Proposed L1/2 transformation: Aspect of Demon

[smock]

I've heard wind of a need for one or more low-level transmutation spells that help with transmuters that transform.

Aspect of Demon: L1 or L2.
Gives some number of body mutations, depending on spell power and balance. The location of the slot should random I think, perhaps mediated by existing mutations. It could give just one level or up to 3 levels in multiple body slots as sufficient spell power. The drawback is that you lose armour slots. Armour worn in the slot or slots is melded.

Nice things about this spell:
The damage boost I think would not exceed that of other forms. (Though other forms have other advantages.)
It's not just a boring damage boost: Non-felids might loose armour slots.
It won't be too useful later on: most builds would want to retain the armour slot or would have access to a more powerful transformation.
More useful for species with fewer armour slots: Felids, Draconians, Ogres, etc. Putting horns and hooves on your poor underpowered ogre would not break it but would be a lot of fun.

This page has a list of proposals (https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:transmutation:transmutation) and some others are scattered in thread in the Tavern.

Any thoughts?

[ElectricAlbatross]

This is a good direction to be heading in. If we can come up with a well-made XL1/2 spell or two to put in the Transmuter background, then we could start discussing taking Fulsome Distillation/Evaporate out.

With regard to the proposed spell: Definitely very interesting. I'm not sure about its associations with demons, though—it restricts the flavor more than it needs to, especially if you don't only get demonic mutations. How about "Aspect of Beast" or similar?

[KoboldLord]

A random temporary body facet is a little problematic because it incentivizes standing just outside of LOS to a target and recasting the spell until you get the one you want. If you've found a good helm and gloves early, you would be rewarded for ending the transformation early any time it randomly picked anything but talons or hooves.

[smock]

The only demonic aspect is the random body slot mutation thing. Aspect of Beast sounds good.

@KL: Good point. A long cooldown, a la berserking's exhaustion, might allay the issue. Waiting out the cooldown to try again would impose a hunger and possible piety costs. Removing the randomness would pretty much turn it into "Shark Maw" from the wiki.

[nicolae]

@KL: Good point. A long cooldown, a la berserking's exhaustion, might allay the issue. Waiting out the cooldown to try again would impose a hunger and possible piety costs. Removing the randomness would pretty much turn it into "Shark Maw" from the wiki.

What's wrong with Shark Maw? Sharks are pretty great.

[KoboldLord]

What's wrong with Shark Maw? Sharks are pretty great.

A low-level buff that gives a bonus with no drawbacks and that is never superceded is a low-level buff that you keep casting before every fight in the entire game. Shark Maw would end up on nearly every endgame spell list for hybrid characters, since it's free damage and odds are the helm you're melding isn't all that awesome anyway. The trends in development are to move away from low-level buffs that everybody wants at every stage of the game.

For a form-lite that melds only one body slot, claws are probably going to be the best bet. A claw spell will eventually get superceded by Blade Hands, which is a late-game staple that transmuters are probably already planning for the moment they start on D1.

[nicolae]

A low-level buff that gives a bonus with no drawbacks and that is never superceded is a low-level buff that you keep casting before every fight in the entire game. Shark Maw would end up on nearly every endgame spell list for hybrid characters, since it's free damage and odds are the helm you're melding isn't all that awesome anyway. The trends in development are to move away from low-level buffs that everybody wants at every stage of the game.

That's a really good point.

[RFHolloway]

Could the mutation fade or timeout, or randomly reset if recast. a set list of mutations could be fine - most with positives and negatives - perhaps even some extra ones only available through the spell. If there are enough of them the recasting thing becomes less attractive as you have to recast it multiple times.

some examples
hooves - aux attack, - to stealth, no boots, increase to speed?
fangs - aux attack
horns - aux attack no helms
Claws (ghoul size) - no gloves, improvement to unarmed
scales - plus to AC or plus to resistances
antenae - level 1 passive mapping
gills - can cross deep water
wings - can levitate?
prehensile tail - ???

[Dustbin]

The spell could generate some light glow much like haste or invis, to make casting it till you get the one you want quite costly in turns (which also costs hunger), this could make it viable to keep them random.

