YAVP (on behalf of mooon) "Ultimate Sacrifice" Felid of Ru

[gammafunk]

The player mooon on the South Korean server CWZ set out to win a 15-rune Felid that made at least one of each sacrifice Ru by worshiping, getting to full piety, abandoning, and reworshiping repeatedly. He says that many players underestimate the power of felids, so he wanted to demonstrate how strong they in fact are.

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<Sequell> Last sacrifices made by mooon: purity, experience, love, essence, health, health, health, essence, eye, drink, purity, essence, courage, purity, skill, stealth, words, hand, evocations, purity, resistance, purity, dodging, purity, purity, purity, arcana, essence, purity


Morgue link

Also wished to give a shoutout to Lasty for making his favorite god:

mooon: plz say thank you to lasty
mooon: your god was the best

I'll leave it to Lasty to comment on the irony of the most devoted Ru worshiper being a felid. Congratulations mooon!

[Lasty]

That's quite an achievement! Congratulations to you, mooon; I'm happy to hear you enjoy Ru so much!

As for felids, it seems like mooon is just trying to remove a felid by the incremental approach.

[BabyRage]

Meh that looks impressive on paper but if you think about it, only sacrifices that matter are evocation and dodging. All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run. If he sacced transmutation and necromancy and still won then I'd be impressed.

[Sprucery]

Meh that looks impressive on paper but if you think about it, only sacrifices that matter are evocation and dodging. All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run. If he sacced transmutation and necromancy and still won then I'd be impressed.

Sure, and the game is won by Lair anyway.

(I'm still impressed.)

[VeryAngryFelid]

Meh that looks impressive on paper but if you think about it, only sacrifices that matter are evocation and dodging. All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run. If he sacced transmutation and necromancy and still won then I'd be impressed.

True, I remember a game where I sacrificed both Dodging and Armour (with statue/hydra form ). It was still hilariously easy (and I died to overconfidence). Still very impressive win because of drinks/words.

[nago]

Meh that looks impressive on paper but if you think about it, only sacrifices that matter are evocation and dodging. All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run. If he sacced transmutation and necromancy and still won then I'd be impressed.

I'd say that resistance is going to be at least annoying as felid, frail is going to suck, losing a paw is very very bad and hexes is significant. Not counting all the times he was without Ru powers due the abandonment of the god.

Fucking impressive win for me.

[Sar]

All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run.

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health, health, health

If I understand this correctly, he essentially played a cat with additional -30% HP penalty. I'd say that's kind of significant.

[BabyRage]

He had frail 1, reduced AC 1, reduced EV 1. Sac health lets you chose between -10% hp, -3 ac and -3 ev.

[gammafunk]

Yeah, was only -10% HP. On the other hand it had only about 165 max HP with 26/12/4 defenses in statue form, which sounds fun! Max str seemed to be 3 for a lot of the run as well.

[VeryAngryFelid]

171 cast of CBlink and 10 potions of cure mutation. Who needs defenses with that?

  Code:

Dis:7 Dispater
Geh:7 Asmodeus; Serpent of Hell
Coc:7 exclusion: 2 ice statues, Antaeus
Tar:7 Ereshkigal

All unique panlords were alive too.

[papilio]

Meh that looks impressive on paper but if you think about it, only sacrifices that matter are evocation and dodging. All others that he made basically don't do anything in a long run. If he sacced transmutation and necromancy and still won then I'd be impressed.

Look harder.

No Stealth/Dodging + Scream 2 - No EV bonus, No stealth. Extremely lethal for felids.
Losing a paw - You can take only one ring for resistance.
Losing an eye - Iron shot's accuracy become more awful.
No Evocations - No Haste wand (which is the unique source for being haste, for now), No Tele/Heal wand.
No Drink/Scroll during severe combat - You cannot use ?tele, ?blink and !healwounds in emergency, you cannot drink !curing when you're confused.
rF-, rC- - Just sucks.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Look harder.

