Needles of Sickness

[Igxfl]

I'm currently running a Kobold Berserker as a needlestabber, and I was struck by the general lameness of needles of sickness compared to the other needle brands. Is there some cool niche use for them I'm missing?

[Buta]

They're no curare, but are nice in conjunction with poison against trolls and other monsters with hyperactive health regeneration.

[KoboldLord]

They are for monsters to use on you. They are highly annoying without being particularly dangerous. In your hands, they will stop trolls from regenerating, but this ridiculously niche application isn't likely to be worth an inventory slot at any point in the game.

[XuaXua]

They are for monsters to use on you.

That's great! Except, I've never once had a monster use them on me. They're always just on the floor, and the chances of a monster with a blowgun with either no ammo or ammo it doesn't prefer to the needles of sickness walking over the sickness needles stash to pick it up is pretty much UNLIKELY%.

[danr]

They are for monsters to use on you.

In Soviet Russia, monsters use you on needles!

Did I do it right?

[SchwaWarrior]

That's great! Except, I've never once had a monster use them on me. They're always just on the floor, and the chances of a monster with a blowgun with either no ammo or ammo it doesn't prefer to the needles of sickness walking over the sickness needles stash to pick it up is pretty much UNLIKELY%.

Suggestion for Crawl version 12: Sonja sometimes spawns with Sickness needles instead of Curare (like how sometimes she uses a Venom dagger and sometimes it's Distortion).

And if not that, perhaps give deeper-level (Big) Kobolds a chance to spawn with Sickness needles or other types besides normal Poison? I never ever see Beserk Frenzy needles get used-- it'd be hilarious to be playing a Deep Elf spellcaster and encounter a pack of Kobolds at like D:15 and think "Awww cute, he thinks he's people!" and then BAM BESERK FRENZY SUCKA and then OH HEY NOW YAKS AND CENTAURS ARE CHASING ME OH GOD I CAN'T CAST REPEL MISSILES AAAAAAA

On that note, why not a new type of Kobold or two? Orcs and Elves have several variations, the Gnolls recently got a few new variations, but there's just Kobolds and Big Kobolds and VERY SELDOMLY we see Kobold Demonologists... Perhaps deeper level packs of Kobolds could come rounded out with a couple Kobold Stalkers which specialize in blowguns, and may cast weak spells like Blink or Swiftness-- sorta like mini-Sonjas, meant to soften or cripple you so stronger foes nearby can steamroll you better.

Anyway, if I have Curare and Sickness needles handy, I usually use up all the Sickness needles before I use the Curare needles-- and yes, I use them together with poison so that enemies can't heal off their damage if I decide I want to stall them and win. They're actually pretty good-- in my opinion they're more useful than Sleep needles, but then again that's because I like to kill everything I encounter instead of "play it safe".

But of course I hardly ever play a needle-oriented character... but maaan now I want to XDD

[Jabberwocky]

Stalkers were removed so kobold stalkers wouldn't really make sense.

[cerebovssquire]

For a character specialising in needles, needles of sleeping are the second best needles, after paralysis. You use them right next to a monster, and then you one-shot it in its sleep. This requires sufficient stabbing skill, of course, but as a needlestabber you will have that. This works on pretty much any non-undead non-unliving opponent, which is why needlestabbing is so good in extended - demons are vulnerable.

[Jabberwocky]

For a character specialising in needles, needles of sleeping are the second best needles, after paralysis. You use them right next to a monster, and then you one-shot it in its sleep. This requires sufficient stabbing skill, of course, but as a needlestabber you will have that. This works on pretty much any non-undead non-unliving opponent, which is why needlestabbing is so good in extended - demons are vulnerable.

They weren't asking about sleeping, they were asking about sickness.

[BlackSheep]

They're actually pretty good-- in my opinion they're more useful than Sleep needles, but then again that's because I like to kill everything I encounter instead of "play it safe".

CS was responding to this.

[Kersallus]

Needlestabber is a viable build?
I wanted to make a blowgun character as homage to teemo.

[nordetsa]

Needlestabber is a viable build?
I wanted to make a blowgun character as homage to teemo.

Hmm, and perhaps worshiping fedhas so you can plant fungus everywhere?

[rchandra]

Needlestabber is quite viable - you'll want tons of throwing, 27 sooner than you might think. There's one or two good threads on the build elsewhere on the forum. Trog is probably the best god for it because of ammo gifts - I think you get more of them than Okawaru, but I'm not certain. Without divine gifts it might not be feasible in most games (acquire ammo??).

I'm also not sure how the ammo changes play in - you have more reliability early, but you can't make a stack of 12 +6 needles of paralysis etc.

[njvack]

Well, you certainly won't have any +6 needles of anything anymore