YAVP - VpEn of Ashenzari

Monday, 27th June 2016, 15:17 by ajon

I have a +1 dagger of venom and jus acquired a +5 quick blade with no brand. Only have like 9.5 skill so the quick blade is min delay. Is it definitely better than poison brand in early dungeon? I also have a cloak with saly +3 on my shopping list so it will definitely shine later, just need to get a brand scroll.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 15:33 by Magipi

Wait a minute... Sif Muna for an enchanter? Why?

Monday, 27th June 2016, 15:43 by ajon

I wanted to try something different. Thought maybe branching off into magic would be a good idea.

I have a couple options spell wise. If anyone cares to check out my list of books, any advice would be helpful. I'm currently leaning air because I have access to tornado and other high level air in a book in a shop. But I could also go ice for bolt, cloud, and simulacron.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 15:49 by Sandman25

I recently played VpEn of Sif Muna after a recommendation and can confirm that it is very powerful combo. MP channeling is awesome for species who cannot starve but can transform into crazy fast creature when hungry, Discord with high failure rate, Invisibility, summon spells, support spells like Haste, RMsl etc.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 16:05 by ajon

So I should focus on summon spells more than other conjurations for damage? I don't think I have any summon access yet, does Sif also gift necromancy spells or would that impede on Kiku?

Monday, 27th June 2016, 16:32 by Siegurt

Sif doesn't care, he gifts whatever spell books he feels like, kiku doesn't scare him (much).

Monday, 27th June 2016, 17:00 by ajon

Hmmm. +3 buckler (rCorr +blink) few extra shield and blink which I likely wont even use often or
+1 knuckler of rF - takes me to rF+++ and I also have rC+++ but is the extra pip of rF better than +blink, rCorr and 2 SH?

Monday, 27th June 2016, 17:05 by Sandman25

With Sif Muna you can be whatever. Vp is a bad conjurer because of -3 aptitude in conjurations. Also when I was noticed and couldn't stab, I used summons as meat shields and escaped (or just spectated the monster dying while I was channeling mana).

Monday, 27th June 2016, 17:12 by ajon

Got it. Looks like I found a book with summon shadow creatures now. No invisibility though. I have snake and shoals... looking like it might be a bad time getting lair runes. Sharpshooters seem to have really high MR and shoals... just dicey with low AC I think.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 18:14 by ajon

Is it worth it to start crosstraining the +5 demon blade of freezing after I get shadow creatures online or should I just stick with my poison quick blade? I almost think the demon blade will perform better against heavily armored foes but I'm not sure considering I do have some slaying.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-809-g2f88ffd (webtiles) character file. mahalanobis the Bewitcher (Vampire Enchanter) Turns: 36300, Time: 02:46:34 Health: 107/126 AC: 23 Str: 9 XL: 16 Next: 50% Magic: 20/22 EV: 22 Int: 23 God: Sif Muna [******] Gold: 1499 SH: 9 Dex: 24 Spells: 9 memorised, 1 level left rFire + . . SeeInvis + f - +7 quick blade (venom) rCold + + . Gourm . K - +5 ring mail of Qata {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} rNeg + + + Faith . z - +3 buckler of the Trout {+Blink rCorr} rPois + Spirit . x - +2 helmet rElec + Dismiss . R - +3 cloak of Zynuskik {rF+ Slay+2} rCorr + Reflect . e - +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" {rElec MR+ Str+2} SustAt . Harm . B - +2 pair of boots MR ++... (no amulet) Stlth +++++++... Q - +2 ring of protection y - +3 ring of evasion @: very slightly contaminated, regenerating slowly, very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy A: fangs 3, see invisible, agile 2, cold resistance 1, low mp 2, unbreathing a: Bat Form, Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink You are on level 2 of the Snake Pit. You worship Sif Muna. Sif Muna is exalted by your worship. You are very thirsty. You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 29 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth. You have collected 2630 gold pieces. You have spent 1131 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons d - a +5 demon blade of freezing f - a +7 quick blade of venom (weapon) D - a +1 dagger of venom Missiles N - 5 throwing nets (quivered) Armour e - the +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" (worn) {rElec MR+ Str+2} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) It affects your strength (+2). It insulates you from electricity. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. u - a +1 buckler of fire resistance x - a +2 helmet (worn) z - the +3 buckler of the Trout (worn) {+Blink rCorr} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon) It lets you blink. It protects you from acid and corrosion. B - a +2 pair of boots (worn) I - a +1 robe of resistance K - the +5 ring mail of Qata (worn) {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} (You found it on level 1 of the Shoals) It affects your dexterity (+4). It protects you from negative energy. It protects you from acid and corrosion. R - the +3 cloak of Zynuskik (worn) {rF+ Slay+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon) It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2). It protects you from fire. Jewellery n - an uncursed ring of protection from magic y - a +3 ring of evasion (left hand) Q - a +2 ring of protection (right hand) Wands j - a wand of hasting (5/9) l - a wand of teleportation (3/9) p - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 2} q - a wand of paralysis E - a wand of slowing H - a wand of iceblast {zapped: 5} J - a wand of teleportation (6/9) L - a wand of iceblast {zapped: 9} P - a wand of confusion S - a wand of paralysis U - a wand of digging {empty} V - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 4} Scrolls b - 3 scrolls of identify g - 2 scrolls of recharging h - 14 scrolls of remove curse i - a scroll of silence r - 2 scrolls of fog O - 9 scrolls of teleportation Z - 2 scrolls of magic mapping Potions a - 7 potions of blood k - 6 potions of flight m - 5 potions of lignification s - a potion of might v - 13 potions of curing w - 2 potions of cure mutation A - a potion of ambrosia C - 3 potions of cancellation G - 7 potions of brilliance M - a potion of haste X - a potion of resistance Books c - a book of Air Spells Type Level a - Shock Conjuration/Air 1 b - Swiftness Charms/Air 2 c - Repel Missiles Charms/Air 2 d - Static Discharge Conjuration/Air 3 e - Lightning Bolt Conjuration/Air 5 Skills: - Level 11.6 Fighting - Level 9.4 Short Blades - Level 11.3 Dodging - Level 14.3 Stealth - Level 4.4 Shields - Level 8.1 Spellcasting - Level 0.9 Conjurations - Level 16.4 Hexes - Level 8.2 Charms * Level 7.4 Summonings - Level 8.3 Necromancy - Level 5.3 Ice Magic - Level 7.5 Air Magic - Level 5.2 Invocations You have one spell level left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex ######. 1% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice ###### 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ######.. 1% 3 None d - Tukima's Dance Hex ######.. 1% 3 None e - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex #####. 1% 3 None f - Lightning Bolt Conj/Air ####...... 89% 5 #####.. g - Spectral Weapon Hex/Chrm ######.. 1% 3 None h - Animate Dead Necr N/A 10% 4 ###.... i - Shadow Creatures Summ N/A 98% 6 ######. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (14/15) Temple (1/1) D:6 Lair (6/6) D:10 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3 Snake (2/4) Lair:2 Slime (0/5) Lair:5 Orc (2/2) D:11 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults: D:13-14 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Gozag Hepliaklqana Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Pakellas Qazlal Ru Sif Muna Trog Uskayaw Vehumet Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:4 [ D:7 ! D:10 : D:13 * Orc:2 ([=! Shoals:1 [ Annotations: D:3 melon's ghost, amateur MfSk Lair:1 exclusion: electric eel Lair:6 exclusion: 3 doors Shoals:4 Ilsuiw Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You heal slowly. You have razor-sharp teeth. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv) You can survive without breathing. You are very agile. (Dex +4) Your flesh is cold resistant. (rC+) Your magical capacity is very low. (-20% MP) Message History Yer black mamba zombie bites tha naga mage. Tha naga mage points at ye an' mumbles some strange words. Ye resist wit' almost nay effort. Ye hit tha naga mage but do nay damage. Ye bite tha naga mage, but do nay damage. Tha naga mage be heavily wounded. Yer black mamba zombie bites tha naga mage. Ye hit tha naga mage. Tha naga mage be severely wounded. Yer spectral weapon misses tha naga mage. Tha naga mage casts a spell at ye. Ye resist wit' almost nay effort. Ye hit tha naga mage. Tha naga mage be almost dead. Yer black mamba zombie bites tha naga mage! Tha naga mage dies! Nay target in view! Nay target in view! Nay target in view! Ye swap places.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 18:25 by Sandman25