No Stealth/Dodging + Scream 2 - No EV bonus, No stealth. Extremely lethal for felids.
Losing a paw - You can take only one ring for resistance.
Losing an eye - Iron shot's accuracy become more awful.
No Evocations - No Haste wand (which is the unique source for being haste, for now), No Tele/Heal wand.
No Drink/Scroll during severe combat - You cannot use ?tele, ?blink and !healwounds in emergency, you cannot drink !curing when you're confused.
rF-, rC- - Just sucks.

Don't forget to check when the sacrifices were done. The character used Hexes/Dodging almost all game, used devices until 9 runes, got rF-/rC- after 14 runes etc.

[Baldu3]

Definite wow, well played!

[pedritolo]

Meh I'm not impressed. I once won a 15 rune game as a felid without front and back paws and without both eyes. I killed stuff just by biting in random directions and moved about by casting blink.
jk. It was an amazing achievement, congrats!

[kimnosuk]

Why so obsessed to diminish the achievement?

[dpeg]

kimnosuk: This forum is tilted towards negativity, unfortunately.

Don't worry about this, it's a great achievement, and also so much flavour Keep it up!

[VeryAngryFelid]

Why so obsessed to diminish the achievement?

Maybe because some of us won 15 runes felid without OP god like Ru and know how OP CBlink and statue Form are?
It's a great win but it reminds me XP farming except you farm Ru sacrifices mostly. I mean it is not a big deal to sacrifice Dodging, Hexes or devices when you almost won and reached overpower stage a long time ago, it is a bit of gaming the system IMHO. Do it as your first sacrifices

[papilio]

Why so obsessed to diminish the achievement?

Maybe because some of us won 15 runes felid without OP god like Ru and know how OP CBlink and statue Form are?
It's a great win but it reminds me XP farming except you farm Ru sacrifices mostly. I mean it is not a big deal to sacrifice Dodging, Hexes or devices when you almost won and reached overpower stage a long time ago, it is a bit of gaming the system IMHO. Do it as your first sacrifices

I've watched Zot part of this game;

Taking out orbs of fire and ancient liches, with only 170 HP with rF+ (rF- + rF+ ring + !resist),
all movement slowed by statue form (otherwise you'll get instakilled by simultaneous 3d43 fireballs), no scroll+potion in emergency,
no haste wand, no stealth, no spider sacks, no beast boxes, no controlled blink... with greatly reduced accuracy/spellpower of iron shot... A crazy work.


You'd better try to demonstrate yourself.
If you can't, just keep it down.

[VeryAngryFelid]

No dragon form? "Only 170 hp" is hilarious to me.

I can do the same, just lazy. You can laugh at me of course The character still had potions of haste, try killing orb of fire and orb run without any source of haste.

Edit. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13590&p=189399.
No conjurations and just rF+ too. And yes, I killed most pan/hell lord without apocalypse

[Cimanyd]

171 cast of CBlink and 10 potions of cure mutation. Who needs defenses with that?

OP CBlink and statue Form

He says that many players underestimate the power of felids, so he wanted to demonstrate how strong they in fact are.

Getting CBlink easily is, in fact, one of felids' strengths. They share a +4 translocations aptitude with spriggans, and no other species has more than +1.

[gammafunk]

try killing orb of fire and orb run without any source of haste.

orbs of fire are easy to kill without haste, and a felid with extra lives, fast movement, and access to god abilities can't reasonably claim to have trouble on the orb run because of lack of haste.

[VeryAngryFelid]

try killing orb of fire and orb run without any source of haste.

orbs of fire are easy to kill without haste, and a felid with extra lives, fast movement, and access to god abilities can't reasonably claim to have trouble on the orb run because of lack of haste.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Normal speed character without statue form and haste is much harder than Felid in statue form vs orb of fire or in normal form during orb run.

[gammafunk]

Normal species character not in statue form and without haste will generally be at an advantage to a char with statue form and without haste. Give them both haste and this result remains true.

Anyhow I don't think anyone claimed that fast movement is weak or that haste is weak. The player did the run as a novelty demonstration that felids are strong, not in any kind of "this is how you prove felids are strong" way, just in a "this is hard to pull off, yet a felid did it" way.

