My monster danger ranking
MainiacJoe wrote:duvessa wrote:steam dragon since it appears early sometimes
the others don't really do anything
I tend to agree with you and Sprucery about dragons. But I'm curious, since you also called old iron giants harmless recently, which if any monsters you do consider dangerous. I have my guess that you'd say something like adders and other early game threats--but which ones?
I do not like tier lists. Unordered-within-tier lists are just a way to be noncommital, and ordered-within-tier lists are just ordered lists. So this is a full ordered list. I might be slightly out of date on some monsters but I doubt it will make much of a difference.
If something is higher than you'd expect, consider:
1. whether it is a valid polymorph target, and if so, its HD and holiness
2. vaults that place it earlier than it would randomly generate
You will notice some clustering of uniques and holinesses. It should be easy to figure out why.
Ziggurats are not considered in this list, but 15-rune games are. Ziggurats are screwy and would inflate some monsters (like mummy priest and greater mummy) by ridiculous amounts if included. Speedruns are also not considered, just ordinary playing to win with 3 or 15 runes.
I omitted derived undead because roughly tripling the length of the list for the sake of including a bunch of irrelevant monsters doesn't appeal to me.
I omitted player ghosts because their placement depends on the computer you're playing on (what a great monster design!!!!!) so they might be at the very bottom because they don't exist, or they might be at the very top because they can fire storm you on d:4.
"Why doesn't this match your online stats????" Because I usually play inattentively, I usually play badly and I frequently suicide and startscum. Feel free to count that against me as a player. But if you count it for the danger level of mountain bats, you're being silly.
I can't think of any online account (or set of accounts) that has a large enough sample size and little enough noise to be useful for something like this.
Finally, I hope this demonstrates that Crawl has way too many monsters.
- == Start of list: monsters that can and do frequently end games that are being played reasonably well ==
- Giant gecko. I have been saying for a long time now that giant gecko is the most dangerous monster in the game. It is similar to a jackal, but is more common and does significantly more damage, enough that I consider it the biggest threat to my games where I really try to win, averaged across all combos.
- Kobold. I might not be justified in putting kobolds over hobgoblins, since the median hobgoblin is much worse than the median kobold. But kobolds with branded weapons are terrifying, and a D:2 blowgun kobold can just randomly kill you.
- Hobgoblin
- Adder. People love to cite D:1 adders as a source of unavoidable death. This is because they don't know what they're talking about, and don't know that adders can't generate on D:1 until after turn 700. Sometimes it's hard to finish D:1 before then, particularly if using autoexplore and/or 5, but they are not the immediate threat that kobold, hobgoblin, etc. are. I do think they're the biggest threat on D:2 though, which is enough to put them in 4th place. Orc priests and quokkas begin generating on D:1 at the same time as adders do. Exception: there's a vault I made that can very rarely place an adder on D:1, but it is relatively easy to avoid.
- Jackal. These are scarier for people who don't understand noise and/or packs. Also neutered a lot by not autoexploring all of D:1.
- Goblin. These are underestimated. Unlike hobgoblins, they can spawn with hunting slings and branded daggers on D:1.
- Orc wizard
- Gnoll
- Centaur
- Hound
- Orc priest
- Ooze
- Water moccasin
- Worker ant
- Giant cockroach
- Ijyb. Placing her above Sigmund is controversial, but Sigmund cannot spawn with an item that does 37 damage to you from the edge of LOS.
- Gnoll shaman
- Giant frog
- Sigmund. Immediate confusion is enough to put him above the other D:2 uniques except Ijyb, despite his wand threat being smaller than the others'.
- Natasha. Incredibly scary as a wand user because she is the only D:2 unique with fast movement.
- Jessica
- Terence
- Dart slug
- Bat
- == This marks the point at which monsters are theoretically or rarely a real threat. Most early-ish uniques are here because they can get wands, but a D:3 wand monster is much less scary than a D:2 one. Most of the monsters here are here because of their potential as OOD spawns. ==
- Grinder. She is not as dangerous as Natasha with a wand, but without a wand she can do a lot more than Natasha. I could see her being placed higher.
