so forth. The key point is that you get all these things at once, instead of having to buy up a new skill from scratch for each trick.

The pain brand comes in a bit later, and it allows you to hybridize into a melee threat for an absolute rock-bottom, bare-minimum investment of xp. Fast weapons that benefit the most from the pain brand are almost invariably also the cheapest to get to minimum delay, and you already have the necromancy skill that powers it because you have a whole stack of spellbooks full of useful spells that all key off that skill.

Kiku's late-game perks like Torment protection and death curse protection aren't very important. The Necronomicon isn't very useful either. By the time they become useful, you have a multitude of other ways to handle those issues. She honestly still isn't a particularly good post-endgame deity, although she's not as abjectly terrible as she was before her last devteam makeover.

If you want to try a representative Kiku game, try pretty much any recommended caster combo for any reasonably bulky species. Hill orcs, draconians, demonspawn, and so forth. Once you've gotten your starting spellbook to a satisfactory level of mastery, start feeding xp into your weapon skill and using it.

[njvack]

Kiku's late-game perks like Torment protection and death curse protection aren't very important. The Necronomicon isn't very useful either. By the time they become useful, you have a multitude of other ways to handle those issues. She honestly still isn't a particularly good post-endgame deity, although she's not as abjectly terrible as she was before her last devteam makeover.

On the upside, Kiku helps make the Golden rune not necessarily be post-endgame content

[Psieye]

Kiku is ideal in the early game for any background that starts with a spellbook.

Truth is spoken here. Kiku is my 'default, go-to' caster god. New Veh can finally compete for my attention when I pick a caster class, but I will still head over to Kiku if his altar doesn't present itself in a timely fashion.


Anyway, some suggestions for starters to win with certain gods:
- MfGl/IE Fedhas
- VpEn Kiku (corpse delivery means you can play like a mummy at times)
- DEWz Kiku
- SpEE Ash (for passwall, and a ranged option without taking off your weapon)
- MiPr Zin (or just do a melee Oka/Trog->TSO->Zin game)

Zin can be played sort-of like a giftless Oka with a focus on defense instead of offense: instead of Hero-ism you get a multi-resist (with significant stat boosts if you've got the Invo) and instead of Finesse you get Imprison (and later, Sanctuary) to guarantee you can run away from unwanted fights. I found Recite to be not so relevant until I had 20+ Invo so don't worry about it until lategame.

[Lasty]

I found Recite to be not so relevant until I had 20+ Invo so don't worry about it until lategame.

Recite at around 15-20 invo is hilarious in Orc. Only high priests will resist most of the time.

[Psieye]

I found Recite to be not so relevant until I had 20+ Invo so don't worry about it until lategame.

Recite at around 15-20 invo is hilarious in Orc. Only high priests will resist most of the time.

But around 15-ish Invo they still only get afflicted with the milder debuffs. You can't get results like PERMANENT PARALYSIS until you're at 20+.

[Davion Fuxa]

I found Recite to be not so relevant until I had 20+ Invo so don't worry about it until lategame.

Recite at around 15-20 invo is hilarious in Orc. Only high priests will resist most of the time.

But around 15-ish Invo they still only get afflicted with the milder debuffs. You can't get results like PERMANENT PARALYSIS until you're at 20+.

Sometimes the milder debuffs are pretty helpful, Paralysis is nice but Confuse isn't necessarily bad. Bleeding things to death can also do quite a bit of damage too.

[crate]

btw if you have 15-20 invo in orc you should just convert to ely and pacify everything because it is much stronger

[KoboldLord]

I found Recite to be not so relevant until I had 20+ Invo so don't worry about it until lategame.

Recite at around 15-20 invo is hilarious in Orc. Only high priests will resist most of the time.

Fix your quote tags. I don't want credit for saying that.

[tcjsavannah]

Alright, so my second healer died pretty much the same as the first - multiple Greater Healings failed on a Tentacled Monstrosity and he constricted me to death. Is there a "don't bother trying to pacify X mob" list somewhere? And is there anything else that affects pacifying other than Invocations 27? (INT, piety, etc.)

[BlackSheep]

Monster species affects your pacify chance. Other than that, no.

[Lasty]

Sometimes the milder debuffs are pretty helpful, Paralysis is nice but Confuse isn't necessarily bad. Bleeding things to death can also do quite a bit of damage too.

Yeah. Permanent madness is about as good as permanent paralysis. I'll cede crate's point that for a given investment in Invocations, Ely is better, but Zin is still fun and not totally awful. Also, he tends to give you satiation instead of draining it quickly.

In any case, just hitting things with a stick is also pretty effective in Orc, but there's a certain pleasure to activating a single ability and having all the orcs die or go crazy.

