CiP: HOFi ^ Usk

Tuesday, 13th December 2016, 01:27 by bel

I haven't played Crawl in a while, so thought I'll give the latest trunk a try. This is my current character:

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-270-g8e735b6 (console) character file. bel2 the Severer (Hill Orc Fighter) Turns: 15491, Time: 01:58:09 Health: 111/111 AC: 34 Str: 20 XL: 13 Next: 2% Magic: 23/23 EV: 5 Int: 8 God: Uskayaw [*.....] Gold: 1071 SH: 14 Dex: 14 Spells: 12/12 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . a - +6 broad axe (venom) rCold + . . Gourm . f - +15 Maxwell's patent armour {-Cast -Tele rElec MR+ rCorr} rNeg . . . Faith . c - +0 shield rPois . Spirit . e - +0 helmet rElec + Reflect + k - +1 cloak rCorr + Harm . o - +0 pair of gloves MR +.... NoTele + (no boots) Stlth .......... NoCast + D - +5 amulet of reflection s - ring of ice J - ring of protection from fire @: no status effects A: no striking features a: Stomp, Renounce Religion You are on level 12 of the Dungeon. You worship Uskayaw. Uskayaw is pleased with you. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 15 of its levels. You have also visited: Ice Cave. You have collected 1071 gold pieces. Inventory: Hand Weapons a - a +6 broad axe of venom (weapon) l - an arbalest R - an uncursed blowgun S - a +1 morningstar Missiles d - 7 curare-tipped needles u - 4 javelins of returning P - 60 bolts X - 2 throwing nets (quivered) Y - 16 poisoned needles Armour c - a +0 shield (worn) e - a +0 helmet (worn) f - the +15 Maxwell's patent armour (worn) {-Cast -Tele rElec MR+ rCorr} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) It insulates you from electricity. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. It prevents spellcasting. It prevents most forms of teleportation. It protects you from acid and corrosion. k - a +1 cloak (worn) o - a +0 pair of gloves (worn) Jewellery s - a ring of ice (right hand) D - a +5 amulet of reflection (around neck) J - a ring of protection from fire (left hand) Wands b - a wand of digging (?/24) {zapped: 2} p - a wand of random effects (?/48) {zapped: 12} C - a wand of lightning (5/15) H - a wand of lightning (11/15) I - a wand of iceblast (?/15) K - a wand of paralysis (10/24) Scrolls i - a scroll labeled IXZONO MUCOS j - a scroll labeled VAITITRI PUFU m - 2 scrolls of blinking n - 5 scrolls of teleportation v - 2 scrolls of magic mapping w - 4 scrolls of fear A - 4 scrolls of remove curse B - 2 scrolls of identify F - 3 scrolls of recharging G - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon L - a scroll labeled RYUPEUJ NOUHU T - a scroll of fog Z - a scroll labeled TEF JYDURPH Potions g - 4 potions of lignification h - 6 potions of curing q - a potion of magic x - 2 potions of cancellation z - a potion of agility E - a potion of brilliance N - 2 potions of resistance O - a potion of haste Q - 2 potions of might U - a potion of heal wounds V - a potion of ambrosia W - a potion of flight Comestibles r - 3 meat rations t - 2 beef jerkies Skills: + Level 9.0 Fighting + Level 16.7 Axes + Level 9.2 Armour - Level 1.9 Dodging - Level 3.2 Shields + Level 13.7 Invocations - Level 6.4 Evocations You have 12 spell levels left. You don't know any spells. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (12/15) Temple (1/1) D:7 Lair (0/6) D:9 Orc (2/2) D:12 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Gozag Hepliaklqana Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Qazlal Ru Sif Muna Trog Uskayaw Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Shops: D:4 } Orc:1 ( Annotations: D:5 1 runed door, exclusion: downstairs D:9 Erica D:10 Gastronok Orc:2 Rupert Message History Items here: ! ) /// ? [[[ | Drop what? 51/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You see here a manual of Ice Magic. You drop a manual of Ice Magic. You see here a manual of Ice Magic. You drop a manual of Ice Magic. q - a potion of magic Things that are here: a +0 broad axe; a scale mail u - 4 javelins of returning (gained 1) Done exploring. (D) Dungeon (T) Temple (L) Lair (O) Orcish Mines (E) Elven Halls Where to? (Enter - Orc:1 @ (x,y), ? - help) You see here a hand axe. There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here. You climb upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon! There is a staircase to the Orcish Mines here. There is an open door here. Unknown command. Unknown command. Unknown command. ##..