Draconian Advice


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 14:07

Draconian Advice

Hello! I've been playing Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup for a little while, but my characters tend to die either before Lair, or manage to get through Lair only to die in the first Rune branch attempted (e.g. Snake Pit). Not too long ago, I listened to a Roguelike Radio episode about how expert players learn how to consistently win Crawl and ADOM. They seemed to suggest trying out a variety of characters even if they are not usually considered to be optimal, instead of "banging your head against the wall" with the same build over and over.

Then I decided to play around with other races, and thought "why not play a Draconian Wizard"? I got to about D:11 or D:12 despite having little idea as to what I was doing with a Wizard, thanks to the breath weapon, Qazlal's clouds, and a lucky Poison Short Sword that I found early. After a while, I mostly neglected the spells other than Mephitic Cloud. I only died thanks to my own hubris when I thought I could beat a powerful player ghost.

My current character is now a Draconian Berserker that uses Polearms, in the hopes that I'll get a breath weapon at level 7, or at least become a tougher melee character if I get a form without breath attacks. I like the fact that Berserkers start with powerful early buffs without having to wait for the Temple and gain a lot of piety.

Which backgrounds and gods do other players use for their Draconians?
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4360

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 14:42

Re: Draconian Advice

Dr is decent overall, but for example DrIE and DrCj are good. As for gods, pick one that you find early and which is not a challenge god (Xom, Qaz, Chei).
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa

For this message the author Sprucery has received thanks:
Herman Gigglethorpe

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 15:10

Re: Draconian Advice

Sprucery wrote:Dr is decent overall, but for example DrIE and DrCj are good. As for gods, pick one that you find early and which is not a challenge god (Xom, Qaz, Chei).


I understand why Xom and Chei are challenging to work with, but why Qazlal? I guess it's all the noise that Qazlal makes, even though I don't typically play stealth characters. I never have much luck with Sif Muna and Vehumet, despite being frequently recommended.

My Draconian got the Ice form this playthrough, which is nice for the cold resistance, but the breath is underwhelming. So many enemies resist Ice in this game, especially with all the undead early on. Tales of Maj'Eyal has a similar problem with its Ice element.

"Stair dancing" works pretty well for this character, and I'm realizing the value of scroll and food shops.
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4360

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 15:19

Re: Draconian Advice

Herman Gigglethorpe wrote:I understand why Xom and Chei are challenging to work with, but why Qazlal? I guess it's all the noise that Qazlal makes, even though I don't typically play stealth characters.

It's one thing to be unstealthy (things notice you as you approach them) and another thing to be very noisy (all monsters on the level head in your direction).

I never have much luck with Sif Muna and Vehumet, despite being frequently recommended.

You can try Fedhas, Gozag, Kiku or Ru for a change.
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 15:57

Re: Draconian Advice

This Draconian may become my most successful character. *Knocks on wood*

I've mostly cleared out the Lair. I fell through a shaft into Lair 6 surrounded by enemies and managed to fight my way out with a teleport scroll and Trog's powers. The two Rune branches available right now are the spider cave and the swamp. The problem is that I haven't found any poison resistance yet thanks to an oddly low number of rings and enchanted equipment. So my options are pretty much these: Go to the Orcish Mines and hope for item drops/shops, go to the spider cave and probably die like my best Minotaur, go to the Swamp where I have no experience whatsoever, or clear out the main Dungeon up to D:15.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 18

Joined: Friday, 3rd March 2017, 15:24

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 17:37

Re: Draconian Advice

After I clear lair what typicallly works for me is to clear the dungeon/orcish mines next. Their difficulty level is usually lower then the rune branches.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 18:09

Re: Draconian Advice

Demo wrote:After I clear lair what typicallly works for me is to clear the dungeon/orcish mines next. Their difficulty level is usually lower then the rune branches.


I ended up dying to several Spriggan Druids "calling" me in the Swamp. The hornet riders can be a pain too. There seems to be a difficulty spike in the rune branches. Is there anything I should have done differently, other than I guess using the teleport wand several times in a row to avoid certain fights? You can't really run from Spriggans by walking away because they're a fast race.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 217

Joined: Tuesday, 21st February 2012, 21:32

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 18:38

Re: Draconian Advice

I usually don't enter the lair's rune branches until I've cleared lair, orc, and dungeon. And I usually don't go into the last level (level four with the rune) until I've cleared as much of everything else as possible, including some of the safer parts of Elf.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 22:54

Re: Draconian Advice

ddubois wrote:I usually don't enter the lair's rune branches until I've cleared lair, orc, and dungeon. And I usually don't go into the last level (level four with the rune) until I've cleared as much of everything else as possible, including some of the safer parts of Elf.


What are the enemy "danger levels" based on? e.g. "This enemy is easy" and "This enemy is extremely dangerous". Knowing what triggers it might help me out somewhat. Thanks for the advice regarding branch order!

bel

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2184

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 00:23

Re: Draconian Advice

You should post a character dump or morgue of your dead character. It will make the advice you receive more concrete and relevant. People can also point out other areas you may have overlooked; often the situation that killed you is a symptom of a deeper problem with the way you built the character.

In general, I like to play with as few different characters as possible when I'm learning the game; if I try out too many different characters, I don't understand what works and what doesn't. So I would play MiBe, some kind of conjurer (DrCj or DEFE), CeHu, or SpEn in the beginning, till I have won the game with at least one of them.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 01:57

Re: Draconian Advice

bel wrote:You should post a character dump or morgue of your dead character. It will make the advice you receive more concrete and relevant. People can also point out other areas you may have overlooked; often the situation that killed you is a symptom of a deeper problem with the way you built the character.

In general, I like to play with as few different characters as possible when I'm learning the game; if I try out too many different characters, I don't understand what works and what doesn't. So I would play MiBe, some kind of conjurer (DrCj or DEFE), CeHu, or SpEn in the beginning, till I have won the game with at least one of them.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.4 (tiles) character file.

78708 Shoryuken IV the Warrior (level 15, -19/166 HPs)
             Began as a White Draconian Berserker on Mar 21, 2017.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Demolished by a tyrant leech (42 damage)
             ... called by a spriggan druid
             ... called by a spriggan druid
             ... on level 3 of the Swamp on Mar 22, 2017.
             The game lasted 02:04:38 (37438 turns).

Shoryuken IV the Warrior (DrBe)                    Turns: 37438, Time: 02:04:38

Health: -19/166    AC: 15    Str: 21    XL:     15   Next: 18%
Magic:  7/7        EV: 21    Int:  7    God:    Trog [*****.]
Gold:   1364       SH:  7    Dex: 16    Spells: 0 memorised, 14 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    K - +4 spear (antimagic)
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    (armour unavailable)
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    H - +2 buckler
rPois  +          Spirit   .    (helmet restricted)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Harm     .    p - +1 pair of gloves
MR     +....                    (no boots)
Stlth  +.........               (no amulet)
                                P - ring of poison resistance
                                e - +4 ring of protection

@: exhausted, very slightly contaminated, slowed, very slow
A: breathe frost, unfitting armour, cold resistance 1, robust 1, cold-blooded,
AC +9
a: Breathe Frost, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks,
Renounce Religion


You were on level 3 of the Swamp.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was extremely pleased with you.
You were very hungry.

You visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and saw 23 of its levels.

You collected 2091 gold pieces.
You spent 727 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 K - a +4 antimagic spear (weapon)
Missiles
 k - 481 stones (quivered)
Armour
 p - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 H - a +2 buckler (worn)
Jewellery
 e - a +4 ring of protection (left hand)
 q - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion {unknown}
 y - a +4 ring of evasion
 G - a +3 ring of evasion
 P - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
Wands
 a - a wand of confusion (22/48)
 i - a wand of acid (0/15)
 m - a wand of flame (34/48)
 o - a wand of disintegration (7/24)
 z - a wand of enslavement (9/24)
 C - a wand of confusion (32/48)
 E - a wand of iceblast (0/15)
 I - a wand of teleportation (3/9)
 J - a wand of iceblast (0/15)
 M - a wand of digging (13/24)
 N - a wand of teleportation (4/9)
 O - a wand of flame (39/48)
 R - a wand of flame (38/48)
Scrolls
 d - 8 scrolls of remove curse
 l - 2 scrolls of recharging
 r - 2 scrolls of blinking
 t - 4 scrolls of fog
 v - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon
 L - a scroll of fear
Potions
 c - 3 potions of agility
 h - 2 potions of brilliance
 j - 2 potions of ambrosia
 n - 2 potions of cancellation
 s - a potion of might
 u - 2 potions of flight
 w - 4 potions of cure mutation
 x - a potion of resistance
 B - 4 potions of curing
 S - a potion of berserk rage
Comestibles
 b - 12 bread rations
 f - 5 meat rations
 g - 3 chunks of flesh
 D - 19 beef jerkies
 U - 2 fruits


   Skills:
 * Level 18.9 Fighting
 * Level 14.2 Polearms
 - Level 12.0 Dodging
 - Level 4.1 Shields
 - Level 11.0 Evocations


You had 14 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/15)            Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:9
  Swamp (3/4) Lair:2       Spider (0/4) Lair:2          Orc (2/2) D:9
    Elf (0/3) Orc:2       
 Slime: Lair:5-6   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Fedhas
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Zin
Beogh

Shops:
D:4 ?*?[[   D:9 }=   Orc:2 (([

Annotations:
D:9 exclusion: ice statue
Lair:5 exclusion: oklob plant


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can breathe waves of freezing cold.
You can buffet flying creatures when you breathe cold.
Your icy white scales are hard. (AC +9)
You cannot fit into any form of body armour.
Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+)
You are cold-blooded and may be slowed by cold attacks.
You are robust. (+10% HP)


Message History

The tyrant leech misses you.
You puncture the spriggan! Your tail-slap misses the spriggan.
The spriggan is almost dead.
You puncture the spriggan!
You kill the spriggan!
Trog accepts your kill.
The tyrant leech closely misses you.
Things that are here:
a quarterstaff of crushing; a robe; a spriggan corpse
You puncture the hornet!
The hornet is severely wounded.
The hornet stings you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You puncture the hornet!
You kill the hornet!
Trog accepts your kill.
You are no longer berserk.
You are exhausted.
You feel yourself slow down. The tyrant leech bites you!!!
You die...

  ??§˜....˜˜.?
  ?˜...˜˜˜˜˜.
  ?.˜˜)˜˜˜˜.?
    ˜˜.˜˜˜˜˜?
˜.   ˜˜.˜˜˜.?
˜.?????.˜˜˜.?
˜.....˜.˜˜˜.?  ??
˜..˜˜˜??.@..???.??
˜i˜˜˜˜.˜.)w.§§˜˜.?
˜˜˜˜˜˜....˜§§§˜˜.?
˜˜˜˜˜˜˜??.˜§§?????
˜˜˜˜˜.? ?˜.§§?  ??
.˜˜%)˜?????§??  ?˜
˜?.)...˜?????????.
.˜..O˜÷...???.....
.˜..Di˜˜˜....˜˜˜..
.???y.˜˜§...˜˜˜˜.˜


You could see a tyrant leech.

