Spellbinder + Okawaru = Tragedy

[Arrhythmia]

Let me paint you a picture with words:

I am a human fighter, using M&F, worshipping Okawaru. Okawaru, kind god that he is, gifts me Spellbinder at some point, which I happily use. Tragically though, this situation plays out far too commonly:

1. I hit a spellcaster, and they get a miscast
2. It's a summon! A smoke demon fights by my side
3. I hit them again and they get another miscast
4. It's a magical explosion, which hits my demon, and is attributed to me
5. Now I'm under Okawaru penance and I have a hostile demon fighting me.

I have no idea what a solution to this problem would look like, but it is infuriating and I would appreciate it if we could all come together as a team to solve it.

[jwoodward48ss]

Don't have involuntary/unintentional miscasts make allies hostile?

[PowerOfKaishin]

The solution lies with the fact that spellbinder is busted to summon demons and then make them aggro

[CanOfWorms]

you could have just posted

  Code:

spellbinder[4/4]: !lg * cikiller~~Spellbinder 2 -tv

Spoiler: show

  Code:

The orc wizard's magic leaks into the air.
There is a sudden explosion of magical energy!
The explosion engulfs the orc wizard.
The orc wizard is severely wounded.
The explosion engulfs the orc.
You kill the orc!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The explosion engulfs the orc.
You kill the orc!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The explosion engulfs you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
The explosion engulfs your Hell Sentinel.
Your Hell Sentinel is lightly wounded.
You feel very guilty.
"You will pay for your transgression, mortal!"
The orc wizard is severely wounded.
You block the orc wizard's attack. The Hell Sentinel hits you!!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...


[Shard1697]

Don't have involuntary/unintentional miscasts make allies hostile?

Could (presumably)attribute them to the enemy which miscast instead of the player who caused the miscast.

[amaril]

Get rid of okawaru's terrible ally conduct? While we're at it, prevent allies from turning hostile (except on a timer, when that applies).

[Sar]

that's the fun part of Spellbinder, though...

[Quazifuji]

Get rid of okawaru's terrible ally conduct? While we're at it, prevent allies from turning hostile (except on a timer, when that applies).

Yeah, it's really silly that a god who doesn't even provide allies has a penance-inducing conduct involving them. I understand that it's there for flavor reasons, but it's dumb for gameplay purposes and needs to go.

I'd certainly be happy to see ally turning leave too, it's much more annoying than interesting 90% of the time, but at the very least Okawaru's conduct needs to go, and involuntary explosions like Spellbinder need to not be attributed to the player.

[Psieye]

that's the fun part of Spellbinder, though...

I am indeed amused by "the ally you 'summoned' with Spellbinder is then 'hurt by' the Spellbinder". Okawaru's ally conduct, I'm not so amused by. Is there a mechanical balance reason for Okawaru's Views on allies?

[dowan]

It's kind of a weird holdover, Oka used to take piety away whenever allies died, thankfully that was removed. I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.

I've never used spellbinder. Do the miscast effects hurt you too?

[VeryAngryFelid]

Just change Okawaru to give "Sacrifice love" mutation already and refuse Ds as worshipers (I am sure Ds is strong enough to survive the nerf).

[Arrhythmia]

It's kind of a weird holdover, Oka used to take piety away whenever allies died, thankfully that was removed. I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.

I've never used spellbinder. Do the miscast effects hurt you too?

I had 62 AC that game so it was hard to tell. Summoned twisters definitely hurt though...

[Turukano]

Hey, "Okawaru grants you a gift!" is a new message for the topic Famous last words !

[duvessa]

(I am sure Ds is strong enough to survive the nerf).

I don't think Okawaru is.

[VeryAngryFelid]

I don't think Okawaru is.

Really? It's one of the best gods for melee (especially UC) and ranged characters. Also it can make some sense from flavor point of view, Heroism should mean you are a hero, not a summoner who joined Oka for gifts.

[duvessa]

The problem is, most Crawl characters are summoners. There are so many great items that give you allies - wand of enslavement, phial of floods, sack of spiders, box of beasts...
This change would also basically remove Tm^okawaru.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

it's not like Oka is hard to buff tho- imagine the abilities as passives, or better gifts

[pubby]

Have allies turn neutral the first time you strike them and hostile the second time you strike them.

[Quazifuji]

I would guess the reason the ally hurting conduct was left because "Eh why not", after all it's rarely relevant.

Which is a pretty terrible reason to ever leave a mechanic in the game that is as completely gameplay-oriented as DCSS. Really, small rules that are rarely relevant are exactly the kinds of things that shouldn't be in the game because they almost always are just fiddly spoilery mechanics that don't add anything meaningful.

[njvack]

Mod note: I split off a bunch of stuff about god conducts pertaining to Dith and TSO. The root of the OP's experience has enough going on without bringing other deities into the mix.