Pure caster advice


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Thursday, 11th January 2018, 21:29

Pure caster advice

Hi all,
after winning with a ranged character, an unarmed melee and a 15 rune DsGl^Chei with Shatter (but shatter went online quite late), I am trying to do a "Pure Caster".

My own (really simple) rules for this caster project are:
  1. No Chei - Chei is great and I love it, but makes hybridizing too easy to be considered a "pure caster"
  2. Book start - no GrGl branching into magic

My problem is that I would expect sometimes life to become easier, but it does not.

In order to have some armour, and ideally make it easier, I focused mostly on Dr and Gr. DrFE, DrAE, GrEE, GrFE.

My main problem is that you need to be always super-careful, stair-dancing, luring, and so on.
Your mana pool is so low (even when I have 25-30 MP, is still low) that you cannot afford to lose it in stupid ways.

Second problem, power of spells is low. Any sub-5 level spell is considerably weaker than any decent weapon trained to corresponding skill.

From level 5, spells become usable but the problem is that also monsters have a lot of HP.

For example: my best Fire Elementalist died in Lair:5. I hade to lure one by one every single elephant or yak. Death yaks are... death yaks. Hydras can be managed thanks to decent Gr armour and Sticky Flame. But you cannot use FIreball in melee range, so - either you kill everything in 3-4 shots, or you have to run. And, the problem is, that even a pack of yaks usually do not die in 3-4 fireballs.

My best EE (apart from a legendary a really lucky run that died in Shoals:5) usually arrive in mid-dungeon or mid-lair. Orc is a pain. LRD is perheaps the most flexible spell in the game, but is a bit low on power, and makes really a lot of noise. And if you do not get Iron Shot, you are dead. And even Iron Shot misses a lot.

Air Elementalists are my favourite starting background, because combine utility (swiftness) with "bolt-like" starting spells (shock and lightning bolt).
Here the problem is that Gr have a -2 aptitude, and my Dr usually die because of lack of GDR. I mean, I can melee really easily with a Dr, especially if you can find any +3/+4 weapon.
But then, you encounter a yak that has a lucky roll. And your health drops really really fast, even if you have 15AC.

My plan for skills usually is: train Spellcasting, and relevant magic skills, until the "level 5 spell" is online (under 7-8%).
Then add FIghting and weapon skill. Sometimes I throw in a buckler (really useful).

In the past I always had Vehumet as god, but started hating him for bad spell gift. Lastly I prefer SifMuna, the instant free-cast and miscast protection (and books, but I just received one book until now...) are better.

What can I do wrong?
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 603

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Thursday, 11th January 2018, 22:25

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:Second problem, power of spells is low. Any sub-5 level spell is considerably weaker than any decent weapon trained to corresponding skill.

first you need to understand this statement is completely false. saying that a skill 8-10 weapon is significantly better than freeze, conjure flame or the starting book summons (excluding guardian golem) is pretty baffling, and all the casters I've run (FE/EE/IE/Cj/Su) that aren't intentionally gimped (e.g. mfee) are capable of handling all of D, L, and O without casting a level 5 spell or training a melee weapon

d3k0 wrote:For example: my best Fire Elementalist died in Lair:5. I hade to lure one by one every single elephant or yak. Death yaks are... death yaks. Hydras can be managed thanks to decent Gr armour and Sticky Flame. But you cannot use FIreball in melee range, so - either you kill everything in 3-4 shots, or you have to run. And, the problem is, that even a pack of yaks usually do not die in 3-4 fireballs.

the strongest spell in the FE book is conjure flame, not fireball. you can kill the majority of dangerous monsters in lair with appropriate use of the spell

also fireball is fine in melee range, just don't aim at a space directly next to you, e.g.

  Code:
..*
@y.
...

if you aim at * you'll hit the y without hitting yourself

d3k0 wrote:Air Elementalists are my favourite starting background, because combine utility (swiftness) with "bolt-like" starting spells (shock and lightning bolt).
Here the problem is that Gr have a -2 aptitude, and my Dr usually die because of lack of GDR. I mean, I can melee really easily with a Dr, especially if you can find any +3/+4 weapon.
But then, you encounter a yak that has a lucky roll. And your health drops really really fast, even if you have 15AC.

for some reason players really like to ignore the fact that static discharge exists. it's a strong spell

d3k0 wrote:What can I do wrong?

I'm assuming you mean "what am i doing wrong", in which case your problem is that you're ignoring half of the spells in your starting book. your post says the sub-level 5 spells are weak but you never actually say "oh conjure flame is too weak, it takes 10 casts to kill a pack of yaks with it" (and if you had actually used the spell you'd realize that statement is wrong) so maybe you should try using those spells

For this message the author CanOfWorms has received thanks: 6
d3k0, duvessa, Majang, nago, RBrandon, VeryAngryFelid

Dis Charger

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Post Thursday, 11th January 2018, 23:25

Re: Pure caster advice

CanOfWorms wrote:the strongest spell in the FE book is conjure flame, not fireball. you can kill the majority of dangerous monsters in lair with appropriate use of the spell

The way you use sticky flame to kill monsters is super spoilery and counter-intuitive. You have to explain it (which is not short), or else this statement just baffles the target audience.
Edit: I mean conjure flame!
Last edited by Magipi on Friday, 12th January 2018, 06:19, edited 1 time in total.

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nago

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 02:15

Re: Pure caster advice

Magipi wrote:
CanOfWorms wrote:the strongest spell in the FE book is conjure flame, not fireball. you can kill the majority of dangerous monsters in lair with appropriate use of the spell

The way you use sticky flame to kill monsters is super spoilery and counter-intuitive. You have to explain it (which is not short), or else this statement just baffles the target audience.

I'm not sure how this comment relates, Conjure flame is very powerful, why does sticky flame factor into it?
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5193

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 02:18

Re: Pure caster advice

If you don't mind not having a god, demigods get +20% mana while still having +10% hp. I like to start them as conjurers because nothing can resist pure conjurations, so you have a lot of time to find more spellbooks, since you can't get a spell-gifting god. That being said you could always go with any mage background and just use a weapon for things that are immune, but if you want to go 'pure' caster, I'd take an unresistable damage type.

If you don't mind being physically weak, DE will get your spells online a lot faster, or take any of the "free armor" casters: Draconian/Gargoyle.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4002

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 04:52

Re: Pure caster advice

I don't get the Vehumet's gifts are bad part. Make sure you have Conjurations as your highest magic skill and then you don't depend on luck with spells. DrCj is very easy IMHO. I assume you don't mean pure caster as character who does not train Fighting/Dodging, that would be called glass cannon instead.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 06:13

Re: Pure caster advice

Wiki seems to be online again, so if you have not done so already, you may have a look at this: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Majang%27s_ ... lk-Through
Maɟaŋ

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 06:19

Re: Pure caster advice

OMG, I meant to write conjure flame. Sticky flame is straightforward and very powerful. But for conjure flame to be really good, you need to know tricks that are almost bugs. My bad.

bel

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 06:34

Re: Pure caster advice

Copy paste some of your morgues here (in "code" tags). It makes the advice more concrete. Often the thing you're doing wrong is not what you might consider plausible, but is something else altogether.

If you want to play "pure caster", and are having problems with MP, try DE. Any DE is good, but DECj (battlesphere) and DEFE (conjure flame) are the simplest. Try Vehumet, Sif or Kiku for gods. Don't neglect your Fighting.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 07:43

Re: Pure caster advice

note that Cj hasn't had battlesphere in the starting book since 0.20

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bel

Snake Sneak

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 10:44

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:I don't get the Vehumet's gifts are bad part. Make sure you have Conjurations as your highest magic skill and then you don't depend on luck with spells. DrCj is very easy IMHO. I assume you don't mean pure caster as character who does not train Fighting/Dodging, that would be called glass cannon instead.


No, I am perfectly conscious that I need both FIghting and a decent weapon.
Anyway, it's not easy to balance between Spellcasting, Cj, Elemental skill, Fighting, weapon skill.

This is one of the possible error I am making, since my Cj is usually on par with other skills, apart on EE (since LRD is pure Earth).
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 10:47

Re: Pure caster advice

First of all, thank you CanOfWorms for the Fireaball "melee range" advice, it's really a nice trick that I didn't think of. My bad... and kudos to you.

Secondly: how can you kill a yak pack with Conjure Flame? Intelligent monsters simply wait before entering the flame, so it's a nice "block" when you need to escape...but you can't conjure flame under a monster.... or you can? I am confused...
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 10:49

Re: Pure caster advice

Magipi wrote:OMG, I meant to write conjure flame. Sticky flame is straightforward and very powerful. But for conjure flame to be really good, you need to know tricks that are almost bugs. My bad.


If any of you could share these tricks, would be super-helpful :)
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 10:50

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:Anyway, it's not easy to balance between Spellcasting, Cj, Elemental skill, Fighting, weapon skill.


Well, pure caster is all about good tactics IMHO. Recently I played a DrCj of Vehumet with autotraining just to see how good or bad autotraining is and to my surprise it was a quite easy game despite my most trained skill was Spellcasting during whole game:

  Code:
Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Dodging        |     2              3        4     5     6              7                    8 10 | 10.2
Stealth        |     2           3     4     5           6                          7           9 |  9.2
Conjurations   |           5     6  7  8  9 11 12 13 14 15    16 17 18 19    20 21          22 25 | 25.6
Spellcasting   |              3  4  5  6  8  9 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21    22 23 24    27 | 27.0
Fighting       |                    1  2     3     4     5           6              7           9 |  9.0
Short Blades   |                          1     3  5        6     7     8           9             |  9.0
Air Magic      |                          1     2  3  4  6  7     8  9    10                11 12 | 12.0
Fire Magic     |                             1  2  3  5  6  7  8  9             10                | 10.7
Poison Magic   |                                1                                                 |  1.4
Shields        |                                   2     3     4        5     6        7       10 | 10.2
Translocations |                                      1                    2           3        4 |  4.7
Charms         |                                      1  2  3     4                          5  6 |  6.1
Necromancy     |                                               4  6  8  9 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 22 | 22.1
Ice Magic      |                                                     2  4     5              6  7 |  7.7
Evocations     |                                                        1                    2  3 |  3.0
Earth Magic    |                                                                 3  4  5        9 |  9.5
Long Blades    |                                                                    3  4  5  6 10 | 10.3
Throwing       |                                                                          1       |  1.0
Transmutations |                                                                          1       |  1.3
Maces & Flails |                                                                                  |  0.4
Staves         |                                                                                  |  0.8
Unarmed Combat |                                                                                  |  0.8
Hexes          |                                                                                  |  0.6
Summonings     |                                                                                  |  0.2