[Kroet]

Perhaps the mutation could change randomly while the spell is being cast (same power of mutation but different armor slot). Then it doesn't make sense to cast it multiple times till you get the right armor slot. It makes the spell a bit unreliable, but it shouldn't be a problem for low level characters.

[smock]

Dustbin and Kroet make good points.

Light contamination would mean it can't be recast safely until the contamination is gone. It's a more elegant way to prevent multiple sequential casts than something parallel to berserk exhaustion.

The mutation having a good chance to change would mean that players can't just wait for a good mutation -- say, hooves -- that preserve their rF+ helmet armour slot because horns could appear at any moment, melding the helmet. My guess is that this would be more fun than annoying. You could only use the spell if you don't mind having any and all armour suddenly meld. However, it would still make sense to recast until you get your preferred body slot mutation set. Perhaps having mutations change alongside magical contamination would prevent recasting?

[nicolae]

Well, smock, it sounds like you've made it.

  Code:

f74efd8 | Adam Borowski | 2011-09-27 14:33:43 +0200

Remove Evap and Fulsome from Tm starting book, add a new spell: Beastly Appendage.
It gives you a temporary aux mutation on an uncovered body slot.

Not balanced at all, please help determine what appropriate mutation levels would be.

It's level 1, trying it out now. I miss the loss of FD/Evap but BA is pretty fun so far, and at only 1 MP a pop I can just use it whenever I want.

[jpeg]

Well, smock, it sounds like you've made it.

  Code:

f74efd8 | Adam Borowski | 2011-09-27 14:33:43 +0200

Remove Evap and Fulsome from Tm starting book, add a new spell: Beastly Appendage.
It gives you a temporary aux mutation on an uncovered body slot.

Not balanced at all, please help determine what appropriate mutation levels would be.

It's level 1, trying it out now. I miss the loss of FD/Evap but BA is pretty fun so far, and at only 1 MP a pop I can just use it whenever I want.

So, who gets Fulsome + Evaporate now? A new background 'Alchemist'?

[Galefury]

Stalkers still have Fulsome + Evaporate. But there's a lot of talk of removing them, and Fulsome with them.

[joellercoaster]

That's a pity. I like Fulsome Distillation as an idea (and indeed in practice) - I think it should be expanded and retooled into a full-on playstyle, not removed altogether as a munchkinism.

On the other hand though (heh), Beastly Appendage is great, nice job

[edit: 2 things though,

1) Felids always get horns. This is not terrible, but it is kind of funny, and

2) It still prevents butchering (for humans) even when you get horns. This seems wrong.]

[galehar]

Stalkers still have Fulsome + Evaporate. But there's a lot of talk of removing them, and Fulsome with them.

Stalker is just about using the fulsome/evap combo. The Tmut/stab part can be done just as well as an EE, and evap is noisy so it doesn't fit. One way to salvage fulsome/evap would be to replace Stalker by Alchemist.

[ElectricAlbatross]

Hooray! I've been waiting for this change for ages. Congrats to smock for the spell idea that finally made it happen. Now I can no longer use Evaporate to take out an entire gnoll castle as an XL4 transmuter, and that is a GOOD THING.

[jpeg]

Stalkers still have Fulsome + Evaporate. But there's a lot of talk of removing them, and Fulsome with them.

Stalker is just about using the fulsome/evap combo. The Tmut/stab part can be done just as well as an EE, and evap is noisy so it doesn't fit. One way to salvage fulsome/evap would be to replace Stalker by Alchemist.

I'd love that. I'm still really fond of the Reverse Alchemy spell. Ignite Poison would work, too, but it'd be extremely strong in combination with Evaporate.

[nicolae]

I'd love that. I'm still really fond of the Reverse Alchemy spell.

Is that the one that turns some gold coins into a silver blast? I like that one too, I'd love to see it happen.

[Stormfox]

Transmuters still get advance knowledge of confusion and poison potions. Probably need to move this to whichever background (Stalker/Alchemist) ends up with Fulsome/Evaporate.

[ElectricAlbatross]

I'm trying Beastly Appendages with a TrTm; it's pretty amazing. When you have some modicum of Unarmed skill and claws AND horns or something, things die FAST.

Edit: Actually, this is probably way biased by the fact that I have 2,2 slaying. Will test further.

