Limiting stat-stick swapping


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Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 19th July 2019, 11:47

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 12:28

Limiting stat-stick swapping

The problem: swapping artifact stat-sticks is optimal, but not interesting or fun.

Proposed solution: artifacts take 2.0 turns (or more) to wield or unwield.


Possible flavour justifications: "Artifacts require special handling methods", "The Plog's spirit resists!".

EDIT: I was actually talking about only changing weapon artifacts, which indeed would be inconsistent with ring swapping.
Last edited by yastp on Friday, 19th July 2019, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1000

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 12:48

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

Or do not generate stat-sticks...

As an example, I think that resistances should only occur on items that are slow to change, so you do not need to swap them according to the enemy.

Tomb Titivator

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Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 13:20

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

Then what's left for rings to do?
And what to do about weapons which are very effective against some targets but not others?

For what it's worth, I think that the small delay minimises swapping nuisance. If it took a long time (even a whole action) you wouldn't want to swap in-combat, so you'd have to think about swapping out-of-combat all the time.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4426

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 13:40

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

yastp wrote:The problem: swapping artifact stat-sticks is optimal, but not interesting or fun.

Proposed solution: artifacts take 2.0 turns (or more) to wield or unwield.


Possible flavour justifications: "Artifacts require special handling methods", "The Plog's spirit resists!".


1) Swapping stat-sticks is almost useless. You are not going to switch to Str+3, Dex+3, Int+3 just because some monster came into view. "Almost" because you still may want to use that +Int item for casting spells and then switch to +slay or better weapon when out of mana.
2) Swapping resists should be fast enough, otherwise it becomes useless too: nobody will think like "Fire dragon came into view, now I need to spend 3 turns doing nothing to swap to rF+".

If you basically don't like swapping, there is a god designed for that, it makes you stronger as long as you don't swap items.
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Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 19th July 2019, 11:47

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 15:28

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

sanka wrote:Or do not generate stat-sticks...

As an example, I think that resistances should only occur on items that are slow to change, so you do not need to swap them according to the enemy.


I agree, but decided to pick a middle ground so this would have a higher chance of consideration.

petercordia wrote:Then what's left for rings to do?
And what to do about weapons which are very effective against some targets but not others?

For what it's worth, I think that the small delay minimises swapping nuisance. If it took a long time (even a whole action) you wouldn't want to swap in-combat, so you'd have to think about swapping out-of-combat all the time.


Rings are precisely your "fast-swap-stat-stick" slot and my proposal only accentuates that.
You still can freely swap non-artefact branded and enchanted weapons. Which kinda makes sense to me: in weapon slot you swap damage types (offensive stats), in armour slot you swap defensive stats and rings swap resists and physique stats.
Or think about swapping in combat, which is why i thought of suggesting a 1.5 or 2.0 turns swap instead of 5: where would be a meaningful cost and a meaningful decision to make. But yes, swapping would still be a nuisance.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
1) Swapping stat-sticks is almost useless. You are not going to switch to Str+3, Dex+3, Int+3 just because some monster came into view. "Almost" because you still may want to use that +Int item for casting spells and then switch to +slay or better weapon when out of mana.
2) Swapping resists should be fast enough, otherwise it becomes useless too: nobody will think like "Fire dragon came into view, now I need to spend 3 turns doing nothing to swap to rF+".

If you basically don't like swapping, there is a god designed for that, it makes you stronger as long as you don't swap items.


I made a proposal to make stat/resistance swap on a weapon in combat not a thing. You still have rings for resistance swapping.

Yes, it was a spellcaster what broke my back: it felt bad not to and annoying otherwise to swap my int-stick with an actual weapon and other stuff.

I wouldn't severely limit my game experience because of that (ash doesn't even exist in hellcrawl)- i would just stop doing the thing.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 136

Joined: Saturday, 10th January 2015, 22:27

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 16:49

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

Probably make the most sense to just change which properties can generate on which types of items, even artefacts. After all, we already have settings so that, say, running doesn't generate on rings, and guardian spirit doesn't generate on weapons.

So make it such that defensive properties only generate on armor and jewelry (e.g. rF+) and offensive properties only generate on weapons and jewelry (e.g. slaying).

Temple Termagant

Posts: 7

Joined: Friday, 19th July 2019, 11:47

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 18:15

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

I was wondering why people mentioned rings in replies and then I realised I completely forgot about artifact rings, while I was talking about making only weapon artifacts take longer to swap. Sorry about the mistake.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1189

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Friday, 19th July 2019, 21:24

Re: Limiting stat-stick swapping

Magical staves are designed to be spell-enhancing sticks. Yes, some of them can be decent melee weapons, but others can't. Using a club with +10 Int instead doesn't seem any different than staves of conjurations, summoning, power, or energy.

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