Vanquished Creatures
  A tentacled monstrosity (Swamp:3)
  Gastronok (Lair:1)
  A thorn hunter (Swamp:1)
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  Aizul (Swamp:1)
  11 hydras
  The ghost of Bill Gates the Grappler, a novice TrFi of Ru (D:8)
  12 alligators
  An orc high priest (Orc:2)
  A death yak (Lair:3)
  Nergalle (D:10)
  A spriggan druid (Swamp:3)
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:2)
  4 hill giants
  4 swamp dragons
  Pikel (D:3)
  4 orc knights
  2 orc sorcerers (Orc:2)
  A deep elf mage (D:11)
  An ugly thing (D:11)
  2 cyclopes
  2 black mambas
  14 spiny frogs
  A torpor snail (Lair:3)
  A rime drake (Lair:2)
  5 komodo dragons
  2 trolls
  6 tyrant leeches
  10 polar bears (Lair:6)
  5 slime creatures (Swamp:1)
  6 hornets
  3 blink frogs (Lair:5)
  3 raiju (Lair:6)
  A dream sheep (Lair:6)
  2 hippogriffs
  A two-headed ogre (D:10)
  A shadow (Swamp:3)
  9 spriggans
  3 wyverns
  31 yaks
  5 basilisks
  A hill giant zombie (D:9)
  A steam dragon (D:11)
  11 vampire mosquitoes (Swamp:1)
  3 hungry ghosts
  5 insubstantial wisps (Swamp:2)
  11 wargs
  Edmund (D:6)
  5 hell hounds (Lair:6)
  7 swamp worms
  12 water moccasins
  25 orc warriors
  12 porcupines
  5 swamp drakes
  2 ice beasts (D:11)
  7 necrophages
  2 slaves (D:3)
  13 black bears (Lair:6)
  5 phantoms
  12 ogres
  11 wolves (Lair:6)
  7 centaurs
  5 crocodiles
  19 bullfrogs
  2 big kobolds
  A gnoll sergeant (D:6)
  2 troll zombies (D:9)
  5 scorpions
  11 killer bees
  13 wights
  The ghost of Shoryuken II the Ruffian, a weakling DrTm (D:3)
  A howler monkey (D:8)
  6 crimson imps
  3 centaur zombies
  A bullfrog zombie (D:11)
  2 quasits
  24 hounds
  A centaur skeleton (D:10)
  3 jellies
  2 bullfrog skeletons
  16 orc priests
  25 orc wizards
  Natasha (thrice) (D:2)
  7 iguanas
  9 worker ants
  3 ogre zombies (D:9)
  3 hound skeletons
  3 gnolls (D:6)
  6 adders
  2 shadow imps
  8 white imps
  3 oozes (D:2)
  3 adder zombies
  2 worms (D:4)
  2 dart slugs
  3 leopard geckos
  86 orcs
  8 bats
  5 giant cockroaches
  9 hobgoblins
  8 jackals
  5 quokkas
  A ball python (D:5)
  4 frilled lizards
  7 goblins
  2 goblin zombies (D:9)
  2 hobgoblin skeletons (D:9)
  2 hobgoblin zombies (D:9)
  A jackal skeleton (D:4)
  19 kobolds
  An orc skeleton (D:9)
  11 orc zombies (D:9)
  A quokka skeleton (D:5)
  A quokka zombie (D:8)
  7 rats
702 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A stone giant (Orc:1)
  2 orc sorcerers (Orc:1)
  A cyclops (Orc:2)
  A troll (Orc:2)
  3 dream sheep (Lair:6)
  2 blink frogs (Lair:6)
  A spriggan (Swamp:3)
  An ogre (Orc:1)
  An orc warrior (Orc:2)
  2 wolves (Lair:6)
  An orc priest (Orc:2)
  4 orcs (Orc:2)
20 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hornet (Swamp:3)
  A human (D:5)
  An orc wizard (Orc:2)
  An orc (Orc:2)
  4 bushes
  32 fungi
  42 plants
82 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 804 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Shoryuken IV the Draconian Berserker began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1
     3 | D:1      | Noticed a naga
     5 | D:1      | Noticed an octopode
     5 | D:1      | Noticed a gargoyle
     7 | D:1      | Noticed a halfling
     7 | D:1      | Noticed an elf
     9 | D:1      | Noticed an ogre
    11 | D:1      | Noticed a merfolk
    11 | D:1      | Noticed a spriggan
    13 | D:1      | Noticed a demonspawn
    13 | D:1      | Noticed a ghoul
    15 | D:1      | Noticed a felid
    17 | D:1      | Noticed a vine stalker
    17 | D:1      | Noticed a vampire
    19 | D:1      | Noticed a dwarf
    19 | D:1      | Noticed a demigod
    21 | D:1      | Noticed a human
    21 | D:1      | Noticed a draconian
    23 | D:1      | Noticed a tengu
    23 | D:1      | Noticed a centaur
    26 | D:1      | Noticed a formicid
    26 | D:1      | Noticed a minotaur
    28 | D:1      | Noticed a troll
   146 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 26/26 MP: 2/2
  1074 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/31 MP: 3/3
  1287 | D:2      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  1374 | D:2      | Reached ** piety under Trog
  1445 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
  1454 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
  1719 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 38/38 MP: 4/4
  1727 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms
  2018 | D:2      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  2446 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
  2453 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
  2741 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 45/45 MP: 5/5
  2867 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
  3017 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
  3158 | D:3      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  3749 | D:4      | Found Forip's Magic Scroll Emporium.
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 33 gold pieces
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 33 gold pieces
  3770 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
  3863 | D:4      | Found Olaem's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  3926 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  4276 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/51 MP: 6/6
  4341 | D:4      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4402 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4408 | D:4      | Found Mezxeuda's Armour Shop.
  4476 | D:3      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  4524 | D:3      | Noticed Shoryuken II's ghost (weakling DrTm)
  4532 | D:3      | Killed Shoryuken II's ghost
  4955 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4956 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4957 | D:4      | Noticed Pikel
  4957 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4981 | D:3      | Killed a slave
  4996 | D:3      | Killed a slave
  5055 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  5069 | D:3      | Killed Pikel
  5069 | D:3      | Your scales start taking on an icy white colour.
  5069 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 57/57 MP: 7/7
  5069 | D:3      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+) [White Draconian growth]
  5150 | D:4      | Found Ufrogic's General Store.
  5282 | D:4      | Found Kiutsun's Armour Boutique.
  5373 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5479 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5480 | D:5      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  5703 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 63/63 MP: 8/8
  5834 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  6594 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
  6708 | D:6      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
  6899 | D:6      | Killed Edmund
  6899 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  7162 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  7360 | D:6      | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
  7542 | D:7      | Noticed a hippogriff
  7556 | D:6      | Killed a hippogriff
  7556 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  7754 | D:6      | Paralysed by fainting for 9 turns
  8041 | D:7      | Reached *** piety under Trog
  8041 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 74/79 MP: 9/9
  8247 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  8292 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  9219 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
  9219 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 11213 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
 11522 | D:8      | Reached **** piety under Trog
 11539 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 90/90 MP: 10/10
 11642 | D:9      | Found Castrum's Food Shop.
 11652 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 11703 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11707 | D:9      | Found Qaroqor's Jewellery Boutique.
 11781 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
 11860 | D:9      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 12166 | D:8      | Noticed Bill Gates's ghost (novice TrFi)
 12467 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 12584 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 13124 | D:9      | Found Zumeil's Gadget Shoppe.
 13398 | D:9      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 13454 | D:9      | Noticed an ice statue
 14160 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of blinking for 97 gold pieces
 14160 | D:4      | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 39 gold pieces
 14331 | D:8      | Killed Bill Gates's ghost
 14331 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 14651 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
 14913 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 14949 | D:10     | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 14994 | D:9      | Killed a six-headed hydra
 14994 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 100/100 MP: 11/11
 15369 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 15388 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 15938 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 15952 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 16193 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 16207 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 16511 | D:11     | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 16656 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 16667 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 17009 | D:11     | Noticed Nergalle
 17010 | D:11     | Noticed a spectral orc warlord
 17030 | D:10     | Killed Nergalle
 18009 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 18356 | D:11     | Noticed a deep elf mage
 18490 | D:9      | Bought a bread ration for 55 gold pieces
 18490 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 18490 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 18490 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 18539 | D:12     | Noticed a purple ugly thing
 18602 | D:11     | Killed a purple ugly thing
 18602 | D:11     | Reached ***** piety under Trog
 18763 | D:12     | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 18861 | D:12     | Found a frozen archway.
 18877 | D:11     | Killed a four-headed hydra
 19411 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 19693 | D:11     | Killed a deep elf mage
 19693 | D:11     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 101/110 MP: 5/15
 19760 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 20067 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 20106 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 21964 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You are robust. (+10% HP) [potion of beneficial mutation]
 21970 | Lair:1   | Noticed Gastronok
 21990 | Lair:1   | Killed Gastronok
 21990 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 22133 | Lair:2   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 22688 | Lair:2   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 23036 | Lair:3   | Found a dark tunnel.
 23124 | Lair:3   | Noticed a death yak
 23273 | Lair:3   | Killed a death yak
 23285 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 127/127 MP: 7/21
 25806 | Lair:5   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 25828 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 26596 | Lair:5   | You fall through a shaft!
 26596 | Lair:6   | Entered Level 6 of the Lair of Beasts
 27466 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 28103 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 29235 | D:9      | Bought a meat ration for 55 gold pieces
 29273 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 29523 | D:9      | Received a gift from Trog
 30125 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 30684 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 30684 | Orc:2    | Found Fetaaj's Antique Armour Shop.
 30684 | Orc:2    | Found Fiwuhuf's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 30684 | Orc:2    | Noticed an orc warlord
 30689 | Orc:2    | Found Paimpoown's Antique Weapon Shop.
 30689 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 30864 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 31337 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 31342 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 31518 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 31520 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 14. HP: 146/146 MP: 7/22
 32040 | Orc:2    | Noticed a stone giant
 32067 | Orc:1    | Killed a stone giant
 32264 | Orc:2    | Killed an orc warlord
 32524 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 33028 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 33184 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 16 in Fighting
 33487 | Swamp:1  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 33501 | Swamp:1  | Killed a thorn hunter
 33696 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Aizul
 33728 | Swamp:1  | Killed Aizul
 34318 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting
 35037 | Swamp:2  | Received a gift from Trog
 36034 | Swamp:2  | Reached skill level 18 in Fighting
 36288 | Swamp:3  | Noticed a tentacled monstrosity
 36313 | Swamp:3  | Killed a tentacled monstrosity
 36630 | Swamp:3  | Reached XP level 15. HP: 165/165 MP: 7/23
 37438 | Swamp:3  | Demolished by a tyrant leech