[Sjohara]

I just tried out a couple of Sludge Elf Transmuters in trunk, and my first impression is that Beastly Appendage is awful. It only does anything at all if you manage to land the appropriate secondary attack, which doesn't always trigger, and frequently misses even when it does. Especially at low unarmed skill, which a first-level transmuter has and can't afford to raise right away because magic skills are more important. Plus the duration is so short that you barely have time to finish a single fight with it. Tentacles prevent you from using thrown weapon on approaching or fleeing enemies, which is a minor nuisance. And after a couple of levels, you get Spider Form, which is massively better in every respect, and since Beastly Appendage is incompatible with forms, it then proceeds to never get used again for the rest of the game. Even against poison-immune enemies I felt stronger in Spider Form, because it's still a reliable +2 damage bonus (as opposed to an unreliable +who-knows damage bonus), an EV boost, and it allows for a quick escape. Bestial Appendage offers no defense or utility beyond a very small amount of random damage.

It also reduces the variety in your spellbook by a whole bunch. Transmuters already had a bit of an issue where a bunch of their spells left one another largely obsolete, but there are at least a couple distinctions between Spider Form, Ice Form, and Blade Hands that makes them feel a bit different and makes you glad you know them all (Spider is fast, Ice can swim and is the only one that can kill hydras, Blade Hands scales better with stats and equipment). Beastly Appendage adds nothing to the background starting from the instant you hit level 3, leaving you nothing but three mutually exclusive (if admittedly strong) melee boosters and Sticks to Snakes, which I've never found to be terribly useful due to how many turns it takes to get anything out of it. Maybe Evaporate was too powerful for a class that can already deal with tough monsters pretty well, but losing it and gaining nothing in return makes transmuters feel a bit flat.

[mumra]

I'd love that. I'm still really fond of the Reverse Alchemy spell.

Is that the one that turns some gold coins into a silver blast? I like that one too, I'd love to see it happen.

I proposed that version, not realising at the time that there was already a much older idea by dpeg which was basically the same but a blast of energy, which was called "Reverse Alchemy". Still, I think the silver could differentiate it more from other spells; extra damage against a lot of things that are often resistant to poison, access to an effect that you can't get by any other magical means (but with a resource cost), and naturally fitting the theme of "converting metals to other metals".

[galehar]

And after a couple of levels, you get Spider Form, which is massively better in every respect, and since Beastly Appendage is incompatible with forms, it then proceeds to never get used again for the rest of the game.

This is a part of the spell's design: it's supposed to be good only at the beginning of the game. It was never meant to be a competition to spider form or any other transformation. It's a L1 spell. Of course it becomes obsolete.

[smock]

Tms are a lot harder to play now! Beastly Appendage has a very nice flavor, tho. Thanks for adding it! Still, I rather miss distilling everything. On net, the Tm background seems a bit less fun (tho Evap is still too silly in too many cases, and OP was not good).

BA most certainly does not play the same roles the Evaporate did. This is good. While previously transmuters had a ranged inta-kill spell for most opponents without rPois this side of the lair, now they have almost nothing once Spider form is online. No way to disable opponents, no way to fog centaurs. BA will not help an XL8 Tm kill an Orc Warlord like Evap does. It's really a big change. Boosting BA's power a lot would still not compensate for the get out of jail free cards that FD/Evap provided. Maybe my testing was off base, but seemed it like spider form dealt more damage, even to rPois monsters.

I think BA could safely be buffed quite a bit. Even if it gave the equivalent of +5 slaying, Evap would still be better. Allow additional appendages (perhaps at higher power)? Or allow better appendages (hooves?) at higher power? While I understand that players need to be ambivalent about which mutation they get (to prevent spam-recasting until the best mutation is given), I think that additional levels or more appendages at higher power would not induce spamming.

I haven't tested BA with great armour, tho. I can imagine using BA with armour I don't want to meld until BH comes online. Anyone tried this?

I'm not sure if special effects of auxiliary attacks are set or still in flux. This might affect BA's power.

Debugging/comments: Octopodes can't use the spell -- seems like they could grow horns tho. Butchering should be allowed regardless of the BA mutation, IMO.