It didn't prevent me from casting iron shot, fireball, conjure ball lightning, bolt of draining, freezing cloud etc.:
  Code:
 Cast: Magic Dart        |    84 |   127 |   138 |   121 |    92 |       |       |       |       ||   562
       Searing Ray       |       |    15 |    45 |    24 |     1 |       |       |       |       ||    85
       Iskenderun's Myst |       |     6 |    41 |   136 |   151 |    21 |       |       |       ||   355
       Dazzling Spray    |       |     1 |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     3
       Shock             |       |       |     6 |    96 |   565 |   228 |    15 |    69 |    21 ||  1000
       Sticky Flame      |       |       |       |    85 |   108 |     4 |       |       |       ||   197
       Conjure Flame     |       |       |       |     8 |    22 |       |       |       |       ||    30
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |     5 |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     6
       Ignite Poison     |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Blink             |       |       |       |     3 |    14 |     1 |     8 |    12 |    15 ||    53
       Iskenderun's Batt |       |       |       |     1 |    86 |    86 |     7 |       |       ||   180
       Fireball          |       |       |       |       |   170 |    68 |    50 |   127 |    77 ||   492
       Conjure Ball Ligh |       |       |       |       |    13 |     2 |     9 |    10 |     4 ||    38
       Bolt of Draining  |       |       |       |       |     3 |   462 |   522 |   192 |   764 ||  1943
       Animate Dead      |       |       |       |       |       |    31 |    40 |    14 |    85 ||   170
       Freezing Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |    65 |    83 |    34 |    61 ||   243
       Passwall          |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |     3 ||     5
       Swiftness         |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |     1 ||     2
       Dispel Undead     |       |       |       |       |       |       |    55 |   333 |    79 ||   467
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |     6 |    18 ||    30
       Static Discharge  |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |       |       ||     5
       Orb of Destructio |       |       |       |       |       |       |    48 |    38 |    49 ||   135
       Death Channel     |       |       |       |       |       |       |     7 |     6 |    34 ||    47
       Iron Shot         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   151 |   264 ||   415
       Deflect Missiles  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     7 ||    10
       Ozocubu's Armour  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |    31 ||    32
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     2 ||     3
       Spectral Weapon   |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Summon Lightning  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 10:59

Re: Pure caster advice

bel wrote:Copy paste some of your morgues here (in "code" tags). It makes the advice more concrete. Often the thing you're doing wrong is not what you might consider plausible, but is something else altogether.

If you want to play "pure caster", and are having problems with MP, try DE. Any DE is good, but DECj (battlesphere) and DEFE (conjure flame) are the simplest. Try Vehumet, Sif or Kiku for gods. Don't neglect your Fighting.


LoL, again a "Conjure Flame" fan. Ok, I am really missing something here.

A GrFE that was quite good. Killed by a berserked Snorg with a teleport scroll and a blinking scroll in my backpack :oops: .

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21.0 (tiles) character file.

29015 Taki III the Destroyer (level 13, -3/76 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fire Elementalist on Jan 11, 2018.
             Was a High Priest of Sif Muna.
             Slain by Snorg (17 damage)
             ... on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts.
             The game lasted 01:25:12 (22927 turns).

Taki III the Destroyer (GrFE)                      Turns: 22927, Time: 01:25:12

Health: -3/76      AC: 17    Str: 13    XL:     13   Next: 42%
Magic:  18/33      EV: 15    Int: 22    God:    Sif Muna [*****.]
Gold:   762        SH:  0    Dex: 12    Spells: 10/27 levels left

rFire    + . .     SeeInvis .   a - +4 quarterstaff (freeze)
rCold    . . .     Gourm    .   (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   S - +2 robe {MR+}
rPois    ∞         Spirit   .   n - +0 helmet
rElec    +         Reflect  .   x - +1 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   M - +0 pair of gloves
MR       +....                  (no boots)
Stlth    ++........             (no amulet)
HPRegen  0.22/turn              O - ring of magical power
MPRegen  0.23/turn              G - +2 ring of intelligence

@: divine energy
A: agile 1, fire resistance 1, negative energy resistance 1, electricity
resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +9
a: Stop Divine Energy, Channel Magic, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion


You were on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worshipped Sif Muna.
Sif Muna was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 16 of its levels.

You collected 784 gold pieces.
You spent 22 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +4 quarterstaff of freezing (weapon)
 f - a +0 shortbow of flaming
 C - a +1 flail of protection
 E - a +4 mace
 K - a +4 trident
 Q - a +3 dagger of holy wrath
 T - a +1 mace of protection
Missiles
 h - 109 sling bullets
 k - 23 tomahawks (quivered)
 l - 259 arrows
 p - 359 stones
 t - 5 silver tomahawks
 u - 101 bolts
 y - 2 javelins
 X - 3 poisoned javelins
Armour
 n - a +0 helmet (worn)
 x - a +1 cloak (worn)
 F - a +0 robe
 M - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 S - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
 W - a +0 troll leather armour
 Y - a scarf of spirit shield
Magical Staves
 P - an uncursed staff of cold
Jewellery
 d - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 g - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 m - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 v - an uncursed ring of flight
 G - a +2 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 J - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 O - a ring of magical power (left hand)
Wands
 A - a wand of polymorph (3)
 D - a wand of flame (25)
 L - a wand of acid (7)
Scrolls
 i - 8 scrolls of remove curse
 j - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 r - a scroll of teleportation
 B - 2 scrolls of identify
 H - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
 V - a scroll of blinking
Potions
 b - a potion of might
 e - 2 potions of resistance
 o - 2 potions of brilliance
 q - 3 potions of lignification
 s - a potion of magic
 w - 7 potions of curing
 z - 3 potions of berserk rage
 N - a potion of haste
 U - 2 potions of agility
Books
 I - Sif Muna's Papyrus of Freezing Augmentations
   (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    b - Swiftness                    Charms/Air                    2
    c - Ensorcelled Hibernation      Hexes/Ice                     2
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Simulacrum                   Ice/Necromancy                6
    f - Ring of Flames               Charms/Fire                   7
Comestibles
 c - 19 rations
 R - 6 chunks of flesh


   Skills:
 + Level 7,3 Fighting
 * Level 6,8 Staves
 + Level 5,7 Dodging
 - Level 2,1 Stealth
 + Level 7,8 Spellcasting
 + Level 12,8 Conjurations
 - Level 2,6 Hexes
 - Level 2,4 Summonings
 + Level 12,2 Fire Magic


You had 10 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       1%          2    None
c - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ######..     1%          4    ###....
d - Call Imp              Summ           ###.....     4%          2    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ######....   1%          5    #####..
f - Confusing Touch       Hex            ###...       2%          1    None
g - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #.......     12%         2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (5/6) D:9
  Swamp (0/4) Lair:3        Snake (0/4) Lair:3     
 Slime: Lair:5-6       Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:6 !   D:8 *

Annotations:
D:3 Taki I's ghost, amateur DrAE
D:4 Taki III's ghost, amateur GrIE
D:9 1 transporter
Lair:5 Snorg


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
Your stone body is resilient. (AC +9)
You are immune to poison.
You resist negative energy. (rN+)
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
You are agile. (Dex +2)
Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+)


Message History

Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Sticky Flame
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Snorg
Aim: Snorg (heavily wounded, berserk, fast, unusually strong, covered in liquid flames)
The sticky flame hits Snorg.
Snorg is heavily wounded.
Snorg is covered in liquid flames! Snorg burns! Snorg barely misses you. Snorg claws you! Snorg closely misses you.
Snorg burns! Snorg bites you. Snorg claws you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Snorg claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Snorg burns!
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Aiming: Corrosive Bolt
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Snorg
Aim: Snorg (severely wounded, berserk, fast, unusually strong, covered in liquid flames)
The bolt of acid hits Snorg. Snorg is splashed with acid. The acid corrodes Snorg!
Snorg is severely wounded.
Snorg burns! Snorg misses you. Snorg claws you but does no damage. Snorg claws you!
You die...

             #..........##..#.
       ###.  .....PP...##.#...
       #...  ....PP##..#.#.P..
       #...###....P......#.P..
    #♣##....   ##.....P.......
    #P.##...### #.##...##....P
    #.....#...##  #..#.#....##
#####...#.##...# ##P..##..###
#..P..##.###...###...######
...........P....###..###
...†.....#....T@.#.....#
....##...........÷....##
...####.......#.......#
....###...###..#....###
P###...##..######.P.#
## ##..#####   #......
#   ####      #.#.#####
#             #####


You could see Snorg (berserk).