My plan would be to get the demon blade to min delay for Zot.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 18:29 by ajon

yeah, I think it will definitely shine there. Before that point, I can either dip into necromancy or ice. shadow creatures is getting into the castable range. On Snake 3 currently and I'm pretty stoked about a reflection amulet. I was getting tore up by a band of merfolk throwing shit on shoals 4. It was the open map and I was running out of options.

EDIT - Sif just granted me invisibility which I replaced lightning with. Looks like my midgame just got a lot easier.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 18:33 by Sandman25

If you have one rune, you don't need to enter Shoals, I often do it after Vaults 4.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 18:43 by ajon

Shoals was easier than snake this time. A lot of tough snake monsters have more MR I think which made tukimas and confusion much harder to use to thin out groups. Just snagged the shoals rune. Invis + reflection cleaned up. Snagged an electric double sword too. Though I'm not sure its worth it over the ice demon blade at the point where I plan to actually use it.

Two questions:
1) how much invo is appropriate for Sif? Is it ever worth it to get beyond like 8 or so?
2) I have a manual of stealth in a shop for 1545 gold and a ring (rC+ MR+ Int+2 Slay+3) for 948. Current stealth is 14.9 going into vaults and I have 669 gold. (I feel like the next part of this should be "in what city would the trains meet?") Is it in my best interest to get the ring first considering vaults and slaying?

Monday, 27th June 2016, 20:49 by ajon

Curious about spells at this point of the game. I have 3 runes, I got banished in vaults and came across the rune on my way out which was quite wonderful.

I am considering whether I should forget passage of golubria. I pretty much never use it, though maybe I should be? I'm not entirely sure how. Also should I replace it with C blink?

