OpVM Early Game Questions

[bobross419]

I've been playing a lot of OpVM lately and I've seen many posts that say VM is very powerful in the early game and I've done very well in getting through the very early stages of the game, but I've run into some issues along the way.

My first step is to dive down to Temple to worship either Vehemut or Sif. I avoid as many monsters as I can so that I can get better piety. Doing the dive and monster avoidance has helped my game tremendously - Its helped me learn that I can run away from monsters and don't have to kill everything lol.

I seem to be more successful with Sif, so he is my primary choice. I go with Veh if I find any early shrine or Sif isn't in Temple for some reason.

My main issues revolve around hunger and poison resistant monsters.

Overall my hunger seems to be more a factor of the RNG giving me food, edible chunks, and ring of poison resist. At any rate, if I don't have a ring of poison resist to let me eat Kobold corpses I seem to start running into hunger issues about the time I'm approaching Lair. I've died more than a few times by either starving to death or not being able to cast spells due to being in starving and getting mauled by fast monsters.

I've tried pumping Spell Casting to alleviate my hunger issues, but then I run into a problem of my Poison Bolt (seems to be able to damage poison resistant monsters) not being reliable.

My best run so far has involved lucking out with an early jewelry shop and buying a Ring of Wizardry and Ring of Poison Resistance. RoW let me unfocus training on Poison early so my Bolt was at Excellent and pump more into spellcasting (everything but Poison and Lightening Bolt were at hungerless when I died), and the RoPR let me eat poison chunks so hunger was less of an issue.

Here is my current game plan:

Turn off all skills but Poison, Turn on Manual, Turn on Focus,
Dive to Temple avoiding as many monsters as possible
Enter Sewer if I find one and have Mephitic
Go back up to D:1 and begin clearing monsters
Run away from anything that is resistant to Mephitic and Strike
At Poison 10, Focus Poison, turn on training for SpellCasting/Conjurations
If I find a book that will help me deal with pois res monsters memorize a DD (preferably Air as I've already started from Meph)

I've used wands/potions/scrolls as much as I can, but they aren't reliable due to being random drops. I'd like some pointers on this build to help me deal with Hunger and Poison Resist monsters that doesn't involve praying to the RNG.

Thanks

[KoboldLord]

Here is my current game plan:

Turn off all skills but Poison, Turn on Manual, Turn on Focus,
…
At Poison 10, Focus Poison, turn on training for SpellCasting/Conjurations

Here's a huge chunk of your problem. Being a venomancer doesn't mean you shut off EVERYTHING but poison magic. Your big early-game goal is to get Mephitic Cloud online, and you're going to get it working much more cost-effectively if you train all the skills involved. Low levels are cheap, and the cost to get high levels of skill grow exponentially. Spellcasting should certainly stay on for most of the early game; not only does it reduce spell hunger, it also gives you more mp to cast with and raises your spell success a little bit. Certainly it will have a more cost-effective impact on spell success alone than raising poison magic from 9 to 10!

Dive to Temple avoiding as many monsters as possible
Enter Sewer if I find one and have Mephitic
Go back up to D:1 and begin clearing monsters

I don't know why you'd want to dive for the Temple. Monster spawns do not depend on your level, so the centaurs and orc warrior spawning around the Temple will have the same level of power regardless of whether you're rushing or advancing carefully. A few monsters are scary things to avoid, but most of the others are mobile xp piñatas for you. If you're wanting to grind piety, remember that backtracking costs piety that you're trying to stockpile because most deities' piety decays over time. If you didn't find the Temple unusually easily, odds are pretty good that hunting down the last few monsters on the higher levels will result in a net loss of piety.

Speaking of the divine, Vehumet is probably a safer choice than Sif Muna because Vehumet is guaranteed to gift you a book useful against poison-resistant enemies as soon as you qualify, while Sif Muna is likely to give you another poison-themed book or something defensive. Also don't discount Kiku, since Pain, Agony, and Dispel Undead work wonders against almost everything in the early- and mid-game that resists poison, and zombie mobs work against almost everything too.

Incidentally, Venom Bolt is not nearly as good as the other bolt spells. You should probably try to avoid leaning on it for scratch damage, because it is painfully inefficient to use in this way. It's probably much more cost-effective to avoid poison-resistant enemies, and sometimes you just have to abandon the field entirely if there are too many wights or wargs to deal with. You'll probably want to stay away from Lair until you get a non-poison spell, because trying to scratch damage spiny frogs, black mambas, or hydras to death will generally end in tears.

[bobross419]

Thanks for the skill tips, it definitely makes sense once its spelled out like that for me.

You're right about why I'm diving early. I'm hoping for the piety gains through backtracking, but I'll give standard crawling a try with Veh. Great advice on Kiku, looking at her wiki page she gifts a book very early (*) that would be a great complement to poison and I did pretty well with a few Ne builds that I've tried. I think I did consider going Kiku once, but she wasn't in temple and forgot all about her.

Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how it works out for me.

Any way to get Crawl to give my Op as many rings as it gives my MiBe? lol

[bobross419]

Get down to the temple... No Sif, Veh, or Kiku... lol Crawl hates me

[joellercoaster]

They'll be around! Overflow altars are guaranteed nearby, they're just a bit less convenient.

[Happy Corner]

Overflow can work in your favor, too. The Temple doesn't spawn until D:4 at the earliest, but overflow altars can appear as early as D:2. It's always nice when the RNG smiles upon you and you find your chosen god's altar ahead of schedule.

[EasterSudharta]

yes VM is very powerful in early game. I had the same problem of yours this is quite hard.

[tasonir]

Diving to the temple can certainly increase your piety, but it can be tricky to do unless you're on a very powerful combination, trolls, minotaurs, that sort of thing. I usually clear out d1 fully, because you're going to want to at least have a few levels. Especially for casters who are going to need to be level 3 for mephitic cloud, and to get some mana. But then I will skip 2 and 3, taking the first downstairs you see. As long as there are a fair amount of monsters left on the level, you will end up with more piety than if you had cleared them before picking a god.

As already mentioned, you don't need poison anywhere near 10 for early game, about 4-5 will be plenty for mephitic, get spellcasting up to 5-10 first. If your spells are hungerless you shouldn't ever starve, even without poison resistance.

[Jhenna]

Diving to the temple can certainly increase your piety, but it can be tricky to do unless you're on a very powerful combination, trolls, minotaurs, that sort of thing. I usually clear out d1 fully, because you're going to want to at least have a few levels. Especially for casters who are going to need to be level 3 for mephitic cloud, and to get some mana. But then I will skip 2 and 3, taking the first downstairs you see. As long as there are a fair amount of monsters left on the level, you will end up with more piety than if you had cleared them before picking a god.

As already mentioned, you don't need poison anywhere near 10 for early game, about 4-5 will be plenty for mephitic, get spellcasting up to 5-10 first. If your spells are hungerless you shouldn't ever starve, even without poison resistance.

Totally agree everything that you said.

[dk]

Even if Octopodes are fragile, you can save some food by approaching weaker monsters in melee instead of casting spells, since constriction deals a lot of damage and will kill most early monsters easily. Soften the mosters before by throwing floor trash on them.