Vanquished Creatures
  5 hydras
  5 two-headed ogres
  3 death yaks (Lair:4)
  A manticore (D:10)
  An ugly thing (D:10)
  8 elephants (Lair:4)
  7 spiny frogs
  4 komodo dragons
  2 trolls
  2 polar bears
  Grinder (D:3)
  Prince Ribbit (D:5)
  13 blink frogs
  6 dream sheep (Lair:5)
  4 hippogriffs
  A shadow (D:10)
  A spriggan (Lair:4)
  A hungry ghost (D:9)
  3 vampire mosquitoes (Lair:3)
  Edmund (D:5)
  A naga (Lair:3)
  4 porcupines
  5 water moccasins
  4 orc warriors
  3 phantoms
  3 sky beasts
  3 black bears
  An ice beast (D:10)
  3 necrophages
  A hornet zombie (D:9)
  An ogre (D:7)
  5 centaurs
  17 wolves
  A big kobold (D:7)
  4 crocodiles
  9 bullfrogs
  4 scorpions
  A howler monkey (D:5)
  5 wights (D:8)
  A vampire bat (Lair:3)
  2 electric eels (Lair:2)
  2 crimson imps
  A bullfrog zombie (D:10)
  9 hounds
  4 jellies
  3 centaur skeletons
  Crazy Yiuf (D:5)
  3 orc priests
  3 bullfrog skeletons
  Jessica (D:2)
  5 worker ants
  11 orc wizards
  A howler monkey zombie (D:10)
  4 gnolls (D:5)
  8 adders
  2 shadow imps
  An ooze (D:1)
  2 adder skeletons (D:6)
  An adder zombie (D:7)
  5 worms
  A dart slug (D:2)
  3 leopard geckos
  28 orcs
  2 giant cockroaches
  7 goblins
  8 hobgoblins
  9 jackals
  14 kobolds
  A quokka (D:4)
  2 ball pythons
  13 bats
  5 frilled lizards
  A jackal zombie (D:6)
  A quokka zombie (D:6)
  13 rats
  A butterfly (Lair:1)
  A plant (Lair:2)
325 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  12 fungi
  4 plants
16 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 341 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Taki III the Gargoyle Fire Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 3/3
   179 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 12/15 MP: 5/5
   716 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 4/6
  1372 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
  1975 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  1988 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  1988 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 3/8
  2555 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/28 MP: 3/9
  2564 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  2840 | D:3      | Noticed a necrophage
  2849 | D:3      | Killed a necrophage
  2986 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  2997 | D:3      | HP: 1/28 [Grinder/nerve-wracking pain (7)]
  3000 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns
  3007 | D:3      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+) [potion of mutation]
  3007 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You are agile. (Dex +2) [potion of mutation]
  3020 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 5 turns
  3026 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  3026 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 14/32 MP: 1/12
  3112 | D:3      | Noticed Taki I's ghost (amateur DrAE)
  3125 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  3125 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 19/36 MP: 4/13
  3452 | D:3      | You fall through a shaft for 3 floors!
  3504 | D:6      | Found Naiseuhi's Distillery.
  3741 | D:6      | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp
  3747 | D:6      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
  4025 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4077 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  4224 | D:4      | Noticed Taki III's ghost (amateur GrIE)
  5144 | D:4      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  5145 | D:4      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  5155 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 13/15
  5201 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  5736 | D:5      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  5875 | D:5      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  5980 | D:5      | Noticed Edmund
  6040 | D:5      | Killed Edmund
  6220 | D:5      | Found a runed door.
  6224 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  6227 | D:5      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  6335 | D:5      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  6344 | D:5      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  7186 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 45/45 MP: 12/17
  7235 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7266 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7532 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder
  7843 | D:6      | Learned a level 1 spell: Confusing Touch
  8521 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Sif Muna
  9072 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
  9232 | D:8      | Found Vegey's Assorted Antiques.
  9238 | D:8      | Bought a scroll labeled JOGROH ATUN for 22 gold pieces
  9355 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  9574 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
  9590 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed ogre
  9590 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Sif Muna
  9590 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 32/50 MP: 7/18
  9882 | D:8      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  9903 | D:8      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
 10185 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 10753 | D:9      | Found a transporter.
 10759 | D:9      | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 10790 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 10790 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 11062 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11143 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11152 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11152 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 11241 | D:9      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
 11251 | D:9      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 11256 | D:9      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 11326 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 11417 | D:10     | Reached *** piety under Sif Muna
 11657 | D:10     | Noticed a purple ugly thing
 11682 | D:10     | Killed a purple ugly thing
 11967 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 11986 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 11986 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 14/54 MP: 6/19
 12616 | D:10     | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 12631 | D:10     | Killed a two-headed ogre
 12631 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 12631 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
 13507 | D:10     | HP: 1/58 [something (13)]
 13510 | D:10     | Reached **** piety under Sif Muna
 13782 | D:10     | Noticed a manticore
 13786 | D:10     | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 14108 | D:10     | Killed a manticore
 14225 | D:10     | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 14716 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16188 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 49/67 MP: 9/20
 16891 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 17198 | Lair:2   | You fall through a shaft!
 17198 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 17288 | Lair:2   | Reached ***** piety under Sif Muna
 17827 | Lair:2   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 17834 | Lair:2   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 17834 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
 17957 | Lair:2   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 17965 | Lair:2   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 17965 | Lair:2   | Identified Sif Muna's Papyrus of Freezing Augmentations (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17965 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 18084 | Lair:2   | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
 18251 | Lair:2   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 18264 | Lair:2   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 19079 | Lair:3   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 19091 | Lair:3   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 19481 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 20741 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 76/76 MP: 11/23
 21230 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 22888 | Lair:5   | Noticed Snorg
 22927 | Lair:5   | Slain by Snorg

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 |
---------------+----------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |     2     3  4     5  7  9 11 12       | 12,8
Spellcasting   |           3  4        5           6  7 |  7,8
Fire Magic     |           4     5     7  9 11    12    | 12,2
Hexes          |                          2             |  2,6
Summonings     |                          2             |  2,4
Fighting       |                                4  6  7 |  7,3
Staves         |                                4  6    |  6,8
Dodging        |                                   4  5 |  5,7
Stealth        |                                        |  2,1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Club              |    35 |       |       |       |       ||    35
       Mace              |    15 |    20 |    57 |       |       ||    92
       Quarterstaff      |       |       |    10 |   135 |    15 ||   160
Throw: Javelin           |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Tomahawk          |       |       |     5 |       |       ||     5
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    52 |    41 |   229 |   324 |    30 ||   676
       Throw Flame       |     1 |     2 |    48 |   188 |    62 ||   301
       Sticky Flame      |       |     2 |    10 |    25 |    28 ||    65
       Call Imp          |       |       |       |     5 |     6 ||    11
       Fireball          |       |       |       |     1 |     6 ||     7
Invok: Divine Energy     |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     6 |     1 ||     7
  Use: Potion            |       |     6 |       |     4 |       ||    10
       Scroll            |       |       |    15 |    10 |       ||    25
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |     4 |    22 |    19 |     7 ||    56
       Ration            |       |       |       |     7 |     1 ||     8
Armor: Robe              |    27 |     8 |    62 |   245 |    38 ||   380
       Skin              |       |    12 |       |       |       ||    12
Dodge: Dodged            |    47 |    17 |   113 |   331 |    72 ||   580
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4002

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 11:07

Re: Pure caster advice

I don't see any problems in the dump except lack of Conjure Flame. The spell is a bit random, some Yaks will enter the flame, other Yaks will not. When a monster is already in a cloud, it does not mind stepping into another cloud so it means you can have several Yaks in clouds simultaneously, Yaks usually move to attack you from a different direction in order to make room for other Yaks so you should make sure it will step into another cloud

Edit. Except training fire/conj was a bad idea unless you had a book with bolt of fire somewhere. But then you should have trained just spellcasting/fire/conj.
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 13:21

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Edit. Except training fire/conj was a bad idea unless you had a book with bolt of fire somewhere. But then you should have trained just spellcasting/fire/conj.


Could you please explain it a bit better? Why training Fire/Cj is a bad idea, since any single spell I have is Fire/Conj?

Edit: if you mean: "Why spellcasting is so low?" Answer is that I was trying to bring fireball online, and stopped training spellcasting. Then I forgot to put it again on training for a while... my bad.
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4002

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 13:32

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:Could you please explain it a bit better? Why training Fire/Cj is a bad idea, since any single spell I have is Fire/Conj?

Edit: if you mean: "Why spellcasting is so low?" Answer is that I was trying to bring fireball online, and stopped training spellcasting. Then I forgot to put it again on training for a while... my bad.


You already had all fire/conj spells at 1% failure rate. Later skill levels are much more expensive than early skill levels and also spell power is subject to stepdown so it is very inefficient to train magic skills just for spell power. It is better to train other skills with higher "return on investment", for this character that would be 1) fighting 2) dodging
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
Twin account of Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5193

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 19:05

Re: Pure caster advice

I don't use conjure flame all that often and I probably should abuse it more, but the basic trick (I'm sure there's other tricks) is to cast it in front of you in a hallway, blocking off the monster from reaching you. Then to get them to enter it, you cast any other cloud on top of them. I believe poisonous vapors works for this, although I'm not sure how long those clouds last for. Mephitic cloud is probably used more often? You just need to find any other cloud. Someone who actually plays this way more often can probably tell you more details.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5851

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 19:48

Re: Pure caster advice

Fcloud in a nutshell:

Option1: Cast FCloud in a hallway between you and the bad guy, poke them with a trident or hurl stones at them with a sling (it's fine using either one untrained through the lair) If they step into the flame, then you can beat on them (or cast spells at them) while they take massive cloud damage

Option2: Use another "hostile" cloud to move them, poisonous vapours and mephitic cloud are pretty effective as long as the target isn't poison resistant, a wand of clouds or steam clouds over water work (can be created with fCloud) well too

Option3: Use translocations (gell's gravitas or lesser beckoning) to pull them into the cloud

Option4: Build a wall of clouds, it takes several turns, but 2-3 clouds will block things the same way it does in a hallway (things won't take extra steps to walk around)

Those are the main "tricks"

"Will it step into the cloud?":
It will treat "step into the flaming cloud" just like an empty square for moving towards you purposes if:
1. It immune to fire
2. It unintelligent (skeleton or zombie, most jellies)
3. It already standing in a cloud that is "bad" (that it is not immune to)
Otherwise it will step into a flaming cloud if:
1. There is not an equally short non-cloudy path to get next to you. AND
2. It decides it's "tough enough" (A combination of hps, and random chance)

Bonus points for FE:

Use sticky flame to double down on damage for things standing next to you in a flaming cloud.
Use inner flame on things that *won't* step into the flame, so when you kill them, you can kill their buddies with the blast, and make more flame clouds (be very careful with this, if you inner flame something and it *does* step into the fire, you are probably in for a big old blast of fire to the face) You can combine conjure flame, inner flame and fireball for lots of damage very quickly to a large number of critters this way.
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d3k0, RBrandon, yesno

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 812

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Friday, 12th January 2018, 21:01

Re: Pure caster advice

Many enemies, like yaks, seems to be randomly step into the cloud or wait. I mean they decide every turn to step into the cloud or wait. So you can put flame clouds between a pack of yaks and yourself and press . to wait till all of them decides to step into the cloud and die.

Also, do not damage enemies before they enter the cloud, as when their hp is low they usually decide to stay outside.

The big thing with flaming cloud is to know which enemy how will behave around it. Some, like skeletons ignore it completly, they walk through it, so it's easy to kill them. Hydras also walk through them, so even in the open you can easily kill them if there are enough space between yourself and the hydra: just take a position so that it walks towards you in a straight line and put the clouds on that line.

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d3k0

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5851

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Saturday, 13th January 2018, 06:28

Re: Pure caster advice

sanka wrote:Also, do not damage enemies before they enter the cloud, as when their hp is low they usually decide to stay outside.

It's much better to kill things that can't damage you, than it is to kill things that can damage you, doing damage before they enter the cloud *and thereby preventing them from doing any damage to you before they die* is much better than killing them in a couple fewer turns. I suggest things like Halberds, tridents, and hunting slings as ways to kill things that "might or might not step into the flaming cloud"
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nago

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 812

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Saturday, 13th January 2018, 14:48

Re: Pure caster advice

I should have added: if you want to enter them to the cloud. A stronger enemy may not be killed fast enough with an untrained weapon, your conjure flame runs out and it steps next to you. Of course ranged damage is extremely useful with conjure flame if you can set it up for example with multiple flame clouds to gain sure distance etc, but I thought it is really evident. But there are a lot of times when I do want to step the monsters into the cloud, because it does way more damage than anything else I have, and I want them to die.

I should have added another thing that a new player may not realize: after you can cast sticky flame, you can focus on fighting and dodging for a long time. Because the better your defenses, the stronger monsters you can easily kill with conjure flame. You may start training defenses before sticky flame, I just usually do not bother, it's not that hard to cast it, and I like to have a little bit of spellpower with conjure flame so it does not runs out of time so quickly, and it is easier to use.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 386

Joined: Thursday, 26th March 2015, 01:22

Post Saturday, 13th January 2018, 17:05

Re: Pure caster advice

sanka wrote:A stronger enemy may not be killed fast enough with an untrained weapon, your conjure flame runs out and it steps next to you.