- Prince Ribbit
- Killer bee
- Blork the orc
- Centaur warrior
- Quokka
- Gnoll sergeant
- Wyvern
- Orc
- Ogre
- Warg
- Nessos. Pretty dangerous if you haven't found a hex wand.
- Robin. Has the dubious distinction of being the only D:2 unique that you don't need to worry about getting wanded by, since her pack of goblins almost always gives you advance warning AND blocks her line of fire.
- Duvessa
- Dowan
- Edmund
- Eustachio
- Deep elf mage
- Steam dragon
- Iguana
- Ball python
- Frilled lizard. These are functionally identical to giant newts. I guess the change was made because the long-term goal for DCSS is for every monster to have spells.
- Rat
- Ugly thing. These generate early pretty often now.
- Erolcha
- Gargoyle
- Menkaure. A wand threat but not much of one since he's slow.
- Orc sorcerer
- Orc warrior
- Fire crab. These are high because they are a Lair spawn and I would argue they are the biggest threat in Lair, because although they're rare, they can generate on any Lair level and have near-instakill potential there.
- Sixfirhy. I strongly believe sixfirhies are the most dangerous summon in the game. The only overall faster one is a hasted Executioner, which doesn't appear until much, much later in the game. So they are nearly impossible to escape without stairs (which will also get you away from literally every other summon in the game) or meph, and they put out a ton of damage.
- Sun demon. Sixfirhies are really a more dangerous version of sun demons with a silly movement gimmick; I'm glad they were finally moved up a tier to reflect that. Sun demons being harder to kill is not enough to make them more dangerous than the version of them that's way faster and does similar damage.
- Sonja
- Psyche
- Crimson imp. Has to find a rod or strong wand; otherwise (which is most of the time) it is harmless.
- Black mamba
- Blink frog
- Spiny frog
- Meliai. By the time you reach beehive depth these are only an annoyance, but they can be a bad OOD spawn.
- Unseen horror. These are overrepresented in online stats because most players don't know what batty movement is. If you do know, only OOD unseen horrors should be a problem. Because OOD unseen horrors are ridiculously bad, they still have a pretty high place on the list.
- Wasp
- Lindwurm
- Spriggan
- Joseph
- Maurice
- Porcupine. It really disappoints me that this monster even exists. While laughably weak in its native branch, it's a horrible early polymorph result, which earns it a high place.
- Boggart. These are only potentially dangerous as a polymorph target and are extremely overrated as one. People in irc will paste "The orc warrior evaporates and reforms into a boggart" and follow it with something like "rip me, better get my dick out because im about to meet harambe", apparently not realizing that if you polymorph something into a boggart on D:4, the boggart can still only summon D:4 monsters, and has almost identical durability to a giant frog. You should be more afraid of polymorphing something into a porcupine (same HD). Normally-generated boggarts are also obnoxious in console because during "autopilot" it's easy to not notice that the monsters you're fighting are summons, but I don't think that should be considered dangerous.
- Torpor snail IF YOU USE AUTOEXPLORE IN LAIR. Because autoexplore handles corners etc. badly, it frequently puts you in situations where torpor snails cost you some resources.
- Big kobold
- Komodo dragon
- Basilisk
- Crocodile
- Shadow imp
- White imp
- Quasit
- Ogre mage
- Pikel. Pikel is hard to take seriously because the slaves prevent him from wanding you.
- Orc knight
- Molten gargoyle
- Dancing weapon
- Blizzard demon
- Hornet
- Spriggan druid
- Deep elf knight
- Raiju
- Mottled dragon
- Phantom
- Shadow
- Spark wasp. The danger level of a spark wasp at its native depth is 0. However, their existence makes polymorph a bad option against many monsters, and makes them an outright threat if you're worshipping Xom.
