Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4055
Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49
If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4055
Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
MainiacJoe wrote:DS's damage formula is 2d(8+P/4) max 50. IMB's is 2d(6+P/6) max 100. )
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
crate wrote:Since spray is (more reliably) multi-target and also has a strong hex attached it should do very little damage (alternatively, make the hex very weak and make it do sort-of-ok damage, like maybe throw flame damage to each target). The fact that it's even close to IMB (which costs more MP per cast) is ridiculous. Spray with its current hex attached should probably do like at most like 1/4 to 1/3 the damage of IMB, instead of nearly 100% even in the worst reasonable comparison for Spray (half spellpower of IMB).
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4055
Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1822
Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45
Siegurt wrote:MainiacJoe wrote:DS's damage formula is 2d(8+P/4) max 50. IMB's is 2d(6+P/6) max 100. )
That's actually wrong:
Dazzling spray:
Both use the "figure out the dice from the max damage" method, for DS it's P/4 for max damage, and for IMB it's P/3 for max damage, both use 2 dice, DS adds 8 to the min, IMB adds 12.
That results in:
DS: 2d(4+P/8)
and
IMB: 2d(6+P/6)
IMB is just flat out better at all power levels.
crate wrote:Really cj should probably still just have meph :p
Zot Zealot
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19
Blades Runner
Posts: 616
Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
svendre wrote:No one has yet mentioned one of the main benefits of throw flame/frost instead of oh I can conjure flame if I need:
Throw flame's range plays well with a more stealthy build. When you first encounter a target, if it's at maximum range and sleeping, you can potentially fire at it before it wakes up, and take the large accuracy bonus. Secondly, beginning the engagement at longer range means you have more time to launch damage until the creature is at close range, and you have more time to decide to run away if too many other enemies show up on the scene. You can use it as a puller to extract a smaller number of enemies from a safer position. Conjure flame will only actually kill the monster if you stick around for it to get in close range or else it's difficult to maintain it in LOS to prevent it from dissipating. This mean you may have to wait longer and deal with other monster nearby that wakes up or hears noise generated by the attacker. Just casting conjure flame to escape leaves the problem monster alive for a future encounter which may just be worse, coupled with more enemies. Also, you still need some sort of corridor to effectively use the conjured flame. Throw flame's range also is quite useful in water areas such as shoals for creating steam to do damage and/or block LOS.
This is not in any way to say that conjure flame isn't a great spell, because it absolutely is. It's just not an equal substitute for tactics where throw flame shines.
Blades Runner
Posts: 616
Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19
Siegurt wrote:svendre wrote:No one has yet mentioned one of the main benefits of throw flame/frost instead of oh I can conjure flame if I need:
Throw flame's range plays well with a more stealthy build. When you first encounter a target, if it's at maximum range and sleeping, you can potentially fire at it before it wakes up, and take the large accuracy bonus. Secondly, beginning the engagement at longer range means you have more time to launch damage until the creature is at close range, and you have more time to decide to run away if too many other enemies show up on the scene. You can use it as a puller to extract a smaller number of enemies from a safer position. Conjure flame will only actually kill the monster if you stick around for it to get in close range or else it's difficult to maintain it in LOS to prevent it from dissipating. This mean you may have to wait longer and deal with other monster nearby that wakes up or hears noise generated by the attacker. Just casting conjure flame to escape leaves the problem monster alive for a future encounter which may just be worse, coupled with more enemies. Also, you still need some sort of corridor to effectively use the conjured flame. Throw flame's range also is quite useful in water areas such as shoals for creating steam to do damage and/or block LOS.
This is not in any way to say that conjure flame isn't a great spell, because it absolutely is. It's just not an equal substitute for tactics where throw flame shines.
Note that while I agree with a lot of what you have to say here (throw flame is a good and useful spell) but conjure flame can actually be used without a corridor, you just need to use more than one at a time, knowing how monsters move and how you can manipulate them with conjure flame is a large part of it's power.
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