Should I learn haste or D missile in stead? Or should I pump more summoning and get summon ugly things online and drop shadow creatures and animate dead?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-809-g2f88ffd (webtiles) character file. mahalanobis the Bewitcher (Vampire Enchanter) Turns: 67830, Time: 04:46:44 Health: 174/174 AC: 31 Str: 13 XL: 22 Next: 60% Magic: 38/38 EV: 21 Int: 32 God: Sif Muna [******] Gold: 1433 SH: 9 Dex: 20 Spells: 9 memorised, 4 levels left rFire + . . SeeInvis + f - +9 quick blade (venom) rCold + + + Gourm . K - +5 ring mail of Qata {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} rNeg + + + Faith . p - +0 buckler {AC+3} rPois + Spirit . b - +2 hat of Teut {Regen+ Str+4} rElec + Dismiss . R - +3 cloak of Zynuskik {rF+ Slay+2} rCorr + Reflect + e - +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" {rElec MR+ Str+2} SustAt . Harm . B - +2 pair of boots MR ++++. W - amulet "Xoaqolu" {Reflect Int+4 SH+3} Stlth ++++++++.. P - ring of Figh {rC+ MR+ Int+2 Slay+3} E - +5 ring of protection @: very slightly contaminated, regenerating slowly, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, extraordinarily stealthy A: fangs 3, rugged brown scales 1, see invisible, mutation resistance 1, unbreathing, subdued magic 1 a: Bat Form, Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion }: 3/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, abyssal You are on level 3 of the Depths. You worship Sif Muna. Sif Muna is exalted by your worship. You are near bloodless. You have visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and seen 44 of its levels. You have visited the Abyss 1 time. You have visited 1 bazaar. You have also visited: Labyrinth. You have collected 4910 gold pieces. You have spent 3477 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons f - a +9 quick blade of venom (weapon) y - a +7 demon blade of freezing U - a +2 double sword of electrocution Missiles N - 8 throwing nets (quivered) Armour b - the +2 hat of Teut (worn) {Regen+ Str+4} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Vaults) It affects your strength (+4). It increases your rate of regeneration. e - the +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" (worn) {rElec MR+ Str+2} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) It affects your strength (+2). It insulates you from electricity. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. p - a +0 buckler of protection (worn) B - a +2 pair of boots (worn) K - the +5 ring mail of Qata (worn) {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} (You found it on level 1 of the Shoals) It affects your dexterity (+4). It protects you from negative energy. It protects you from acid and corrosion. R - the +3 cloak of Zynuskik (worn) {rF+ Slay+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon) It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2). It protects you from fire. Jewellery E - a +5 ring of protection (left hand) P - the ring of Figh (right hand) {rC+ MR+ Int+2 Slay+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Snake Pit) [ring of protection from magic] It affects your intelligence (+2). It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3). It protects you from cold. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. W - the amulet "Xoaqolu" (around neck) {Reflect Int+4 SH+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Snake Pit) [amulet of reflection] It shields you and reflects attacks. It affects your intelligence (+4). It affects your SH (+3). Wands c - a wand of acid j - a wand of hasting (1/9) l - a wand of teleportation (2/9) n - a wand of paralysis s - a wand of teleportation (4/9) t - a wand of digging (8/24) x - a wand of teleportation (3/9) H - a wand of acid I - a wand of disintegration V - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 4} Y - a wand of heal wounds (4/9) Scrolls d - a scroll of summoning g - 3 scrolls of recharging h - 19 scrolls of remove curse i - a scroll of silence o - a scroll of blinking r - 5 scrolls of fog u - 5 scrolls of identify F - 2 scrolls of fear O - 10 scrolls of teleportation Z - a scroll of magic mapping Potions a - 10 potions of blood k - 8 potions of flight v - 16 potions of curing w - 2 potions of cure mutation A - 3 potions of ambrosia C - 3 potions of cancellation D - a potion of haste G - 11 potions of brilliance L - a potion of agility T - a potion of invisibility X - 4 potions of resistance Books m - Sif Muna's Tome of Calling (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 3 of the Depths) Spells Type Level a - Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3 b - Summon Demon Summoning 5 c - Monstrous Menagerie Summoning 7 d - Summon Horrible Things Summoning 8 q - a book of Enchantments Spells Type Level a - Cause Fear Hexes 4 b - Yara's Violent Unravelling Hexes/Transmutation 5 c - Silence Hexes/Air 5 d - Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 6 e - Haste Charms 6 f - Discord Hexes 8 z - Sif Muna's Handbook of Bewitching Good Luck (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Depths) Spells Type Level a - Infusion Charms 1 b - Song of Slaying Charms 2 c - Shroud of Golubria Charms/Translocation 2 d - Leda's Liquefaction Hexes/Earth 4 e - Haste Charms 6 J - Sif Muna's Reference Book on the Unstable Compass (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 2 of the Depths) Spells Type Level a - Spider Form Transmutation/Poison 3 b - Force Lance Conjuration/Translocation 4 c - Petrify Transmutation/Earth 4 d - Controlled Blink Translocation 8 Miscellaneous M - 3 phantom mirrors Skills: - Level 13.2 Fighting - Level 9.4(14.0) Short Blades - Level 15.4(16.1) Long Blades - Level 5.5 Armour - Level 13.6 Dodging - Level 16.6 Stealth - Level 4.4 Shields * Level 12.6 Spellcasting Level 0.9 Conjurations - Level 20.3 Hexes - Level 10.1 Charms - Level 13.2 Summonings - Level 8.3 Necromancy - Level 5.5 Translocations Level 5.3 Ice Magic - Level 7.5 Air Magic - Level 8.2 Invocations - Level 6.0 Evocations You have 4 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Passage of Golubria Tloc N/A 4% 4 None b - Discord Hex #######... 8% 8 ####### c - Confuse Hex #######. 0% 3 None d - Tukima's Dance Hex #######. 0% 3 None e - Silence Hex/Air ######.... 1% 5 None f - Invisibility Hex #######. 1% 6 ####... g - Spectral Weapon Hex/Chrm ######.. 0% 3 None h - Animate Dead Necr N/A 1% 4 None i - Shadow Creatures Summ N/A 2% 6 ####...

Monday, 27th June 2016, 20:53 by Sandman25

Passage of Golubria is very good except it is easy to forget to use it. I wouldn't train Invo high with the character and would go for Haste, should be cheap with that Int and Sif.

Monday, 27th June 2016, 22:59 by ajon

and YASD. Was just about in the orb chamber itself when Two guardians came out, and I figured I could take them, then a third came so I started to go to the chokepoint where the lungs are and draconians came from that direction and trapped me. Got killed when I tried to read teleport. I apparently forgot that I had blink. Though with their breaths, they might have got me anyways. I was so close to having the orb. Tried to ninja it once when I was having a hard time with OoF but that didn't work, had to spend a lot of time luring and running to get enemies 1v1 and then when its almost mine... I die to something stupid. Le Sigh. Well, learning opportunity. Maybe ill try a different god next time. channeling was nice. spellbooks awesome but maybe something else would work well too.

