Ziggurat Zagger
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?EW on Enhancer Staves (was: Rods as maces)
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
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Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Barkeep
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XuaXua wrote:I fully believe enchant scrolls should be usable on Enhancer Staves. It's a staff; it's always at +0/+0. It's sometimes treated as branded, depending on the staff. Why do only rods get this benefit (double-benefit since it's one value and submitted through recharge scrolls)?
Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:XuaXua wrote:I fully believe enchant scrolls should be usable on Enhancer Staves. It's a staff; it's always at +0/+0. It's sometimes treated as branded, depending on the staff. Why do only rods get this benefit (double-benefit since it's one value and submitted through recharge scrolls)?
Enhancer staves are already pretty awesome. The branding is generally better than normal brands.
It might be kind of neat if they were less awesome off the ground but could be enchanted to provide both better combat and better enhancing stuff
Abyss Ambulator
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Barkeep
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TwilightPhoenix wrote:On the other hand, right now if you find an enhancer staff early enough, you can beat jellies to death with them without risking your regular weapons since they can't be corroded.
Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:Anyhow, I don't think jelly-bashing utility is common enough to be a big push either way on this issue...
Barkeep
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Abyss Ambulator
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njvack wrote:Wait, is this really a thing? I've always thrown rocks at them, because I don't much like my armour getting corroded either.
Anyhow, I don't think jelly-bashing utility is common enough to be a big push either way on this issue...
Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:I'm still not totally sold that the benefit would be worth the added complexity, though. I suspect their lack of enchantability isn't some random omission...?
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XuaXua wrote:njvack wrote:I'm still not totally sold that the benefit would be worth the added complexity, though. I suspect their lack of enchantability isn't some random omission...?
What complexity? Enhancer staves actually make things more complex as it stands by being the sole exception to the rule (not counting artefacts).
Ziggurat Zagger
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mageykun wrote:Okay. Let's look at this logically. Currently, magic staves are un-enchantable. This has the following effects:...
- They're corrosion proof. This has limited use, but is mostly moot as staff wielding casters have other ways to deal with jellies.
- Casters use spells on jellies instead of their staves (because they've lost the corrosion protection).
Ziggurat Zagger
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mageykun wrote:Okay. Let's look at this logically. Currently, magic staves are un-enchantable.
...
What changes occur if we make staves enchant-able?
...
None of which is particularly interesting. Enchanting staves for melee doesn't add any depth.
Now, if we allow enchantment and tie the magic effects of the staff to the enchantment level, you effect balance. You can nerf or buff staves by what enchantment level is made equivalent to today's standard (ie- does a staff of fire now equate to tomorrows +0 staff of fire, or +9?), and further by how you scale the changes between levels. This gets complicated quickly though, as you'd have to introduce fractional versions of all the staff boosts and bonuses- things like fire boosts and wizardry that as of now stack in neat increments that are fairly easy for the player to count. I'm not sure confusing that adds anything or is desirable.
If we use scrolls of charging instead of enchant weapon, it improves the situation slightly, in that you're faced with the interesting decision of powering up your magic enhancer, or keeping useful wands full. The problems of balance and complexity still apply though.
Barkeep
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mageykun wrote:If we use scrolls of charging instead of enchant weapon, it improves the situation slightly, in that you're faced with the interesting decision of powering up your magic enhancer, or keeping useful wands full.
Ziggurat Zagger
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minmay wrote:Also your proposal doesn't even solve this "problem" because generally one of the staves is going to be higher enchanted which will make the other one useless anyway.
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mageykun wrote:I'm really not sold on why you think duplicate staves are a common problem we need to fix by making them more differentiable. You almost never find one of each staff per game, and you're lucky to see two of some of them.
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