CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Projects


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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 09:44

CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Projects

It's time for a new project! Crawl has some incredible stories through its history, and it is only appropriate to highlight some of the best and brightest of them all. I've started with the story of 78291's xl12 victory, the lowest-xl* character to ever win: http://imgur.com/a/rJhHk

There are many more stories to tell from all phases of Crawl's history. I'm always open to suggestions of what you'd like me to highlight next! In the meantime, enjoy the story, and happy Crawling.

UPDATE:
#2: Rob the Almost Pacifist: http://imgur.com/a/dow49
#3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth: http://imgur.com/a/Jsa8b

UPDATE:
I am crawling through real life as a backpacker/hitchhiker/adventurer for the next few months and blogging about it all. If you live around Colorado, Utah, or the surrounding states, feel free to message me and I'll let you know when I crawl through your town. I haven't posted about it here for the obvious reason that it's Not Crawl, but it's been my big project lately and that's why I've been so slack on getting #4 done. Once I get into the swing of things out here, I'd like to continue the Legends series if possible. At the very least, I'll finish the qw post.

If people are interested, I think it would be really fun to take suggestions from this forum for silly/Crawl-related/adventury things to do while I'm out here, then report back on the results. This is the forum I'm most familiar with and think I'd have the most fun doing something like that with, but since it's only tenuously connected to Crawl (okay: not connected at all unless we make it that way) I've been hesitant to do it here. It would probably have a tone and writing style much like the Crawl legends series, with the difference of being real-life adventure instead of Crawl adventure. Please let me know if I should post something about that (in a new thread, obviously) as a supplement to this series.

Until next time (not another 2 months from now, I promise)!

UPDATE, 2 years later:

lol
Last edited by Blade on Tuesday, 13th February 2018, 04:03, edited 6 times in total.

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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 11:37

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

This rules, do one for a 4.1 winner plz
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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 11:49

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

Glad they nerfed all that OP shit.
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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 13:03

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

Thanks! Awesome thread and game.
I'm always curious about extreme games like this one, but I can't bear DCSS' console graphics and use tyreecs to study them... yeah stupid lazy titles player here.

Anyway, what is about the lowest xl victory ever? I thought this one was the lowest one, but you mention another one in the opening, saying you'll cover it later; however you don't talk about it any more.

My request for another story is about the almost pacific victory one, with only 1 bat killed for a typo, albeit it I suspect it could be kinda boring.
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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 13:31

Blade wrote:I've started with the story of 78291's xl12 victory

I had a short look at your story and remember the old ASCII times before tiles were available. I played some crawl in these days but as victory dancing was very stupid I preferred to play angband. After victory dancing was gone crawl became interesting!

In the old ASCII times swamp was a very dangerous place because one wrong step into deep water could kill your char immediately! So you had to walk around - I didn't know that the initially cursed ring of teleportation could be useful in the game. As autoexplore didn't exist - or at least I didn't know it - *very* careful movement was necessary to look if you step on a light blue '{' (shallow water) or into a dark blue '{' (deep water and immediate death).

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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 17:02

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

nago wrote:Anyway, what is about the lowest xl victory ever? I thought this one was the lowest one, but you mention another one in the opening, saying you'll cover it later; however you don't talk about it any more.

Heh. That one was just cheese back when draining was permanent and so was Tomb of Doroklohe. He technically won at xl1. It was by another incredible player who will certainly get stories of his own sometime (perhaps the 4.1 win; he did that).

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Post Sunday, 28th February 2016, 21:53

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

Dying by draining on d:1 due to negative exp was the bomb :P
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Post Monday, 29th February 2016, 00:19

Re: Stories from Crawl History: 78291 the Infuser

I'm going to copy over some side information that I posted alongside this on /r/roguelikes. It's all more or less common knowledge stuff over here, but someone might find it useful:

One of the most eye-opening things in watching this run was a reminder of how much has changed--and, honestly, improved--about Crawl. This run was incredible, but admittedly, a lot of it was diving through very similar levels of the dungeon and vaults, full of monsters like brown frogs, brown snakes, and "interchangeable bag of hp #3." Since then, a lot has been done to further differentiate branches, add more significant threats before the end vaults of levels, and tighten things up in general. The introduction of the Depths, new monsters in Vaults, Swamp, and Snake, and a more open Vaults:5 layout would all increase the difficulty.

