Mines Malingerer
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Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Mines Malingerer
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Abyss Ambulator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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4Hooves2Appendages wrote:So far I have read no opinion calling the amulet good.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Abyss Ambulator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sprucery wrote:Imo it should be clear that an amulet which increases the damage done more than it increases the damage received is good for some characters.
Abyss Ambulator
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VeryAngryFelid wrote:If a character wins with amulet of harm, it means it would never be at low HP without amulet of harm.
Ziggurat Zagger
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4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Not necessarily. Killings things faster, which the amulet does help with, often redues HP loss.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sprucery wrote:If amulet of harm is always bad, how about an amulet that decreased damage both ways? Would it be always good?
Abyss Ambulator
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VeryAngryFelid wrote:4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Not necessarily. Killings things faster, which the amulet does help with, often redues HP loss.
No, it does not work, I specifically mentioned how bad accuracy and damage are in crawl. You can spend 17 attacks to kill a monster which is expected to die in just 2 attacks according to fsim (I created a thread about it but I am too lazy to find it now).
Now assume that you can have this type of bad luck in every encounter and you will see why I was talking about either great defense/HP or luck.
Ziggurat Zagger
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4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Crawl does have a number of attacks that don't suffer from accuracy problems: Fireball, Freezing Cloud, stabbing, etc.
Abyss Ambulator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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4Hooves2Appendages wrote:I'm not actually defending amulet of harm, I'm just saying that killing things faster is good. I doubt anyone really disagrees with that.
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Vaults Vanquisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
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watertreatmentRL wrote:The analysis that even minor increases in damage the player takes create far more risk than the extra damage can offset is pretty much incontrovertible. The fact that players have won while using amulets of harm for a significant part of the game means absolutely nothing. So yeah, harm is bad.
Barkeep
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Ziggurat Zagger
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njvack wrote:I don't think a ratio totally sums it up; if there was something that increased incoming damage by 200% and outgoing damage by 2000% I wouldn't touch it because I'd worry about getting killed in like a turn and there's no reward for overkilling monsters.
I agree, though, that whether harm is good, bad, or situationally good is purely a matter of numbers.
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VeryAngryFelid wrote:I think it does not prove much. Many characters die to a single almost dead monster in view which would be dead with amulet of harm
Blades Runner
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Cocytus Succeeder
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duvessa wrote: , and much stronger than the rest of the amulets for most characters.
Abyss Ambulator
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Tomb Titivator
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VeryAngryFelid wrote:I instantly get into red draining after unequiping harm. Is losing 3 levels in weapon skill tiny?
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Crypt Cleanser
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Crypt Cleanser
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watertreatmentRL wrote:Well, let's put on our thinking caps here... How much does a shield change the maximum damage you can take on a given turn? Now, how about an amulet of harm?
Vaults Vanquisher
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watertreatmentRL wrote:Average damage tells you something about long term dynamics of combat, but it tells you nothing about whether you can die this turn. This is what maximum damage tells you. Whether or not you can die on the current turn is probably the most important question in crawl combat.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Vaults Vanquisher
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Majang wrote:To die or not to die in the next turn neither matters to you when you equip harm, nor when you go two-handed. It is a long-term-dynamics decision, which can get you killed in a fight going bad.
Mines Malingerer
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Cocytus Succeeder
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Schillernde wrote:This thread was a mistake.
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Slime Squisher
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watertreatmentRL wrote:Is this going to be another one of these threads where you repeatedly fail to understand what the discussion is about but nevertheless reply over and over again as if you're right about it anyway?
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