The good thing about splatting transmuters...

[Sprucery]

... is that they leave wimpy ghosts.

I only have Tm left of backgrounds and somehow I really struggle with them. I splatted a TrTm of Makh with 2 runes on D:15, then a NaTm of Nem (who killed the ghost of the TrTm) on Spider:4, now a CeTm of Hep with one rune on Spider:1.
And I used to think that Spider is a breeze compared to Snake...

The current one is a MfTm of Oka. Let's see how he dies.

[Rast]

spoiler: You don't have to play them as transmuters after the first few dungeon floors. Pick up a good weapon and some medium or heavy armor, play like a fighter.

[prozacelf]

MfTm is an MfGl that can summon snakes if you choose to play it that way. And horns until you find some headgear. In fact, Mf and Tr are probably the easiest to get away from the transmuter game plan with.

[Sprucery]

Thanks both of you, but I definitely want to play transmuters as transmuters :)

[prozacelf]

The only Tm I ever won was an MfTm that I actually played as such, so I can't really argue with you here. =)

[stickyfingers]

It's just the few first D floors that are hard with Tm. With UC 10 and reliable spider form it's quite strong, so unless you have terrible casting/unarmed apts or are a Mf that found a halberd on XL1 etc. it's better to stay true.

[Sprucery]

Yeah, all of the ones I splatted were definitely strong enough to go and win, I just didn't play safe enough (fought in the open, didn't get out in time, let myself get surrounded etc.).

[prozacelf]

I think it's objectively one of the hardest backgrounds to play if you really want to stick with the transmuter gimmick. If nothing else it requires a lot of training in at least 3 skills before you're even decent, and you want a bit of ice training too before you get too deep into Lair.

Enchanter also has a lot of multi-skill dependency, but it also has the advantage of 4-5 species that have fantastic apts in stealth, hexes, dodging, short blades, or some combination thereof.

[bel]

Worship Fedhas.

[Sprucery]

Sure, Fedhas is good. But generally I'll take the first viable god I find.

[ZipZipskins]

Sure, Fedhas is good. But generally I'll take the first viable god I find.

#crawlgodstrategy

[removeelyvilon]

You've come this far, but the stale tavern "memes" (they don't deserve that name because they are not funny) don't get you out of trouble this time. Everything you thought you knew about crawl is 100% invalid now.
You are a transmuter now! Time to take a deep breath and start a new life! You need to rediscover everything.

You have to throw all your prejudices overboard and worship Cheibriados! Find the power within! Go on a grand and glorious adventure!

[VeryAngryFelid]

Play Felid, the easiest way to "take a deep breath and start a new life".

[Sprucery]

You have to throw all your prejudices overboard and worship Cheibriados!

I have to say that my list on 'unviable' gods for Tm is Zin, Xom, Chei, Vehumet, Sif, Qaz, and Trog. I'm really bad with Chei and I don't think my first Chei victory will come with Tm.

Play Felid, the easiest way to "take a deep breath and start a new life".

Let's see if it comes to that. I'm playing the species in order (started from Og) so I really hope I win before reaching Fe... :)

[VeryAngryFelid]

Well, Chei is not that bad for Tm:
1) You are not a spellcaster so you don't need to run away to replenish mana.
2) You are a hybrid so boosts to Str/Int/Dex are all useful
3) Base damage for UC depends on Str/Dex for some transmutations so you get even greater benefits from the stat boosts.
I think Tm is the best background for Chei (IIRC crate was saying like AM is the best but I find Tm much easier than AM).

[Sprucery]

OK, I'll give Chei a shot if I find it early. The MfTm of Oka just died.

Went down to D:11, got Ice Cave message. This was bad because I always try to rush for timed portals. I was in the middle of sleeping yaks so I went back up and took another stairway down. Got 2 'very distant' messages and found a pack of killer bees. No problem, I was in a corridor. Fought in Ice Form and got the bees but then something invisible started hitting me hard. Once again I didn't get out immediately but tried to hit it a couple of times before reading teleport. Teleported in view of the Ice Cave which was guarded by two rime drakes. Despite me being in Ice Form I got immediately killed by flash freeze. Back to the drawing board...

Of course I hadn't even activated Heroism.

[Baldu3]

I find the super-ally god (hep) can carry me through most awful early games i draw on wanderers, you might wanna consider trying it.