##.....### #.........# #..#........####..###....# # ###............#...# #..... ## ###.......#####.....####..#.. .####....##..## ###.........### #.#...#####..# #..#####....# #.....# #### ### ############. #....## #######8###8###8###.##. #.....### #§≈≈.#...#...#...#...#. .##.....###≈§..#................. .####.....#≈>..'@................ .## ####..#§≈..#................# #.# ##.#≈≈≈.#...#...#...#...## #.## ##.#######.###8###8###8## ##.## ##..# ###### ### ### ### #..###..## #...### ##.##...# ##....# #.....## ##..## ##....## #..## ##..#...### ##.## ##..####...###..# There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures Erolcha (D:12) Sonja (D:11) Urug (Orc:1) A skeletal warrior (D:10) 4 hill giants Pikel (D:8) A cyclops (Orc:1) A necromancer (IceCv) An ugly thing (D:11) Maurice (D:12) 2 centaur skeletons An ice statue (IceCv) 2 gargoyles (D:12) 10 freezing wraiths (IceCv) 3 trolls 3 meliai (D:10) A two-headed ogre (D:10) A hippogriff (D:12) 3 shadows 18 yaks A basilisk (D:12) A death yak simulacrum (IceCv) 2 wargs (D:9) An acid dragon (D:11) A black bear (D:10) 12 orc warriors 17 ice beasts 8 ogres 2 alligator simulacra (IceCv) A sky beast (D:9) 2 necrophages 3 phantoms 2 centaurs A big kobold (D:7) 5 bullfrogs A gnoll sergeant (Orc:1) A wyvern zombie (D:12) 5 scorpions 4 killer bees (D:10) A wight (D:5) 3 howler monkeys 4 crimson imps A centaur zombie (D:6) A bullfrog zombie (D:8) 4 draconian simulacra (IceCv) A quasit (D:9) 3 bullfrog skeletons 4 jellies 6 hounds 12 orc wizards 12 orc priests 2 iguanas (D:10) 6 worker ants 4 troll simulacra (IceCv) 4 spriggan simulacra (IceCv) A wolf simulacrum (IceCv) A centaur simulacrum (IceCv) A worker ant zombie (D:7) 10 gnolls 4 ogre simulacra (IceCv) 12 adders A howler monkey skeleton (D:5) 3 naga simulacra (IceCv) 12 white imps (IceCv) 2 oozes 2 adder skeletons 2 worms A dart slug (D:1) 6 leopard geckos 51 orcs 7 giant cockroaches 5 goblins 8 hobgoblins 3 jackals 5 quokkas A ball python (D:4) 3 bats 11 frilled lizards 8 kobolds 2 leopard gecko skeletons A quokka skeleton (D:7) 2 rats 360 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) 2 orc warriors (Orc:2) An orc (Orc:2) 3 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A bullfrog (D:8) A crimson imp (D:8) An orc priest (D:8) 3 orcs (D:8) 6 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 369 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------+----------+------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | bel2 the Hill Orc Fighter began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 1/1 26 | D:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Axes 166 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/26 MP: 2/2 641 | D:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Axes 693 | D:3 | Noticed a scorpion 838 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 3/3 1110 | D:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Axes 1461 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 38/39 MP: 4/4 1599 | D:3 | Reached skill level 6 in Axes 1649 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 22/45 MP: 5/5 2071 | D:3 | Reached skill level 7 in Axes 2415 | D:4 | Reached skill level 8 in Axes 2415 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 44/51 MP: 6/6 2555 | D:4 | Reached skill level 9 in Axes 2562 | D:4 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 2882 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 40/57 MP: 7/7 2942 | D:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Axes 2998 | D:4 | Found Adiufoz's Gadget Boutique. 