Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour


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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 03:30

Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f ... f2b944bb23

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 03:44

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Wow, that's a big change.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 03:58

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Good change

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 06:48

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Good change. It is a huge felid (and spriggan) nerf though, as currently they are still fast with Ozo's on. Also this change makes it almost useless with WJC. Incidentally, I'm currently playing a FeIE of WJC who casts Ozo's before most fights...
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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 08:30

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Good change, now players don't need to cast the spell before entering new level. This does not solve problem with casting the spell before opening a door though. I don't see why the spell has not been removed along with Phase Shift.

Edit. Or moved to Transmutations and probably added extra penalties.
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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 13:31

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Obviously we need to have buffs in the game that only provide a benefit when the player is standing in a one-tile-wide corridor or has already lured a monster far away from any potential complicating monsters. That's exactly the situation where the player needs a defense boost, and definitely the tactical situation the player needs more encouragement to stay in at all times.

The problem with Ozocubu's Armour was that it was annoying to put up and encouraged tedious behavior. The attempted solution is to make this problem dramatically worse. I would have preferred that it work passively like the demonspawn mutation, but if that's a no-go just remove it.

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 15:34

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

I was always surprised that Stoneskin got entirely axed from the game a while back, but its "frosty counterpart" survived the trimming with only a modest nerf.

OA has always been a super irritating spell to actually use, despite its compelling benefits pre-nerf.

Maybe this new incarnation of it, + Regeneration Spell + Amulet of the Acrobat, might give some interesting opportunities to recoup HP while remaining stationary AND not worrying (as much) about getting ambushed by random wandering monsters who enter LOS while you are recovering from the last fight. Probably good vs. popcorn mobs, and if something truly nasty enters LOS, just retreat like normal to let Regeneration finish filling your HP reservoir.

EDIT: Ok, flavor-wise or no, I suppose I can't envision a stationary pillar of ice ducking, bobbing, weaving & rolling in any situation ...regardless of what the acrobat amulet normally does, but hey this is a fantasy computer game, so what the f$%k do I know. :)
Last edited by dolemite99 on Friday, 23rd March 2018, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 15:39

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Doesn't amulet of the acrobat only work whilst you're actively moving around, though? >_>

With this change it looks like something you only bother learning if you're truly desperate for AC like a felid or octopode, in which case it's now way more of a PITA to use than it used to be.

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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 15:42

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Tumalu wrote:Doesn't amulet of the acrobat only work whilst you're actively moving around, though? >_>

With this change it looks like something you only bother learning if you're truly desperate for AC like a felid or octopode, in which case it's now way more of a PITA to use than it used to be.


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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 15:53

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Does it work while blinking?
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Post Friday, 23rd March 2018, 20:32

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Actually the amulet does work while waiting, the reasoning in the commit being that you don't want to incentivize people to move back and forth instead of resting like normal. I don't think it works with blink: that's a reading action, not a moving one.

While we're on the topic, I think it's annoying that the amulet doesn't work while going downstairs—that seems like a movement action to me. It might be OP though.

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Post Saturday, 24th March 2018, 00:41

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

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Post Saturday, 24th March 2018, 03:51

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

EV buff spell that is broken if you stop moving

shit I think I just described acrobat

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Post Friday, 30th March 2018, 21:10

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Ick what an unfun and uninteresting "solution"

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Post Monday, 2nd April 2018, 16:55

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

Alternate version: casting ozo's causes you to immediately begin worshipping Chei, even if char is Dg. No wrath incurred, the message you get is "<old_god> takes pity on you"
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Post Saturday, 7th April 2018, 22:04

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Good change, now players don't need to cast the spell before entering new level. This does not solve problem with casting the spell before opening a door though. I don't see why the spell has not been removed along with Phase Shift.

Edit. Or moved to Transmutations and probably added extra penalties.

99% of the "problems" with buff spells like ozo or stoneskin or phase shift are actually problems with the mechanics of timed buffs as a whole, and would be easily fixed just by copying the "permabuff" mechanics from hellcrawl.

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Post Sunday, 8th April 2018, 01:34

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

genericpseudonym wrote:99% of the "problems" with buff spells like ozo or stoneskin or phase shift are actually problems with the mechanics of timed buffs as a whole, and would be easily fixed just by copying the "permabuff" mechanics from hellcrawl.

What are the permabuff mechanics from hellcrawl? NM just saw them in the hellcrawl thread. Bottom question stands though.

"A whole host of buff spells and all form spells have become "permabuffs" that reserve an amount of maximum mp that depends on their spell level and what your success rate would be. The effect continues until you choose to end it, you do something the spell is not compatible with (wear heavy armour with ozos for example), something drops your max mp below zero, or you equip something with the -cast property."

Is there a consensus answer for why the devs don't want that in DCSS? (If that's the case?)
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Post Sunday, 8th April 2018, 19:15

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

mattlistener wrote:
genericpseudonym wrote:99% of the "problems" with buff spells like ozo or stoneskin or phase shift are actually problems with the mechanics of timed buffs as a whole, and would be easily fixed just by copying the "permabuff" mechanics from hellcrawl.

What are the permabuff mechanics from hellcrawl? NM just saw them in the hellcrawl thread. Bottom question stands though.

"A whole host of buff spells and all form spells have become "permabuffs" that reserve an amount of maximum mp that depends on their spell level and what your success rate would be. The effect continues until you choose to end it, you do something the spell is not compatible with (wear heavy armour with ozos for example), something drops your max mp below zero, or you equip something with the -cast property."

Is there a consensus answer for why the devs don't want that in DCSS? (If that's the case?)


Well in my opinion it would definitely be more positive than negative, but the system does have some drawbacks (which the mainline devs apparently see as more serious/concerning than I do).
If buffs are already on from the beginning then there isn't the tactical cost of spending a turn to cast them, which affects balance. Also, since they're just kind of "set it and forget it", buff-focused characters can sometimes end up feeling/playing the same as standard boring magicless otabbers. Though their higher magic skills mean they have an easier time picking up additional useful non-buff spells too.

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Post Friday, 18th May 2018, 21:23

Re: Rip in pepperoni Ozocubu's Armour

njvack wrote:Alternate version: casting ozo's causes you to immediately begin worshipping Chei, even if char is Dg. No wrath incurred, the message you get is "<old_god> takes pity on you"

This, only seriously.

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