If I played HE before, now what?


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Temple Termagant

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Joined: Tuesday, 12th April 2011, 21:00

Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 08:30

If I played HE before, now what?

Old player, not very good, used to play High Elf a lot. (by old here I mean both meanings of old -- last version i used was .16, and I'm age 55.)
It seems to be gone from trunk.
What do I do now to get that type of character?
I'm not into playing as a monster or undead. I want something fairly "normal". At least humanoid, and not with crippling negative traits.
Advice?
blueDave yelled at someone in charge recently, and felt better afterwards

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Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 08:45

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Merfolk, Tengu.
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/papilio.html

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 09:08

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

DE is also very similar to HE.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 09:49

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Human.

Temple Termagant

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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 22:55

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

duvessa wrote:DE is also very similar to HE.

Except for the crippling negative traits?
blueDave yelled at someone in charge recently, and felt better afterwards

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Cimanyd

Temple Termagant

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Post Sunday, 8th January 2017, 22:55

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

stickyfingers wrote:Human.

Doesn't Human lose the magic-oriented advantages of HE?
blueDave yelled at someone in charge recently, and felt better afterwards

you are in a maze of twisty, curvy passages, all different

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 02:23

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

0.19.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 04:21

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

It would help if you defined what you meant by 'type of character' as the traits that made HE HE-like exist elsewhere, but not all in one species.
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bel

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 05:20

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

DE has only one really crippling trait: -20% HP (HE have -10%). For the other differences, either they don't amount to much or DE is better than HE. (except maybe long blade apt)
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Zot Zealot

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 05:37

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

If you want to play a glass cannon with good weapon and spell skills but poor defense, consider Tengu or Merfolk.

If you want to play a warrior that can cast a few spells, consider Hill Orc or Human.

If you want to play a mage that can make a passable attempt at fighting, try Deep Elf or Halfling.

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MainiacJoe

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 05:38

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

bel wrote:DE has only one really crippling trait: -20% HP (HE have -10%). For the other differences, either they don't amount to much or DE is better than HE. (except maybe long blade apt)

Actually, HE always had a much better air aptitude, (Although depending on your feelings about air magic, maybe that doesn't "amount to much") and HE have 2 higher fighting aptitude as well, as well as a higher dex.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 08:51

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Based on what you want: Demi-god, Halfling or Human.

DG trains less skills at a time, can have high INT, and is more robut.
Halflings can use short blades, and slings better than a elf with a bow. no +apt to elemental.
Humans will level fast, and can do any one thing as great as anyone with the right God choice.

If you don't like those you can go Centaur or Merfolk for the fairly normal, humanoid. They are better starters at bow and polearms respectively.

I suppose Humans need a +1 across the board to be interesting again.

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 15:39

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

chequers wrote:If you want to play a glass cannon with good weapon and spell skills but poor defense, consider Tengu or Merfolk.

If you want to play a warrior that can cast a few spells, consider Hill Orc or Human.

If you want to play a mage that can make a passable attempt at fighting, try Deep Elf or Halfling.


Except that this is wrong. Halflings are terrible as mages now so that is just flat out wrong it doesn't even require explaining maybe you meant kobold.

Tengu have worse HP (which is one of the two most important starting traits) AND lose a slot AND have trouble filling another slot AND they are fucking awful at charms, hexes, translocations and tramutations. Claiming they replace a High Elf is assinine. Merfolk don't have poor defense, they have excellent dodge Apt and normal HP nor are they good "glass cannons" they bad conjurations and are only passable at ice magic conjurations.

Neither of these species replace High Elf they each have VERY large weaknesses. High Elves served as a happy medium between the two, you can play a skald and still be a good conjurer without the seriously crappy drawbacks of Tengu or Deep Elves while also not having the absolutely horrible armor apt of Merfolk. Claiming -10% HP is minor while putting together entire lists of ranking the species from best to worst mostly based on speed and starting HP is so incredibly out of whack I am rather amazed.