[Sjohara]

And after a couple of levels, you get Spider Form, which is massively better in every respect, and since Beastly Appendage is incompatible with forms, it then proceeds to never get used again for the rest of the game.

This is a part of the spell's design: it's supposed to be good only at the beginning of the game. It was never meant to be a competition to spider form or any other transformation. It's a L1 spell. Of course it becomes obsolete.

Freeze doesn't become worthless the instant you learn Throw Frost or even Throw Icicle because it tends to be more mana-efficient prior to the point where the power of your other spells has had time to build past its cap. Same with Sandblast and Shock and Magic Dart and Summon Small Mammals and pretty much every other spell I can think of. They gradually wane in relative usefulness as you progress towards the mid-game, of course, but they continue to serve a purpose for a decent amount of time. I'm not sure if there's even one spell in any other starting spellbook that you're guaranteed to never, ever cast again for any reason starting at level 3.

You could give Transmuters no level 1 spell at all and start them with a quarterstaff that they'll just throw away as soon as their unarmed damage doesn't suck and it'd be pretty much the same thing. That's what I did before, and I didn't feel any weaker then than Beastly Appendage makes me feel now. I just don't see the fun or usefulness in making a spell that players are desperate to get rid of rather than happy to have available, especially when you remove spells that ARE fun and useful (if admittedly probably overpowered in conjunction with the others) to make room for it.

I haven't tested BA with great armour, tho. I can imagine using BA with armour I don't want to meld until BH comes online. Anyone tried this?

The odds of finding early-game armor so amazing that it's more valuable to you than Spider Form's innate EV and swiftness or Ice Form's innate AC and health, AND worth sacrificing a large portion of your offensive capability, are effectively zero.

[roctavian]

Maybe BA could also impart wings or hooves randomly? Thus sometimes it isn't a combat bonus but instead helps you run away? That's probably making one spell do too many things, so perhaps more realistically there should be a new level 2 spell that helps transmuters get away?

Maybe something like Tm/Air spell that turns you into some kind of wisp that blinks uncontrollably? You'd have your offensive ability temporarily nerfed, and perhaps your HP too, but you stand a chance to get the hell out of a lot of situaions?

[smock]

I haven't tested BA with great armour, tho. I can imagine using BA with armour I don't want to meld until BH comes online. Anyone tried this?

The odds of finding early-game armor so amazing that it's more valuable to you than Spider Form's innate EV and swiftness or Ice Form's innate AC and health, AND worth sacrificing a large portion of your offensive capability, are effectively zero.

I meant my statement to be in reference to BA's usefulness in the midgame. I can see fighting a fire drake with BA if I find a rF+ robe, instead of Spider Form. So BA may be still be useful in the midgame, once some armour slots fill with goodies. BA may also prove more useful to hungering or low-int races (Centaur) as the L4/5 transformations are not regularly usable until much later for them.

I'd certainly prefer a L1 transformation that is occasionally useful in the midgame or even late game, as long as it's not used continuously. If it (or another low-level transformation) gave a stabbing bonus it'd be useful the entire game. (I'm not sure stabbing in particular would be a good idea but I hope it makes the point.)

I agree that it seem to lack punch early on. Then again it might be more effective than I give it credit for. Having a real damage/combat simulator in WizMode (or available to developers, or allowing players in the arena for testing) would be swell for this sort of thing. (How many turns w/o BA does it take to kill 10 kobolds? How many turns with BA?)

Is there info somewhere on the mean/max damage and accuracy of auxiliary unarmed attacks? I can only find base damages, which seem not to scale with UC apart from punches.

[Sjohara]

I haven't tested BA with great armour, tho. I can imagine using BA with armour I don't want to meld until BH comes online. Anyone tried this?

The odds of finding early-game armor so amazing that it's more valuable to you than Spider Form's innate EV and swiftness or Ice Form's innate AC and health, AND worth sacrificing a large portion of your offensive capability, are effectively zero.

I meant my statement to be in reference to BA's usefulness in the midgame. I can see fighting a fire drake with BA if I find a rF+ robe, instead of Spider Form. So BA may be still be useful in the midgame, once some armour slots fill with goodies. BA may also prove more useful to hungering or low-int races (Centaur) as the L4/5 transformations are not regularly usable until much later for them.