3091 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3326 | D:4 | Reached skill level 11 in Axes 3858 | D:5 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 3858 | D:5 | Found a runed door. 3858 | D:5 | Noticed an angel 4246 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations 4246 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 35/66 MP: 8/8 5011 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 5820 | D:7 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 5832 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5920 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Uskayaw the Reveler 6069 | D:7 | Reached * piety under Uskayaw 6135 | D:7 | Reached ** piety under Uskayaw 6145 | D:7 | Reached *** piety under Uskayaw 6363 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 6502 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 71/75 MP: 11/11 6755 | D:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Dodging 7044 | D:8 | Noticed Pikel 7085 | D:8 | Killed Pikel 7085 | D:8 | Reached skill level 12 in Axes 7486 | D:9 | Noticed Erica 7502 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 7584 | D:9 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations 7769 | D:9 | Reached **** piety under Uskayaw 7776 | D:9 | Noticed a troll 7790 | D:9 | Killed a troll 7790 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations 7862 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 79/84 MP: 14/14 7869 | D:9 | Reached ***** piety under Uskayaw 8377 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 8439 | D:10 | Noticed Gastronok 8766 | D:11 | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations 8808 | D:11 | Noticed Sonja 9408 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 9585 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 9585 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 73/91 MP: 20/20 9815 | D:11 | Killed Sonja 10216 | D:11 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 10228 | D:11 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 10229 | D:11 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 10231 | D:11 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 10288 | D:10 | Killed a skeletal warrior 10500 | D:11 | Reached skill level 13 in Axes 10898 | D:12 | Noticed a hill giant 10926 | D:11 | Noticed a skeletal warrior 11077 | D:12 | Noticed Maurice 11269 | D:11 | Noticed a hill giant 11276 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 11394 | D:12 | Reached skill level 14 in Axes 11521 | D:12 | Noticed Erolcha 12237 | D:12 | Noticed a purple ugly thing 12274 | D:11 | Killed a purple ugly thing 12274 | D:11 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 12280 | D:11 | Killed a hill giant 12280 | D:11 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 57/101 MP: 21/21 12662 | D:12 | Killed Erolcha 12676 | D:12 | Reached skill level 15 in Axes 12774 | D:12 | Killed Maurice 12809 | D:12 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 13367 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 13419 | Orc:1 | Found a frozen archway. 13470 | Orc:1 | Reached skill level 16 in Axes 13547 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 14175 | IceCv | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 15039 | Orc:1 | Found Qeuckitos's Antique Weapon Shoppe. 15176 | Orc:1 | You fall through a shaft! 15176 | Orc:2 | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines 15176 | Orc:2 | Noticed an orc high priest 15176 | Orc:2 | Noticed Rupert 15261 | Orc:1 | Noticed Urug 15343 | Orc:1 | Killed Urug 15343 | Orc:1 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 104/111 MP: 23/23 Skill XL: | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 | ---------------+-------------------------------------+----- Axes | 3 4 5 6 8 9 11 12 14 16 | 16.7 Fighting | 4 5 6 8 9 | 9.0 Evocations | 1 3 5 6 | 6.4 Armour | 5 7 8 9 | 9.2 Dodging | 1 | 1.9 Invocations | 6 12 13 | 13.7 Shields | | 3.2 Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: War axe | 107 | 151 | 457 | 353 | || 1068 Broad axe | | | | 541 | || 541 Evoke: Wand | | | 5 | 14 | || 19 Use: Scroll | | 7 | 15 | 11 | || 33 Potion | | | | 3 | || 3 Stab: Distracted | 1 | | | | || 1 Paralysed | | | 7 | 87 | || 94 Eat: Chunk | 2 | 4 | 17 | 16 | || 39 Meat ration | | | | 2 | || 2 Armor: Scale mail | 53 | 70 | 21 | | || 144 Ring mail | | | 18 | | || 18 Plate armour | | | 112 | 424 | || 536 Dodge: Dodged | 30 | 34 | 50 | 119 | || 233 Block: Shield | 55 | 54 | 221 | 522 | || 852 Reflection | | | 7 | 25 | || 32