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------+-----
Polearms       |     4     5  6  9    10    11 12       13 14 | 14.2
Fighting       |                       7  8 11 12    15 18    | 18.9
Dodging        |                       3  8          10 12    | 12.0
Evocations     |                                4 11          | 11.0
Shields        |                                4             |  4.1

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Spear             |   116 |   174 |   572 |   681 |  1879 ||  3422
       Tailslap          |    13 |    29 |    92 |   222 |   364 ||   720
       Trident           |       |       |       |   477 |       ||   477
Throw: Stone             |       |       |       |     1 |     5 ||     6
Invok: Berserk           |     4 |    11 |    14 |    34 |    52 ||   115
       Trog's Hand       |     1 |       |       |     4 |    17 ||    22
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |       |     1 |     3 ||     4
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |       |     8 ||     8
 Abil: Breathe Frost     |       |       |     5 |     4 |     1 ||    10
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |    11 |    15 ||    26
  Use: Scroll            |     4 |    10 |     9 |    15 |    12 ||    50
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |     5 |     5 ||    12
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     2 |       |     2 |     1 ||     5
       Distracted        |       |       |     1 |     1 |     2 ||     4
  Eat: Chunk             |     6 |    13 |    18 |    38 |    72 ||   147
       Bread ration      |       |     1 |     1 |       |       ||     2
       Meat ration       |       |     1 |       |     5 |     3 ||     9
       Fruit             |       |       |     5 |     5 |    10 ||    20
       Beef jerky        |       |       |     3 |     4 |     3 ||    10
       Pizza             |       |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Skin              |    32 |    33 |   140 |   180 |   203 ||   588
Dodge: Dodged            |    48 |    59 |   362 |   670 |  1065 ||  2204
Block: Buckler           |       |       |       |   120 |   405 ||   525



Here's the Notepad morgue file for the Draconian Berserker, copied and pasted. I hope this will help!
Last edited by njvack on Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added code tags
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4360

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 07:18

Re: Draconian Advice

Put that character dump between Code tags, it will be much nicer to read that way, thanks!
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4434

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 14:17

Re: Draconian Advice

Mod note: added code tags around character dump.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4360

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 14:36

Re: Draconian Advice

A +4 spear is a bad weapon at that point of the game. Surely there was a better polearm somewhere, and you even had 5 scrolls of enchant weapon to use on something...?
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
Bloat: 4: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 17:10

Re: Draconian Advice

Herman Gigglethorpe wrote:
ddubois wrote:I usually don't enter the lair's rune branches until I've cleared lair, orc, and dungeon. And I usually don't go into the last level (level four with the rune) until I've cleared as much of everything else as possible, including some of the safer parts of Elf.


What are the enemy "danger levels" based on? e.g. "This enemy is easy" and "This enemy is extremely dangerous". Knowing what triggers it might help me out somewhat. Thanks for the advice regarding branch order!

I think it depends quite a bit on your character and gear as well.

There are whole threads about this, but here are some general guidelines imo.

From around D:10 on, the odds of meeting things that are invisible and very mean (unseen horrors) or dangerously good with missiles (cyclops) and may come in packs (centaur gangs) start to increase dramatically. There are some possible uniques or odd vaults that are especially lethal at what they do. Quite a few newer players hit a difficulty spike around D:10 I've seen. Including me back when I wasn't ready for it.

The last level of each branch ups the number and quality of opponents generally. A well-equipped character can often finish off a whole branch at a time... But don't fret backing out and gearing from another route first if you are having a hard time!

Lair can sometimes hurt more if you lack poison resistance (spiny frogs, black mamba, possible snake or spider branch sentries). It becomes easier if you have a weapon of freezing, draining, or generally something that hits really hard. You also sooner or later want something for tackling hydrae that doesn't multiply their heads.

Orc is a pushover if you have a way to tear through living targets quickly, usually... But it will have more hardened targets than Lair (warriors, knights, possible trolls), plenty of regular priests to make AOE/bolts/ranged attacks desirable, and some more potentially nasty magic users toward the end.

Swamp and Spider are often considered easier than the other Lair branches (but they have no chance of shops). Slime is a more advanced place, for much later.

Spider, Snake and maybe Swamp are more difficult without poison resistance (some veterans will debate this, but I think it's sound enough advice to start with). Bringing your own poison to Spider can help if you have it strong enough. Shoals is generally more nasty, unless you have high evasion, perhaps invisibility and some cold resistance -- and decent to awesome offense is almost a must. Shoals just has all sorts of opponents with serious attacks (plenty of ranged, ranged magic, high damage cold magic, heavy melee, speed/flying/groups, attack from deep water).

Elf is a strange case. It can seem pretty easy starting out if you're loaded with heavy anti-personnel weapons (stuff that smashes living or ignores evasion). Although, note some layouts can make even the top level considerably harder to break into -- there are some mean ambushes. Beyond that though: There are quite a few one-shot wonders in Elf that will smash you back if you give them too many chances -- or occasionally, you just get bum luck. One big spell gets through your defenses, or you lack magic resistance and get tossed into the Abyss. There is a massive concentration of more nasty casters and archers on the last level with bigger demons and harder physical attacks, which can make it feel much much worse if you're having a bad day there. Oh, and there are quite a few artifacts on the elves too. Lovely if you can get some, but not so nice while they are used against you.
Online game stats & morgues
More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 21:54

Re: Draconian Advice

This has nothing to do with Draconians, but it might lead to useful discussion, especially for those of us like me who are still trying to figure out how to get the basic 3-rune victory on Crawl 0.19.