Any suggestions are always welcome.

dump

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-809-g2f88ffd (webtiles) character file. 593921 mahalanobis the Imperceptible (level 26, -8/215 HPs) Began as a Vampire Enchanter on June 27, 2016. Was the Champion of Sif Muna. Mangled by an Orb Guardian (29 damage) ... on level 5 of the Realm of Zot. The game lasted 06:22:25 (88833 turns). mahalanobis the Imperceptible (Vampire Enchanter) Turns: 88833, Time: 06:22:25 Health: -8/215 AC: 30 Str: 15 XL: 26 Next: 29% Magic: 41/41 EV: 27 Int: 33 God: Sif Muna [******] Gold: 456 SH: 12 Dex: 21 Spells: 11 memorised, 3 levels left rFire + + . SeeInvis + f - +9 quick blade (elec) rCold + . . Gourm . K - +5 ring mail of Qata {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} rNeg + + . Faith . z - +3 buckler {rF+} rPois . Spirit . b - +2 hat of Teut {Regen+ Str+4} rElec + Dismiss . R - +3 cloak of Zynuskik {rF+ Slay+2} rCorr + Reflect + e - +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" {rElec MR+ Str+2} SustAt . Harm . B - +2 pair of boots MR ++++. W - amulet "Xoaqolu" {Reflect Int+4 SH+3} Stlth +++++++++. P - ring of Figh {rC+ MR+ Int+2 Slay+3} E - +5 ring of protection @: about to teleport, very slightly contaminated, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, incredibly stealthy A: fangs 3, rugged brown scales 1, see invisible, strong 1, unbreathing a: Bat Form, Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion }: 3/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, abyssal You were on level 5 of the Realm of Zot. You worshipped Sif Muna. Sif Muna was exalted by your worship. You were not thirsty. You visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and saw 52 of its levels. You visited the Abyss 1 time. You visited 1 bazaar. You also visited: Labyrinth. You collected 6270 gold pieces. You spent 5814 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons f - a +9 quick blade of electrocution (weapon) y - a +7 demon blade of freezing U - a +3 double sword of electrocution Missiles N - 10 throwing nets (quivered) Armour b - the +2 hat of Teut (worn) {Regen+ Str+4} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Vaults) It affects your strength (+4). It increases your rate of regeneration. e - the +0 pair of gloves "Oprix" (worn) {rElec MR+ Str+2} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) It affects your strength (+2). It insulates you from electricity. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. p - a +3 buckler of protection z - a +3 buckler of fire resistance (worn) B - a +2 pair of boots (worn) K - the +5 ring mail of Qata (worn) {rN+ rCorr Dex+4} (You found it on level 1 of the Shoals) It affects your dexterity (+4). It protects you from negative energy. It protects you from acid and corrosion. Q - a +2 robe of resistance R - the +3 cloak of Zynuskik (worn) {rF+ Slay+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon) It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2). It protects you from fire. Jewellery m - a +4 ring of dexterity {unknown} o - a +4 ring of dexterity {unknown} q - a cursed ring of loudness {unknown} E - a +5 ring of protection (left hand) P - the ring of Figh (right hand) {rC+ MR+ Int+2 Slay+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Snake Pit) [ring of protection from magic] It affects your intelligence (+2). It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3). It protects you from cold. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. V - an uncursed ring of poison resistance {unknown} W - the amulet "Xoaqolu" (around neck) {Reflect Int+4 SH+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Snake Pit) [amulet of reflection] It shields you and reflects attacks. It affects your intelligence (+4). It affects your SH (+3). Wands a - a wand of digging (3/24) c - a wand of acid (6/15) g - a wand of heal wounds (0/9) j - a wand of hasting (2/9) l - a wand of iceblast (10/15) t - a wand of digging (8/24) x - a wand of teleportation (0/9) H - a wand of acid (6/15) I - a wand of disintegration (15/24) J - a wand of teleportation (6/9) Y - a wand of heal wounds (0/9) Scrolls d - 3 scrolls of summoning h - 24 scrolls of remove curse i - a scroll of silence r - 6 scrolls of fog F - 2 scrolls of fear O - 9 scrolls of teleportation Potions k - 10 potions of flight n - 7 potions of blood v - 17 potions of curing w - 3 potions of cure mutation A - 3 potions of ambrosia C - 2 potions of cancellation G - 12 potions of brilliance T - 3 potions of invisibility X - a potion of resistance Miscellaneous M - 4 phantom mirrors Skills: * Level 17.4 Fighting - Level 9.4(14.0) Short Blades - Level 15.4(16.1) Long Blades * Level 12.7 Armour * Level 19.1 Dodging - Level 24.5 Stealth - Level 4.4 Shields - Level 14.0 Spellcasting Level 0.9 Conjurations - Level 20.3 Hexes - Level 10.1 Charms - Level 13.2 Summonings - Level 8.3 Necromancy - Level 5.5 Translocations Level 5.3 Ice Magic - Level 7.5 Air Magic - Level 8.2 Invocations - Level 6.0 Evocations You had 3 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Passage of Golubria Tloc N/A 3% 4 None b - Discord Hex ########.. 6% 8 ######. c - Confuse Hex ######## 0% 3 None d - Tukima's Dance Hex ######## 0% 3 None e - Silence Hex/Air #######... 1% 5 None f - Invisibility Hex ######## 1% 6 ###.... g - Spectral Weapon Hex/Chrm #######. 1% 3 None h - Animate Dead Necr N/A 1% 4 None i - Shadow Creatures Summ N/A 1% 6 ###.... j - Haste Chrm ######.. 10% 6 ###.... k - Blink Tloc N/A 1% 2 None

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 00:01 by Sandman25

Try Dith if you are going for the same combo. Your stealth will be insane, you will get double chance to confuse targets and having a panic button is always nice. Or Kiku if you want something more standard and powerful.