Questions:
1. I vaguely recall somewhere that axe users are typically better off with 2-handers. But I have a nice +6 broad axe at the moment. Should I stick with it and start training shields, or should I hope for something better? I also have a large shield lying around somewhere.
2. Is there some sort of good/bad synergy with Usk and shields? Using some handwaving reasoning, I can stay in the big fight longer with a shield, so can use Usk's abilities a bit more.
3. For ranged, should I concentrate on Evo, or should I train xbows or something?
4. I have a guardian spirit amulet somewhere. Should I switch the reflection amulet with a guardian spirit one?
5. How high should I aim Invo to be?

My current preferences are: stay with broad axe/shield, train Evo and shields and use reflection.

Tuesday, 13th December 2016, 04:20 by VeryAngryFelid

I think you will be better without shield, it slows down your attacks by a lot and kills EV. Then guardian spirit will be better indeed. I would go for xbows, you don't seem to have any rods.

Tuesday, 13th December 2016, 08:37 by papilio

0. Ditch that armour. It's an efficient death trap, except or Formicids.

1. I usually prefer broad axe+shield, but your shield skill is too low. Put skills more on Shield.

2. Usk has typically no good or bad synergy with shields, but has *bad* synergy with heavy armours (except shadow dragon scales).
Usk greatly synergies with stealth, and stabbing.
Vine Stalker + Axe with Assassin's Boots + Shadow dragon scales + Shield + Stealth + Uskayaw is one of most OP combos in this game.

3. Forget Evo and XBow, Throwing is enough.

4. DItch that crappy guardian spirit. Uskayaw's ability costs MP and you CANNOT freely decide the time to use.

5. Uskayaw strongly relies with high Invo. But I think 18 is enough for 3 rune games.

Tuesday, 13th December 2016, 12:00 by stickyfingers

1. Yes, 2-handed axes are better, especially under Usk. If there is any battleaxe with a decent brand then use it. Otherwise I'd still not train shields when your axe is venom-branded, not yet at min delay and your shield is plain. Don't move on to a large shield unless it's a great randart or you're very far into the game.
2. Usk wants you to do damage. 2-handers do more of that. Axes even more so.
3. Minimal investment in evo, like your current one, is enough. Unskilled arbalest can be used to soften your enemies from a distance, but it's the axe that you should depend on WRT dealing damage.
4. They are about the same in usefulness, gspirit is somewhat better, but no need to stress it that much.
5. About 16 to have grand finale usable at very high piety and 20 to relax the piety requirements. Depends on how much you want to use it. Also high invo increases the desirability of guardian spirit. This isn't your top priority however, train more axes (min delay is your first target skill-wise), fighting, armour and dodging before.

Obviously, don't plan your game on finding rare fixedarts. Orcs should use heavy armour and disregard stealth outside of some niche situations. And if guardian spirit limits your use of an ability, then it means you are already at too low of health. You don't even have evokable invis/blink, and Usk's abilities are rather offensive in nature (confuse row is somewhat mixed, but in no way it's an emergency tool), so shouldn't be used instead of bailing out. And indeed, Maxwell is questionable. It would be better to use a different armour if you have a decent one.

Tuesday, 13th December 2016, 13:58 by VeryAngryFelid

papilio wrote:0. Ditch that armour. It's an efficient death trap, except or Formicids.

1. I usually prefer broad axe+shield, but your shield skill is too low. Put skills more on Shield.

2. Usk has typically no good or bad synergy with shields, but has *bad* synergy with heavy armours (except shadow dragon scales).
Usk greatly synergies with stealth, and stabbing.
Vine Stalker + Axe with Assassin's Boots + Shadow dragon scales + Shield + Stealth + Uskayaw is one of most OP combos in this game.

3. Forget Evo and XBow, Throwing is enough.

4. DItch that crappy guardian spirit. Uskayaw's ability costs MP and you CANNOT freely decide the time to use.

5. Uskayaw strongly relies with high Invo. But I think 18 is enough for 3 rune games.

1. It's ok armour at this point unless player is new and cannot estimate when it's time to run away. AC 34 before Lair.

2. Not really. Nothing prevents you from training stealth and stabbing those paralyzed monsters in plate armour. (I won Mi of Usk in heavy armour stabbing them with axe).

3. We don't know if there is Shoals in the game. I had games where I had 10 javelins in the whole game. XBows or Bows is more safe skill to pick.

4. It is equivalent of Robust 2 at the moment. If you got to low MP without vampiric weapon, it means you must run away, not evoke some fancy ability with 40% chance to fail.

5. People can change equipment. I wouldn't wear the body armour on rune levels and guardian spirit with 270+ HP HO when a better amulet is available

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 00:04 by papilio

VeryAngryFelid wrote:1. It's ok armour at this point unless player is new and cannot estimate when it's time to run away. AC 34 before Lair.