The lair (where you tend to find fire drakes) is plenty late enough to have Blade Hands castable. The hunger cost will still probably be bad, but I think I usually have it on at least Good by then, at least playing races with a positive Transmutation aptitude. Besides, you're extremely unlikely to have even one piece of good randart armor by Lair depth. I'm not really sure why you'd play a Centaur transmuter, and Spriggans are so squishy that they'd rather push Spellcasting hard and do hit-and-runs in Spider Form.

[jejorda2]

I'm not really sure why you'd play a Centaur transmuter

They get lots of HP, which is good when you are using melee for most of your damage.

Blade hands plus hooves does swell damage. Hoof damage isn't reduced by AC.

Being able to run away from most things without spider form is nice.

With a centaur, you can focus on being a monk and just use the forms when you need them.

[Kate]

You're likely to have Beastly Appendage at significantly higher success rate than Spider Form for a good chunk of time, I'm not sure why you'd claim it's obsoleted as soon you hit level 3.

Transmuters were plenty powerful even without the brokenness of Fulsome/Evaporate anyway, so BA seems like a perfectly appropriate addition and can just get minor tweaks if necessary.

[smock]

The lair (where you tend to find fire drakes) is plenty late enough to have Blade Hands castable. The hunger cost will still probably be bad, but I think I usually have it on at least Good by then, at least playing races with a positive Transmutation aptitude. Besides, you're extremely unlikely to have even one piece of good randart armor by Lair depth. I'm not really sure why you'd play a Centaur transmuter, and Spriggans are so squishy that they'd rather push Spellcasting hard and do hit-and-runs in Spider Form.

SeTMs sure can have BH castable entering lair. Not many other flavours. Centaurs and Nagas are both great transmuters but try probably won't have BH until the end of lair. Plus, BH makes it harder to cast spells, so it's not 100% better.

I don't think it's so rare to have an rC+ or rF+ robe by lair.

Transmuters were plenty powerful even without the brokenness of Fulsome/Evaporate anyway, so BA seems like a perfectly appropriate addition and can just get minor tweaks if necessary.

Sure, but now they have to run from ogres, orc priests are suddenly much more dangerous, etc. Replacing utility with raw damage output in a L1 spell is not a good trade for a background with access to SF and IF just a few levels later. This changes makes Tms much riskier from L2 (when evap comes online). They'll be much harder for less-experienced players in particular, make mistakes and still mop up with evap (as I often would). It should make D1 easier, tho.

Methinks Sticks to Snakes will finally get its day in the sun.

[nicolae]

You're likely to have Beastly Appendage at significantly higher success rate than Spider Form for a good chunk of time, I'm not sure why you'd claim it's obsoleted as soon you hit level 3.

If it was castable with Blade Hands active, that might make it useful for longer.

[Kate]

Sure, but now they have to run from ogres, orc priests are suddenly much more dangerous, etc.

And that's what Sticks to Snakes is for, yes (you even mentioned it yourself!).

[smock]

Which reminds me. Wood golems should leave corpses that can be used by StS to make guardian serpents, with a small chance of getting a serpent of hell.

(Only mostly joking, here. It would be really fun get giant snakes when casting StS next to a tree.)

[Hushed]

I think it should give horns 3, hooves 3, chaos branding and make Xom happy. Maybe make auxiliary attacks a teensy bit more reliable/common.

I've always liked the idea of having a demon form. And it should be Tranmutations/Hex

That would make it all thematic and cool.

Spider form would still be more powerful (massive evasion boost + speed boost), but I would still use it, especially if it would work with blade hands.

Loss of both boot and helm slots would make it a major trade middle/late game.

[betamin]

Demon form sounds awesome.

[nicolae]

*casts Animate Thread* I had an idea for nerfing Fulsome Distillation and this was the most recent thread I could find that discusses it.

What if Fulsome Distillation didn't use corpses as a reagent, but yourself? If you wanted a potion of poison, you'd have to get poisoned yourself and then cast FD to draw poison out of yourself. Sick -> confusion, strongly poisoned -> strong poison, rot -> degeneration. If you have multiple bad statuses, it picks one at random. It wouldn't cure the effect, though, because it only takes out a little of the toxin. (And takes some HP, as well, because it probably hurts like hell.)