- Kobold demonologist
- Deep elf archer
- Tengu conjurer
- Air elemental
- Vampire mosquito
- Orc warlord
- Shapeshifter and glowing shapeshifter (I think the only difference between the two that is actually noticeable is the places in which they appear, so I might as well combine them)
- Wolf spider
- Guardian serpent
- Felid
- Very ugly thing
- Scorpion
- Acid blob. These are bad when they spawn in Lair, and as a polymorph target, but both are uncommon.
- Rime drake
- Shock serpent
- == This marks the point at which monsters either:
1. have almost no capacity to kill well-played characters, but are potentially troublesome if you're playing lazy
2. could theoretically be dangerous, but the circumstances required are vanishingly rare
3. are a polymorph threat when worshipping Xom, but otherwise harmless (Killer Klown) == - Howler monkey
- Jelly
- Octopode
- Aizul. This is the only post-Lair unique that I find kind of scary.
- Orc high priest
- Anaconda
- Ice beast
- River rat
- Troll
- Purgy
- Wolf
- Wight
- Sky beast
- Hell rat. These are sort of scary now because of certain vaults.
- Manticore
- Elephant
- Yak
- Slave
- Hippogriff
- Harpy
- Vault warden
- Spriggan rider
- Spatial maelstrom
- Apocalypse crab. I may be overrating these as you have to be very unlucky to actually encounter one when it matters.
- Wizard
- Urug
- Entropy weaver
- Grum
- Quicksilver dragon
- Snorg
- Sea snake
- Wraith
- Agnes
- Deep elf master archer. "High-tier" deep elves will be clustered as they all appear in almost the same places.
- Tengu warrior
- Sphinx
- Ironbrand convoker
- Lich. I think these are a little more relevant than ancient liches because they can appear earlier.
- Deep elf blademaster
- Fannar
- Deep elf sorcerer
- Deep elf high priest
- Deep elf annihilator
- Deep elf demonologist
- Fire elemental
- [Nonbase draconians go somewhere here, I'm not ranking all 63 of them]
- Tengu reaver
- Nergalle
- Vault sentinel
- Ancient lich
- War gargoyle
- Spriggan air mage
- Spriggan berserker
- Hellion
- Ufetubus
- Hell Sentinel
- Brimstone Fiend
- Executioner
- Hellephant
- Ghost crab
- Water elemental
- Soldier ant
- Freezing wraith
- Azure jelly. This is only a problem if it spawns in Lair, which is uncommon, and its HD is too high to be a polymorph threat without Xom.
- Storm dragon
- Fire giant
- Stone giant
- Wretched star
- Ice Fiend. These are extremely overrated. I think it's because most players don't know bolt of cold's range. They are only this high because they can stop some characters from completing an ice cave without using limited resources. Even then, a blizzard demon in an ice cave is more dangerous than an Ice Fiend in an ice cave.
- Fire dragon
- Ice dragon
- Hill giant
- Crystal guardian
- Sojobo
- Boris
- Slime creature
- Jorgrun
- Two-headed ogre
- Necromancer
- Hydra. People complain about these a lot because they're ubiquitous and hard to melee, but they are easy to avoid engaging, unless you're a naga or Chei character in which case they're a bit harder (but most of the stuff above is still more dangerous). The main threats from hydras are impatience and ??stair_deaths.
- Polar bear
- Wind drake
- Yaktaur captain
- Rupert
- Harold
- Hungry ghost
- Alligator
- Angel
- Cyclops. Slow.
- Death ooze. Same situation as azure jelly, except even Xom can't create one via polymorph, and it's weaker as a monster too.
- Necrophage
- Worm
- Deep troll earth mage
- Ettin
- Swamp drake
- Phantasmal warrior. The -MR is irrelevant, they are here for their melee damage and making your movements take an additional 300ms realtime since they love to blink in front of you.