2. Not really. Nothing prevents you from training stealth and stabbing those paralyzed monsters in plate armour. (I won Mi of Usk in heavy armour stabbing them with axe).

3. We don't know if there is Shoals in the game. I had games where I had 10 javelins in the whole game. XBows or Bows is more safe skill to pick.

4. It is equivalent of Robust 2 at the moment. If you got to low MP without vampiric weapon, it means you must run away, not evoke some fancy ability with 40% chance to fail.

5. People can change equipment. I wouldn't wear the body armour on rune levels and guardian spirit with 270+ HP HO when a better amulet is available

1. AC 34 would be not enough to compensate -Tele in some situations like you fall through L:1->L:3 shaft and immediately get surrounded by pack of death yaks + dream sheeps.

2. Heavy armours significantly cut off your stealth, so paralyzed monsters would wake up earlier before you try to hit them.
Yes, Mi+Usk combo has little problem to win, but it's just because Mi is already OP and Usk is already powerful.
Wearing plate armours definitely does not "have good synergies" with Uskayaw. Mi+Usk+gold dragon scales maybe strong, but VS+Usk+shadow dragon scales could be more OP.

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 02:18 by bel

Thanks for the replies. My thoughts:

1. I don't think I've ever played with Maxwell's patent armour but I don't think it is a death trap. +15 plate with useful resists is a pretty good deal. I can still haste, which is the most important difference with formicids.
2. I found a manual of Evo and ended up focusing on that. I have a rod of clouds somewhere and a few elemental evokers, so I think I'm fine.
3. I found a battleaxe of elec, so probably will be going one two-handed. Venom is not that great later on.
4. I am staying in heavy armour, but trained a bit of stealth to help with paralysis-stabs. Being in heavy armour allows me to axe lots of opponents at once, which pleases Usk. Sure, there are other ways to play, but the current way seems fine.

(edit: fixed typo)

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 03:00 by VeryAngryFelid

papilio wrote:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:1. AC 34 would be not enough to compensate -Tele in some situations like you fall through L:1->L:3 shaft and immediately get surrounded by pack of death yaks + dream sheeps.

2. Heavy armours significantly cut off your stealth, so paralyzed monsters would wake up earlier before you try to hit them.
Yes, Mi+Usk combo has little problem to win, but it's just because Mi is already OP and Usk is already powerful.
Wearing plate armours definitely does not "have good synergies" with Uskayaw. Mi+Usk+gold dragon scales maybe strong, but VS+Usk+shadow dragon scales could be more OP.

1. This is less likely than dying to the same monsters because you had 15 less AC

2. Paralyzed monsters cannot wake up from failed stealth checks as far as I know, it is not en. hibernation. At least they don't wake up from being hit several times with an axe.
No arguments about shadow dragon armour, I am not suggesting to use the Maxwell all game but currently it increases odds of winning IMHO.

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 03:03 by VeryAngryFelid

bel wrote:Thanks for the replies. My thoughts:

1. I don't think I've ever played with Maxwell's patent armour but I don't think it is a death trap. +15 plate with useful resists is a pretty good deal. I can still haste, which is the most important difference with formicids.

1. It is a death trap but very unlikely at current level. Don't use the armour in Elven Halls, for example. I am speaking with experience here

Vaults can be deadly too with all those vault warden and ironband convokers though I haven't died there with Maxwell yet

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 10:00 by stickyfingers

I'd actually be glad to have Maxwell in Elf:$, as a random teleport into either the vault can spell trouble, and it uses much of the level, so it can be hard to get out with a tele scroll. That would also apply to Elf:2 and HoB if not for the possibility of a shaft into Elf:3, as that would be terrible.

bel wrote:3. I found a battleaxe of elec, so probably will be going one handed. Venom is not that great later on.

I really hope this is just a mistake and you meant two-handed.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:2. Paralyzed monsters cannot wake up from failed stealth checks as far as I know, it is not en. hibernation. At least they don't wake up from being hit several times with an axe.

I'm pretty sure he meant increased damage from axe-stabs, not the stealth checks. Not worth it IMO.

Wednesday, 14th December 2016, 13:52 by VeryAngryFelid

In case it wasn't clear I did lose a character in Maxwell's on Elf 3. HO even.

CiP: HOFi ^ Usk

CiP: HOFi ^ Usk

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