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 00:10 by ajon

Is Kiku's main strength in her corpse delivery and animate dead/cingotuvi's for minions or armor?

I like Dith but I used him on SpEn and wanted to do something different. This was before the change that lowered the damage on dazzling spray. I don't know if it was good before or how much it was lowered, but the shadow shard he fired made it deal decent enough damage for low cost even into the late game when I did use him.

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 01:55 by Sandman25

Kiku's main strength is zombies, they deal with monsters you cannot stab. Also pain branded quickblade or even short sword is very good for conventional melee.

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 02:17 by ajon

hmm on current one, I found poison short sword, vampiric dagger, and drain dagger, not sure which is best for enchant scrolls. I'm thinking the vampiric is kind of useless on a dagger, drain is nice but poison seems to also work well especially when you need to run.

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 04:00 by Sandman25

Draining is better, it deals more damage, works on more monsters and reduces incoming damage

Tuesday, 28th June 2016, 10:25 by ajon

Many thanks

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 01:05 by ajon

Since I don't have a quick blade yet. Would it be better to:
1) Wait for one since I have drain dagger
2) brand +5 rapier w Kiku
3) brand +6 dagger w Kiku

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 01:08 by Sandman25

If you have rapier at min delay, then brand it.
If you are not going to get Short Blades 14, then branding short sword or dagger is better. Just make sure you have the branded weapon at min delay.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 01:41 by ajon

... Found a quick blade like 10 mins later haha what uh luck

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 02:39 by ajon

Feeling a bit underpowered in some situations. No invisibility and no animate dead. Death Channel is ok I guess but the results so far have been underwhelming compared to its cost. Any advice on what to improve?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-816-geccf914 (webtiles) character file. mahalanobis the Lord of Darkness (VpEn) Turns: 44966, Time: 02:34:52 Health: 120/120 AC: 22 Str: 7 XL: 16 Next: 43% Magic: 28/28 EV: 17 Int: 25 God: Kikubaaqudgha [******] Gold: 1622 SH: 0 Dex: 14 Spells: 8 memorised, 3 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis + V - +8 rapier (pain) rCold + + . Gourm . Y - +0 mottled dragon armour rNeg + + . Faith + (no shield) rPois + Spirit . K - +2 hat rElec . Dismiss . C - +2 cloak {MR+} rCorr . Reflect . W - +0 pair of gloves SustAt . Harm . n - +1 pair of boots MR ++... B - amulet of faith Stlth ++++++.... T - ring of protection from cold S - +4 ring of protection @: regenerating slowly, very resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing a: Bat Form, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion You are on level 1 of the Orcish Mines. You worship Kikubaaqudgha. Kikubaaqudgha is exalted by your worship. You are very thirsty. You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer, Ossuary and Ice Cave. You have collected 2166 gold pieces. You have spent 544 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons f - a +1 short sword of venom o - a +6 dagger of draining D - a +0 quick blade V - a +8 rapier of pain (weapon) Missiles a - 7 throwing nets (quivered) Armour b - a +2 leather armour of fire resistance h - a +0 helmet l - a +2 robe of magic resistance n - a +1 pair of boots (worn) z - a storm dragon hide {Bai Suzhen} C - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn) K - a +2 hat (worn) W - a +0 pair of gloves (worn) Y - a +0 mottled dragon armour (worn) Jewellery B - an amulet of faith (around neck) G - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion S - a +4 ring of protection (left hand) T - a ring of protection from cold (right hand) Wands i - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 5} j - a wand of paralysis s - a wand of enslavement u - a wand of confusion H - a wand of disintegration L - a wand of polymorph M - a wand of confusion N - a wand of digging {zapped: 4} O - a wand of acid {empty} Q - a wand of lightning R - a wand of lightning U - a wand of hasting (0/9) Scrolls d - a scroll of blinking e - 8 scrolls of teleportation t - 11 scrolls of remove curse v - 6 scrolls of recharging w - 3 scrolls of fear x - a scroll of amnesia y - 6 scrolls of fog Potions c - 15 potions of blood g - 2 potions of ambrosia k - 5 potions of flight q - a potion of invisibility r - 5 potions of curing A - 2 potions of brilliance E - 2 potions of cancellation F - 3 potions of cure mutation Skills: - Level 9.5 Fighting - Level 14.1 Short Blades - Level 10.0 Armour - Level 11.6 Dodging * Level 13.1 Stealth - Level 8.1 Spellcasting * Level 12.6 Hexes - Level 14.7 Necromancy You have 3 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Cigotuvi's Embrace Necr ######.... 1% 5 ####... b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice #####. 1% 2 None c - Confuse Hex ######.. 1% 3 None d - Tukima's Dance Hex ######.. 1% 3 None e - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex #####. 2% 3 None f - Pain Necr #### 1% 1 None g - Bolt of Draining Conj/Necr #####..... 17% 5 ####... h - Death Channel Necr ######.... 4% 6 ######. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/15) Temple (1/1) D:7 Lair (6/6) D:8 Shoals (3/4) Lair:3 Spider (1/4) Lair:4 Slime (0/5) Lair:6 Orc (2/2) D:9 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults: D:13-14 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Okawaru Pakellas Qazlal Ru Uskayaw Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:3 } D:9 [ Orc:2 ** Shoals:1 ? Annotations: D:13 Frances Lair:1 exclusion: 2 oklob plants Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You heal slowly. You have razor-sharp teeth. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv) You can survive without breathing. Message History Thar be a staircase ta tha Lair 'ere. (D) Dungeon (T) Temple (L) Lair (A) Shoals (N) Spider Nest (M) Slime Pits (O) Orcish Mines (E) Elv'n Halls Where ta? (Enter - Lair:1 @ (x,y), ? - help) What level o' tha Orcish Mines? (default 1, ? - help) Ye see 'ere a potion o' berserk rage. Ye hear a distant blarin' wail ta tha northaast. Thar be a stone staircase leadin' down 'ere. Ye climb downwards. Thar be a stone staircase leadin' up 'ere. Ye see 'ere a short sword. Ye see 'ere a scale mail. Thar be an op'n door 'ere. Thar be a staircase ta tha Orcish Mines 'ere. Ye climb downwards. Welcome ta tha Orcish Mines! Thar be a staircase back ta tha Dungeon 'ere. Ye be feelin' very thirsty. Ye cannae go down 'ere! Char dumped successfully. Save game an' 'sit?