[VeryAngryFelid]

I claimed that statue form is OP. I disagree with your premise that normal character is better. Unarmed statue form deals much more damage per turn than most weapons especially to monsters with high AC like orb of fire.
Yes, this is very respectable win, no doubt about that.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Some fsims.

Ko from https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/San ... 230138.txt (without extra slaying).
vs orb of fire, +11 lajatang of slicing is very nice weapon, isn't it?

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     13,4 |     67 |      64% |   8,6 |    70  |  1,43 |     12,3

With might:

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           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     19,1 |     79 |      62% |  11,9 |    70  |  1,43 |     17,0

The felid:

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           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     11,5 |     56 |      54% |   6,3 |    50  |  2,00 |     12,5

With statue form:

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     24,3 |     93 |      60% |  14,6 |    75  |  1,33 |     19,5

with statue form and might:

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           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     45,1 |    126 |      58% |  26,3 |    75  |  1,33 |     35,1

[Midn8]

Try a +9 lajatang of speed because speed>slicing.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Statue form is still much better. Also notice that +11 weapons are very rare.

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     11,1 |     52 |      64% |   7,2 |    47  |  2,14 |     15,3

With might

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     16,0 |     57 |      62% |  10,1 |    47  |  2,14 |     21,5

Edit. Strange, might always reduced accuracy from 64% to 62%. Just unlucky I guess.

[WingedEspeon]

Statue form is still much better. Also notice that +11 weapons are very rare.

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     11,1 |     52 |      64% |   7,2 |    47  |  2,14 |     15,3

With might

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     16,0 |     57 |      62% |  10,1 |    47  |  2,14 |     21,5

Edit. Strange, might always reduced accuracy from 64% to 62%. Just unlucky I guess.

I have notice that Fsim will easily change by +-5% or more when used with the default settings for number of trials.

[BabyRage]

Why so obsessed to diminish the achievement?

Maybe because some of us won 15 runes felid without OP god like Ru and know how OP CBlink and statue Form are?
It's a great win but it reminds me XP farming except you farm Ru sacrifices mostly. I mean it is not a big deal to sacrifice Dodging, Hexes or devices when you almost won and reached overpower stage a long time ago, it is a bit of gaming the system IMHO. Do it as your first sacrifices

I've watched Zot part of this game;

Taking out orbs of fire and ancient liches, with only 170 HP with rF+ (rF- + rF+ ring + !resist),
all movement slowed by statue form (otherwise you'll get instakilled by simultaneous 3d43 fireballs), no scroll+potion in emergency,
no haste wand, no stealth, no spider sacks, no beast boxes, no controlled blink... with greatly reduced accuracy/spellpower of iron shot... A crazy work.


You'd better try to demonstrate yourself.
If you can't, just keep it down.

I have won felids of chei with statue/dragon form and no ranged spells. It wasn't a big deal.

http://pastebin.com/xiiZfcke
http://pastebin.com/kh18EeTt
http://pastebin.com/ee84wtgq

Of course playing without evocations is much harder than playing with chei (which is actually pretty damn easy). Still, this player kinda cheated in my opinion, by taking a bunch of sacrifices that don't matter, even if they are major. I dare say that even if he abandoned Ru after all those sacrifices and picked chei, he would still have no problem to win the game, because he still would be able cast statue form/cblink/ddor.

[papilio]

I have won felids of chei with statue/dragon form and no ranged spells. It wasn't a big deal.

http://pastebin.com/xiiZfcke
http://pastebin.com/kh18EeTt
http://pastebin.com/ee84wtgq

Of course playing without evocations is much harder than playing with chei (which is actually pretty damn easy). Still, this player kinda cheated in my opinion, by taking a bunch of sacrifices that don't matter, even if they are major. I dare say that even if he abandoned Ru after all those sacrifices and picked chei, he would still have no problem to win the game, because he still would be able cast statue form/cblink/ddor.

Any skilled player can win felid with statue/dragon form (of course, w/o ranged spells and spiders/beasts), including me and you.

But see, you've said "by taking a bunch of sacrifices that don't matter, even if they are major.", but no, it DOES matter, indeed a lot, provided that they're combined altogether.