I chose a Minotaur Fighter for this run, named Aegeus. Why a Fighter instead of a Berserker? Fighters would require me to be a little bit smarter early on, and Berserker is a bit of a strange case because it's a Zealot class. Most backgrounds require the player to delay choosing a god and losing out on early piety, so I wanted a more typical Crawl playthrough for the sake of practice. I was already familiar with the basics of Minotaurs, and Draconians can't wear body armor, making Fighter a bit less attractive for them. (Fighter isn't one of their "recommended backgrounds" anyway)

Maces and Flails seem to be the most commonly recommended weapons in the wiki and the forums, so I went with that. I had considered Polearms, but I think that the reason to go Maces and Flails had to do with the lower skill investment required (for Demon Whips) and greater availability of enchanted weapons? Whatever the case, a range 1 weapon works with the Minotaur headbutt.

On D:1, I immediately set my skills to Manual and set Maces and Flails to 100%. They say that melee characters should train their weapon until it hits "minimum delay", which I know has something to do with attack speed, but not exactly what. Since I'm using a regular Flail at the moment, it looks like 14 Maces and Flails should be my target. However, I wonder about diminishing returns for skill investment. Would it make more sense to train Fighting instead before 14 Maces and Flails to gain extra HP? Or perhaps Armor? Maces and Flails is currently at 4.7, and all other skills are at their default values.

The first floor was uneventful because Minotaurs murder the rats, kobolds, goblins, and occasional gnoll. At the end of the floor, I read all my scrolls to identify them. I didn't want to do it earlier in case I got teleported to an area surrounded by enemies or something. I got a Scroll of Identify, which I used on a potion revealing it to be Heal Wounds. I also got Enchant Weapon, so I used it on my Flail. I still don't have much of an idea what the +1s are supposed to do. The other scroll is Amnesia, which is useless for me right now. My Level 3 stat point went into Dexterity, because Minotaurs already have enough Strength, and I heard that you get more headbutts with higher Dexterity.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that I still have only the default equipment right now.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5333

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 23rd March 2017, 23:53

Re: Draconian Advice

It is true that dex adds (slightly) more to headbutt than strength, but that isn't a big issue. The main reason you want dexterity is so that you can pump dodging and get higher EV. Minotaurs are slightly pushed towards armor skill, but even in very heavy armor they can still get pretty good EV, due to high dodging aptitude, great dex (since you're picking it every 3 levels) and normal size. It isn't going to be spriggan EV, but since you're probably wearing plate, getting up to 20 EV is huge.

For this message the author tasonir has received thanks:
Herman Gigglethorpe

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Friday, 24th March 2017, 00:15

Re: Draconian Advice

Just cleared D:2 easily.

-
  Code:
You are on level 2 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 2 of its levels.

You have collected 111 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +1 flail (weapon)
 i - a spear
 q - a dagger of speed
Missiles
 m - 5 stones (quivered)
 u - 17 poisoned needles
Armour
 b - a +0 scale mail (worn)
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 g - a pair of glowing boots
 o - a buckler
Jewellery
 k - a bronze ring
 r - a garnet ring
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of amnesia
 s - a scroll of identify
Potions
 d - a potion of might
 l - a potion of heal wounds
 p - a potion of haste
Comestibles
 f - 5 bread rations
 h - a slice of pizza
 j - 2 beef jerkies
 n - 2 meat rations
 t - a chunk of flesh


   Skills:
 - Level 3.6 Fighting
 + Level 6.0 Maces & Flails
 - Level 3.6 Armour
 - Level 3.6 Shields


Hopefully these code tags work. I won't do a lengthy post for every floor, but I'll try to rationalize. . .er. . .explain my decisions. I picked up several items just in case I may want them later, such as the poison darts and the dagger of speed. I usually save my identify scrolls for potions first. Is this right? After reading several scrolls, I found magic map, noise, and remove curse, but I only had one of each. I don't want to put on rings or other unidentified equipment yet in case they're cursed. Should I wear the buckler instead of my current shield? It has a lower skill requirement to get rid of the penalty.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 720

Joined: Friday, 6th September 2013, 09:17

Post Friday, 24th March 2017, 11:17

Re: Draconian Advice

Put on the boots, they are near-guaranteed to be non-bad, and very likely to be good. You may drop the dagger and spear, these are useless for you. With M&F at 6-8 I'd start putting 33% of exp into dodging.

For this message the author stickyfingers has received thanks:
Herman Gigglethorpe

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Friday, 24th March 2017, 22:13

Re: Draconian Advice

stickyfingers wrote:Put on the boots, they are near-guaranteed to be non-bad, and very likely to be good. You may drop the dagger and spear, these are useless for you. With M&F at 6-8 I'd start putting 33% of exp into dodging.

'
On D:3, I followed stickyfingers's advice. Maces and Flails is now at 66%, and Dodging at 33%. The boots turned out to be +1 without any other enchantment. I found one more identify scroll and a stack of 2 unidentified potions, so I used the scroll to find out that the potions were Flight. I found a suit of plate armor, but decided to wait for advice before deciding to put it on. (I.e. is the AC worth the loss of EV?) There was a Book of Misfortune too, but that's probably useless to me right now.

I had a close call with a centaur. The problem with centaurs is that they're faster than you most of the time, so you can't flee without some kind of teleportation or having stairs right next to you. They also have bows, which hit pretty hard this early in the game. My improvised "tactic", if it deserved to be called that, was to chug a Potion of Haste and bludgeon the centaur to death. There was a corner, which I used a little bit, but the positioning wasn't ideal for line of sight abuse. I lost about half my health in that battle, and I was playing a strong race. I wonder how Felids or some other frail race would beat them. I guess Centaurs are the Crawl equivalent of the "stone giant boulder throwers" of Tales of Maj'Eyal.

Other than that, the floor was uneventful. No altars or bosses or anything like that.


EDIT since I don't want to double post: I went down a few more floors. Fighter is teaching me the value of avoiding enemies and not clearing every floor immediately. Berserker leta you get away with too much in the early game relative to other backgrounds. D:4 was dangerous, since it had Eustachio and Duvessa. (Isn't Duvessa the one that has a partner nearby too?). I managed to beat Pikel later on by stair dancing and killing off his slaves one by one. I put on the plate armor, but it turned out to be cursed -2! I thought that items that were not obviously enchanted were supposed to be safe (i.e. no "runed", "glowing", etc.). Oh well.

No Ecumenical Temple has appeared yet, but there are three altars on the same floor to Okawaru, Yred, and Hepliak (the "ancestor summon" one). Okawaru seems like the obvious choice, but some posts I've read suggest that he's overrated and not as good as he was in previous versions. (The wiki has a lot of outdated articles). Yred can give me undead summons, but I've haven't played much with necromancy. I haven't seen much discussion at all on Hepliak. *Checks file* Oh wait, there's also Xom, but if I wanted to put up with him, I'd use a Chaos Knight.