[gfgf45550]

Use Cheibriados.

DrTm/NaTm of Chei are really great hybrids, you'll have Statue/Dragon form and Tornado before entering the 4th floor of Lair branches, TrTm of Chei in statue form and with an amulet of Harm kills anything with a single blow.

Sinve removal of Haste there is no other choice than Chei. (Or Okawaru, of course. Because of the Finn.)

[Sprucery]

I find the super-ally god (hep) can carry me through most awful early games i draw on wanderers, you might wanna consider trying it.

I had a CeTm of Hep and it was quite ok indeed.

DrTm/NaTm of Chei are really great hybrids, you'll have Statue/Dragon form and Tornado before entering the 4th floor of Lair branches,

Unfortunately Chei does not gift spellbooks.

So I started a MiTm and found no altars until the Temple on D:7 where I have all temple gods available. Now this is quite late to get a god so I should get one that helps me quickly... so Fedhas? Makhleb/Ru/Okawaru/Nemelex should all be good too. But Chei will just get me killed when I forget that I shouldn't move in combat.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.1-4-gb68c3ca (tiles) character file.

Manger the Grappler (Minotaur Transmuter)          Turns: 10015, Time: 00:51:05

Health: 71/71      AC: 12    Str: 21    XL:     9   Next: 38%
Magic:  10/10      EV: 12    Int: 12    God:   
Gold:   82         SH:  0    Dex: 12    Spells: 3 memorised, 1 level left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .      - Unarmed
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    A - +2 ring mail {rC+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    (helmet restricted)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    (no cloak)
rCorr  .          Harm     .    G - +0 pair of gloves
MR     .....                    B - +2 pair of boots
Stlth  +.........               (no amulet)
                                R - +6 ring of strength
                                L - ring of wizardry

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: no special abilities


You are in the Ecumenical Temple.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 8 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary.

You have collected 741 gold pieces.
You have spent 659 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 b - a +0 blowgun
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)
Missiles
 a - 12 arrows
 e - 106 stones
 l - 9 tomahawks
 n - 8 curare-tipped needles
 q - 57 poisoned needles
 r - 7 poisoned tomahawks (quivered)
Armour
 A - a +2 ring mail of cold resistance (worn)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Dungeon)
 B - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
 G - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Dungeon)
Jewellery
 L - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
   (You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)
 R - a +6 ring of strength (right hand)
   (You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)
Wands
 y - a wand of enslavement
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
Scrolls
 f - a scroll of teleportation
 m - 4 scrolls of noise
 s - a scroll labeled WUAPNO LISSODU
 x - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 C - a scroll labeled TOADUU PONY
Potions
 g - a potion of magic
 i - 4 potions of curing
 k - a potion of lignification
 o - a potion of cure mutation
 p - a potion of ambrosia
 u - a potion of heal wounds
 v - 2 potions of agility
 w - 2 potions of brilliance
 z - a potion of mutation
Books
 c - a book of Changes   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Beastly Appendage            Transmutation                 1
    b - Sticks to Snakes             Transmutation                 2
    c - Spider Form                  Transmutation/Poison          3
    d - Ice Form                     Ice/Transmutation             4
    e - Blade Hands                  Transmutation                 5
 h - a book of Misfortune
   (You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Confusing Touch              Hexes                         1
    b - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Petrify                      Transmutation/Earth           4
    e - Metabolic Englaciation       Hexes/Ice                     5
    f - Yara's Violent Unravelling   Hexes/Transmutation           5
Comestibles
 d - 6 bread rations
 j - 3 meat rations
 t - 2 fruits


   Skills:
 + Level 4.3 Fighting
 - Level 3.0 Throwing
 - Level 3.6 Armour
 - Level 3.5 Dodging
 - Level 1.0 Stealth
 + Level 8.9 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 1.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.0 Transmutations
 + Level 2.6 Ice Magic
 - Level 2.0 Poison Magic
 - Level 2.3 Evocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Ice Form              Ice/Tmut       ##......     58%         4    #####..
b - Sticks to Snakes      Tmut           ##......     4%          2    ###....
c - Spider Form           Tmut/Pois      #.........   16%         3    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (7/15)             Temple (1/1) D:7         

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 *   D:5 :%[   D:6 !(


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Casting: Sticks to Snakes
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Save game and exit?

