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If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
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duvessa wrote:The meaningful part of amulet of reflection is that it gives you SH. The actual reflection property is usually inconsequential.
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:The anti-magic brand is usually inconsequential too, but we don't call anti-magic meaningless because of it; it's strong despite not doing anything most of the time.
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:The anti-magic brand is usually inconsequential too, but we don't call anti-magic meaningless because of it; it's strong despite not doing anything most of the time.
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me wrote:e: don't any of you fuckers dare make this a discussion about amulets of harm or some other bullshit
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gammafunk wrote:Well I can't really see your thanks to posts ratio, so I can't accurately judge whether your rules are worth listening to.
Arrhythmia wrote:me wrote:e: don't any of you fuckers dare make this a discussion about amulets of harm or some other bullshit
how fucking dare you people
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gammafunk wrote:Reflection is usually inconsequential because the effect rarely triggers in a way that would be meaningful if you had the SH but no reflection. This is different from anti-magic because that effect triggers frequently in a way that has a meaningful outcome. These things are easily apparent when you actually try using them in-game.
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Sandman25 wrote:Edit. I mean are you going to use antimagic instead of electro or vampiric vs most casters?
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Siegurt wrote:Dangerous ones? Yes, every time. (Note that vampric is a particularly poor choice there) Non dangerous ones i probably won't bother to swap whatever happens to be in my hands out, because it isn't important.
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Sandman25 wrote:Siegurt wrote:Dangerous ones? Yes, every time. (Note that vampric is a particularly poor choice there) Non dangerous ones i probably won't bother to swap whatever happens to be in my hands out, because it isn't important.
I see. I prefer vampiric vs monsters like Deep Elf Annihilator/Sorcerer.
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nago wrote:Why?
Usually a DE is killed in 2 or 3 hits if you using a 2 hander. If you hit them with a vamp weapon you give them at least a couple of turns to damage you much more of you can heal back with the vampiric effect - it's enough to be hit one time with iron shot, lcs, ligh bolt and so on.
With AM, your first hit has a good chance to disable them and kill them good without suffering other damage - this is particularly good against a DE annhilator who keep blink around and throw things to you.
Then I obviously never swap to AM if using vamp - heck I often don't do even against liches and similar - because it's annoying as hell to eat to get vamp back. But that's bad habit.
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Sandman25 wrote:nago wrote:Why?
Usually a DE is killed in 2 or 3 hits if you using a 2 hander. If you hit them with a vamp weapon you give them at least a couple of turns to damage you much more of you can heal back with the vampiric effect - it's enough to be hit one time with iron shot, lcs, ligh bolt and so on.
With AM, your first hit has a good chance to disable them and kill them good without suffering other damage - this is particularly good against a DE annhilator who keep blink around and throw things to you.
Then I obviously never swap to AM if using vamp - heck I often don't do even against liches and similar - because it's annoying as hell to eat to get vamp back. But that's bad habit.
I have tried AM vs them too but still prefer vampiric. I died (or almost died) with both vampiric and AM, none of them guarantees anything. Vampiric is great when you have to fight several monsters in a row which is common in Elf.
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:gammafunk wrote:Reflection is usually inconsequential because the effect rarely triggers in a way that would be meaningful if you had the SH but no reflection. This is different from anti-magic because that effect triggers frequently in a way that has a meaningful outcome. These things are easily apparent when you actually try using them in-game.
this seems to be a rewording of Shard's "Anti-magic is much stronger than reflection" and a wordy way to say "lol noob"
Ru's aura is also meaningless then, I guess?
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duvessa wrote:Ru's aura prevents attacks from hitting you.
duvessa wrote:Reflection only affects attacks that already didn't hit you because you blocked them with SH. Yes, this CAN result in the monster dying faster and therefore getting fewer attacks, but this doesn't happen very often unless you are failing to use corners against archers (which is sloppy play), and it especially doesn't happen often against ancient liches - why you would mention crystal spear in a pro-reflection argument is beyond me, since reflecting a crystal spear requires putting yourself in a spot where you can potentially get hit by a crystal spear.
duvessa wrote:Also note that reflected projectiles keep their original to-hit, which means the projectiles you are most likely to reflect (ones with low to-hit) are also the projectiles that are least likely to actually hit a monster after being reflected.
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:We talk about enslavement being really good. Reflection is like periodically enslaving some monsters around you, against themselves... and it's bad?
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duvessa wrote:SH prevents attacks from hitting you.
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:We talk about enslavement being really good. Reflection is like periodically enslaving some monsters around you, against themselves... and it's bad?
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Siegurt wrote:the significance of having more hps at the end of a combat is highly variable
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:Siegurt wrote:the significance of having more hps at the end of a combat is highly variable
what the... Oh, I did not know that ending a fight with negative hps is often insignificant :/
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Siegurt wrote:There is never a situation in which reflection would rationally cause you to not have hps below 0, unless you are really really bad at crawl.
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dynast wrote:Siegurt wrote:There is never a situation in which reflection would rationally cause you to not have hps below 0, unless you are really really bad at crawl.
Man, thats dynast's level of "git gud" argument. Come on man ,you are better than that.
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Shtopit wrote:The thing I like of the AM vs Reflection argument is that they do not exclude each other (although I understand the meta implications of the discussion).
I get what is being said about SH saving your hide and Reflection not doing that. At the same time, one could say: but don't attacks also have a slightly randomized chance of hitting? I personally see Reflection as giving an auxiliary ranged attack which triggers only in certain circumstances. It has its uses, for example, in the Snake Pit, where you can poison nagas without even noticing, or in the Shoals, where a melee build could have problems advancing in water, or blowing up spiders while they keep their distance. Yes, if it saves your life by shortening the time the javeliner spends throwing stuff at you, then it means that you did something wrong. But it still is a helpful mechanic which makes the game faster and, to me, funnier.
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Siegurt wrote:extra damage... isn't something that will save your life
Siegurt wrote:you can't use it as a defense or as a reliable offense
Siegurt wrote:does reflection provide a cure for this disease?
TonberryJam wrote:All I know is when I encounter packs of ranged or big things with big rocks I just wait in spot and they all die fast from reflection.
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HardboiledGargoyle wrote:It is an offensive trait - it helps you kill monsters faster.
Do you mean to say that nobody would die from low slaying/enchantment
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:Well then, I guess, slaying sucks!
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Siegurt wrote:No one said that slaying, or even reflection "sucks" or is even bad, only that it doesn't prevent you from dying in the immediate sense.
Siegurt wrote:3. Does it mitigate the damage done from a given combat? - i would say yes
...
By comparison, SH ... also reduces damage taken.
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gammafunk wrote:Mod note: Split from the GDD post about reworking amulet of rage since these have become off-topic to that thread. If someone wants to make a proposal wrt reflection based on discussed ideas, please following the GDD guidelines.
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