CiP: HEWz


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 35

Joined: Saturday, 20th August 2011, 03:39

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 04:15

CiP: HEWz

I decided to worship Sif Muna with this character, since I was bored with Kiku, Piety gain was pretty easy, and I've had some luck in other regards (early boots of running, artifact flail with Elec brand and some other goodies, artifact amulet of the Air...) I also gained some good mutations from drink-testing a potion, and promptly lost them drink-testing another potion. You win some, you lose some.

Anyway, after finding an early book with Throw Icicle in it, I decided to aim for Ice Storm and busily trained 8 levels in Ice Magic. Sif Muna, who had clearly been having a chat with Xom while my back was turned, then gave me an artifact spellbook with a whole bunch of fire spells, including Fire Storm. Is it worth training up fire magic or should I hold out for more ice books?

Also, what exactly makes Sif Muna worthwhile? Is it just the spellbooks? 1d2-1d5 channeling doesn't seem like it would do much in the endgame, since you can't generally afford to stand still regenerating magic while an ancient lich or an orb of fire barrels down on you.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Location: Surabaya, Indonesia

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 04:28

Re: CiP: HEWz

Also, what exactly makes Sif Muna worthwhile? Is it just the spellbooks? 1d2-1d5 channeling doesn't seem like it would do much in the endgame, since you can't generally afford to stand still regenerating magic while an ancient lich or an orb of fire barrels down on you.

Channeling is pretty okay at high Invocations. With channeling, you can use as many buff spells as you want at a safe spot, refill your MP, and then charge toward your enemies with full tank. Necromut eliminates the hunger cost.

With Fire Storm, the spell creates a bunch of flames surrounding your enemies, preventing them from moving towards you or directly attack you for a while. It buys you some time to channel more MP :)

Channeling isn't as powerful as Vehumet's MP for kills, but is much more versatile.

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Parcae

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 04:40

Re: CiP: HEWz

I don't know if Fire Storm would be worth it if you're already into Ice Magic (since having that slaps a massive aptitude penalty on Fire Magic until your level in THAT is higher). Not to mention that high level spells like that take a pretty obscene skill level to cast in the first place. People on this forum keep saying that Fire Magic is weak anyway, and they're probably right.

Hold out for more ice books. Sif Muna is going to be throwing books at you all game, and eventually one of them will contain Ice Storm and/or other great ice spells.

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Parcae

Crypt Cleanser

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Joined: Monday, 14th February 2011, 05:35

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 05:14

Re: CiP: HEWz

Parcae wrote: Is it worth training up fire magic

No.

Also, what exactly makes Sif Muna worthwhile? Is it just the spellbooks? 1d2-1d5 channeling doesn't seem like it would do much in the endgame, since you can't generally afford to stand still regenerating magic while an ancient lich or an orb of fire barrels down on you.


Well, there is no reason you have to use the channeling then. Think of it as a prophylactic. The most important advice I can give, in general, is to prevent problems before they happen, and channeling is a good way to do that.

Many players also prize sif for the miscast protection. With max piety, you can safely cast ice storm (or whatever spell) at lower success rates.
mikee_ has won 166 times in 396 games (41.92%): 4xDSFi 4xMDFi 3xDDCK 3xDDEE 3xHOPr 2xDDHe 2xDDNe 2xDSBe 2xKeAE 2xMfCr 2xMfSt 2xMiAr 2xMiBe 2xNaTm 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCePa 1xCeTm 1xCeWz 1xDDAs 1xDDCr 1xDDHu 1xDDTm 1xDENe 1xDEWz

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Parcae

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 08:17

Re: CiP: HEWz

channeling is strong when you are in a tight spot, or if you are diving into the hells and cannot afford to rest.
it is also nice early on if you just defeated an (e.g.) elephant and can balance out the food cost immediately. as already mentioned it works well with necromutation, allowing you to cast necromutation, fly, swiftness (and whatever buffs you like), channel a few turns and attack with full mana. consider necromutation (8), fly(3), swiftness(2), phase shift(6), deflect missiles(5?) and haste(6), nice to get all this mana back within a few turns!
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cerebovssquire, Parcae

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2914

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 09:54

Re: CiP: HEWz

slowcar wrote:channeling is strong when you are in a tight spot, or if you are diving into the hells and cannot afford to rest.
it is also nice early on if you just defeated an (e.g.) elephant and can balance out the food cost immediately. as already mentioned it works well with necromutation, allowing you to cast necromutation, fly, swiftness (and whatever buffs you like), channel a few turns and attack with full mana. consider necromutation (8), fly(3), swiftness(2), phase shift(6), deflect missiles(5?) and haste(6), nice to get all this mana back within a few turns!


