Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
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Slime Squisher
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
just my 2c.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Tartarus Sorceror
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Dungeon Master
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Crypt Cleanser
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
johlstei wrote:SH is like, sort-of EV with some shield-flavored limitations. The fact that those limitations don't make much sense on non-shields is a consequence of adding other sources of SH and should have been considered then. I don't think making some SH work differently from other SH is any more intuitive. The weird, unintuitive thing is what it really means for non-shields to add SH. Do shields still face penalties for multiple hits in one round? If so, that's even less intuitive, and can't even be displayed in the ui if you want to make an exception.
This is a very good point. Flavor-wise, the non-shield sources of SH seem to be flavored around things that block/deflect enemy attacks rather than helping you dodge them. But you're right, gameplay-wise the main difference between SH and EV is that SH has mechanics flavored around the fact that blocking attacks requires physically holding up a shield to block them (difficulty blocking multiple attacks per turn, SH going away when you're paralyzed) which doesn't make any sense for SH granted by bone plates, or magical amulets, or supper strong divine winds (or whatever Qazlal's SH is flavored as).
Tomb Titivator
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Shoals Surfer
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
le_nerd wrote:Probably the most important restriction shields face compared to EV is the inability to block bolts/breath. Seriously limits their performance compared to EV.
Not really and you do get to block lcs and ood, the most important restriction is you do not get to use 2-handers.
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Tomb Titivator
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
dowan wrote:SH and shields are two different things. Especially since this thread is talking about SH from amulets. SH doesn't prevent wielding 2 handers, shields do.
Yeah but SH is just like EV with some shield-flavored seasoning. If you remove the things that are unique about SH currently, you get items that add to a second pool of EV. At that point, they may as well just grant EV. As I see it, the shield-themed effects are the only reason non-shield sources of SH exist.
edit: vvv ahh okay, I gotcha
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Spider Stomper
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Shoals Surfer
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
dowan wrote:Yeah, I agree with you. I was just addressing Lacuenta's comment about losing access to 2 handers, which wasn't really relevant to this particular discussion of SH.
le_nerd wrote:Probably the most important restriction shields face compared to EV is the inability to block bolts/breath. Seriously limits their performance compared to EV.
emphasis mine.
Even in the context of SH from other sources, SH is almost as good and at times preferable to EV as was what I meant by it blocking orb etc.
Anyway agree that SH from amulets plates should stay when confused, since especially in the case of amulets/god abbilities it's a magical source of shielding(but this argument is solely based on flavor).
Otoh one could say you're to confused to use the amulet in the right way/Qazlal can't protect you very well when you're shambling around drunkenly, or something a long that line.
Slime Squisher
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
adozu wrote:i think it's fine that it does for consistency reasons, "SH is canceled by confusion" is a simple rule, "SH is canceled by confusion but you can keep some of it if you wear a specific amulet" sounds unnecessarily exception-y.
just my 2c.
Doesn't the same happen to EV while paralysed? You lose most of it but you keep some some from your racial size bonus or the Ds repulsion field mut (but oddly not +EV items).
Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
duvessa wrote:Maybe paralysis, petrification, confusion, etc. just shouldn't affect your EV or SH at all. You keep your regular EV when you're slowed, weighed down with 200 large rocks, frozen, slowly stumbling through water, bleeding out of every orifice, caught in a net (but not a web because ???), or sleeping, and your EV usually goes up when you turn into a fungus. I don't think it would be any more counterintuitive to keep your EV and SH when paralysed or climbing stairs.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
I thought it might be harder to argue for because of the flavour but then minmay helpfully pointed a bunch of counterexamples so I don't have that concern any more.
Tomb Titivator
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Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
bcadren wrote:because EV getting nuked by paralysis, makes paralysis a lot more deadly to EV characters
crate wrote: Losing EV/SH is probably the biggest problem with paralysis in crawl right now.
Re: Is Confusion Canceling Amulets of Reflection a Bug?
HardboiledGargoyle wrote:Can someone actually explain what paralysis is supposed to do, other than make you take various measures to avoid getting paralyzed?
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