Current character sheet:

  Code:
Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +1 flail (weapon)
 A - a whip of flaming
Missiles
 i - 4 steel tomahawks
 m - 152 stones (quivered)
 u - 28 poisoned needles
Armour
 b - a +0 scale mail (worn)
 c - a +0 shield (worn)
 g - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 o - a buckler
 p - a -2 plate armour
Jewellery
 k - a bronze ring
 r - a garnet ring
 z - a blackened opal ring
 E - a notched ruby ring
Wands
 s - a wand of slowing
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of amnesia
 l - a scroll of identify
 y - a scroll of teleportation
Potions
 q - 3 potions of heal wounds
 t - 3 potions of flight
 v - a potion of resistance
 x - a potion of lignification
 C - a potion of cure mutation
Books
 w - a book of Misfortune   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         1
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    f - Yara's Violent Unravelling   Hexes/Transmutation           5
Comestibles
 d - 3 fruits
 f - 6 bread rations
 h - 3 slices of pizza
 j - 2 beef jerkies
 n - 4 meat rations


   Skills:
 - Level 3.6 Fighting
 * Level 12.3 Maces & Flails
 - Level 3.6 Armour
 + Level 7.0 Dodging
 - Level 3.6 Shields


You have 8 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (7/15)           
Temple: D:4-7       

Altars:
Hepliaklqana
Okawaru
Xom
Yredelemnul

Annotations:
D:4 Dowan, Duvessa, Eustachio

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5333

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Saturday, 25th March 2017, 01:14

Re: Draconian Advice

If you include the top part of your dump, we can see your stat totals like str, ac, ev, etc. That would be useful for determining if you should use the plate. But since it's pretty early in the game I'll assume you're mostly normal so far:

Yes, a +0 plate is something you should wear. However, a -2 plate probably isn't. What you can do is when you're in a safe area with no monsters in sight, just try equipping the plate. You generally want to wear the armor that gives you the highest AC+EV combination, which I assume a +0 plate would do, instead of a +0 scale mail. I could be wrong, though. If you do end up wearing a plate armor, train armor instead of dodging. The experience you have in dodging isn't a waste though, and will still help you. Assuming you stayed in plate mail all game long, you'd probably do something like take armor skill to 15, then go back to training dodging up to 10-15, and maybe finally take armor to 20. Around this time you've probably won a 3 rune game - don't expect your defenses to reach level 27. You could do that in a 15 rune game, possibly.

I usually will wear-ID rings, but if you want to wait until you get a scroll of remove curse, that's a valid choice also. There aren't that many bad rings aside from teleport, which you can usually put up with for a little while until you find a scroll. Negative protection/evasion/slaying rings hurt, but are fairly rare. Still, if you want to wait, that's fine.

I'd probably switch down to the buckler, although I'm not really sure if that's technically correct. What is min delay for flails? You should be pretty close at 12.6, once you hit min delay you can put more exp into armor/shields/dodging, likely in that order, but it'll depend on what exactly you're using at the time.

For this message the author tasonir has received thanks:
Herman Gigglethorpe

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Saturday, 25th March 2017, 01:25

Re: Draconian Advice

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.4 (tiles) character file.

Aegeus the Basher (Minotaur Fighter)               Turns: 19506, Time: 01:18:52

Health: 106/106    AC: 20    Str: 21    XL:     12   Next: 79%
Magic:  17/17      EV: 11    Int:  5    God:    Okawaru [*****.]
Gold:   892        SH:  0    Dex: 15    Spells: 0 memorised, 11 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis +    L - +3 great mace (crush)
rCold  . . .      Gourm    +    G - +2 plate armour {rPois}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    (helmet restricted)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Harm     .    c - +0 pair of gloves
MR     .....                    g - +1 pair of boots
Stlth  ..........               y - amulet of the gourmand
                                k - +6 ring of slaying
                                Q - ring of see invisible

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are very full.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 14 of its levels.

You have collected 892 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +1 flail
 D - an uncursed blowgun
 L - a +3 great mace of crushing (weapon)
Missiles
 i - 4 steel tomahawks
 m - 393 stones (quivered)
 u - 49 poisoned needles
Armour
 b - a plate armour
 c - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 g - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 G - a +2 plate armour of poison resistance (worn)
 O - a +1 chain mail
Jewellery
 k - a +6 ring of slaying (right hand)
 r - a +3 ring of strength
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 y - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 z - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 E - an uncursed ring of magical power
 H - the ring "Rasig" {Ice rPois Str+7 Int-2 Stlth+}
   (You took it off a centaur on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   
   It enhances your ice magic.
   It affects your strength (+7).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 Q - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
 U - a peridot ring
Wands
 o - a wand of flame
 s - a wand of slowing {zapped: 2}
 K - a wand of iceblast {recharged}
 M - a wand of digging
Scrolls
 e - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 p - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 B - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 I - 2 scrolls of fog
 N - 3 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 l - 3 potions of might
 q - 2 potions of heal wounds
 t - 3 potions of flight
 x - 2 potions of lignification
 C - a potion of cure mutation
 J - 5 potions of curing
 S - a fizzy clear potion
 T - a potion of invisibility
 V - an emerald potion
 X - 2 potions of haste
Books
 w - a book of Misfortune   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         1
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    f - Yara's Violent Unravelling   Hexes/Transmutation           5
 F - a book of Debilitation   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
    f - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
 P - a book of Frost   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Freeze                       Ice                           1
    b - Throw Frost                  Conjuration/Ice               2
    c - Ozocubu's Armour             Charms/Ice                    3
    d - Throw Icicle                 Conjuration/Ice               4
    e - Summon Ice Beast             Ice/Summoning                 4
 R - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    b - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    c - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    d - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
Comestibles
 d - 15 fruits
 f - 9 bread rations
 h - 11 slices of pizza
 j - 4 beef jerkies
 n - 3 meat rations
 W - a royal jelly


   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 14.1 Maces & Flails
 - Level 6.0 Throwing
 - Level 10.0 Armour
 - Level 8.1 Dodging
   Level 3.6 Shields
 - Level 6.2 Invocations
 * Level 8.3 Evocations


You have 11 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (1/6) D:8
    Orc (0/2) D:10         Vaults (0/5) D:13       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Makhleb
Okawaru
Ru
Trog
Uskayaw
Xom
Yredelemnul
The Shining One

Annotations:
D:4 Eustachio


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

Your headbutt misses the bullfrog skeleton.
The bullfrog skeleton is severely damaged.
The bullfrog skeleton closely misses you.
You furiously retaliate! You headbutt the bullfrog skeleton!
You destroy the bullfrog skeleton!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
Move the cursor to view the level map, or type ? for a list of commands.
Returning to the game...
Things that are here:
a ring mail; a whip; a dagger
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
You remove your ring of see invisible.
Q - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
You climb downwards. Welcome to the Lair of Beasts!
Found 19 gold pieces.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Saving game... please wait.

           #
          .#
#########.#
.......@..#
..........#
.............
.......$.......
...............
...########....
#..        ....
##          ...