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 03:36 by Sandman25

Well, you can get a couple of levels in Conjurations, should be cheap even with -3 aptitude and will help with Bolt of Draining miscast chance. Also make sure to check all magical staves, staff of Necromancy/Conjuration can be useful.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 03:55 by ajon

Ahh ended up snagging book with animate dead from orc and one with haste for later. I got webbed in spider though and was not able to manage the situation as well as I would have hoped. I failed to confuse with like 60 some or 70 percent chance several times in a row. A well. I did end up giving death channel another chance. It seems like it can be useful if you can get a horde going and keep reanimating the corpses. Ill have to try Kiku again I think. you think the mottled was a good choice over the robe?

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 04:42 by rchandra

In most situations dragon armours are quite awful until you can enchant them (and maybe train armour some). Here I'd definitely prefer a robe to mottled - unsure after say +4 mottled or so, but at +0 it's no contest.

e: rF leather might be better than the robe? or maybe not.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 05:23 by TonberryJam

hexes and summons are good together. Everything looks nice. I'd think to shore up summonings some more. Shadow Creatures is nice since it scales with monster HD. Maybe a short term nuker like Hyrdas or Dragons. A long duration summon like demons. And summon butterflies is always helpful. Of course, abjuration for the demons would be needed.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 10:04 by Sprucery

Death Channel is really really good with crowds and combined with Bolt of Draining. You can fire draining bolts through your spectral things (and zombies and skeletons of course) and build up your army while hiding behind allies.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 12:21 by Sandman25

I assume robe of archmagi hasn't generated, it's the best body armour for En.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 13:14 by ajon

Nope. Havent seen one yet on any of the games.

Current just found a demon blade of electrocution. I'm training up long blades for it now. crosstraining helps too. Should I hold off on pain branding until I find a quick blade in this scenario?

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-824-gecd09e6 (webtiles) character file. mahalanobis the Jinx (Vampire Enchanter) Turns: 19294, Time: 01:07:30 Health: 101/101 AC: 12 Str: 12 XL: 13 Next: 9% Magic: 28/28 EV: 19 Int: 23 God: Kikubaaqudgha [*****.] Gold: 420 SH: 8 Dex: 14 Spells: 6 memorised, 7 levels left rFire + . . SeeInvis + T - +3 demon blade (elec) rCold + + . Gourm . U - +2 troll leather armour {rC+} rNeg + + . Faith . V - +0 buckler rPois + Spirit . Y - +0 helmet "Tivikire" {MR+ Str+5} rElec . Dismiss . r - +0 cloak rCorr . Reflect + l - +1 pair of gloves SustAt . Harm . M - +0 pair of boots MR ++... g - +3 amulet of reflection Stlth +++++..... m - ring of magical power A - ring of protection from fire @: regenerating slowly, very resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy A: fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing a: Bat Form, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion You are on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Kikubaaqudgha. Kikubaaqudgha is extremely pleased with you. You are very thirsty. You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 16 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth, Bailey and Ice Cave. You have collected 681 gold pieces. You have spent 261 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons i - a +2 dagger of speed x - a +0 rapier z - a +3 dagger of venom J - a +0 short sword of venom T - a +3 demon blade of electrocution (weapon) Armour l - a +1 pair of gloves (worn) r - a +0 cloak (worn) u - a +0 leather armour of fire resistance M - a +0 pair of boots (worn) U - a +2 troll leather armour of cold resistance (worn) V - a +0 buckler (worn) X - a +1 helmet of see invisible Y - the +0 helmet "Tivikire" (worn) {MR+ Str+5} (You found it in a labyrinth) It affects your strength (+5). It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. Z - a +1 robe of fire resistance Magical Staves a - an uncursed staff of poison Jewellery g - a +3 amulet of reflection (around neck) m - a ring of magical power (right hand) q - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion y - a dented malachite amulet A - a ring of protection from fire (left hand) Wands p - a wand of digging {recharged} F - a wand of lightning I - a wand of enslavement Q - a wand of confusion R - a wand of paralysis W - a wand of digging Scrolls e - 6 scrolls of remove curse f - 3 scrolls of immolation h - 2 scrolls of fog k - a scroll of fear B - 2 scrolls of amnesia C - 3 scrolls of teleportation L - a scroll of blinking Potions b - a potion of haste d - 2 potions of blood j - 3 potions of curing n - a potion of ambrosia o - 2 potions of cancellation s - 4 potions of flight v - 3 potions of brilliance E - a sedimented amethyst potion H - a fuming puce potion K - a potion of heal wounds O - a lumpy red potion Books c - a book of Maledictions Spells Type Level a - Corona Hexes 1 b - Ensorcelled Hibernation Hexes/Ice 2 c - Confuse Hexes 3 d - Tukima's Dance Hexes 3 e - Dazzling Spray Conjuration/Hexes 3 t - Kikubaaqudgha's Reference Book on Unholy Magic (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 3 of the Dungeon) Spells Type Level a - Animate Skeleton Necromancy 1 b - Corpse Rot Necromancy 2 c - Sublimation of Blood Necromancy 2 d - Vampiric Draining Necromancy 3 e - Control Undead Necromancy 4 w - Oddiwk's Arcane Secrets of Sorcery (You found it in a bailey) Spells Type Level a - Discord Hexes 8 D - Kikubaaqudgha's Guide on Evil Secrets (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 7 of the Dungeon) Spells Type Level a - Agony Necromancy 5 b - Cigotuvi's Embrace Necromancy 5 c - Dispel Undead Necromancy 5 d - Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 6 e - Death Channel Necromancy 6 G - a book of Enchantments Spells Type Level a - Cause Fear Hexes 4 b - Yara's Violent Unravelling Hexes/Transmutation 5 c - Silence Hexes/Air 5 d - Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 6 e - Haste Charms 6 f - Discord Hexes 8 N - a book of Beasts Spells Type Level a - Summon Butterflies Summoning 1 b - Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3 c - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning 4 d - Summon Mana Viper Hexes/Summoning 5 e - Summon Hydra Summoning 7 S - a book of Cantrips Spells Type Level a - Confusing Touch Hexes 1 b - Animate Skeleton Necromancy 1 c - Summon Small Mammal Summoning 1 d - Apportation Translocation 1 Skills: - Level 9.3 Fighting - Level 10.8(11.0) Short Blades * Level 2.1(6.7) Long Blades - Level 5.0 Armour - Level 11.3 Dodging - Level 9.2 Stealth - Level 4.2 Shields - Level 4.1 Spellcasting - Level 12.5 Hexes - Level 5.7 Necromancy - Level 2.0 Ice Magic You have 7 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Corona Hex ######. 1% 1 None b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice #####. 1% 2 #...... c - Confuse Hex ######.. 1% 3 ##..... d - Tukima's Dance Hex ######.. 1% 3 ##..... e - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex ####.. 3% 3 ##..... f - Animate Skeleton Necr N/A 1% 1 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (11/15) Temple (0/1) D:6 Lair (5/6) D:9 Swamp (0/4) Lair:3 Snake (0/4) Lair:3 Slime: Lair:5-6 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Ashenzari Hepliaklqana Kikubaaqudgha Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Pakellas Sif Muna Vehumet Shops: D:4 * D:7 * Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You heal slowly. You have razor-sharp teeth. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv) You can survive without breathing.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 13:42 by ajon