There are a few things other than dungeon layout that would change a run like this in modern Crawl. These include:

* the removal of divinations: no more Detect Creatures, which he used extensively
* the Hexes/Charms split from Enchantments, meaning he could not have both haste and invisibility that early
* changes to the orbrun and orb effects, meaning that a controlled blink he performed after picking the orb up would no longer be possible and increasing his likelihood of getting into tough spots on the way up
* the removal of evocable teleport, making the random teleportation strategies that formed the core of his run more difficult

As a result, other speedrun strategies have since taken over. The most effective is currently to play an optimized berserker. Sapher recently used this strategy for a 9,786-turn win, less than a third the length of this game. I may cover that one some time later.

That's not to say similar things to this run are impossible today, though they require a good deal of luck. I got a rune at xl12 recently using the same "run away from everything as a spriggan" techniques, and it would probably be theoretically possible to win sometime around xl14 or xl15 with a lot of care and luck.

Finally: here is the game's log: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/78291/morgue-78291-20090814-042736.txt

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 00:19

Re: [UPDATE] Stories from Crawl History: Rob the Almost Paci

Rob the Almost Pacifist
http://imgur.com/a/dow49

Hey, everyone! Stories from Crawl History is back, this time highlighting the story of Rob the Almost Pacifist (thanks for the suggestion, nago!). This game was a very different experience to the previous one I profiled, but satisfying and engaging in its own right. Doing a full-pacifist game is not easy. It is not fun. It is not anywhere close to fast and simple. There's a reason that Rob is the only one to even come close here, and watching how he pacified his way through the entire dungeon of Zot was impressive.

It also highlights the difficulty in presenting summaries like this: There is simply so much content in a game of Crawl that doing a write-up on it will always miss a lot. This game, I felt that a lot more than the previous one. There were a lot of tactical moments that would have been fun to highlight, especially throughout the early dungeon, but a lot ended up on the cutting room floor for the sake of length. I'm really happy about how this write-up turned out, though!

Let me know what you think of this write-up, and as always, you're welcome to make suggestions for what to profile next.

Happy Crawling!
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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 01:51

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

For a future write-up, I'd love to see a comparison between sapher's NaWz and sapher's later DDWr. I bet there's some interesting contrasts to be drawn between these two speedruns; you might also make a detour to point out that PurpleRed probably would've beat the NaWz run if it hadn't been for one of the most unlucky banishments I've ever seen in a Crawl game.

Rob's pacifist run is totally crazy, and it's a bit of a shame that it was so dependent on such a broken and unfun mechanic. I still think it would be cool if there was a way to win Crawl without killing things, but this run makes it awfully clear that it would take quite a bit of work to make it much fun.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 02:21

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

archaeo wrote:I still think it would be cool if there was a way to win Crawl without killing things, but this run makes it awfully clear that it would take quite a bit of work to make it much fun.


Half xp for seeing a monster, the other half for killing it. Like in Sil.

You're welcome.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 02:48

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

I don't think half xp for seeing + half for killing really accomplishes much in crawl, since persistent levels make leaving enemies behind not very desirable anyway.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 03:00

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

archaeo wrote:For a future write-up, I'd love to see a comparison between sapher's NaWz and sapher's later DDWr. I bet there's some interesting contrasts to be drawn between these two speedruns; you might also make a detour to point out that PurpleRed probably would've beat the NaWz run if it hadn't been for one of the most unlucky banishments I've ever seen in a Crawl game.

Rob's pacifist run is totally crazy, and it's a bit of a shame that it was so dependent on such a broken and unfun mechanic. I still think it would be cool if there was a way to win Crawl without killing things, but this run makes it awfully clear that it would take quite a bit of work to make it much fun.

That sounds fascinating! I'll take a look into those.

And yes, if I could make one change to the direction of Crawl's development, it would be to expand options for reduced-killing playstyles. Speedruns and challenge runs are awesome, but most speedruns these days are of the "kill all dudes really really fast" style. I miss the feel of older challenge runs, silly mechanics and all.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 03:14

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Rast wrote:
archaeo wrote:I still think it would be cool if there was a way to win Crawl without killing things, but this run makes it awfully clear that it would take quite a bit of work to make it much fun.


Half xp for seeing a monster, the other half for killing it. Like in Sil.

You're welcome.

Sil has much fewer types of enemies, so the XP goes down quite fast. Crawl has too many types of enemies.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 08:47

Re: [UPDATE] Stories from Crawl History: Rob the Almost Paci

Blade wrote:Rob the Almost Pacifist
http://imgur.com/a/dow49

Hey, everyone! Stories from Crawl History is back, this time highlighting the story of Rob the Almost Pacifist (thanks for the suggestion, nago!). This game was a very different experience to the previous one I profiled, but satisfying and engaging in its own right. Doing a full-pacifist game is not easy. It is not fun. It is not anywhere close to fast and simple. There's a reason that Rob is the only one to even come close here, and watching how he pacified his way through the entire dungeon of Zot was impressive.