Just stand 3 spaces away (or back up when the cloud starts to wane).
If u have an unlimited patience for luring, it hardly matters how bad your untrained weapon is... but the sort of monsters that lose to this trick aren't the sort of things that are threatening by lair anyways.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 603

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Sunday, 14th January 2018, 00:25

Re: Pure caster advice

you can just blast the monster with flame tongue if they're not entering the conjured flame

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Sunday, 14th January 2018, 12:03

Re: Pure caster advice

I just want to thank you all for all the advices.
Conjure Flame is really really strong now that I learned to use it :)
I just had a really good run with a GrFE that was casting in FDA, cleared Lair, Orc and Dungeon, grabbed the Spider rune, entered Shoals, but was banished to Abyss:2 by Louise.
I've never been to Abyss with a caster, so I still have to get a feeling of how much dangerous monsters are. I hate Abyss.
In my case, I got cornered by a Daeva, killed it thanks to Conjure Flame and Bolt of Fire, then I was without mana, saw some other monsters arriving, and teleported.
Ended in a corner at 8 tiles from one of those purple stars that splattered me to death, tried to blink away, but was not enough.

Anyway, was a good run, and I roasted packs of yaks with Conjure Flame... as you said, it's really really easy. And conjure flame + trident of venom... really good :D
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 311

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Monday, 15th January 2018, 01:31

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:I just want to thank you all for all the advices.
Conjure Flame is really really strong now that I learned to use it :)
I just had a really good run with a GrFE that was casting in FDA, cleared Lair, Orc and Dungeon, grabbed the Spider rune, entered Shoals, but was banished to Abyss:2 by Louise.
I've never been to Abyss with a caster, so I still have to get a feeling of how much dangerous monsters are. I hate Abyss.
In my case, I got cornered by a Daeva, killed it thanks to Conjure Flame and Bolt of Fire, then I was without mana, saw some other monsters arriving, and teleported.
Ended in a corner at 8 tiles from one of those purple stars that splattered me to death, tried to blink away, but was not enough.

Anyway, was a good run, and I roasted packs of yaks with Conjure Flame... as you said, it's really really easy. And conjure flame + trident of venom... really good :D


So, you just figured out how to win with the "pure caster" more easily, which in this case was to wear FDA on a Gargoyle. The sad part though is that you could have had an easier time overall on that gargoyle without the casting portion. Your original question was valid, which essentially amounted to, how do I win a pure caster that doesn't have innate AC given to it, so that you don't need to pump STR and wear heavy armour. Your assessment that lower level spells aren't all that great compared to melee was correct because so many spells will do nothing to a portion of targets due to resists, etc. Melee doesn't suffer from this problem. The main problem overall isn't dealing damage as a caster, it's having squishy defenses in comparison. There are a few strategies which try to cope with this (without resorting to a gargoyle)

Plan #1: Get AC via magic
* Ozocubu's armour spell.. it's OK, I generally don't go this route though because I'm not much of a fan of ice magic.
* Statue Form, probably the most solid plan overall for getting a caster to a survivable level without needing to have STR and armour. It pairs well with some spells more than others.

Plan #2: Try to be a master of ranged stealth kiting
* Try an octopode of Gozag, grab the first jewelry shop you can
* You want the following items: +INT (lots and lots), Poison Arrow, +Stealth items, +Dex Items, Staff of energy
Basically what you're trying to do is range stealth stab stuff, then recharge your mana in-between fights.

Plan #3: Try to survive with fighting and dodging
* Lower your INT some and get a bit more DEX.
* Spend experience on fighting for a bit more health
* Probably get killed anyways

Plan #4: Take a god with life on kill, plus some or all of the previous plans
* Makleb if you're early on in the game and/or wearing and casting choices call for it
* TSO is strong in the extended game
* You might survive, don't expect your life to be easier than pure melee though. The one exception is that you can run zigs more easily with firestorm+tornado, so consider doing that and beating out the melee character with sheer XP and better quality items.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4002

Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51

Post Monday, 15th January 2018, 09:00

Re: Pure caster advice

svendre wrote:Plan #1: Get AC via magic
* Ozocubu's armour spell.. it's OK, I generally don't go this route though because I'm not much of a fan of ice magic.


That would be a hybrid because Ozo Armour kills pure casters which are out of MP
* Statue Form, probably the most solid plan overall for getting a caster to a survivable level without needing to have STR and armour. It pairs well with some spells more than others.


That would be a hybrid too. Statue Form not only prevents retreat but also makes casting spells suboptimal as it takes 1.5 turn instead of just 1 without any damage increase (unlike melee damage which is multiplied by 1.5 in statue form)

Plan #2: Try to be a master of ranged stealth kiting
* Try an octopode of Gozag, grab the first jewelry shop you can
* You want the following items: +INT (lots and lots), Poison Arrow, +Stealth items, +Dex Items, Staff of energy
Basically what you're trying to do is range stealth stab stuff, then recharge your mana in-between fights.


I am not sure what you mean as ranged stealth kiting. This way is how I typically play pure casters: spend 60+% mana, then retreat to restore mana. Stealth is not required though it does help of course.

Plan #3: Try to survive with fighting and dodging
* Lower your INT some and get a bit more DEX.
* Spend experience on fighting for a bit more health
* Probably get killed anyways


Again this is how I play pure casters. They must not be glass cannons, they must have pretty high Fighting and Dodging, then they can use Sticky Flame vs Elephant, Fireball vs Yaktaurs, probably even Silence vs Deep Elf Sorcerer.

Plan #4: Take a god with life on kill, plus some or all of the previous plans
* Makleb if you're early on in the game and/or wearing and casting choices call for it
* TSO is strong in the extended game
* You might survive, don't expect your life to be easier than pure melee though. The one exception is that you can run zigs more easily with firestorm+tornado, so consider doing that and beating out the melee character with sheer XP and better quality items.


I don't see how heal on kills helps here, pure casters still need to run away to restore MP. Or did you mean combining it with Sublimation of Blood?
Underestimated: cleaving, Deep Elf, Formicid, Vehumet, EV
Overestimated: AC, GDS
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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 311

Joined: Thursday, 25th October 2012, 03:19

Post Monday, 15th January 2018, 17:28

Re: Pure caster advice

Ozocubu's and Statue form still preserving the "pure caster" notion, because they aren't requiring STR for defenses. That you might run out of mana points is just one of the many pitfalls of spellcasting, but I don't think it puts you into the hybrid category. Also, that statue form buffs melee damage and slows you down also is not helpful for casting, but that's just how it goes. Just like how spellcasters can need a zillion different schools of magic to train for all this stuff to work well together, it's suboptimal versus a basic melee character. Still, not an issue of these spells making the character a hybrid though.

What I mean by ranged stealth kiting is having enough stealth that you get the drop on targets (find them in sleeping status), then use a spell with ample range, damage, ability to deal some damage to all monsters, and is quiet. The stealth component is reasonably important because the shots will hit more and you won't pull more hostiles with a noisy spell, so you have time to channel afterwards. Thus, mention of poison arrow. Sadly though, the spell was nerfed, and now it's nearly impossible to find in a spellbook.

Pretty high fighting on a "pure caster" is fairly wasteful in XP though, since you're mostly only doing it for the extra health, and that health isn't usually very well armoured. Dodging is a pretty reasonable defense for casters, except when it doesn't work you're screwed, it's potentially spikey incoming damage, more difficult to manage than AC. Additionally, you're fodder for paralyze and other effects, spells, abilities.. of which there are tons of. The game has been marching on being harsh to kiting strategies, yet the only serious attack to melee that I recall which used to exist "disarm" was pulled (corrode hurts casters too making them even more squishy.)

Health on Kill helps tons, yes because of sublimation of blood, but for other reasons as well. For example cast tornado, or some other damage over time spells then channel with a staff in-between castings. It helps tons even if you have a high AC character because there are so many cheesey ways to receive damage that you can't avoid, like smiting, mummy curses, hellfire, etc. etc. etc.

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VeryAngryFelid

Slime Squisher

Posts: 386

Joined: Thursday, 26th March 2015, 01:22

Post Monday, 15th January 2018, 17:56

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:That would be a hybrid because Ozo Armour kills pure casters which are out of MP

Wtf is a pure caster anyways, and why would you build one? Personally I am hard pressed to imagine a character who would wear armor <5 ER who would not want ozo's armor. ~10 AC buys a lot of time. Likewise, other than maybe the squishiest deep elf, I can't imagine a character who is 'just dead' when they run out of mp. Carry a venom/elec dagger ffs, or use some low-skill evocables!

Snake Sneak

Posts: 116

Joined: Tuesday, 10th September 2013, 14:55

Post Monday, 15th January 2018, 22:01

Re: Pure caster advice

Ok, almost. Almost. Died in Zot:5 :oops: :oops: :oops:

Was fighting with an artifact +5 ring mail. The problem are those damn Orbs of Fire. Never had any problem in the past, ok, they were not "easy", but were manageable.
As a fire elementalist, I had only Freezing Cloud. When I saw that I could not damage them in any way, and that they were faster than my boots of running :oops:, I went back and learned Bolt of Cold. Nothing, I think that Bolt of Cold removes 10% of their life. Bah. How do you kill them? Even 3 Fire Storms were not enough. And they regenerates fast...

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21.0 (tiles) character file.

629444 Taki V the Pyromancer (level 27, -10/184 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fire Elementalist on Jan 14, 2018.
             Was a High Priest of Sif Muna.
             Killed from afar by a quicksilver dragon (23 damage)
             ... with a bolt of dispelling energy
             ... on level 5 of the Realm of Zot on Jan 15, 2018.
             The game lasted 08:43:58 (116578 turns).

Taki V the Pyromancer (GrFE)                      Turns: 116578, Time: 08:43:58

Health: -10/184    AC: 44    Str: 14    XL:     27
Magic:  35/42      EV: 12    Int: 33    God:    Sif Muna [*****.]
Gold:   1306       SH: 13    Dex:  3    Spells: 2/57 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   Y - +6 flail {flame, rElec Int+6 Dex-4 SInv}
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   Q - +1 shield {AC+3}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   s - +5 ring mail "Cucrie" {rC+ rN+ Dex-3}
rPois    ∞         Spirit   .   (helmet restricted)
rElec    +         Reflect  .   h - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   K - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
MR       ++...                  R - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth    +.........             M - amulet of magic regeneration
HPRegen  0.40/turn              z - ring of wizardry
MPRegen  0.53/turn              t - ring "Genyin" {*Drain rF++ rN+ Str+2 SInv}

@: flying, divine energy, quick
A: big wings, horns 1, deterioration 1, negative energy resistance 1,
electricity resistance, weak 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot
immunity, AC +20
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer
a: Stop Flying, Stop Divine Energy, Channel Magic, Forget Spell, Renounce
Religion


You were on level 5 of the Realm of Zot.
You worshipped Sif Muna.
Sif Muna was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and saw 51 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Bailey.