By the way, is the robe of augmentation worth using instead of my troll leather? I also have a +2 ring mail with rPois I found but I can just manage my hunger level for that I figure.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 14:10 by Sandman25

IMHO there is no rush with pain branding, that demon blade is a game end weapon and you have Kiku meaning you don't need any weapon to win.
I would use augmentation, regeneration is weak/useless at low satiation levels while with robe you will have more powerful spells, higher EV, higher stealth, higher chance to stab confused targets and even more damage with that demon blade.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 16:24 by ajon

Haaha... I couldn't leave well enough alone. After finally vanquishing Vashnia, I decided that Roka on the same floor had to be easier. Until I realized that he had a fire flail of holy wrath. I should have just went for the rune and left both of them be I think. I start off really careful because I need to be but then I loosen up once I start getting some basic stuff online for some reason. Maybe I just have to realize that this dude wont be melee material ever. No animate dead that run, really makes it hard to handle hard to hex opponents when Kiku screws me like that.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 16:52 by TonberryJam

If it's a 1v1 situation you can afford to spam hexes as low as ~20% success rate if you know you can flee from the monster. Usually means having a high powered swift spell or translocation magic. Not so much blink.

Tukima's Dance is nice to spam if you notice weapons on Uniques.

And that is why summons are nice for hexes. Gives you time to spam.

You had summon ice beasts. That is great to learn.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 16:56 by Sandman25

Vampire can use Bat Form for escaping, it's better than Swiftness/Blink. The trick is to recognize danger in advance because transforming when you are already below 50% HP is dangerous.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 17:01 by Sandman25

Another good god for VpEn is Ru if you are tired of Kiku. You can sacrifice major things like hand or armour and still be fine. Bat Form helps with being unable to read/quaff in danger.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 17:12 by ajon

Found D1 ash altar. Seems pretty good so far. using +2 ring mail of rF but wondering if I should use +2 robe of rF for more dodging and stealth boosts instead of dodging/armour.

Also, I found a bunch of summoning books and just took an elec d trident from maud. Currently I am using a +9 dagger of speed. Is it worth it to switch to tridents from the dagger? I could still hex and start bringing summons online.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 17:16 by Sandman25

Yes, Ash is the best god for switching, it helps via skill level increase and knowledge transfer.
Personally I would use robe but you seem to like melee playstyle so you can switch to become a hybrid easily.

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 17:18 by ajon

I melee because spells alone don't seem to be nearly as good. Easy stuff is hexable, everything else resists. Maybe ill hold off until after lair though. Most things there will be easily beatable with hexes and I have ice beasts and canine familiar up for the rest

Wednesday, 29th June 2016, 17:31 by Sandman25

Do you use Dazzling Spray and Tukima in addition to Confuse/EH? You can kite with those spells as Vp due to Bat Form and kill packs of Death Yaks and Skeleton Warriors. All fast monsters in Lair have low MR.

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 00:44 by ajon

yeah I love using tukimas. I tend to use it before confuse in a lot of scenarios. Dazzling is ok. I use it for death yaks when I can break them up which helps, but its not too reliable and past lair most things that seem to have high MR also have high HD. would be nice if it was more reliable dazzling. Big threats are bad for any school but I feel like hexes doesn't have an answer like iron shot/fireball/parrow, bolt spells.