You can't cast it on yourself when in good health, and the undead couldn't use it at all (though Vampire Stalkers might remain viable if they can distill themselves when sufficiently satiated). There's no way to get potions of water or mutation, and using it involves some degree of risk to the caster -- just like a good Necromancy spell should.

To prevent abuse, FD would prevent the ailment from being healed. The magical effects that draw the substance to the surface would make the toxins suffuse through your body, beyond the reach of other magics. You can distill any given status effect once; after that, though, you have to wait for it to run its course, and can't heal it or get another potion from it. (The good gods are probably powerful enough to cleanse the toxin anyway, being gods and all -- but the good gods also hate Necromancy, so you're kind of screwed there.) I feel like there's probably a number of potential abuses I'm missing, though.

[KoboldLord]

I suppose you could drop a dagger of venom in front of an orc pack. Let one pick it up and poison you, and then you run off to draw out the poison and rest up. Then you come back and let the same orc poison you again. And again. And so on.

[nicolae]

I suppose you could drop a dagger of venom in front of an orc pack. Let one pick it up and poison you, and then you run off to draw out the poison and rest up. Then you come back and let the same orc poison you again. And again. And so on.

Yeah, damn. Ugh, I wish this were Nethack, where my exceedingly brilliant* ideas wouldn't be ruined by concerns like spending ten thousand turns farming for potions of poison.

* i.e. "it hurts to look at them"

[cjo]

I downloaded Trunk so I could try the new transmuters. Let me mention that I was a bit surprised to find out that one goal of the change was to encourage more emphasis on the forms - all my transmuters always emphasized forms! My favorite thing was getting enough ranks of poison and ice to spend the vast majority of my time shifted. (I would actually rather give up blade hands than ice form, if forced to pick, because ice form lasts so much longer and I would just roam around in it.) So I was enthused about the change - I loved fulsome distillation and evaporate, but I agreed with the goal of emphasizing forms. I also agree that FD/E was a little overpowered.

Here's my impressions:

* Beastly appendage is a nice little level 1 spell that gets transmuters off to a good start on DL1. It does seem to go obsolete fairly quickly, but I don't mind that.

* Without the raw power of fulsome distillation / evaporate, the "sticks to snakes" spell becomes much more important. That's not all bad, since it's a decent spell. However, although I liked this spell in the past, once forced to rely on it more, I started to find it really fussy and fiddly. All that wielding and unwielding really started to grate.

* Transmuters used to use space very differently that other melee classes. They were one of the few fighter types that had a powerful incentive to fight in the open. At a minimum, you needed enough space to cast evaporate and not hit yourself (unless you were a naga). But you also benefitted from being able to skirt the cloud and hit enemies while they were still confused. Without evaporate, a transmuter wants to be in a corridor every time just like every other fighter. I really miss the difference.

* Transmuters used to have a "mad scientist" flavor about them. With the loss of FD/E, they primarily transmute their own bodies. The exception is "sticks to snakes," but that's only one spell. I now feel much more like a shapeshifter than like a transmuter. I would really like a way to effect the environment more.

My suggestions:

* Make "sticks to snakes" prompt you to select from inventory the way evaporate currently does. This is a buff because it makes the spell castable while shifted, and castable with less turns while not shifted. But since transmuters just got rather sharply nerfed, I don't think this modest buff would be too much, and it would be a HUGE convenience. There's no reason why this won't work, conceptually. Just envision the spell as merely requiring you to touch the stick in question. Even a spider can manage that.

* Give transmuters some spell which affects the environment, preferably one which can be cast in combat. Not stoneskin or condensation shield, these are really just more ways to change your own body. Something like petrify, passwall, or Leda's liquefaction. Or perhaps a new spell:

Proposed spell: Diffusion
This spell takes a portion of solid material on the ground and converts it to a diffuse form in the air. The effect is variable depending upon the material targeted. (Not a great description, but I can try to improve it later...)