It also highlights the difficulty in presenting summaries like this: There is simply so much content in a game of Crawl that doing a write-up on it will always miss a lot. This game, I felt that a lot more than the previous one. There were a lot of tactical moments that would have been fun to highlight, especially throughout the early dungeon, but a lot ended up on the cutting room floor for the sake of length. I'm really happy about how this write-up turned out, though!

Let me know what you think of this write-up, and as always, you're welcome to make suggestions for what to profile next.

Happy Crawling!


Thanks for following my suggestion! Another insane game. Certainly he played very well, but I can't imagine how he bear to do all that things for so loong without going mad.
Also you deserve some praises: excellent writing and storytelling, thanks for your work.

From the screenshots, the murdering of the bat isn't 100% clear to me: did Rob walked into it without realizing it was there? The '!a' inscription didn't exist at that time, did it?

+1 for telling about some Sapher's or Purplered speedruns
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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 09:06

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

did Rob walked into it without realizing it was there?


That is correct. He was running from the mosquitoes and the bat appeared on the edge of his field of vision, then right in front of his path, in the space of 2 turns and about a quarter-second. I had to replay it several times to see exactly what happened. It was all very sudden and an unfortunate coincidence in the middle of the game.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 12:45

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Blade wrote:giant mosquitoes (insects. Can't pacify them.)

You could pacify most insects back then, though, that's how he clears Hive. Were giant mosquitoes special-cased? I don't remember, though when I played they were called "vampire mosquitoes" (and were using blowfly stats?) already, I think.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 14:31

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Blade wrote:
did Rob walked into it without realizing it was there?


That is correct. He was running from the mosquitoes and the bat appeared on the edge of his field of vision, then right in front of his path, in the space of 2 turns and about a quarter-second. I had to replay it several times to see exactly what happened. It was all very sudden and an unfortunate coincidence in the middle of the game.


Thanks
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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 15:03

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Sar wrote:
Blade wrote:giant mosquitoes (insects. Can't pacify them.)

You could pacify most insects back then, though, that's how he clears Hive. Were giant mosquitoes special-cased? I don't remember, though when I played they were called "vampire mosquitoes" (and were using blowfly stats?) already, I think.

That's the one bit I should have been watching more closely. My mind went straight to "vampire mosquito" with them. That said, I recall lots of chases and no pacification with them, so my guess is that they were very similar to today.

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Post Monday, 7th March 2016, 15:13

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Perhaps they had "undead intelligence" a la zombie.
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Post Tuesday, 8th March 2016, 05:49

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Really interesting games, and well done on the writing and storytelling. +1 for discussing one of the top speedruns as a future topic. Too bad I can't thank your original post more than once.
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Post Sunday, 13th March 2016, 01:32

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

A preview for Crawl Legends #3, now with animation!
https://i.imgur.com/HYiZFP7.gifv

Depending on how things go, I'm hoping to have this one out in the next few days.
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Post Sunday, 13th March 2016, 10:12

Blade wrote:A preview for Crawl Legends #3, now with animation!
https://i.imgur.com/HYiZFP7.gifv

What!? In Vaults:5 after 5 k turns?

I know about Sapher's speedruns but this is crazy.

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Post Monday, 14th March 2016, 14:01

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Seeing how AlphaGo is all the heat these days, I think it's a good time to document qw's first win :)
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Post Monday, 14th March 2016, 19:25

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Scalding Steam wrote:Seeing how AlphaGo is all the heat these days, I think it's a good time to document qw's first win :)

I actually love this idea. Thanks! I'll most likely cover that after I finish this current one.
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Post Tuesday, 15th March 2016, 05:35

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

Blade wrote:A preview for Crawl Legends #3, now with animation!
https://i.imgur.com/HYiZFP7.gifv

Depending on how things go, I'm hoping to have this one out in the next few days.


Maybe it's just me, but from the preview it seems like it's harder to follow with the animation than it was with the stills.
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Post Tuesday, 15th March 2016, 23:50

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

Well, #3 is here! This was a very different experience to the past two games. Lots of fun stuff here! prozacelf, I hope the balance struck between animations and stills works in the final album. I used them only for critical moments where seeing a bit of animation struck me as interesting. If animation turns out to be the wrong direction for those moments, I'll go back to just doing stills, but I thought it would be fun to give it a shot.

I might post a bit later with some extra information about this run and bonus things, but for now, I hope everyone enjoys the story of Sapher, fastest minotaur on Earth! http://imgur.com/a/Jsa8b

Let me know what you think :)

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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 01:59

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

am I crazy or does the story end at turn 755?
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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 02:05

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

You'll need to click the "Load remaining images" button at the bottom.