Prohibited emergency potion/scrolls, prohibited evocables, reduced ring slot, NO stealth, reduced resistances, reduced attributes, reduced AC/EV,
reduced LV, reduced aptitude, GREATLY reduced spell power/slaying/accuracy of melee attacks or Iron shots,

these SYNERGIES all together to make colossal difference than normal statue form game.

And Controlled Blink is not controlled in Zot:1~5.

[kimnosuk]

I just wish I would be skilled someday enough to neglect penalties of -potions and -scrolls.

[Psieye]

Why so obsessed to diminish the achievement?

Assumed expectations didn't match up to results. It's part of human nature: it doesn't matter what the actual achievement is, people judge it by comparing it to their expectations. This plagues so many areas of society including politics, commerce, art and romance.

In this specific case, some Felid experts assumed "ultimate Ru challenge" meant taking the most serious sacrifices ASAP instead of playing sensibly. "Not as crazy as I thought it would be" frustration then got vented out.


Do pass on my congratulations to the player. A torch of achievement.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Also the "experts" as you call us were probably disappointed with

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 Reject Sacrifices |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |     1 |       |     2 |    31 ||    37

Personally when I am playing Ru I almost never reject sacrifices, it does not make sense from flavor standpoint. Also yes, sometimes I intentionally do the hardest sacrifices.

[xXxMemekMaestro69xXx]

I'm confused, a Felid win is only as impressive as any other hard race wins if it has 0 deaths while much much less impressive than normal wins if they have 13. What exactly is going on here?

[BabyRage]

Felid is not a hard race.

[xXxMemekMaestro69xXx]

Felid is not a hard race.

You are only allowed to say that if you have several 0 death Felid 15 runers

[BabyRage]

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xXxMemekMaestro69xXx

You are only allowed to post on tavern if you are more than 15 years old.

[ddubois]

Was bypassing all the pan lords and hell lords merely the "smart play", or was it totally necessary? I would have thought Level 27 Fighting/Unarmed/Spellcasting/Transmutations/Earth would have enabled shattering, apocalypsing, statue forming, and punching them to death somewhat easy.

I've never played a Felid, nor worshipped Ru, and I'm working on collecting as many "oneandwon"s as I can, and as many god-wins as I can. Is Felid the obvious species to collect my Ru win with? How important is the EE background towards the Controlled Blink/Statue Form end game? I'm thinking I may want to "burn" a few Fe starts with lesser backgrounds first, to learn the build, so as to maximize my chances of getting a oneandwon with a better background.

[Airwolf]

I think Transmuter would be best for guaranteed early access to ice Form.

[4Hooves2Appendages]

Nice victory!

Felids are strong and this demonstrates it nicely.

[tasonir]

Was bypassing all the pan lords and hell lords merely the "smart play", or was it totally necessary? I would have thought Level 27 Fighting/Unarmed/Spellcasting/Transmutations/Earth would have enabled shattering, apocalypsing, statue forming, and punching them to death somewhat easy.

I've never played a Felid, nor worshipped Ru, and I'm working on collecting as many "oneandwon"s as I can, and as many god-wins as I can. Is Felid the obvious species to collect my Ru win with? How important is the EE background towards the Controlled Blink/Statue Form end game? I'm thinking I may want to "burn" a few Fe starts with lesser backgrounds first, to learn the build, so as to maximize my chances of getting a oneandwon with a better background.

EE background isn't terribly important in terms of getting towards Cblink/statue form. Getting those primarily depends on 1) getting to the mid game in general and 2) actually finding the spells. It's a nice bonus to have some earth magic already when you find statue form, but if you have to raise earth from 0, it isn't that hard to do once you're in the appropriate section of the game. Not finding statue form early enough is a bigger risk.

EE background is very strong because it lets you keep things at range in the early dungeon, and run away if you run out of mana. Melee backgrounds are fine and you can still run away easily, but you first risk taking big melee hits with a very small life total, so they aren't as safe if you're trying to have a high win rate. "Keeping things at range" is why you would pick an EE start, getting to statue form somewhat easier is minor in comparison.