You collected 7852 gold pieces.
You spent 6546 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +9 eveningstar of electrocution
 v - a +6 fustibalus of velocity
 Y - the +6 flail of Radicalism (weapon) {flame, rElec Int+6 Dex-4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (-4).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
Missiles
 e - 2039 stones (quivered)
 p - 564 sling bullets
Armour
 f - a +2 helmet of intelligence
 h - a scarf of resistance (worn)
 s - the +5 ring mail "Cucrie" (worn) {rC+ rN+ Dex-3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 F - a +1 cloak of magic resistance
 K - the +3 pair of gauntlets of War (worn) {Slay+5}
   (You acquired it on level 4 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
 Q - a +1 shield of protection (worn)
 R - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
Magical Staves
 b - an uncursed staff of energy
 o - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Jewellery
 i - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 r - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 t - the ring "Genyin" (right hand) {*Drain rF++ rN+ Str+2 SInv}
   (You took it off an efreet on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of see invisible]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It causes draining when unequipped.
 y - the ring "Citiulun" {rC+ rN+ EV+3 Str+3 Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+3).
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 z - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
 B - an uncursed ring of magical power
 J - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 M - an amulet of magic regeneration (around neck)
 T - the ring "Johyicil" {MP+9 Int+5 Dex+4 Slay+3}
   (You took it off a vault sentinel on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 V - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 Z - an uncursed ring of ice
Wands
 d - a wand of clouds (5)
 W - a wand of digging (38)
Scrolls
 g - 8 scrolls of immolation
 k - 9 scrolls of identify
 q - 9 scrolls of fear
 u - 7 scrolls of teleportation
 x - 7 scrolls of enchant weapon
 A - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 G - 9 scrolls of magic mapping
 I - 4 scrolls of blinking
 N - 7 scrolls of fog
 U - 21 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 j - 23 potions of curing
 l - 8 potions of resistance
 n - 7 potions of might
 w - 5 potions of haste
 C - 4 potions of heal wounds
 D - 8 potions of brilliance
 H - 3 potions of magic
 O - 8 potions of agility
 X - 3 potions of cancellation
Miscellaneous
 E - a lightning rod (4/4)
 P - a crystal ball of energy
Comestibles
 c - 47 rations


   Skills:
 + Level 21,8 Fighting
 - Level 16,0 Maces & Flails
 - Level 13,0 Armour
 - Level 13,2 Dodging
 - Level 2,1 Stealth
 - Level 16,2 Shields
 - Level 15,7 Spellcasting
 - Level 21,0 Conjurations
 - Level 5,0 Charms
 * Level 22,2 Fire Magic
 - Level 8,1 Ice Magic
 - Level 6,7 Air Magic


You had 2 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Bolt of Cold          Conj/Ice       #######...   1%          6    ##.....
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       0%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ########     0%          3    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ########..   0%          5    None
f - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ######..     1%          3    None
g - Force Lance           Conj/Tloc      #######.     1%          4    None
h - Venom Bolt            Conj/Pois      #######...   1%          5    None
i - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   #######...   1%          6    ##.....
j - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    None
k - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      ########..   11%         9    #######
m - Ring of Flames        Chrm/Fire      #######...   3%          7    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:8
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:2       Spider (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (5/5) D:15           Hell (1/1)
    Zot (5/5) Depths:5   
   Dis: Hell:1         Geh: Hell:1         Coc: Hell:1         Tar: Hell:1

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:7 [[(%   D:9 *   D:14 =   Orc:2 *?%[%   Elf:2 *   Elf:3 %   Shoals:2 [   Vaults:3 !   Vaults:4 *   Vaults:5 *[   Depths:1 !

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:1

Annotations:
D:4 Taki IV's ghost, amateur GrFE
Hell Geryon


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
Your stone body is resilient. (AC +20)
You are immune to poison.
Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely.
You resist negative energy. (rN+)
You are resistant to electric shocks. (rElec)
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
You have a pair of small horns on your head.
Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage.
You are weak. (Str -2)


Message History

The quicksilver dragon bites you but does no damage.
The quicksilver dragon claws you but does no damage.
The electric golem hurls lightning at you.
The bolt of lightning hits you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The electric golem blinks!
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You can't go up here!
You block the quicksilver dragon's attack.
The quicksilver dragon misses you. The quicksilver dragon bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The quicksilver dragon claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You fly downwards.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You sock the quicksilver dragon! You burn the quicksilver dragon.
The quicksilver dragon is severely wounded.
The quicksilver dragon breathes dispelling energy at you.
The bolt of dispelling energy hits you!
You die...

...........#  *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
L.........##  *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
..........#   *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
..........##  *,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
...........#  **,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
...........##  **,,,,,,,,,,,,,
............#   **,,,,,,,,,,,,
####.########▓▓▓▓#####********
.....##.........##...#
.....##...###.D.##...#
.............:.@.....#
.......############..#
.......#          #..#
......##          #..#
#########         #..#
  ##..⌠.#         #..#
  #)....#         #..#
  #.....######    #..#
# #...#......# ####..#
####..#......###.....#


You could see a quicksilver dragon.