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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 07:35

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

Games choice: 10/10
Story telling: 9/10

Very good initiative, keep it up!
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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 08:12

4thArraOfDagon: anyway i would expect charly's game next [in CRAWL LEGENDS]
4thArraOfDagon: 'mysteriously deleted game'
Turgon: It's STILL not in the scoring tables
Turgon: I don't like it
4thArraOfDagon: yea, thats bad



From recent CXC webtiles chat, referring to Charly's 20.1 k DDFi 15-runer which has already been mentioned in this topic.
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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 08:26

4thArraOfDagon: we need to release this game on surface

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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 14:58

Re: [UPDATE] Crawl Legends #2: Rob the Almost Pacifist

prozacelf wrote:Maybe it's just me, but from the preview it seems like it's harder to follow with the animation than it was with the stills.

I'm not a big fan of the animations either. Mostly because they show up as already animating, so I have to watch the loop a few times before I can even figure out when the action starts.
Apart from that minor annoyance I liked the story though, the comparison with a regular character was a nice touch.
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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 16:09

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

Thanks for the feedback and the ideas, everyone! Glad to hear you're enjoying the stories. I really like the idea of commemorating a game mysteriously lost from the score list, so I'll keep Charly's in mind for the future. I'll look into what to do with the animations in the future, since there's been pretty mixed feedback in that area. Other than that, I'm considering splitting some future games into series, which would give me the option of covering 15-runers without either being very terse or sticking 250 pictures on a single page. Before that happens, though, I have a few games to cover, so look for these in the near future:
1. qw and a brief history of bots
2. meneril's game of Crawl 4.1
(probably) 3. Charly's DDFi.

Cheers!

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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 17:16

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

dunno how much work it is, but the animations would be more informative if they could be started/paused/rewound. I would reach them when they were halfway through playing, and tiles-player that I am, also had a hard time following what was happening in real time.
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Post Wednesday, 16th March 2016, 19:02

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

all before wrote:dunno how much work it is, but the animations would be more informative if they could be started/paused/rewound. I would reach them when they were halfway through playing, and tiles-player that I am, also had a hard time following what was happening in real time.


Oh but you already can! (Try right clicking on a gif)
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Post Thursday, 17th March 2016, 17:34

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

This is incredible! I'm a huge fan of all the work you are doing here, and am eagerly anticipating the next installment. Thanks for putting all of it together.

On animations: They inject life into the stories: Sapher's dive into the Vaults popped out because of the animation, I felt the tension. Furthermore, they add valuable context to the games. With only images, the Crawl shown is alien from the Crawl I play (but still entertaining). When a sequence is animated, it comes home that their Crawl is my Crawl (if that makes any sense). Then, my jaw drops.

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Post Thursday, 17th March 2016, 20:53

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

thanks, dracos369, i am technologically incompetent!

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Post Sunday, 29th May 2016, 09:41

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS #3: Sapher, the Fastest Minotaur on Earth

So I guess we're not seeing that qw legend?

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Post Monday, 30th May 2016, 23:21

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Proj

Okay, update time! Sort of.

See, I had a hard time making the qw one interesting as I was going through it, distracting me for that crucial long-enough-to-get-out-of-the-habit moment. I have it about 66% done, though--all the watching and photo gathering and everything is set, I just need to do the actual writing. So I would actually like to do it sometime soon. I've just been dragging my feet.

Those of you who enjoy my writing in general might be interested to know one reason I've dragged my feet, though:
I've actually been preparing for a big project that started the other day. I'm backpacking and hitchhiking around the United States, writing about my experiences as I go. Right now, I'm sitting in a café about 150 miles away from my home, recharging my laptop and such.

I haven't posted about it here for the obvious reason of it's not Crawl. Since I think this community is awesome, though, I'd love to turn to you guys for suggestions and quests to pursue at points throughout it, though (things like: Make a Crawl screenshot out of rocks. Or anything that occurs to you. Sky's the limit). Would people be interested in that sort of thing?

Either way, I'll push the qw legends update back up my Priorities list a ways and get it done sometime in the next few towns. Sorry to go radio silent on it for so long.

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Post Sunday, 31st July 2016, 02:25

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Proj

Blade wrote:Until next time (not another 2 months from now, I promise)!

Um

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Post Sunday, 31st July 2016, 21:18

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Proj

Request story about score-scumming in the abyss with xom mummy.
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Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 01:11

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Proj

What is the craziest hitchhiking experience you've had?
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Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4478

Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Monday, 1st August 2016, 08:43

Re: CRAWL LEGENDS: [UPDATE] Explanation on #4 & Current Proj

pumpyscump wrote:What is the craziest hitchhiking experience you've had?

Well, Xom took me on quite a ride once...
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

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