##.### ###.###.### ###.#
 #...###...# #...###...#
 ###..#..### ###..#..###
   ##...##     ##...##
 ###..#..### ###..#..###
 #...###...# #...###...#
##.### ###.###.### ###.#
#..#     #..#..#     #..
..##     ##...##     ##.
.##       #.@.#       ##
..##     ##...##     ##.
#..#     #..#..#     #..
##.#     #.###.#     #.#
 #.### ###.# #.### ###.#
 #...###...# #...###...#
 ###..#..### ###..#..###
   ##...##     ##...##
 ###..#..### ###..#..###


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A centaur zombie (D:7)
  A hippogriff (D:7)
  A water moccasin (D:4)
  A slave (D:5)
  An ogre (D:6)
  3 sky beasts
  An ice beast (D:7)
  A big kobold (D:7)
  A bullfrog (D:7)
  A scorpion (D:6)
  5 crimson imps
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  2 hounds
  5 orc wizards
  4 orc priests
  2 bullfrog skeletons
  2 centaur skeletons
  An iguana (D:4)
  7 worker ants
  A big kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  3 mummies
  A howler monkey zombie (D:5)
  3 gnolls
  10 adders
  A shadow imp (D:5)
  2 oozes
  4 adder skeletons
  2 worms (D:3)
  3 dart slugs
  3 leopard geckos
  17 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  2 giant cockroaches (D:1)
  4 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  5 goblins
  7 hobgoblins
  5 jackals (D:1)
  12 kobolds
  3 quokkas
  9 bats
  4 frilled lizards
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  A hobgoblin zombie (Ossuary)
  2 orc zombies (Ossuary)
  9 rats
158 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Pikel (D:5)
  An ice beast (D:5)
  A crimson imp (D:7)
  A centaur zombie (Ossuary)
  An orc priest (D:7)
  2 jackals (D:4)
  A ball python (D:4)
  A gnoll zombie (Ossuary)
  A goblin zombie (Ossuary)
10 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A bullfrog zombie (D:5)
1 creature vanquished.

Grand Total: 169 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Manger the Minotaur Transmuter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
   316 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 13/23 MP: 3/3
   320 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Sticks to Snakes
   997 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  1141 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/28 MP: 4/4
  1209 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
  1692 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 5/5
  1814 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  2950 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 6/6
  2955 | D:3      | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
  4006 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  4263 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 27/48 MP: 3/7
  4979 | D:4      | Found Tisk's Serpentskin Sales.
  4980 | D:4      | Noticed a water moccasin
  4987 | D:4      | Killed a water moccasin
  4987 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  4987 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 43/57 MP: 3/8
  4994 | D:4      | Bought 8 curare-tipped needles for 57 gold pieces
  4994 | D:4      | Bought 7 poisoned tomahawks for 84 gold pieces
  4994 | D:4      | Bought a +0 blowgun for 30 gold pieces
  5647 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5653 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  5773 | D:5      | Found Uten's Antique Armour Shop.
  5818 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  5833 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  6249 | D:5      | Bought a pair of gloves for 139 gold pieces
  6399 | D:5      | Found Xipyrata's Food Shop.
  6507 | D:5      | Found Pyodoz's Book Shop.
  6736 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  6770 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  6770 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  6770 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
  6770 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 39/63 MP: 1/9
  6999 | D:5      | Found Mozeaj's Antique Armour Shoppe.
  7331 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic
  7411 | D:6      | Found Qike's Antique Weapon Emporium.
  7508 | D:5      | Bought a glowing ring mail for 310 gold pieces
  7983 | D:6      | Found Atip's Distillery.
  7991 | D:6      | Bought a potion of curing for 39 gold pieces
  8275 | D:6      | Learned a level 4 spell: Ice Form
  8480 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
  8480 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  8614 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  8614 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 59/71 MP: 6/10
  9198 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  9213 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 |
---------------+----------------------------+-----
Transmutations |     2        3  4  5       |  5.0
Stealth        |     1                      |  1.0
Unarmed Combat |        4     5     7  8    |  8.9
Throwing       |           1  2           3 |  3.0
Fighting       |           2     3     4    |  4.3
Armour         |                 1  3       |  3.6
Dodging        |                    3       |  3.5
Poison Magic   |                       2    |  2.0
Ice Magic      |                       1  2 |  2.6
Evocations     |                       2    |  2.3
Spellcasting   |                            |  1.3

