Simplify "holy" damage even further


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Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 17:30

Simplify "holy" damage even further

I never understood the weird distinction between monsters that are vulnerable to i. e. cleansing flame but not to weapons of holy wrath. There are very few sources of holy damage in the game already so why make matters more complicated by making holy wrath brand something de facto completely different. I also didn't know that weapons of holy wrath don't actually deal any holy damage for a very, very long time, but I digress.

Anyway, as you are surely aware, holy damage and TSO conduct are in the process of being simplified, so why not make hay while the sun is shining and simplify the holy wrath brand while you are at it, too.

Suggestion: Make everything that is susceptible to actual holy damage also susceptible to holy wrath.

And/or option
: Make the holy wrath brand behave like e. g. fire brand so it actually deals holy damage (but more than fire would, since holy damage only works against a handful of enemies).

Sort of related: Is it true that holy word deals more damage when you worship a good god? If it is, it should either be mentioned somewhere or removed altogether...

Also rename cleansing flame because "flame" indicates it has something to do with fire damage. Or internet trolls.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 22nd November 2016, 19:06

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

Alternative idea: remove it.

There is no gameplay reason to have a player-usable weapon brand that is clearly the worst brand against 90% of the enemies of the game but overwhelmingly the most damaging brand for a couple tiny optional sections of the game. If it needs to exist for TSO flavor, she can just grant a slaying bonus at high piety that is flavored as being holy. Flavor is super-malleable like that.

A monster brand that deals extra damage to a choice at chargen was bad when it was the dragon-slaying brand or the orc-slaying brand, and it's bad when it's the demonspawn-slaying brand or the mummy-slaying brand.

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Spider Stomper

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 13:26

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

KoboldLord wrote:Alternative idea: remove it.

There is no gameplay reason to have a player-usable weapon brand that is clearly the worst brand against 90% of the enemies of the game but overwhelmingly the most damaging brand for a couple tiny optional sections of the game. If it needs to exist for TSO flavor, she can just grant a slaying bonus at high piety that is flavored as being holy. Flavor is super-malleable like that.

A monster brand that deals extra damage to a choice at chargen was bad when it was the dragon-slaying brand or the orc-slaying brand, and it's bad when it's the demonspawn-slaying brand or the mummy-slaying brand.
Or just let 6* TSO worshippers (and possibly angels etc) emulate it, say by doing 150% weapon damage against unholy enemies (i.e. the same as holy wrath given a vorpal brand).

(There might be a case for leaving holy wrath on the sword of jihad, making it an unrand-exclusive brand like dragonslaying before it.)

I really like this idea and am frankly kind of amazed that holy wrath hasn't been cut way earlier.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 13:37

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

Make eudemon blades, trishulas and scourges slightly better while making them brandless and non-brandable.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 16:45

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

removeelyvilon wrote:And/or option[/b]: Make the holy wrath brand behave like e. g. fire brand so it actually deals holy damage (but more than fire would, since holy damage only works against a handful of enemies).


Slight clarification here. Holy wrath brand behaves almost exactly like the fire brand, and the damage applied is just as much "holy" as the fire brand's damage is "firey"

Which is to say the code looks at the brand and determines how much damage it should do, and if any resistances apply. In the case of fire/holy the formulas for the damage done are very similar (holy just does more) and holy does none if creatures aren't evil or undead, and of course there is no "rHoly" so there is no resistance check.
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Post Wednesday, 23rd November 2016, 18:59

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

kuniqs wrote:Make eudemon blades, trishulas and scourges slightly better while making them brandless and non-brandable.

eh, or just leave their stats as is and make them brandable with anything other than pain, draining, or venom. Angels might always have flavorful brands like flaming, vorpal, electrocution, protection, or (rarely) speed; Mennas should totally always have antimagic. Max piety TSO worshippers could convert demon weapons to their blessed counterparts automatically upon wielding.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 29th November 2016, 13:33

Re: Simplify "holy" damage even further

Changing holy wrath to work similarly to cleansing flame would be cool.

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