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  The ghost of Minotaur in a China Shop IX the Basher, a journeyman MiBe of Trog (D:13)
  A vault guard (D:13)
  A hydra (D:8)
  The ghost of Whoa Talking Gargoyles the Geomancer, a journeyman GrEE of Qazlal (D:10)
  Urug (D:12)
  Nergalle (D:12)
  An unseen horror (D:10)
  4 hill giants
  A wizard (D:13)
  Pikel (D:6)
  A wolf spider (D:13)
  Joseph (D:8)
  3 centaur skeletons
  3 gargoyles
  A komodo dragon (D:12)
  A kobold demonologist (D:11)
  2 trolls
  2 hornets
  2 dream sheep (D:8)
  4 hippogriffs
  3 shadows
  A vampire (D:13)
  2 wraiths
  9 yaks
  2 wyverns (D:12)
  A steam dragon (D:12)
  4 hungry ghosts
  2 vampire mosquitoes (D:12)
  A mottled dragon (D:11)
  A water moccasin (D:9)
  Duvessa (D:4)
  3 slaves (D:5)
  4 phantoms
  7 ice beasts
  4 orc warriors
  6 ogres
  5 sky beasts
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  7 centaurs
  8 big kobolds
  13 bullfrogs
  A wyvern skeleton (D:13)
  Dowan (D:4)
  3 scorpions
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:4)
  13 killer bees
  5 howler monkeys
  8 wights
  4 crimson imps
  2 quasits (D:6)
  10 hounds
  2 bullfrog zombies
  6 orc priests
  3 centaur zombies
  A gnoll shaman (D:4)
  5 jellies
  12 orc wizards
  7 bullfrog skeletons
  7 iguanas
  7 worker ants
  3 hound zombies (D:9)
  2 hound skeletons
  7 gnolls
  10 adders
  2 oozes
  2 worms (D:3)
  4 dart slugs
  7 leopard geckos
  61 orcs
  A ball python (D:4)
  6 giant cockroaches
  8 goblins
  9 hobgoblins
  13 jackals
  33 kobolds
  4 quokkas
  6 bats
  4 frilled lizards
  2 gnoll zombies (D:6)
  A leopard gecko zombie (D:7)
  A quokka skeleton (D:8)
  7 rats
409 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A slave (D:6)
  A scorpion (D:6)
  A worker ant (D:6)
  A shadow imp (D:11)
4 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 413 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Aegeus the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   123 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Maces & Flails
   228 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 26/26 MP: 1/1
   465 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Maces & Flails
   504 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 2/2
  1760 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Maces & Flails
  2081 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 39/39 MP: 3/3
  2648 | D:2      | Reached skill level 6 in Maces & Flails
  2844 | D:3      | Noticed a centaur
  2858 | D:3      | Killed a centaur
  2858 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging
  2858 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 18/45 MP: 4/4
  4127 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Maces & Flails
  4282 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 50/51 MP: 5/5
  4474 | D:4      | Noticed an ice beast
  4752 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  4767 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4771 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Maces & Flails
  4776 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 45/57 MP: 6/6
  5379 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Maces & Flails
  5592 | D:4      | Noticed Dowan
  5593 | D:4      | Noticed Duvessa
  5687 | D:6      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  6248 | D:6      | Noticed Pikel
  6326 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 61/64 MP: 7/7
  6430 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Maces & Flails
  6430 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  6895 | D:6      | Killed Pikel
  6895 | D:6      | Reached skill level 11 in Maces & Flails
  7272 | D:6      | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
  7273 | D:6      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  7276 | D:6      | Noticed a spectral ugly thing
  7592 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 57/70 MP: 8/8
  7683 | D:6      | Reached skill level 12 in Maces & Flails
  7959 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8400 | D:6      | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  8889 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  9509 | D:7      | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails
  9692 | D:7      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  9792 | D:7      | Reached * piety under Okawaru
  9916 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
 10114 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
 10502 | D:4      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 10911 | D:4      | Killed Duvessa
 11233 | D:7      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 74/77 MP: 10/10
 11349 | D:8      | Killed Joseph
 11349 | D:8      | Reached skill level 14 in Maces & Flails
 11572 | D:8      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 11635 | D:8      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 11637 | D:8      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 11639 | D:8      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 11645 | D:8      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 11674 | D:8      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
 11720 | D:8      | Reached ** piety under Okawaru
 11753 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 11905 | D:8      | Noticed a two-headed hydra
 11953 | D:8      | Killed a two-headed hydra
 12519 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 13099 | D:4      | Killed Dowan
 13323 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 13601 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 13652 | D:9      | Reached *** piety under Okawaru
 13716 | D:9      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 13866 | D:9      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 13968 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 14052 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 84/99 MP: 8/11
 14242 | D:10     | Noticed Whoa Talking Gargoyles's ghost (journeyman GrEE)
 14254 | D:10     | Killed Whoa Talking Gargoyles's ghost
 14407 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 14425 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 14557 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 14585 | D:10     | Reached **** piety under Okawaru
 14863 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 14866 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 15132 | D:10     | You fall through a shaft!
 15182 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 15278 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
 15503 | D:11     | Reached ***** piety under Okawaru
 15732 | D:11     | Got a pitted marble ring
 16180 | D:11     | Identified the ring "Rasig" {Ice rPois Str+7 Int-2 Stlth+} (You took it off a centaur on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 16329 | D:11     | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
 16507 | D:12     | Noticed Nergalle
 16524 | D:12     | Killed Nergalle
 16524 | D:12     | Received a gift from Okawaru
 16640 | D:12     | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 16640 | D:12     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 91/106 MP: 14/14
 16707 | D:12     | Noticed Urug
 16901 | D:12     | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
 17004 | D:12     | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 17094 | D:12     | Killed Urug
 17950 | D:13     | Noticed Minotaur in a China Shop IX's ghost (journeyman MiBe)
 17996 | D:13     | Killed Minotaur in a China Shop IX's ghost
 17996 | D:13     | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 18354 | D:13     | Noticed a vault guard
 18359 | D:13     | Killed a vault guard
 18523 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 19002 | D:13     | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
 19505 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 |
---------------+-------------------------------------+-----
Maces & Flails |  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 11 13 14       | 14.1
Dodging        |           1  2  3  4  6  8          |  8.1
Invocations    |                          2     5  6 |  6.2
Fighting       |                            10       | 10.0
Armour         |                             6 10    | 10.0
Throwing       |                                6    |  6.0
Evocations     |                                   8 |  8.3
Shields        |                                     |  3.6

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Flail             |    74 |   120 |   442 |   208 ||   844
       Headbutt          |     5 |    16 |    88 |   109 ||   218
       Great mace        |       |       |       |   324 ||   324
Throw: Stone             |       |       |     8 |     8 ||    16
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     3 |    25 ||    28
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     5 |     7 |     9 ||    27
       Potion            |       |     3 |     1 |     3 ||     7
  Eat: Chunk             |     4 |     8 |    20 |    39 ||    71
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
Armor: Scale mail        |    23 |    52 |    37 |    60 ||   172
       Plate armour      |       |       |   113 |    74 ||   187
       Chain mail        |       |       |       |    72 ||    72
Dodge: Dodged            |    13 |    37 |    83 |   256 ||   389
Block: Shield            |    39 |    54 |   156 |    92 ||   341



Now I've made it to the Lair. I trained Throwing at first because it took me a while to find some decent wands. After that, I went with Evocations. Invocations was there to reduce the Heroism failure rate early on, and later to make Finesse worth the trouble once the piety level stabilizes to the point where I can use it. I dropped the shields altogether when a scroll of acquirement gave me a powerful 2-handed weapon. Okawaru gave me my current plate armor. I rather like Okawaru; Heroism is like a mini-Berserk in practice from what I can tell, without that nasty Slow penalty afterwards. Do resistances stack? (e.g. do two rings give you double the poison resistance?) See invisible comes in handy right now.