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    78 |   173 |   252 ||   503
       Headbutt          |    10 |    29 |    60 ||    99
       Kick              |     2 |     3 |       ||     5
       Punch             |       |     3 |     5 ||     8
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |     5 ||     5
Throw: Tomahawk          |     9 |    29 |    13 ||    51
       Stone             |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Cast: Beastly Appendage |     1 |     4 |       ||     5
       Sticks to Snakes  |       |    18 |    31 ||    49
  Use: Scroll            |     5 |    11 |     5 ||    21
       Potion            |       |     2 |       ||     2
 Stab: Distracted        |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     2 |    13 |    11 ||    26
       Beef jerky        |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Pizza             |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Armor: Ring mail         |    14 |    39 |    47 ||   100
       Scale mail        |       |    33 |    37 ||    70
Dodge: Dodged            |    34 |    68 |    93 ||   195



[prozacelf]

You have to throw all your prejudices overboard and worship Cheibriados!

I have to say that my list on 'unviable' gods for Tm is Zin, Xom, Chei, Vehumet, Sif, Qaz, and Trog. I'm really bad with Chei and I don't think my first Chei victory will come with Tm.

Play Felid, the easiest way to "take a deep breath and start a new life".

Let's see if it comes to that. I'm playing the species in order (started from Og) so I really hope I win before reaching Fe...

Chei is actually fantastic for Tm. I'm generally not a fan of Chei, but he's really good with Tm and Gh.

[stickyfingers]

Any god that reduces your options from the start and not give anything substantial in return immediately is by definition worse than the one that doesn't do that. If you feel you need immediate help then go Hep or Gozag. Fed and Oka are very good if you can reliably survive for the next few floors. Don't go Chei on a Tm, or any char without ranged attacks or a really, really strong melee.

[Sprucery]

If you feel you need immediate help then go Hep or Gozag.

Can't go Gozag unfortunately, as I've spent so much gold shopping that I can't pay the joining fee.

[Sprucery]

So I went Fedhas. On D:11 I autoexplored into a nasty vault. A six-headed hydra came around the corner. I figured I can take it out with my mushroom. And I did. But:

  Code:

 14345 | D:11     | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 14352 | D:11     | Noticed a sphinx
 14352 | D:11     | Killed a six-headed hydra
 14353 | D:11     | Paralysed by a sphinx for 7 turns
 14355 | D:11     | Noticed a skeletal warrior
 14358 | D:11     | HP: 9/86 [skeletal warrior/halberd (12)]
 14359 | D:11     | Slain by a sphinx


I should have read teleport the moment the sphinx came into view but the hydra was almost dead and I wanted to finish it... Of course there was also a skeletal warrior that came to poke me with a halberd from behind the sphinx. Paralysed for 7 turns, killed on turn 6.

After that I already splatted a TeTm who was chain-confused by an orc wizard on D:3. Next up is DrTm. I guess I'll be at Felid in no time....

[n1000]

do DgTm instead of chei tm it's the same thing but without chei

also it's even more fun to figure out optimal training on your Tm when you have -1 apts

[VeryAngryFelid]

DgTm still can run away, it's much easier than one of Chei.

[Sprucery]

Well, I'll be at Dg after Dr, Gr, Fo and VS...

[Sprucery]

DrTm picked Uskayaw, turned purple and was killed by Nessos in Lair. Stupid me, died with a scroll of blinking in inventory. And I forgot to breathe dispelling energy at hasted Nessos.

Btw. I think Uskayaw is a challenge god. It helps you when you are strong (i.e. killing things already) but when you are in trouble, it gives you nothing (except Stomp, but it is not much of a panic button).

Now a GrTm, picked Chei on D:2 just for the heck of it. I don't except to survive long...

[stickyfingers]

I'd use weapons on GrTm, you lose the AC while transformed and don't get compensation with HP. Not having to train Trm with -2 apt is a bonus.

[Sprucery]

Well, to me Tm is always unarmed in melee. No matter how cool weapons I find. Gotta stay true to the background :)