worst sacrifice
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Spider Stomper
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Spider Stomper
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Re: worst sacrifice
Random inevitable death
Boring run away or boring death
Forced kite or boring death
Spam poison needle or death
Spam berserk(only Be)
Newbie trap
So all of these are boring and non-interesting, need early game is remove.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Spider Stomper
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Re: worst sacrifice
I do not have a unique an interesting choise of the early games. It is impossible.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:I do not have a unique an interesting choise of the early games.
that's sad, I do
also it's "choice"
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Re: worst sacrifice
It is force always same game play ,
All of the characters can not be different in any means.
How do different is the character of the same combo in the early game?
Even you can different the character of the same combo in the late game!
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:How do different is the character of the same combo in the early game?
one finds a ring of protection, another identifies a stack of fear scrolls, yet another finds a dagger of elec or a suitable altar on D:2, all of these contribute to survivability in different and exciting ways
also Crawl has like 300 or 400 different character combinations
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Re: worst sacrifice
Random something that you have found for the first time, does not change your character suddenly randomly something.(Except for corpse and additional player ghost)
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:As long as you do not have a axe of woe, the character of the same combo and the same skills and the same god is always the same.
Then... don't take the same god? Train different skills (apart from the obvious ones)?
onget wrote:Random something that you have found for the first time, does not change your character suddenly randomly something.
Except that's wrong? A book with good spells found early enough on a book background might influence my skill and god decision. A good enough heavy armour can change the entire direction of my character. I've taken early Jiyva on every character I've found it on, and won most of them, and they played massively different. Just because you play your characters rigidly and always take the same god on every character of a given type doesn't mean it's the way everybody plays (it's not even a good way to play, too).
Spider Stomper
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Spider Stomper
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Re: worst sacrifice
most cases additional spellbook, it does not change anything the early game. That you have the necronomicon is really meaningless in the early game.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
Anyway, I'm glad you at least agreed with me that the characters of the same combo can play completely differently!
onget wrote:There is no it in equipment and consumables.
Consumables change the way you deal with danger, and different consumables help you deal with them in a different way. This is less obvious when you have stacks of all of them (standard situation in mid/endgame), but much more obvious in earlygame. Blink is one of the strongest ones, but maybe you want to conserve it, fear works greatly on some enemies but doesn't work on others, invis is my favorite but it has its limitations, healing are the banal safe ones, maybe you quaff haste dependign on encounter or even quaff might and go for the kill.
Equipment - it's a rather exceptional example, but it's a real one from one of my games. Started as HuAK with pitiful Str. Found the +10 gold dragon armour of Agnosticism (worn) {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ Dam+6} on D:4. Spent most of Lair with negative EV (but nothing could hurt me anyway). Really fun game.
Edit: also I've used Maxwell's Coffin in several games and won those. It obviously very much influenced my characters' development.
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Re: worst sacrifice
Consumables difference really does not do anything.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Re: worst sacrifice
sigmund and grinder are the same. die or walk.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
I mean you whole premise is that avoiding a certain number of enemies being optimal is a bad thing somehow, and then you trivialize whatever actions have to be implemented to avoid said enemies as "boring"
also I guess every character looks the same until endgame where they all suddenly aren't the same lol
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Re: worst sacrifice
I wonder how you are always able to walk away from Sigmund. Have you never found him closer than at edge of LoS? Has he never confused you as his first action?
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
Sar wrote:I don't know why I even tried arguing with you but I regret it now
I mean you whole premise is that avoiding a certain number of enemies being optimal is a bad thing somehow, and then you trivialize whatever actions have to be implemented to avoid said enemies as "boring"
also I guess every character looks the same until endgame where they all suddenly aren't the same lol
This is easy. If you kill something without consumables, it is boring. If you kill something with consumables, it is a waste of resources. If you avoid something, it is boring. There is no fun in crawl, just boredom and stupid play.
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:I inevitable random death
or you can quaff invis and try to walk confusion off, or quaff treeform (not recommended unless Sigmund is in melee), or you quaff HW and wait for it to end
there's nothing inevitable here, I mean I don't even really remember last time I died to Sigmund
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Re: worst sacrifice
Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
Sar wrote:or you can quaff invis and try to walk confusion off, or quaff treeform (not recommended unless Sigmund is in melee), or you quaff HW and wait for it to end
Also agility, might, berserk, fear, blink, teleport, haste. My favorite is ring of invis, I love going invisible before Sigmund.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:I killed sigmund to only remember is stupid spam tab.
If you consider tab stupid, play book backgrounds. Something like DEFE or SpEn and no more tab.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:I killed sigmund to only remember is stupid spam tab.
oh right, so now you did kill sigmund, but I thought the choice was either boring walk or boring die, now we add boring kill to it
yeah, in Crawl you deal with enemies by either killing them, avoiding them or dying to them
how trite, where are my dialogue options?
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Re: worst sacrifice
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
because "stupid tab/flame tongue spam" is replaced in the midgame by "stupid tab/bolt of fire spam" to be later replaced by "stupid tab/fire storm spam", with Mara and Mennas taking the roles of Sigmund and Grinder
the only thing that really changes is that your character accumulates tons of escape consumables like ?blinking and !heal wounds, making avoiding stupid always avoid uniques even stupider
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:The stupid spam tab also contains the stupid spam flame tongue.
I see. So you spam stupid flame tongue and then spam stupid tab. Stupid inevitable death indeed. Or do you retreat when at 0 MP? Then stupid retreat indeed. Or do you retreat before 0 MP? Then stupid smart retreat indeed. Or do you use a consumable to survive? Then "stupid" "waste" of resource to survive indeed.
I have a question though - isn't it interesting to choose between stupid things? Or do you choose the same option with all your characters?
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Re: worst sacrifice
Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:Early game is optimal play or stupid death. Walking from sigmund is always optimal.
Good, now we have something not stupid. Is it always obvious which retreat path is optimal? What happens if your retreat path has other monsters, doesn't it start to become interesting? I mean you can choose to use a consumable to clear path for retreat from Sigmund (it can be unusual consumable like potion of magic or wand of random effects or wand of enslavement or javelin etc.). For me interesting means "I don't have an obvious solution".
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Re: worst sacrifice
onget wrote:Early game is optimal play or stupid death.
I see. So, you like playing extremely suboptimally and getting away with it. Have you tried wizmode? It might help you to smooth the earlygame experience to the point where it resembles mid/endgame more closely.
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Re: worst sacrifice
Sar wrote:Have you tried wizmode? It might help you to smooth the earlygame experience to the point where it resembles mid/endgame more closely.
I read explore mode is better, the only difference with normal mode is you get a request to really die after death.
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Re: worst sacrifice
Re: worst sacrifice
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Re: worst sacrifice
radinms wrote:mage background in early game... spam, tab Lv1 magic.
Luring, kiting, resting, miscasts, trying different weapons. Much more interesting than melee IMHO.
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Re: worst sacrifice
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