[tcjsavannah]

Another healer down the drain, thanks to four Orbs of Fire in Zot:5. I felt impotent going up against just one. Four, I had no freaking shot at. Just knowing now that there were four waiting for me, I honestly have no idea how I could have won.

[Davion Fuxa]

That mostly just your personally taste?

To me it is less about the God's Powers and more about play-ability under the gods; I'm trying a decent run with Yredelemnul right now but I don't think I'll be playing with him on another character after this run. Compared to Zin though, I might want to play him again and again because he seems like a fun God and I like playing under his restrictions.

[KoboldLord]

Another healer down the drain, thanks to four Orbs of Fire in Zot:5. I felt impotent going up against just one. Four, I had no freaking shot at. Just knowing now that there were four waiting for me, I honestly have no idea how I could have won.

I would've probably run away. Regardless of the character I was using. Once they're awake, they'll start to spread out.

[Tiwanasawus]

Has there been i guide written for Healers? Id read that.

[rebthor]

btw if you have 15-20 invo in orc you should just convert to ely and pacify everything because it is much stronger

Stronger, yes. But Keystone Kops is funnier.

[moocowmoocow]

HOHe is super easy... make a macro to pacify. Leave invo on all game and otherwise build skill like a generic melee. You can pacify almost everything. You even have save from death ability if you end up doing something dumb.

[tasonir]

That mostly just your personally taste?

To me it is less about the God's Powers and more about play-ability under the gods; I'm trying a decent run with Yredelemnul right now but I don't think I'll be playing with him on another character after this run. Compared to Zin though, I might want to play him again and again because he seems like a fun God and I like playing under his restrictions.

This is why Chei is the best god. Only Chei can bring down the player character's rampantly excessive power level effectively enough to make the game interesting

[crate]

Has there been i guide written for Healers? Id read that.

  Code:

<Henzell> healer guide[1/1]: <crate> pacify all the dudes until lair and then do whatever

[tcjsavannah]

So this has been a colossal failure so far. I've played about 30 games since I posted this thread, gotten runes multiple runes in five of those games, but just have not been able to get over the hump. All the healers I've played, especially the Trolls, reach a cap where they just run out of mobs they can pacify and kill. Even with sublimation, my Kiku casters run out of MP too quickly. The two times I tried to go Jiyva, the altar did not spawn, and my Fedhas ranged characters ran out of ammo and fruit too quickly.

I feel like I'm closest with the Healers. Defense seems to be the biggest problem. When pacify fails and you're forced to claw, if you can't kill them in three to four hits, it's a panic situation. What's the best way to have your Troll get decent defenses?

[crate]

With TrHe in particular I would claw most things to death and only pacify things that either
1) Are reasonably pacifyable and very dangerous (liches, dragons, etc)
2) Are too annoying for you to want to deal with (ugly things, etc.)

An invo apt of -1 (compared to +1 for most races) combined with the other apts trolls have plus their claws means that really imo the best way to use Ely on a troll is just for self-healing in fights. Obviously you want to pacify things to gain piety but you probably want to kill most things like normal.

If you want to pacify everything you should choose a different race.

Anyway trhe is pretty strong:
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/crate ... 202525.txt

[Pacra]

I would not suggest demonspawn for a starting-out Abyssal Knight. MiAK is by far the easiest AK to go with because lugonu's powers will easily help you get to that tipping point where your Mi offense crushes most opposition, and then give strong support in certain situations for the rest of the game.

[danharaj]

I think HOAK is pretty good too and better than MiAK.

[tcjsavannah]

Well I've finally checked one off the list.. won with my third try at a HOPr of Beogh since the post. I like the new recall mechanic of Beogh and also enjoyed being able to cast in heavy armor with the Hill Orc's aptitudes. Played Zot very carefully, alternating between crossbow and axe, mostly ally-less and used the allies to create some space on the run back up with the orb.

EDIT: Also survived despite the following happening:

  Code:

9464 | Orc:2    | Gained Judas as an ally
 

[ZoFy]

Outside of the easiest races, consider HE for an Abyssal Knight: just pick up the first bow you find and kite dangerous melee threats with Lugonu's Blink.
As for Ely worshipers, Felids are surprisingly good at this, despite the meh Invo aptitude. Slow metabolism with Carnivore 3 means they have little problems with spamming Ely's abilities, and good speed usually allows for easy escape. Yes, killing dudes are their weak side, but they are not forced to do this as much as other healers, coming as close to a pure healer as it's possible, and there's always Divine Vigour if you're desperate. Evocable/quaffable rage + Purification is a nice combo as well. For Zot:5, you have cBlink (and Disjunction in Trunk), all the buffs, self-healing, life-saving (active and passive) and multiple lives

[Davion Fuxa]

I can already hear cerebovssquire in this thread, and he hasn't even posted yet! YAVP FeHe: worst combo ever

[ZoFy]

Well, most of the players can't stand felids, which is understandable, but at the same time i can see crate in that thread stating it's hard to lose as FeHe. However, i can't understand all cerebovssquire's complaints about his felid being constantly near starving. Were nausea/carnivore mechanics changed in 0.12 or something?