Anyways. I'm still rolling with the ash follower. Considering if I should start to ditch the +9 speed dagger. It seems to be losing its efficiency some. My other options are a +4 distortion dagger, +0 disto short sword, or going for the +1 elec d trident. Have 3 EW scrolls I can use for them. Though maybe I'm not taking into account how often I'm hitting with it also. Maybe ill actually try fsim though its always a pain in the ass as I play online only now.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-830-gd2fbe1e (webtiles) character file. mahalanobis the Unseen (Vampire Enchanter) Turns: 27549, Time: 01:33:03 Health: 79/106 AC: 7 Str: 7 XL: 14 Next: 57% Magic: 33/33 EV: 24 Int: 23 God: Ashenzari [*****.] Gold: 1135 SH: 6 Dex: 20 Spells: 7 memorised, 1 level left rFire + . . SeeInvis + e - +9 dagger (speed) (curse) rCold + . . Gourm . b - +2 robe {rF+} (curse) rNeg + + . Faith . G - +0 buckler (curse) rPois + Spirit . (no helmet) rElec . Dismiss . q - +0 cloak (curse) rCorr . Reflect . B - +1 pair of gloves (curse) SustAt . Harm . (no boots) MR +.... Clarity + (no amulet) Stlth +++++++++. o - +6 ring of dexterity C - ring of magical power @: regenerating slowly, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, incredibly stealthy A: fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing a: Bat Form, Curse Item, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Ashenzari. Ashenzari is extremely pleased with you. You are very thirsty. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 21 of its levels. You have collected 1387 gold pieces. You have spent 252 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand Weapons e - a cursed +9 dagger of speed (weapon) h - a +1 demon trident of electrocution K - a +4 dagger of distortion S - a +0 short sword of distortion Missiles m - 2 throwing nets (quivered) Armour b - a cursed +2 robe of fire resistance (worn) q - a cursed +0 cloak (worn) t - a +2 ring mail of fire resistance B - a cursed +1 pair of gloves (worn) G - a cursed +0 buckler (worn) Jewellery o - a +6 ring of dexterity (right hand) z - an uncursed ring of wizardry C - a ring of magical power (left hand) Wands w - a wand of lightning {zapped: 5} y - a wand of lightning A - a wand of iceblast {zapped: 7} I - a wand of confusion {zapped: 6} N - a wand of acid O - a wand of enslavement Q - a wand of iceblast X - a wand of acid {zapped: 7} Z - a wand of iceblast Scrolls a - 3 scrolls of amnesia n - 6 scrolls of fog r - 6 scrolls of teleportation s - 4 scrolls of identify x - 4 scrolls of remove curse J - 3 scrolls of enchant weapon V - 3 scrolls of immolation Potions d - 8 potions of blood f - 3 potions of agility i - 5 potions of curing j - a potion of haste k - 3 potions of cancellation l - 2 potions of magic p - a potion of might u - 4 potions of brilliance v - 3 potions of invisibility D - 3 potions of flight P - a potion of cure mutation T - a potion of resistance Books c - a book of Beasts Spells Type Level a - Summon Butterflies Summoning 1 b - Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3 c - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning 4 d - Summon Mana Viper Hexes/Summoning 5 e - Summon Hydra Summoning 7 Skills: - Level 8.7 Fighting - Level 7.1(11.2) Short Blades - Level 5.0 Armour - Level 11.0(13.4) Dodging - Level 15.8(18.0) Stealth - Level 3.4(5.8) Shields * Level 7.0 Spellcasting - Level 14.6 Hexes - Level 10.0 Summonings - Level 6.5 Ice Magic You have one spell level left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Summon Demon Summ ######.... 4% 5 #####.. b - Aura of Abjuration Summ ######.... 4% 5 #####.. c - Confuse Hex ######.. 1% 3 None d - Tukima's Dance Hex ######.. 1% 3 None e - Dazzling Spray Conj/Hex #####. 1% 3 None f - Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summ #####... 2% 4 ###.... g - Call Canine Familiar Summ ######.. 1% 3 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (12/15) Temple (0/1) D:7 Lair (6/6) D:8 Shoals (0/4) Lair:2 Snake (1/4) Lair:3 Slime (0/5) Lair:5 Orc (2/2) D:12 Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Altars: Ashenzari Elyvilon Fedhas Gozag Hepliaklqana Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Ru Trog Uskayaw Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul The Shining One Shops: D:4 % D:7 } D:8 [%[* Annotations: D:12 Kirke Abyss:1 Psyche Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You heal slowly. You have razor-sharp teeth. You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv) You can survive without breathing.

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 04:35 by rchandra

You could curse the disto dagger, but personally I would swap between speed dagger and elec dtrident.

Time to lose CCF for mana viper?

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 12:30 by ajon

How good are mana vipers?

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 12:52 by Sandman25

Very good vs casters, ok vs everything else. Their main problem is limited amount (just 2) so they are best used near corners and not in the open.

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 14:50 by ajon

Hmm. I just grabbed shadow creatures. I could pick up MM, greater demon, or hydra instead of mana vipers if they are that soso. I'm working on summoning now though I might wait a few levels because there seems to be little need to overtrain summoning in most cases. Would it be better to hold off on MV? I just grabbed the shoals rune. Snake 3 has a lot of crap around all the stairs so I might go try orc again which had some warlords and the like right at the entrance before. Or maybe ill dip into Vaults for a bit.

I haven't yet switched to polearms. Stabbing was still a good option in shoals and if I recall, most things in vault are easily hexable too. As for using both daggers and polearms, that seems like a lot of exp I don't particularly want to spend especially since I would need them both unbound to switch. I guess I could still stab with d trident. It miht not be as good, but I bet it would still be pretty nice with elec and the range would work well with summons.

On a side note, a treasure trove wants half of my piety. I'm considering paying it as Ash seems pretty easy to gain piety with while exploring.

Thursday, 30th June 2016, 14:56 by Sandman25

I like mana vipers because they are easy to get castable as En. In my experience stabbing with anything that does not have short blades bonus is bad and you don't need to curse weapon with Ash. No curare?