- Snapping turtle
- Balrug
- Cacodemon
- Hell beast
- Flayed ghost
- Smoke demon
- Azrael
- Flying skull
- Louise
- Deep elf elementalist
- Shadow demon
- Rakshasa
- Deep elf death mage
- Giant leech
- Eidolon
- Shadow dragon
- Nikola. High autoexplore death potential. Can't do much else.
- Shadow wraith
- Reaper
- Swamp dragon
- Thorn hunter
- Erica
- Efreet
- Yaktaur
- Mana viper. I may be overrating these. They are only a problem as a polymorph target.
- Tormentor
- Death knight
- Lorocyproca
- Soul eater
- Green death
- Ynoxinul
- Diamond obelisk. I think you can still be shafted into one early in the game. If not, then put it at the bottom.
- Jumping spider
- Hell hound
- Fire bat
- Kirke
- Caustic shrike. Too much HD to be a polymorph threat without Xom. Not really dangerous by the time it appears, provided you are willing to avoid melee.
- Tzitzimitl
- Ghost moth
- the Enchantress
- Spriggan defender
- Mennas. Breaks autoexplore. Mennas is really only a problem for mummies, since he can confuse them the same turn he enters LOS and they will probably die if that happens. If you don't autoexplore he is harmless.
- Death yak
- Deep troll shaman
- Deep troll
- Mara
- Shambling mangrove
- Hell knight
- Demonic crawler
- Vampire bat
- Josephine
- Dire elephant
- Apis. Dual holiness existing, in addition to being insane, means that living monsters polymorph into these.
- Torpor snail IF YOU EXPLORE LAIR MANUALLY. In this case, you should be handling corners and doorways correctly and can immediately undo the slowing and deal with whatever the other monsters in the pack are, as if the torpor snail didn't exist.
- Hellwing
- Tarantella
- Redback
- Crazy Yiuf. Now that he is behind a runed door the only danger is shafting/teleport into one of the 8 squares of his cottage, which is too rare for me to take seriously. Mind you, if Yiuf is going to be in the game this is exactly how it should be. A speed 10 unique that cannot safely be meleed but usually has no ranged attack is an uninteresting yet really annoying unique.
- Skeletal warrior
- Black bear
- Starcursed mass
- Titan
- Margery
- Xtahua
- Griffon
- Bog body
- Merfolk
- Frederick
- Saint Roka
- Jiangshi
- Satyr
- Electric golem. This is higher than orb of fire because it appears outside of Zot.
- Tentacled monstrosity
- Donald
- Orb Guardian
- Orb of fire
- Rust devil
- Red devil
- Orange demon
- Vault guard
- Ice devil
- Neqoxec
- Thrashing horror
- Frost giant. This is another monster that people are only scared of because they don't know bolt of cold's range.
- Eye of devastation
- Vampire knight
- Asterion
- Naga mage. These are higher than the other nagas because I kept putting them in vaults for some reason.
- Catoblepas
- Tentacled starspawn
- Mummy
- Merfolk aquamancer
- Juggernaut. I have voiced my dislike of this monster's design before, so I will just remind you how easy it is to stop them from following you across stairs, or neuter them with level 1 summons. Restoring their old damage would not change their place on the list.
- The Lernaean Hydra. The only thing this monster really does is sometimes instakill you for using autoexplore on Swamp:$. Currently the most played ttyrec on FooTV (since the last reset) is of that exact thing happening to me.
- Alligator snapping turtle
- Roxanne
- Daeva
- Giant orange brain
- Hell hog
- Small abomination
- Large abomination. These are actually slower than small abominations, for some reason.
- Merfolk javelineer
- Merfolk impaler
- Faun
- Vampire mage
- Insubstantial wisp
- Bennu
- Vampire
- Iron imp
- [Nonbase demonspawn go somewhere here, I'm not ranking all 25 of them, but they're very low danger as they basically don't exist outside Pan]
- Toenail golem
- Greater naga
- Shard shrike
- Killer Klown
- Death scarab
- Tiamat
- Ghoul
- Shining eye
- Giant eyeball
- Golden eye
- Moth of wrath
- Ilsuiw. Ilsuiw is exhausting since she takes a long time to deal with and appears in EVERY Shoals, but she can't really do anything else.