Phase Shift (5)
Deflect Missiles (6) (Repel Missiles is enough though)
Flight (4)

I agree with this though; especially while stairdancing V:8 or the Tomb, casting buffs and then challening is helpful. It's also nice before the lords of Pandemonium or Hell where most casters will need all MP they can get if they intend to kill them.

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Parcae

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 09:59

Re: CiP: HEWz

cerebovssquire wrote:Deflect Missiles (6) (Repel Missiles is enough though)

deflect is quite superior, mainly due to the guaranteed effect. as soon as i can cast it reliably i learn it, and as soon as the hunger cost is manageable i replace repel.

Bot Deflect wrote:A level 6 Ench/Air spell that deflects enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll *to* a random amount between: 0% and 66% for penetrating beams, 0% and 50% for single-target missiles)

Bot Repel wrote: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles
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Parcae

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2914

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 10:01

Re: CiP: HEWz

It's doubtlessly stronger but not more efficient in terms of MP and skills. Most characters will need Air Magic in addition to Charms. Plus, it's 6 spell slots for a speed not needed as opposed to 2. In general, my rule of thumb regarding it would be "cast it on an Air Magic caster who has good Int/Spellcasting and too many slots" but that won't be many. Perhaps on this specific character, but usually it isn't worth the effort. Fighting, Dodging(/Armour), Translocations and other Charms are more important than using up experience and/or slots for Air Magic and Deflect Missiles.

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Parcae

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 11:21

Re: CiP: HEWz

cerebovssquire wrote:It's doubtlessly stronger but not more efficient in terms of MP and skills. Most characters will need Air Magic in addition to Charms. Plus, it's 6 spell slots for a speed not needed as opposed to 2.

When you have high enough int/spellcasting to cast it hunger free you can usually cast it without air magic as well. lower ranks in a skill are also quite cheap.
deflect helps against ranged attacks, be it missiles or spells as well as breath weapons, and is a boon for every character.
it is rare to be so tight on spell slots, and there are numerous other spells i would rather remove from my standard lists.
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

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Parcae

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 35

Joined: Saturday, 20th August 2011, 03:39

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 13:57

Re: CiP: HEWz

I've seen people post flight as a desideratum on their spell lists a lot. Why? Is it just for the swiftness enhancement or the ability to flee over lava? I have levitation and controlled flight from equipment, but haven't seen the need to use it so far?

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 35

Joined: Saturday, 20th August 2011, 03:39

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 17:52

Re: CiP: HEWz

I just found an artifact dire flail with MUT+, but it has some seriously nice modifiers apart from that (freeze, stealth, resist cold, MR AND see invisibility). Is the MUT+ a dealbreaker?

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 17:55

Re: CiP: HEWz

Unfortunately, yes. You'll end up with a lot of bad mutations, especially if you keep it equipped constantly. If you really, really need it, equip it for only a few turns (until you've clobbered whatever it is that you can't run away from or kill any other way), but that's it.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 461

Joined: Monday, 13th June 2011, 00:21

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 18:44

Re: CiP: HEWz

Right, magical contamination. If your "Glow" status is written in gray, you're safe. But if you let it climb any higher (yellow or worse), you risk mutation and/or a violent backlash. So unequip the weapon before then!

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Parcae

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 35

Joined: Saturday, 20th August 2011, 03:39

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 19:39

Re: CiP: HEWz

Oh, well. I ditched it.

By the way, there's an altar of Xom surrounded by "unnaturally hard rock walls" as well as a bunch of glorious loot. I assume that it is impossible for me to get at the loot by any means, ever?

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Monday, 5th September 2011, 21:28

Re: CiP: HEWz

Parcae wrote:Oh, well. I ditched it.

By the way, there's an altar of Xom surrounded by "unnaturally hard rock walls" as well as a bunch of glorious loot. I assume that it is impossible for me to get at the loot by any means, ever?

yes. it's just an evil trick.
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