[crate]

FeHe is no fun at all. I would never recommend it to anyone.

Here are other healers where it is hard to lose: all of them.

[cerebovssquire]

I can already hear cerebovssquire in this thread, and he hasn't even posted yet!

Did someone say FeHe!?

Well, most of the players can't stand felids, which is understandable, but at the same time i can see crate in that thread stating it's hard to lose as FeHe. However, i can't understand all cerebovssquire's complaints about his felid being constantly near starving. Were nausea/carnivore mechanics changed in 0.12 or something?

Do you have actual experience with felids that use high-hunger abilities without gourmand (Be does not count) or are you assuming this from your experience with kobolds and trolls? Carnivore 3 does nothing to your nausea. You need saprovore for that (which also allows you to eat rotten meat), which Ko/Tr have but Fe don't. It's basically the same as being a human except you can eat meat until Engorged. This is also why gourmand is so useful for FeHe.
If you have played such felids please share your secrets to prevent FeHe players from suffering.

[ZoFy]

Do you have actual experience with felids that use high-hunger abilities without gourmand (Be does not count) or are you assuming this from your experience with kobolds and trolls? Carnivore 3 does nothing to your nausea. You need saprovore for that (which also allows you to eat rotten meat), which Ko/Tr have but Fe don't. It's basically the same as being a human except you can eat meat until Engorged. This is also why gourmand is so useful for FeHe.
If you have played such felids please share your secrets to prevent FeHe players from suffering.

I have some experience, otherwise i wouldn't have started this talk at all. A FeMo of Ely was the only Ely worshiper i got off the ground and won with, despite being non-experienced and bad at exp- and food-management with more humanoid healers. So, my point is: "if i managed this, why another player can't?" Hunger is one of the reason why i'd prefer FeHe to a HuHe, and I just don't recall severe hunger problems with that felid of Ely, as well as any sophisticated secrets regarding that... Maybe i was just running around with gourmand for a huge part of the game, i don't even remember.

Spoiler: show

Actually started a FeHe to refresh the memories. Yes, the part before Lair was kind of suffering because of Ely's particularities and cat's HP. Died two times, and one of the deaths actually features inability to heal due to starvation. But that's like "whatever, i still got at least two lives in reserve, ****** piety and 15 Invo after Lair, so no more resource deficit". inb4 "felid players in a nutshell" remark.
Also, found an amulet of gourmand on D:9, but swapped it with a {Cons +Inv rElec rPois} randart on Lair:4 just to see whether i'd have hunger problems later.

[cerebovssquire]

I had a lot of problems around mid-late D, in Spider, in Vaults, and I didn't even do Orc before gourmand because it would have starved me. Maybe I just got unlucky with yaktaur spawning. I would have definitely starved if I hadn't acquired food at least 2 times, and I was more comfortable doing it 3 or 4 times. Maybe I should have trainer better melee earlier on.
And yeah, the fact that even though things might be unfun and going horribly, you're still going to win no matter what is awful - it means felid suffering will continue for hours

[ZoFy]

Spoiler: show

For the record: just cleared Orc after Lair, ate 2 rations there. My reserves of food are quite large: 4 meat rations, 10 honeycombs, 2 cheese and 9 royal jellies (food acquirements, hell yeah), so i'm not going to die from starvation any time soon. Nausea was quite annoying in Orcish Mines indeed, and once i had to run from Orc:4 vault because of being starving (and cocky). So benefits of gourmand are clearly noticeable, but now it seems possible to survive without it.

Anyways, it's not a CIP thread of mine, so i'll just blame your luck which made your FeHe game significantly harder than FeMo of Chei (which i also tried, without much success)... and deter myself from seriously recommending felids to players since no one can tolerate them.

[Baldu]

It`s a little weird you are having trouble with kiku as it`s such a powerful god. You said you were having mana issues when you have corpses on demand and sublimation? My guess is you arent sufficiently abusing kiku`s corpse delivery service. Remember they cost little piety, can be raised to provide a frontline or escape route, can be chopped and used for sublimation or simulacrums, can provide nutrition for high level spells with low spellcasting or intelligence, and can be turned into miasma.

[Psieye]

You're not guaranteed the sub.blood or simulacrum. 0.12 Kiku demands some flexibility. Fortunately, most Necromancy tools are awesome with corpse delivery.