("Whoa Talking Gargoyles" was based on one of Sora's worst quotes from Kingdom Hearts 3D, in case you're wondering about the ghost's name. "Minotaur in a China Shop" is the title of a funny browser game.)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5333

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Saturday, 25th March 2017, 01:39

Re: Draconian Advice

Some resistances stack: they'll show this on your character sheet. For example, rFire . . . means it has 3 levels; rPois only has one. Technically, you can be resistant or immune, but immunity only comes from being a gargoyle or statue form, and can't be found on equipment. So the only resistances which stack are rF, rC, rN, and MR. Stealth also stacks but isn't quite a resistance.

+2 rPois plate is a great armor for this point in the game. Eventually you'll hopefully get something with a better resistance (rF is usually the most important, or MR), and maybe enchant it up towards +10 or as close as you can get it. If you don't find anything better eventually enchanting the rPois one isn't a terrible loss either. Your real MVP is that +6 slaying ring though - it's very powerful.

See invis is handy, but most fights don't have anything invisible and then the +3 strength ring would be more useful to you than a ring which isn't doing anything. Switching rings can be done in one turn so it isn't too bad if you need to switch to see invis when something shows up. Or try identifying that unID'ed ring.

Heroism is quite strong, and it's very safe to use since it lacks any downsides. One of the other subtle perks to Okawaru is that his invocations take very little invocation skill to use effectively, so you can probably leave invocations around 6 for the rest of the game. Once finesse is at 1% fail, you don't need any more, and sometimes you can stop before that if you're okay with a 10% fail. Trog takes zero, but 6 is still lower than nearly any other god.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 325

Joined: Tuesday, 13th October 2015, 06:02

Post Sunday, 26th March 2017, 23:26

Re: Draconian Advice

Minotaur Fighter is pretty straight forward.

1. Train currently used weapon to Min-Delay.
This will keep you from dying better than defenses will early game.

2. Train defense skills: Fight/Armour/Dodge.
You can train all three at the same time after the weapon with no real reason not to it.

3. The shield is useful without training to survive the very early game, and before you start training defenses. But, it's easy to
train Fright/Armour/Dodge/Shield at the same time.

4. It's usually good to train invocation to make oka's first skill cast able, then focus back to the weapon if it is not at min-delay.

Other things to note:
a. You should wear that unique ring over the see invis, it will recover on it's own most of the EV you lose to penalties. Switch to see invis as needed. Takes little effort to switch.

b. Ice Blast and Acid wands are nice to use in tough spots, but you should have more than enough Evo for them now. Use the attack wands like candy, there tend to be scores of them per game.

c. Throwing needles with a blowgun is a nice way to deal with challenging opponents. Not always needed with a MiFi, but can useful against casters and uniques with the right needle. Poison needles not worth it.

Lair Larrikin

Posts: 15

Joined: Wednesday, 22nd March 2017, 13:49

Post Monday, 27th March 2017, 14:22

Re: Draconian Advice

I currently have a Mottled Draconian Conjurer to test out magic characters, and it's currently plowing through the Lair with the starter Conjurer book. My Ecumenical Temple layout was. . .unusual (several common gods were absent), so I thought I'd try out Hepliak. The Battlemage ancestor is dim, and likes to bash enemies with a quarterstaff instead of casting spells most of the time. Is there a way to tell it to keep its distance, so it would complement the Battlesphere instead of blocking my Magic Darts and Rays? (That said, it has helped a little bit in melee)

I've had trouble finding new Spellbooks. Basically I just have the starter Conjurer book, the starter Fire Elementalist Book, and the starter Skald book. Although Regeneration is nice, I want some new offensive spells before the Conjurer book becomes obsolete. Is there a branch that drops them more frequently?
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 838

Joined: Friday, 2nd October 2015, 04:47

Post Monday, 27th March 2017, 15:34

Re: Draconian Advice

Herman Gigglethorpe wrote:I've had trouble finding new Spellbooks. Basically I just have the starter Conjurer book, the starter Fire Elementalist Book, and the starter Skald book. Although Regeneration is nice, I want some new offensive spells before the Conjurer book becomes obsolete. Is there a branch that drops them more frequently?

Not sure how far down the main Dungeon you've gone already. Exploring down there carefully might yield more books (or possibly shops with books).

Orc will also definitely have some shops. Most are in a frightening vault complex on level 2, and it's just possible there are some on level 1. But Orc is usually a step more dangerous than Lair. (Elf is for even later, if you see it.)

The Book of Conjurations is actually quite strong if you power up the spells. You might be able to rely on it all through Lair, if you're not taking on packs that are too large all at once. If you have hexes up, you can confuse some enemies with Dazzling Spray or land mine a few with Fulminant Prism as they follow you (stay ahead of that blast radius). If you got Battlesphere (requires Charms too), you should be dealing out a fair bit of single target damage at a distance.

Book of Flames can also do a lot in Lair. You can blast hydrae at range with fireball, Sticky Flames on anything that closes to melee and repeat/kite/run until it dies. You can block narrow approaches with Conjure Flames, and braver animals (some yaks, hydrae) will waltz into the flame clouds and even fight inside there if you can melee them a little. If you have hexes, you can set a weak pack animal on fire with Inner Flame, blow it up early (keep it back with Conjure Flame sometimes) and harm those around it. Flame Tongue or Throw Flame at anything in water; this creates steam damage/blocks LOS and fries up electric eels quick.

Look for a melee approach for small trash/cleanup too. A weapon of draining, freezing, or electrocution should help in Lair. Flaming is good too on large weapons, but particularly for finishing hydrae in a pinch.
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More runes! GnWn (11, 0.21), GhMo^Makh (15, 0.17)
And a Yiuf: (1.4.6, 0.20): ImpGl^Oka (3)

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 325

Joined: Tuesday, 13th October 2015, 06:02

Post Wednesday, 29th March 2017, 05:29

Re: Draconian Advice

Well you have two great books. I don't think you should spread your skills out. Those two books can work well in depths. Fireball is probably the best attack spell you have atm. Then sticky flame.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5333

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 29th March 2017, 21:25

Re: Draconian Advice

Conjurer is one of my favorite mage backgrounds precisely because the early spellbook lasts longer than a lot of others - you can easily survive off only that book until level 15, and with some luck/pushing your limits, maybe even to 20. It gives you enough time to find something else to work towards for the end game. That said if you don't have any level 6+ spell books, work on melee for a little while and you can use that to supplement your magic until you find level 6/7 spells. All characters can benefit from training defenses higher if you're waiting to find better spells as well.

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