- Minotaur
- Arachne. This is a bad clone of Aizul, localized to a place where she is easy to avoid.
- Death drake
- Ancient champion
- Revenant
- Naga
- Water nymph. Remember how in the D&D 3.5 monster manual they just straight up drew a nude elf for the water nymph illustration?
- Jory
- Curse skull
- Greater mummy
- Mummy priest
- Khufu
- Doom hound
- = This marks the point at which even dying or losing resources to these monsters (or anything relating to them) by inattention or Xom is practically impossible. Either they are extremely easy to avoid, or cannot do noticeable damage at all, and polymorphs to them are not a threat. Of course, deaths still occur with situations like "screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok" or just not being spoiled about the monster. =
- Orb spider
- Naga sharpshooter
- Formicid
- Elf
- Ironheart preserver
- Gastronok
- Salamander mystic
- Golden dragon
- Siren
- Emperor scorpion
- Bai Suzhen
- Swamp worm (that vault that instakills you with swamp worms for using autoexplore in Lair without travel_avoid_terrain is gone now, right?)
- Serpent of Hell (don't care to rank them separately, they are too close together and too low-threat)
- Great orb of eyes
- Frances
- Polyphemus. The repeated buffs to his damage and HP don't solve the problem that he is almost Gastronok-tier easy to walk away from...and he appears much later than Gastronok.
- Salamander
- Naga ritualist
- Ignacio
- Hog
- Bone dragon
- Worldbinder
- Vashnia
- Iron elemental
- Ushabti
- Naga warrior
- Iron giant. No, giving them back throw would not move them higher. Yes, taking their speed away again would move them even lower. Moving them back to Depths would move them up to about the same level of irrelevance as minotaurs.
- Spatial vortex
- Merfolk avatar. These are just baffling, the most noticeable thing they do is run away.
- Moon troll
- Iron troll
- Fire vortex
- Silent spectre. Breaks autoexplore, but unlike Mennas they do nothing.
- Iron golem
- Earth elemental
- Iron dragon
- Elemental wellspring
- Seraph
- Ice statue
- Electric eel
- Lava snake
- Profane servitor
- Orange crystal statue
- Queen bee
- Random Pan lords
- Kraken. I think most players don't realize the tentacles only work if the kraken monster itself is in LOS. They're basically statues that can be poisoned.
- Eye of draining
- Oklob plant
- Vine stalker
- Draconian
- Demigod
- Deep dwarf
- Dwarf
- Halfling
- Death cob
- Curse toe
- Obsidian statue
- Ball lightning
- Statue
- Dissolution
- The Royal Jelly
- Hellbinder
- Guardian mummy
- Ancient zyme
- Gloorx Vloq
- Cloud Mage
- Geryon
- Lom Lobon
- Cerebov
- Mnoleg
- Lurking horror
- Ereshkigal
- Asmodeus
- Dispater
- Antaeus
- Murray
- Queen ant
- Oklob sapling
- Lost soul
- Pearl dragon
- Cherub
- Ophan
- Holy swine
- == Below this point, monsters have 0 danger ==
- Butterfly
- Training dummy
- Hyperactive ballistomycete
- Ballistomycete
- Toadstool
- == Below this point, monsters have negative danger ==
- Boulder beetle. The worst-designed monster in the game in my opinion and it can only hit you if you make a typo.
- Wandering mushroom
- Lightning spire
- Burning bush
- Bush
- Fungus
- Plant, withered plant, and demonic plant
Don't know, haven't looked at them enough yet, but I suspect they will be very low:
Peacekeeper
Saltling
Dream sheep (could potentially be high if you autoexplore in lair)
Ragged hierophant
Servant of whispers
Imperial myrmidon
Halazid warlock
edit: fixed spatial vortex being listed as spatial maelstrom
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