Vanquished Creatures
  7 ancient liches
  A juggernaut (Depths:2)
  Sojobo (Depths:2)
  2 curse toes
  A Killer Klown (Zot:4)
  12 golden dragons
  Nikola (Elf:3)
  A bone dragon (Depths:5)
  2 electric golems (Zot:5)
  12 tentacled monstrosities
  7 Orb Guardians (Zot:5)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  2 deep elf blademasters (Elf:3)
  6 liches
  4 quicksilver dragons
  3 titans
  Frances (Shoals:1)
  5 death cobs
  15 shadow dragons
  A sphinx (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  8 sphinxes
  3 draconian monks
  11 storm dragons
  Ilsuiw (Shoals:4)
  4 tengu reavers
  2 daevas (D:15)
  Roxanne (Elf:2)
  3 draconian knights
  A fire giant (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  3 draconian scorchers
  11 vault wardens
  18 frost giants
  2 iron dragons (Vaults:5)
  A frost giant (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  7 deep elf sorcerers
  12 fire giants
  Aizul (Vaults:4)
  5 draconian shifters
  10 draconian stormcallers
  6 ghost moths
  An orc warlord (Vaults:2)
  6 emperor scorpions
  3 deep elf elementalists
  2 spriggan defenders (Depths:2)
  4 draconian annihilators
  7 entropy weavers
  9 ironheart preservers
  22 stone giants
  3 war gargoyles
  3 reapers (Depths:5)
  24 very ugly things
  6 green draconians
  6 deep elf demonologists (Elf:3)
  7 deep elf annihilators
  3 vampire knights
  9 black draconians
  A lorocyproca (Depths:2)
  2 yellow draconians
  7 white draconians
  6 spark wasps
  8 purple draconians
  3 red draconians
  7 merfolk javelineers
  12 deep elf death magi
  19 ettins
  A blizzard demon (Depths:3)
  23 yaktaur captains
  12 fire dragons
  6 merfolk impalers
  6 deep elf high priests
  4 hydras
  5 great orbs of eyes
  16 ice dragons
  3 rakshasas
  2 catoblepae (Lair:2)
  5 spriggan air magi
  5 merfolk aquamancers
  2 alligator snapping turtles
  26 vault guards
  5 merfolk avatars
  36 dancing weapons
  16 deep troll shamans
  82 two-headed ogres
  17 centaur warriors
  A death knight (D:15)
  2 hell hogs (Depths:5)
  14 deep troll earth magi
  5 satyrs
  2 orc high priests
  5 tengu warriors
  A vampire mage (Depths:2)
  4 spriggan berserkers
  24 ogre magi
  A shock serpent (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  23 deep elf knights
  6 hell knights
  3 sun demons
  A soul eater (Depths:5)
  A shadow wraith (Vaults:3)
  A spark wasp zombie (Depths:1)
  A storm dragon skeleton (Vaults:3)
  6 skeletal warriors
  17 sea snakes
  2 glowing orange brains
  2 sea snakes (shapeshifter)
  10 iron trolls
  37 deep trolls
  4 flayed ghosts
  A kraken simulacrum (Shoals:4)
  3 unseen horrors
  6 phantasmal warriors
  7 wizards
  A swamp dragon (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  A shadow dragon zombie (Vaults:4)
  A shadow demon (Depths:1)
  18 deep elf archers
  2 orb spiders (shapeshifter)
  12 orb spiders
  28 harpies
  10 necromancers
  20 fauns
  A wolf spider zombie (D:15)
  56 ugly things
  2 frost giant zombies
  67 deep elf magi
  19 cyclopes
  20 orc knights
  A wolf spider (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  35 wolf spiders
  15 ironbrand convokers
  2 salamanders (Depths:4)
  8 manticores
  5 orc sorcerers
  11 merfolk sirens
  Maurice (D:10)
  3 oklob plants
  9 elephants
  A frost giant skeleton (Vaults:2)
  A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  28 moths of wrath
  2 ice statues (Depths:3)
  2 human skeletons (Vaults:3)
  A stone giant skeleton (Vaults:2)
  4 black mambas
  2 water nymphs
  3 torpor snails
  18 vault sentinels
  Joseph (D:8)
  3 gargoyles
  A molten gargoyle (Depths:4)
  A kobold demonologist (Depths:2)
  3 centaur skeletons (D:14)
  8 komodo dragons
  20 spiny frogs
  4 human zombies
  2 efreet (D:15)
  13 demonic crawlers
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  14 rime drakes
  56 yaktaurs
  A yaktaur skeleton (Vaults:4)
  3 tengu conjurers
  5 freezing wraiths
  A redback zombie (D:15)
  3 meliai (D:12)
  A polar bear (Lair:3)
  A troll (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  3 ice devils (Depths:3)
  23 jumping spiders
  A golden dragon simulacrum (Depths:1)
  A queen bee (D:9)
  14 merfolk
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  15 trolls
  4 tyrant leeches (Lair:6)
  31 slime creatures
  4 wind drakes
  7 hornets
  A raiju (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  2 blink frogs (shapeshifter)
  42 blink frogs
  13 hippogriffs
  6 snapping turtles
  24 dream sheep
  A spriggan zombie (Depths:1)
  A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  85 redbacks
  3 shadows
  24 tarantellas
  14 air elementals
  An ettin skeleton (Depths:1)
  2 small abominations
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  17 water elementals
  2 wraiths
  4 wyverns
  42 yaks
  5 fire elementals
  A human (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  2 human simulacra
  5 hungry ghosts
  16 vampire mosquitoes
  4 basilisks
  3 fire bats (Abyss:5)
  A chaos spawn (Abyss:5)
  8 steam dragons (Lair:6)
  2 yaktaur simulacra (Vaults:2)
  A swamp worm (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  A naga (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  11 wargs
  A soldier ant (D:13)
  5 acid dragons
  A deep troll zombie (Vaults:3)
  12 water moccasins
  A porcupine (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  10 porcupines
  2 elf zombies
  4 phantoms
  A swamp drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  6 ice beasts
  2 black bears
  An ice beast (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  2 sky beasts
  An ice dragon simulacrum (Depths:1)
  2 necrophages
  43 orc warriors
  An ogre (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  6 boggarts
  14 wolves
  65 ogres
  17 centaurs
  10 crocodiles
  5 big kobolds
  25 bullfrogs
  Blork the orc (D:6)
  2 wyvern zombies
  2 gnoll sergeants (D:5)
  5 scorpions
  23 killer bees
  2 orc simulacra (Vaults:1)
  2 howler monkeys
  9 electric eels
  4 wights (D:8)
  12 crimson imps
  2 jellies
  3 bullfrog zombies
  A quasit (D:13)
  4 centaur zombies
  2 hounds
  A gnoll shaman (D:4)
  20 orc priests
  33 orc wizards
  A bullfrog skeleton (D:13)
  An iguana (D:4)
  10 worker ants
  7 hell rats
  A worker ant zombie (D:7)
  16 gnolls
  10 adders
  A gnoll (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  3 shadow imps
  A white imp (Depths:5)
  An ooze (D:1)
  2 adder skeletons
  2 worms
  2 dart slugs
  6 leopard geckos
  132 orcs
  7 giant cockroaches
  5 goblins
  9 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  7 quokkas
  3 bats
  2 frilled lizards
  A jackal skeleton (D:5)
  16 kobolds
  A leopard gecko zombie (D:7)
  A quokka skeleton (D:10)
  A quokka zombie (D:8)
  5 rats
  A crawling corpse (Elf:3)
  3 plants
2479 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An ettin (Vaults:5)
  A vault guard (Vaults:5)
  A wolf spider (Spider:1)
  A crawling corpse (Elf:3)
4 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A draconian knight (Depths:5)
  A stone giant (Depths:5)
  A deep troll earth mage (Depths:1)
  A deep elf knight (Elf:1)
  A shadow wraith (Vaults:4)
  A deep elf archer (Elf:3)
  A deep elf mage (Vaults:1)
  5 moths of wrath (Zot:5)
  A jumping spider (Spider:1)
  A wyvern (Lair:3)
  An orc warrior (Vaults:2)
  A bullfrog (Lair:6)
  2 orcs
  38 fire vortices
  18 fungi
  86 plants
  4 tentacles (Shoals:4)
164 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2647 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Taki V the Gargoyle Fire Elementalist began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 3/3
   311 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 0/5
   544 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
  1383 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 2/6
  1451 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  1530 | D:2      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  1838 | D:2      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  1886 | D:2      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  1889 | D:2      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  1891 | D:2      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  1896 | D:2      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  1897 | D:2      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  2145 | D:3      | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
  2174 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/7
  2439 | D:3      | Found a faded altar of an unknown god.
  3281 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 28/28 MP: 6/9
  3482 | D:4      | Noticed an ice beast
  3542 | D:3      | Killed an ice beast
  3542 | D:3      | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic
  3542 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 21/32 MP: 1/11
  3732 | D:4      | Noticed Taki IV's ghost (amateur GrFE)
  3848 | D:4      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  4689 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4689 | D:5      | Noticed an ice beast
  4713 | D:5      | Killed an ice beast
  4801 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 4/13
  4948 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic
  5038 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations
  5632 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 23/41 MP: 1/15
  5774 | D:5      | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  5780 | D:5      | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball
  5975 | D:5      | Got a fine cloak
  5981 | D:5      | Identified the +0 cloak of Greater Demons {*Corrode rC++ rN+ MR+} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  6086 | D:5      | Got a blackened flail
  6087 | D:5      | Identified the +6 flail of Radicalism {flame, rElec Int+6 Dex-4 SInv} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  6424 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6436 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6661 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder
  6903 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6919 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Fire Magic
  7604 | D:5      | Reached * piety under Sif Muna
  8287 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  8297 | D:6      | Killed Blork the orc
  8694 | D:7      | Reached skill level 7 in Fire Magic
  8694 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 30/45 MP: 0/18
  8826 | D:7      | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
  8902 | D:7      | Found Afrodyel's Armour Shop.
  9045 | D:7      | Found Vitem's Armour Shop.
  9104 | D:7      | Found Tijuric's Food Boutique.
  9135 | D:7      | Found Jeali's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  9342 | D:7      | Reached ** piety under Sif Muna
  9713 | D:8      | Found a flagged portal.
  9730 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
  9818 | Bailey   | Noticed an orc knight
  9934 | Bailey   | Noticed an orc knight
  9958 | Bailey   | Noticed an orc knight
 10069 | Bailey   | Killed an orc knight
 10316 | Bailey   | Reached skill level 8 in Fire Magic
 10549 | Bailey   | Killed an orc knight
 10549 | Bailey   | Reached *** piety under Sif Muna
 10718 | Bailey   | Killed an orc knight
 10718 | Bailey   | Reached XP level 10. HP: 50/50 MP: 11/21
 11223 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
 11228 | D:8      | Killed Joseph
 11228 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Fire Magic
 11631 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11798 | D:8      | Reached **** piety under Sif Muna
 12333 | D:9      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 12474 | D:7      | Bought an ebony morningstar for 216 gold pieces
 12474 | D:7      | Identified the cursed +0 morningstar of Jiadounaubb {elec, rElec Str+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 12786 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 12786 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
 12786 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 13057 | D:9      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 13108 | D:9      | Noticed a two-headed ogre
 13118 | D:9      | Killed a two-headed ogre
 13118 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 60/60 MP: 14/23
 13223 | D:9      | Found Ausasic's Alliterative Accessories.
 13368 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 13595 | D:10     | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 14789 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15525 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 16055 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 16265 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
 16368 | Lair:1   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 16510 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 16516 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc sorcerer
 16521 | Orc:1    | Noticed a sun demon
 16522 | Orc:1    | Killed an orc sorcerer
 16531 | Orc:1    | Noticed Maurice
 16593 | Orc:1    | Noticed an orc knight
 16951 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 17121 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 71/71 MP: 19/24
 17206 | Lair:1   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 17225 | Lair:1   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 17291 | Lair:1   | Noticed an ice dragon
 17309 | Lair:1   | Killed an ice dragon
 18139 | D:7      | Bought a slimy fustibalus for 480 gold pieces
 18139 | D:7      | Identified the cursed +0 fustibalus "Dofin" {freeze, rC+} (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 18377 | Lair:2   | Noticed a catoblepas
 18387 | Lair:2   | Killed a catoblepas
 18583 | Lair:2   | Noticed a catoblepas
 18608 | Lair:2   | Killed a catoblepas
 19399 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 19511 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 20824 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 69/80 MP: 25/25
 20898 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud
 21043 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations
 22167 | Lair:5   | Reached ***** piety under Sif Muna
 22266 | Lair:5   | Identified Sif Muna's Compendium of Lethal Moulding (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 22266 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 22285 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 23499 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 24781 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 24796 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
 24854 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: Your large and strong wings let you fly indefinitely. [Gargoyle growth]
 24854 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 88/88 MP: 1/28
 26339 | Lair:6   | Identified the +1 ring mail of Boarphomn {rF- Str+6} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 26376 | Lair:6   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 26376 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 26705 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 4 spell: Force Lance
 26874 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 30754 | D:10     | Killed Maurice
 31425 | D:7      | Bought a +1 shield of protection for 247 gold pieces
 31708 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 31708 | Orc:2    | Found Ichulel's Assorted Antiques.
 32082 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 32196 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 96/96 MP: 23/30
 32329 | Orc:2    | Identified Sif Muna's Volume of Mutagenic Poisoning (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)
 32329 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 33601 | Orc:2    | Found Hotopry's Magic Scroll Shop.
 33602 | Orc:2    | Found Gifebbul's Food Boutique.
 33816 | Orc:2    | Found Exatusch's Antique Armour Shoppe.
 33825 | Orc:2    | Found Sivymufuj's Food Shop.
 34282 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 5 spell: Venom Bolt
 36090 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 36306 | D:13     | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 37908 | D:14     | Found Anaycs's Jewellery Shoppe.
 38423 | D:14     | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 38819 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 38917 | D:15     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 84/104 MP: 32/32
 39190 | D:15     | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 39190 | D:15     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 39191 | D:15     | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 41529 | D:15     | Got a wavering iron ring
 42009 | D:15     | Noticed a sphinx
 42026 | D:15     | Killed a sphinx
 42459 | D:15     | Got an ancient scale mail
 42483 | D:15     | Identified the +0 scale mail of Liberty {+Fly rC+ MR+} (You took it off a tengu warrior on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 42914 | D:15     | Identified the ring "Genyin" {*Drain rF++ rN+ Str+2 SInv} (You took it off an efreet on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 43181 | D:15     | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 43244 | D:15     | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud
 43339 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 43699 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 5 spell: Bolt of Magma
 43740 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 44072 | D:7      | Bought a runed eveningstar for 432 gold pieces
 44217 | Spider:1 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 112/112 MP: 33/35
 44217 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
 44260 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
 45492 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations
 46830 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 47686 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic
 48914 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
 49735 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 50086 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
 50791 | Spider:4 | Identified Sif Muna's Compendium of Mutagenic Poison (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 4 of the Spider Nest)
 50791 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 50850 | Spider:4 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 89/119 MP: 2/37
 52097 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
 52817 | Spider:4 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 53198 | D:7      | Bought the +5 ring mail "Cucrie" {rC+ rN+ Dex-3} for 572 gold pieces
 53286 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 54433 | Shoals:1 | Noticed Frances
 54447 | Shoals:1 | Killed Frances
 54447 | Shoals:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic
 54772 | Shoals:1 | Identified Sif Muna's Grimoire of Enchantment (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 1 of the Shoals)
 54772 | Shoals:1 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 55083 | Lair:1   | You are sucked into a shaft!
 55884 | Shoals:2 | Reached ****** piety under Sif Muna
 56376 | Shoals:2 | Found Vyna's Antique Armour Emporium.
 56988 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Maces & Flails
 57845 | Shoals:3 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 124/124 MP: 38/38
 58276 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 58868 | Shoals:4 | Got a twisted morningstar
 58869 | Shoals:4 | Identified the +6 morningstar "Voitribb" {protect, rN+ Str+5 Dex-2} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 59442 | Shoals:4 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 59454 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 59594 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Ilsuiw
 60029 | Shoals:4 | Killed Ilsuiw
 60291 | Shoals:4 | Identified the +2 hand axe of Spores {chop, Dex+4} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 60325 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Fire Magic
 61612 | D:9      | Bought a book of Annihilations for 1545 gold pieces
 61622 | D:9      | Learned a level 9 spell: Fire Storm
 61743 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 63648 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 131/131 MP: 39/39
 64099 | Vaults:1 | Identified Sif Muna's Guide on Arcane Weapons (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 1 of the Vaults)
 64099 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 65292 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 12 in Fire Magic
 66396 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 66396 | Vaults:2 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 66397 | Vaults:2 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 66484 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 66582 | Vaults:2 | Found the +10 large shield of Ignorance {rN+ Int-4}
 67757 | D:14     | Bought an uncursed ring of wizardry for 480 gold pieces
 68100 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 135/138 MP: 40/40
 68285 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 68742 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 13 in Fire Magic
 69022 | Vaults:3 | Got a pitted leather armour
 69028 | Vaults:3 | Identified the +3 leather armour "Saich" {-Cast Int+6 Dex+3} (You found it on level 3 of the Vaults)
 69058 | Vaults:3 | Found Vonocs's Distillery.
 69064 | Vaults:3 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 65 gold pieces
 69064 | Vaults:3 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 65 gold pieces
 69747 | Vaults:3 | Identified Sif Muna's Collected Works on Unholy Stones (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Vaults)
 69747 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 70853 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Aizul
 70860 | Vaults:4 | Killed Aizul
 71706 | Vaults:4 | Found the +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}
 71719 | Vaults:4 | Found Unlavi's General Store.
 72458 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 49/146 MP: 41/41
 72994 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 14 in Fire Magic
 73335 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 73338 | Depths:1 | Identified Sif Muna's Catalogue of Evil Secrets and Fire (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 1 of the Depths)
 73338 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 75349 | Shoals:2 | Bought a runed scarf for 288 gold pieces
 76129 | D:15     | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 76608 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 76616 | Depths:1 | Paralysed by a vampire knight for 6 turns
 77877 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 78659 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 78671 | Depths:1 | Found Xexzepp's Distillery.
 78679 | Depths:1 | Bought 2 potions of heal wounds for 160 gold pieces
 78679 | Depths:1 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 80 gold pieces
 78679 | Depths:1 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 80 gold pieces
 78679 | Depths:1 | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 80 gold pieces
 78793 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 79123 | Depths:1 | Noticed a caustic shrike
 79144 | Depths:1 | Paralysed by a great orb of eyes for 5 turns
 81569 | Depths:2 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 97/152 MP: 21/42
 82040 | Depths:2 | Noticed a golden dragon
 82389 | Depths:2 | Identified Sif Muna's Compendium of Hurtful Contamination (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Depths)
 82389 | Depths:2 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 82736 | Depths:2 | Paralysed by a sphinx for 7 turns
 82924 | Depths:2 | Noticed a juggernaut
 82953 | Depths:2 | Killed a golden dragon
 83440 | Depths:2 | Noticed Sojobo
 83474 | Depths:2 | Killed Sojobo
 83818 | Depths:2 | Killed a juggernaut
 84328 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fire Magic
 84334 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 84645 | Depths:3 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 86463 | Depths:3 | Noticed an ancient lich
 86492 | Depths:3 | Cast into level 5 of the Abyss (an ancient lich)
 86492 | Abyss:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Abyss
 86552 | Depths:3 | Escaped the Abyss
 86565 | Depths:3 | Killed an ancient lich
 86581 | Depths:3 | Reached XP level 24. HP: 106/159 MP: 42/42
 86591 | Depths:3 | Identified Sif Muna's Reference Book on Hurtful Lightness (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Depths)
 86591 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 87125 | Depths:3 | Got a shimmering brass ring
 87127 | Depths:3 | Identified the ring "Citiulun" {rC+ rN+ EV+3 Str+3 Dex+3} (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)
 88907 | Depths:4 | Paralysed by a sphinx for 6 turns
 88977 | Depths:4 | Identified the amulet of Temptation {Harm *Drain rN+ Str-4 Int+4 Stlth+} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 88982 | Depths:4 | Got a crude bronze ring
 88984 | Depths:4 | Identified the ring of the Solstice {rElec MR+ Str+3 SInv} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 89789 | Depths:4 | Identified Otafie's Volume of the Excruciating Mountains (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 4 of the Depths)
 89789 | Depths:4 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 89789 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 16 in Fire Magic
 90042 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths
 91785 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 91840 | Depths:5 | Reached XP level 25. HP: 130/164 MP: 42/42
 91842 | Depths:5 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 91842 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 17 in Fire Magic
 91843 | Depths:5 | Identified Noarayga's Almanac of Conjuration (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 5 of the Depths)
 93459 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 93615 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
 94104 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 94584 | Elf:2    | Noticed Roxanne
 94611 | Elf:2    | Killed Roxanne
 94612 | Elf:2    | Identified Roxanne's Grimoire of Moulding (You took it off Roxanne on level 2 of the Elven Halls)
 94854 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 94854 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 94864 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 94934 | Elf:2    | Found Woefam's General Store.
 96093 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 96476 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 96488 | Elf:3    | Noticed Nikola
 96520 | Elf:3    | Killed Nikola
 96982 | Elf:3    | Identified Sif Muna's Collected Works on Supportive Arcane Weapons (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 96982 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 97382 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 26. HP: 172/172 MP: 42/42
 97493 | Elf:3    | Identified the Grimoire of Floating Moulding
 97504 | Elf:3    | Identified the Collected Works on the Boosting Mountains
 97529 | Elf:3    | Identified the Catalogue of Cankerous Augmentations
 97813 | Elf:3    | Found Gaofreis's Food Shop.
 98312 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
 98793 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
 99049 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
 99059 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich
 99469 | Vaults:5 | Identified the ring "Johyicil" {MP+9 Int+5 Dex+4 Slay+3} (You took it off a vault sentinel on level 5 of the Vaults)
 99601 | Vaults:5 | Found Raiqu's Assorted Antiques.
 99608 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 18 in Fire Magic
100010 | Vaults:5 | Identified Sif Muna's Grimoire of Excruciating Execration (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 5 of the Vaults)
100010 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Sif Muna
100541 | Vaults:5 | Got a smoking robe
100552 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +1 robe "Liuxoq Geid" {MR+ Int-4 Stlth+} (You took it off a yaktaur captain on level 5 of the Vaults)
100941 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich
101515 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 27. HP: 29/178 MP: 34/42
102736 | Vaults:5 | Identified the Compendium of the Fisher
102752 | Vaults:5 | Identified the Reference Book on Envenoming and Protection
102761 | Vaults:5 | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
102769 | Vaults:5 | Learned a level 7 spell: Ring of Flames
102936 | Vaults:5 | Found Kisaacarch's Armour Shop.
103116 | Vaults:5 | Bought a +0 pair of boots of running for 756 gold pieces
103337 | Vaults:5 | Got a silver rune of Zot
103430 | Vaults:5 | Bought an ichor-stained fustibalus for 880 gold pieces
103432 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +6 fustibalus "Darel" {venom, rF+ Str+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Vaults)
103917 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of blinking for 120 gold pieces
104332 | Zot:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot
104487 | Zot:1    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
104487 | Zot:1    | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
104756 | Zot:1    | Reached skill level 19 in Fire Magic
106647 | Zot:2    | Found an ornate altar of the Wu Jian Council.
107781 | Zot:3    | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
107794 | Zot:3    | Reached skill level 20 in Fire Magic
108337 | Zot:3    | Identified Sif Muna's Papyrus of Creative Beguiling (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Realm of Zot)
108337 | Zot:3    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
110008 | Zot:4    | Reached skill level 21 in Fire Magic
111278 | Hell     | Entered the Vestibule of Hell
111651 | Hell     | Noticed Geryon
112124 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
112404 | Zot:5    | Received a gift from Sif Muna
112497 | Zot:5    | Learned a level 8 spell: Ignition
112594 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
112906 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
112943 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
112958 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [an orb of fire]
112961 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [an orb of fire]
112976 | Zot:4    | Gained mutation: You are frail. (-10% HP) [an orb of fire]
112994 | Zot:4    | Lost mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [an orb of fire]
113809 | D:5      | Lost mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [potion of mutation]
113809 | D:5      | Lost mutation: You are frail. (-10% HP) [potion of mutation]
113809 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You are dopey. (Int -2) [potion of mutation]
113809 | D:5      | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP) [potion of mutation]
113809 | D:5      | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation]
113809 | D:5      | Lost mutation: You are dopey. (Int -2) [potion of mutation]
114131 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Cold
114638 | Zot:4    | Gained mutation: Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful. [an orb of fire]
114645 | Zot:4    | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [an orb of fire]
115264 | Lair:4   | Lost mutation: Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful. [potion of mutation]
115264 | Lair:4   | Lost mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of mutation]
115264 | Lair:4   | Lost mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [potion of mutation]
115264 | Lair:4   | Lost mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP) [potion of mutation]
115264 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of mutation]
115264 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You are agile. (Dex +2) [potion of mutation]
116270 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
116313 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
116363 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
116370 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
116370 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 22 in Fire Magic
116406 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
116412 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
116535 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
116538 | Zot:5    | Lost mutation: You are agile. (Dex +2) [an orb of fire]
116547 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [an orb of fire]
116548 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage. [an orb of fire]
116578 | Zot:5    | Killed from afar by a quicksilver dragon