Targets the ground, requires LOS
Effect is a 3x3 square
If the ground is stone or rock, you get the message "The air is filled with choking dust." It has a slowing effect on all mosters that need to breathe.
If you target a plant, you get the message "The air is filled with splinters of {plant}" and the result does damage in a 3x3 square.
If you target water, you get a steam cloud.
If you target grass, you get mud.
If you target ice, you get a freezing cloud (sounds great, but how often do you find ice outside an ice cave, where everything is cold resistant?)
If you target lava, you get clouds of flame.

This would add back the sense of shaping something besides yourself.

[XuaXua]

QUESTION: Is there a transmutation spell that lets you SWIM like a merfolk? Not Ice Form, which lets you float, but swim, so anything in deep water suddenly becomes accessible?

I ask because I believe as of right now, unless you are a merfolk, there is no way to reach deep water, and this could be a kick-ass transmuter spell.

[Galefury]

You can dry the water with Fedhas. That's it. There not being an easy way for most races to access items in deep water is intentional afaik (stashing, general relevancy of water).

[ElectricAlbatross]

* Transmuters used to have a "mad scientist" flavor about them. With the loss of FD/E, they primarily transmute their own bodies. The exception is "sticks to snakes," but that's only one spell. I now feel much more like a shapeshifter than like a transmuter. I would really like a way to effect the environment more.

I personally think that the flavor and playstyle of the Tm background used to be really diluted by the way it was trying to be both a "mad scientist" and a shapeshifter, two only vaguely related roles. New Tm has a much more straight-forward focus on melee combat, and is now a very compelling melee hybrid; it doesn't need any spell to pull it back out of that zone, in my opinion. It sounds like the new Alchemy school and the proposed Alchemist class (which will have FD/Evap) is what you want, and will have the mad scientist thing going in spades, instead of having just a couple of mad scientist spells.

* Give transmuters some spell which affects the environment, preferably one which can be cast in combat. Not stoneskin or condensation shield, these are really just more ways to change your own body. Something like petrify, passwall, or Leda's liquefaction. Or perhaps a new spell:

Proposed spell: Diffusion
This spell takes a portion of solid material on the ground and converts it to a diffuse form in the air. The effect is variable depending upon the material targeted. (Not a great description, but I can try to improve it later...)

Targets the ground, requires LOS
Effect is a 3x3 square
If the ground is stone or rock, you get the message "The air is filled with choking dust." It has a slowing effect on all mosters that need to breathe.
If you target a plant, you get the message "The air is filled with splinters of {plant}" and the result does damage in a 3x3 square.
If you target water, you get a steam cloud.
If you target grass, you get mud.
If you target ice, you get a freezing cloud (sounds great, but how often do you find ice outside an ice cave, where everything is cold resistant?)
If you target lava, you get clouds of flame.

This would add back the sense of shaping something besides yourself.

That's a perfect proposal for an Alchemy spell.

[evktalo]

cjo, thanks for the feedback. I haven't played the new Transmuters yet. But I'm happy to hear Sticks to Snakes getting more use - I think it's a great spell (both in usefulness and flavour-wise). Choosing what to cast on from inventory doesn't sound bad to me. How do you find Stalkers? They have FD + Evaporate, plus Petrify and Passwall which you suggest for Transmuters.

--Eino

[Kate]

Casting S2S from the inventory sounds okay to me as well, although I don't feel like it's that awkward currently - maybe that's because I mainly just use it on arrows though, rather than bigger sticks.

[dpeg]

Thanks to cjo from here as well.

S2S should be as convenient as possible (this goes for all item-using spells). The spell is good, but I don't see a reason, power or flavour or otherwise, not to make the change. Here is how I would go about it: When casting Sticks to Snakes, first use a suitable quivered item, if any. If none (quiver empty or quivered item un-snakifyable), prompt for inventory. (And abort the spell right away if the player is not carrying any appropriate stick -- does it already?)

[cerebovssquire]

Currently, you receive the message "Your hands feel slithery" when you cast S2S without the appropriate items wielded.

[cjo]

That's a perfect proposal for an Alchemy spell.

Cool, is there a more appropriate place I can suggest this spell? I don't know what is being planned for alchemists, but I am excited by the idea of a full-fledged mad scientist.

I'm glad people like the sticks to snakes suggestion, and I really like dpeg's additional suggestion that the spell default to whatever is quivered. I added it to the bottom of the wiki page using the link at the beginning of this thread.