The game is meant to have emergent gameplay, that is why there are sometimes somewhat fine gradations between species. Both Merfolk and Tengu have very large negative apts in things High Elves either have a minor -1 or an actual positive score in. Additionaly High Elves have much better stats than either one. If you want to play a skald with heavier armor a High Elf is MUCH better than either a Tengu or a merfolk.

They each have their tradeoffs. High Elves can be a magic enhanced fighter and conjurer at the same time. Tengu suck at being a magic enhanced fighter. Merfolk are poor, although doable, as a conjurer. Tengu are good at armor but suck at being a skald. Merfolk suck at armor but are good at being a skald. High Elf are passable at armor and good at skald and have the high stats to actually leverage heavier armor that neither of the other two species have. The cost of this is that HE are the worst at using pets/necro.

How are people just blithely passing over the gigantic downsides of two of the species that claim, wrongly, replace HE?

As for claiming humans can do some job HE can do? Seriously? Human are meant to be versatile, they can passably do anything, that is the whole frigging point. And how the hell are you putting Human and HO is the same category? The logic is so twisted you could have put every damn species in that category. Every species can be a warrior with a little spellcasting. I have done it with Op.

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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 15:43

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Siegurt wrote:
bel wrote:DE has only one really crippling trait: -20% HP (HE have -10%). For the other differences, either they don't amount to much or DE is better than HE. (except maybe long blade apt)

Actually, HE always had a much better air aptitude, (Although depending on your feelings about air magic, maybe that doesn't "amount to much") and HE have 2 higher fighting aptitude as well, as well as a higher dex.


Those aren't important. They are the same! Don't get it they are all just ELVES!

Not just higher dex MUCH higher dex. While DE and HE start at same dex, HE will have 4-5 more dex from leveling. A High elf winds up with as superior of a gap in dex vs a Deep elf as a DE does to a troll. To a troll ....

But they are all you know, just the same.

bel

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 16:03

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Siegurt wrote:
bel wrote:DE has only one really crippling trait: -20% HP (HE have -10%). For the other differences, either they don't amount to much or DE is better than HE. (except maybe long blade apt)

Actually, HE always had a much better air aptitude, (Although depending on your feelings about air magic, maybe that doesn't "amount to much") and HE have 2 higher fighting aptitude as well, as well as a higher dex.

Yes, you're correct that I think DE air aptitude doesn't mean much because DE has high int, high MP and the air aptitude is good enough. DEAE is recommended after all.
You're correct that I missed stating the fighting aptitude, but in my view, it is mostly covered under the crippling trait of low hp.

severen wrote:Those aren't important. They are the same! Don't get it they are all just ELVES!

Not just higher dex MUCH higher dex. While DE and HE start at same dex, HE will have 4-5 more dex from leveling. A High elf winds up with as superior of a gap in dex vs a Deep elf as a DE does to a troll. To a troll ....

But they are all you know, just the same.

I did not say they're the same, just "about the same". 50% chance of one dex instead of one int isn't of much importance. You can take dex on level ups to mitigate the difference. There's a dex stepdown over 18 anyway, so super high dex isn't of much use. DE have "good enough" starting dex (same as HE). DE have better dodging apt than HE, btw.

Trolls are large and start with a 5 less dex than DE. It's misleading to compare situations at lvl 1 and lvl 27.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 17:00

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

I think human or demigod would be the closest to HE.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 17:58

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

Devs should differentiated this race instead of removed. It has a lot of fans. Instead they taunt us with meme frogs from 4chan.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th January 2017, 18:01

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

severen wrote:Tengu have worse HP

They also have neutral XP apt which makes them level faster and makes the HP difference much less pronounced, and an EV bonus for even better durability.

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gammafunk

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Post Tuesday, 10th January 2017, 10:25

Re: If I played HE before, now what?

If you ask for something similar to HE people will suggest species that play more or less the same. Obviously some traits are different, these are different species after all. But do these particular traits are more important than the gameplay?

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