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Conjurations   |     2  3     4     5  7  9          11 12 13 14 15    16 17 18       20       21 | 21,0
Spellcasting   |           3     4     6  7  8       10 11 12 14 15                               | 15,7
Fire Magic     |              4     5  7  8  9                   10    11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 22 | 22,2
Fighting       |                             3  6  9 10 12 13 14 15       16 17 18       19    21 | 21,8
Maces & Flails |                             2  6  8 10 11 12 13 14 15    16                      | 16,0
Shields        |                             3  4                               12 15       16    | 16,2
Dodging        |                             3  5  7                    8  9 11       12    13    | 13,2
Ice Magic      |                                                  4  7  8                         |  8,1
Air Magic      |                                                  3  6                            |  6,7
Armour         |                                                                         13       | 13,0
Charms         |                                                                                5 |  5,0
Stealth        |                                                                                  |  2,1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    15 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    15
       Whip              |    21 |       |       |    10 |       |       |       |       |       ||    31
       Short sword       |     7 |    31 |    35 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    73
       Flail             |       |       |    78 |   157 |   711 |   205 |       |    23 |    29 ||  1203
       Trident           |       |       |     4 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     4
       Morningstar       |       |       |       |    18 |       |       |       |       |       ||    18
       Eveningstar       |       |       |       |       |       |   582 |  1016 |  1231 |  1880 ||  4709
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |    21 |     2 ||    26
       Headbutt          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    10 ||    10
 Fire: Fustibalus        |       |       |       |       |    11 |       |       |       |       ||    11
 Cast: Flame Tongue      |    42 |    70 |    71 |   206 |   105 |    60 |    33 |     6 |     3 ||   596
       Throw Flame       |     3 |    17 |   112 |   432 |   931 |   833 |   499 |   346 |   108 ||  3281
       Conjure Flame     |       |     2 |    14 |    30 |    29 |    41 |    16 |     9 |     3 ||   144
       Fireball          |       |       |    19 |    16 |    49 |    73 |    55 |    66 |    82 ||   360
       Sticky Flame      |       |       |     1 |     3 |    10 |     1 |       |       |       ||    15
       Mephitic Cloud    |       |       |       |       |    27 |    14 |    15 |    12 |     5 ||    73
       Force Lance       |       |       |       |       |    36 |    61 |    29 |    23 |    19 ||   168
       Venom Bolt        |       |       |       |       |     4 |    18 |     8 |     6 |     5 ||    41
       Bolt of Magma     |       |       |       |       |       |    35 |    56 |    29 |    36 ||   156
       Freezing Cloud    |       |       |       |       |       |       |    39 |    51 |    16 ||   106
       Fire Storm        |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    34 ||    34
       Bolt of Cold      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Ignition          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Ring of Flames    |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Invok: Divine Energy     |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Forget Spell      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |     2 |       |    10 ||    14
  Use: Scroll            |       |     6 |    10 |    13 |     9 |    18 |    10 |     9 |    13 ||    88
       Potion            |       |       |     1 |       |     1 |     3 |     4 |     3 |     7 ||    19
 Stab: Sleeping          |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |     5 |     2 |     1 |     7 |     1 ||    16
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Eat: Chunk             |     5 |     8 |    17 |    24 |    51 |    36 |    45 |    35 |    44 ||   265
       Ration            |       |       |     2 |     3 |     4 |     7 |     2 |     9 |    18 ||    45
Armor: Robe              |    15 |    16 |    64 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    95
       Skin              |       |       |       |    76 |       |       |       |       |       ||    76
       Ring mail         |       |       |       |    84 |   521 |   841 |   529 |   706 |  1062 ||  3743
Dodge: Dodged            |    42 |    40 |   128 |   216 |   518 |   703 |   488 |   544 |   781 ||  3460
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |    94 |   249 |   355 |   221 |   100 |       ||  1019
       Shield            |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   476 |  1077 ||  1553
Won: SpHu Slinger of Okawaru (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed of Makhleb (3 runes) - DsGl Unarmed (with Statue and Shatter) of Chei (15 runes!!!)
Demonspawn rocks.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1053

Joined: Friday, 16th January 2015, 20:20

Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 01:50

Re: Pure caster advice

Orb of Destruction or Iron Shot or summons.

