SpBe

[mrthehoople]

I'm really enjoying spriggan berserker. So far it seems hugely overpowered - my +5 sling of venom with +3 dex is basically destroying everything so far - and now with a +6 ring of Str I can pretty much take anything out with a +7 rapier of protection. I've completed dungeon to 15, orc and lair without even coming close to dying - the minute anything looks remotely scary I can just wander off. I've found some fire dragon scales and a +2 buckler, I've bought hat of the bear spirit and I've acquired a rod of shadows. The only thing so far remotely scary would be the food clock, but I have 15 bread in my pack so I'm good for a little while yet...

BUT. I am worried about the late game facing large numbers of heavily armoured opponents. I'm prepared for lots of breaking up packs and walking away etc but I can see vaults, depths and especially zot being very difficult. I'll avoid V5 altogether and get the abyssal rune but I have absolutely no idea how I'll take out OOF in zot with a puny rapier.

To the extent that I'm looking at the +2 demon whip of freezing I found on D8 and wondering whether to invest 12 skill at -3 aptitude in M&F just to give me a bit more melee power. Or even ditching the buckler (and the 7.2 skill I invested in that) and maybe getting a demon sword somewhere given that I already have some skill in LB and it's only -1 rather than -3. What does the tavern think?

[acoolguy]

I would stick to the short blade as the demon whip isn't that much better. Trog will eventually grant you other shortblades as well. A good shortblade (preferably antimagic), with a might potion and a few brother in arms can take out orbs of fire. If trog doesn't give you a relevant weapon gift, you could transition to a demon blade if you would like. If you get to Zot, my general recommendation is to dive Zot 1 - 4 (don't full clear) and only clear 2 of the lungs.

[VeryAngryFelid]

I'd recommend going for the demon whip. As far as I understand it is the only demon weapon which is 1h for Sp. Otherwise stay with short blades as Trog is very likely to give you a demon blade eventually, especially if you start training Long Blades. Basically there is too much XP in the game for SpBe, my guy got this in 3 rune game:

  Code:

* Level 24,5 Fighting
 - Level 10,0(16,1) Short Blades
 - Level 16,0(16,5) Long Blades
 + Level 17,0 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 26,6 Stealth
 + Level 17,5 Evocations

I am sure getting 12 levels in M&F would not be too hard.

[tealizard]

The demon whip will be much better for general combat than any short blade you're likely to get. -3 aptitude should not scare you away from an early demon whip for a melee-oriented spriggan. And indeed, it is 1-handed spriggans.

[mrthehoople]

Sorry about the double post, not sure what happened there... think I will go with the demon whip...

[Siegurt]

JFFI the following weapons are one handed for spriggans:
Demon Whip
Eveningstar
Demon Blade
War axe
Spear
WyrmBane(lance)
hand crossbow
And these are two handed for spriggans:
Trident
Demon trident
Double sword
Enhancer Staff (Staff of fire etc)
Broad Axe
Arbelist
Triple crossbow
The following weapons are unusable for spriggans:
Battleaxe, Executioner's Axe
Great Sword, Triple Sword
Dire flail, Great mace
Halberd/Glaive/Bardiche
Longbow

[Rast]

So far it seems hugely overpowered - my +5 sling of venom

That would carry any race/class through Dungeon,Lair,Orc if trained up to min delay.

[svendre]

I'd also suggest you train the demon whip.

[petercordia]

I'd aim for a Fustibalus instead of a demon whip.

[mrthehoople]

Thanks all. Just to say I went for the demon whip and it really made the difference for melee. OOFs were easily killable with might and haste quaffed - I was careful to split packs and isolate oof- I’m sure 2 of them together would have trashed me easily.

I think I’ll go for formicid Be next, though I have a feeling that one won’t be too bad.... wondering what weapon type to go for. Maybe axes...

[mopl]

It seems that you made it out with your SpBe, but for other ones that might try this, I suggest an abusive use of throwing and blowgun.
Trog should gift nice needles (confuse and para). It allows you to destroy extended and laugh at every unique so easily...

[TheMeInTeam]

I never thought about the gift rates for throwing. For species that can't use javelins, does this increase the rate at which you receive needles as ammo? If so that's pretty nasty, especially because while tomahawks are inferior to javelins they still hit pretty hard at high throwing. Surprisingly only Mu and Vp have throwing aptitudes below -1, though this isn't a particularly special distinction for mummies...

[Airwolf]

Axes are nice for formicids because you're a bit more likely to be fighting multiple enemies at once, but the other choices are fine, too. (Not short blades.) Use a ranged option often, too.

The gift code adds tomahawks with weight 50, needles with weight 75, javelins with weight 100 if you can use them, and large rocks with weight 100 if you can use them. So yes, smaller species get a ton more needles than medium species.

See _acquirement_missile_subtype() in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/mas ... acquire.cc

[mopl]

I like axes for Qazlal formicids, but with your digging ability, you're often able to fight in kill holes. That's why I favor polearms or M&F more.
You can also go with staves and use massive extra xp for defenses and ranged (throwing or xbows imho)

[mrthehoople]

It seems that you made it out with your SpBe, but for other ones that might try this, I suggest an abusive use of throwing and blowgun.
Trog should gift nice needles (confuse and para). It allows you to destroy extended and laugh at every unique so easily...

That's not an approach I had thought of. In any case I got that venom sling early so went with slings. Next time I play a spriggan though I'll definitely go throwing, I hadn't thought that I'd get loads of needles if javelins weren't available

[mrthehoople]

I splatted a staff wielding formicide by accidentally eating meat rather than quaffing healing somewhere in depths with 2 runes won. I think I massively underused kill holes so will use that more next run.. Still haven't quite decided what to go with from a melee perspective. Staves were nice and I got a usable early quarterstaff, but might go M&F next time