I prefer OoD *and* Iron Shot: OoD at long range, Iron Shot up close.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 603

Joined: Thursday, 23rd October 2014, 03:08

Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 02:43

Re: Pure caster advice

you were following sif muna, so the answer is channel, and then hit them with more fire storms
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 542

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 06:27

Re: Pure caster advice

You should have brought your Spellcasting up to about 20, which would have given you more MP and more oomph to your spellpower. And yes, Airwolf is right - earth damage or strong pure conjurations are good against OOFs.

Looks like your were not anywhere near out of MP when you died, though.
Maɟaŋ

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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 08:31

Re: Pure caster advice

amaril wrote:Wtf is a pure caster anyways, and why would you build one? Personally I am hard pressed to imagine a character who would wear armor <5 ER who would not want ozo's armor. ~10 AC buys a lot of time. Likewise, other than maybe the squishiest deep elf, I can't imagine a character who is 'just dead' when they run out of mp. Carry a venom/elec dagger ffs, or use some low-skill evocables!


For me a pure caster is a character who cannot continue killing dangerous monsters when out of MP.
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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 08:36

Re: Pure caster advice

Another option was might, haste and that +9 eveningstar at min delay. The character was a hybrid actually.
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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 09:43

Re: Pure caster advice

Majang wrote:You should have brought your Spellcasting up to about 20, which would have given you more MP and more oomph to your spellpower. And yes, Airwolf is right - earth damage or strong pure conjurations are good against OOFs.

Looks like your were not anywhere near out of MP when you died, though.
I thought Spellcasting only affected spell failure, not spellpower ?
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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 10:04

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:How do you kill them? Even 3 Fire Storms were not enough.
  Code:
 I - 4 scrolls of blinking
...
 w - 5 potions of haste
 D - 8 potions of brilliance
 H - 3 potions of magic
 O - 8 potions of agility


Use your consumables. Quaff brilliance and/or haste and use Fire Storm. Potion of magic is useful if you run out mid-fight (or use Channel). Iron shot and Orb of Destruction also work fine.
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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 10:41

Re: Pure caster advice

Fingolfin wrote:I thought Spellcasting only affected spell failure, not spellpower ?

Spellpower, too, in the same way as spell success (1/4 contribution to 1-spellschool spell). Since OP was training five spell schools, spellcasting would have been a useful investment just for that. But it also helps with MP pool, spell slots and spell hunger.
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Post Tuesday, 16th January 2018, 21:55

Re: Pure caster advice

As good as conjure flame is, if you're going to be a gargoyle I'd take EE as a background. LRD is pretty fun, and sandblast/stone arrow will handle all your early game threats. It's also irresistible, which I like a lot. It may not matter in 90% of fights but the 10% of fights were something dangerous resists your element are the ones most likely to kill you.

If you find the new zombie hands spell, go for it once you afford some necromancy training. Smite targeting AOE is something earth otherwise lacks.

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Post Wednesday, 17th January 2018, 01:12

Re: Pure caster advice

tasonir wrote:Smite targeting AOE is something earth otherwise lacks.

Although LRD is *almost* smite targeted AOE....
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Post Friday, 19th January 2018, 14:02

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:Another option was might, haste and that +9 eveningstar at min delay. The character was a hybrid actually.


Sorry, in Crawl world I suppose that even a caster (maybe the word "pure" is misleading here) should train any good lowskill weapon to mindelay (morning/eveningstar, demon whip, demon trident, lajatang... any weapon in the 14 skill range would work).
I don't mean "pure caster" as "do not use anything else than magic" but just as "my primary method of killing things, from D:1 to Z:5, is magic".
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Post Friday, 19th January 2018, 14:09

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:I don't mean "pure caster" as "do not use anything else than magic" but just as "my primary method of killing things, from D:1 to Z:5, is magic".


I am trying to say that the character didn't have magic as primary method of killing things, it might use melee as easily, it was a hybrid.
AC 44/EV 12/SH 13 and +9 eveningstar at min delay is more than enough to win as any character without spells. I mean you thought of your character as "pure caster" and it prevented you from using melee vs orb of fire while melee was arguably the best option.
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Post Monday, 22nd January 2018, 05:37

Re: Pure caster advice

In my experiences so far:

Pure casters don't need much of armour, which only nets you 1d(armour) of physical reduction. It's nice to have for mitigating the low damage attacks. Of course, more is always better.

It's perfectly fine to be noisy and sloppy as a spellcaster. If you want to avoid stair dancing, simply use quiter spells when you are near steps and you will have better odds of not needing to stair dance. But, lately i've seen more monsters near stairs in games, so you might want to head back up and go down different steps. Also, luring is not required. It's more of a style of play.

I find having 30-35 mp for starter books to be sufficient in most cases. That's enough damage to clear typical packs. It means you typically want to make sure you rest to full before continuing.

6pips of spellpower is good enough to clear dungeon/lair/branches. And 8pips of power is good enough for Vault and beyond.
6pips of spellpower is easy enough to get. You should train spellcasting. And your primary spellschool. You can get away with just training primary school in dual schools for most starter book spells.

For the lair example, I would typically fireball the pack of elephants and save enough sticky flames for each one. If i'm boxed in a corner and can't be moved by charging elephants I would also use conjure flame. For 30-35mp this takes care of the packs more often then not. Difficult at 6pips of spellpower and not difficult at 7/8 pips of spellpower.

For the EE example, I would spend most of the time training spellcasting and earth magic. Save sand blast and rocks for anything tough early game, as it works wonders. Petrify is great against packs, especially in corridors. LRD is great. You just hug walls and monsters will always be close to walls.

For the AE, static disharge is like a powerful melee weapon. great against packs or low hp creatures. Lightning bolt against high HP or any time you can score a bounce or when you can hit multipe enemies. It's more squishy in my view, which is why you get escape spells.

P.S. Battle Sphere still exists in one of the unique books. Food for thought.

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Post Monday, 22nd January 2018, 09:12

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:
d3k0 wrote:I don't mean "pure caster" as "do not use anything else than magic" but just as "my primary method of killing things, from D:1 to Z:5, is magic".


I am trying to say that the character didn't have magic as primary method of killing things, it might use melee as easily, it was a hybrid.
AC 44/EV 12/SH 13 and +9 eveningstar at min delay is more than enough to win as any character without spells. I mean you thought of your character as "pure caster" and it prevented you from using melee vs orb of fire while melee was arguably the best option.


I like to call it the "Hit with Weapon" spell. "Hit with Weapon" is a dual school spell that, like old "Sticks to Snakes", requires wielding an object in your hands and whose result depends on the quality of that object. Unlike "Sticks to Snakes" said object is not consumed, though. "Hit with Weapon"'s effectiveness sucks compared with other damaging spells and its range is extremely low. It's one big advantage, though, is that casting it costs 0 MP, making it one of the most MP-efficient spells in the game.
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Post Tuesday, 23rd January 2018, 22:11

Re: Pure caster advice

d3k0 wrote:Nothing, I think that Bolt of Cold removes 10% of their life. Bah. How do you kill them? Even 3 Fire Storms were not enough. And they regenerates fast...

While it's already been said, I just want to emphasize that there is nothing in the game that can't be reasonably killed with fire storm. It will destroy everything. It is somewhat less efficient against fire immune things, and having some alternative is handy, but fire storm can be used to kill everything in the game. Iron shot/LCS/OOD are more mana efficient options for things that are immune to fire, or you can use another level 9 spell they don't resist (tornado, glaciate, shatter), but that's only commonly done when you're planning on clearing a ziggurat; it requires a great deal of experience. If you do want to fully clear a zigg (after you've mastered the regular win) usually firestorm + tornado is used to deal with swarms.

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Post Wednesday, 24th January 2018, 06:00

Re: Pure caster advice

It takes too much time and effort to kill orbs of fire with fire storm in my experience (read: 60 MP as DE of Vehumet wasn't enough). Everything can be killed by club or dagger too but obviously it is a bad idea.
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Post Wednesday, 24th January 2018, 23:16

Re: Pure caster advice

VeryAngryFelid wrote:It takes too much time and effort to kill orbs of fire with fire storm in my experience (read: 60 MP as DE of Vehumet wasn't enough).
Interesting that you include your god but not your spellpower...

IMO fire storm is the best spell in the game against orbs of fire. Yes, it takes more casts than Glaciate to kill them, but it still does a lot of damage, it has twice the range, and orbs of fire are completely incapable of damaging fire vortices, so they shield you from fireballs and polymorph.

And shatter does literally no damage to orbs of fire. They're insubstantial.

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Post Thursday, 25th January 2018, 01:48

Re: Pure caster advice

actually, shatter now does 1 die of damage to insubstantial monsters in trunk (vs 3 for normal monsters)

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Post Thursday, 25th January 2018, 07:03

Re: Pure caster advice

duvessa wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:It takes too much time and effort to kill orbs of fire with fire storm in my experience (read: 60 MP as DE of Vehumet wasn't enough).
Interesting that you include your god but not your spellpower...

IMO fire storm is the best spell in the game against orbs of fire. Yes, it takes more casts than Glaciate to kill them, but it still does a lot of damage, it has twice the range, and orbs of fire are completely incapable of damaging fire vortices, so they shield you from fireballs and polymorph.

And shatter does literally no damage to orbs of fire. They're insubstantial.
DE has the highest Int in the game and Vehumet does not help at all. I don't remember my spell power as that game was about 3 years ago. I still remember that I hasted, spent all my MP with firestorms at a single orb of fire and then had to quaff potion of magic to finally kill it. Firestorm is nice for protection vs mutations though.
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