Pandemonium Purger
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Faith
Chicken wrote: (You should be able to control it with the control spell)
all sources of control teleport are gone in trunk
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Pandemonium Purger
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Chicken wrote: (You should be able to control it with the control spell)
Spider Stomper
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duvessa wrote:the only circumstance where faith is ever unwanted is you are a demigod
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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duvessa wrote:the only circumstance where faith is ever unwanted is you are a demigod
Spider Stomper
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Sprucery wrote:Gourmand is one of the least useful amulets. What are you doing to be so hungry that permafood and chunks don't cut it?
Ziggurat Zagger
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duvessa wrote:the only circumstance where faith is ever unwanted as long as you don't have better amulets is you are a demigod
Sandman25 wrote:duvessa wrote:the only circumstance where faith is ever unwanted as long as you don't have better amulets is you are a demigod
FTFY.
Ziggurat Zagger
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duvessa wrote:There are no better amulets, so...
Sandman25 wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
Ziggurat Zagger
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duvessa wrote:Well sure, artefacts can be better, but I figured that kind of goes without saying, and randarts can also have faith on them.Faith is excellent for all of those gods except for the specific case of vehumet at already-high piety.Sandman25 wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
Ziggurat Zagger
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Vestibule Violator
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Sandman25 wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
Vestibule Violator
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Cocytus Succeeder
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Berder wrote:In addition to the ones you've listed, I usually wouldn't want faith on the following gods:
Gozag - faith does nothing with Gozag.
Ru - faith does nothing with Ru.
Tartarus Sorceror
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Berder wrote:Faith doesn't actually do anything with gozag: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... 1d975cc92e
I stand corrected about Ru.
Tomb Titivator
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Barkeep
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Berder wrote:Kiku - I use corpse delivery with Kiku rarely enough that faith is primarily a nuisance that takes my amulet slot.
Slime Squisher
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bel wrote:Eh? I think faith is great with Vehumet. You are showered with gifts, and can take it off when it reaches 15. Max piety is easily regained. There's almost no downside and plenty of upside.
minmay wrote:Faith is excellent for all of those gods except for the specific case of vehumet at already-high piety.Sandman wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
hyperminqmay wrote:There are no better amulets, so...
bcadren wrote:duvessa likes ignoring all playstyles other than his own.To talk about these intelligently:minmay wrote:Faith is excellent for all of those gods except for the specific case of vehumet at already-high piety.Sandman wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
- with some characters Faith makes Vehumet WORSE, because if you are say a HO or a Ce (-3 Spellcasting apt) the faster piety gain makes it unlikely you'll be able to accept most the gifts.
- Sif actually is good with Faith for a good while (get to 6* faster in order to get gifts and to get gifts more often); but could probably be removed once you have the book gifts you want.
- Now that Ash's skill boosts are available at **...knock yourself out; unless you are really spamming Scrying and Knowledge Transfer; you don't have a use for Faith.
- Makhleb - sure. early game faith, maybe. But the Invos become useless with the passive still good.
- Dith - I can see someone using Shadow Step often enough to want Faith.
duvessa wrote:well when I say faith is good I assume that you picked a god that you actually wanted to use, rather than picking a god and then not using any of their abilities. if picking a god and then not using it is your playstyle, sure, knock yourself out
Pandemonium Purger
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duvessa wrote:There are no better amulets, so...Sandman25 wrote:duvessa wrote:the only circumstance where faith is ever unwanted as long as you don't have better amulets is you are a demigod
FTFY.
Blades Runner
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Berder wrote:Sandman25 wrote:Are we ignoring Vehumet/Sif Muna/Ashenzari/Makhleb/Dithmenos etc. here?
Dithmenos - definitely, no faith. With Dith, it's more important to get the passives, which maximize at 200 piety. Shadow step is a completely optional thing that stabbers can use to reduce their turn count if they don't mind taking unnecessary risks. Every shadow step has the potential to put you in range of many dangerous things at once; it violates the rule to never walk towards enemies.
Tomb Titivator
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Sar wrote:if you are a HO or a Ce and you took Vehumet I assume you actually want to cast spells and, as such, want his boosts to come as early as possible
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Tartarus Sorceror
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dowan wrote:When wearing faith with Veh, you can just take off the amulet if there's a spell that you really want.
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:Makh, really? You don't use active abilities much?
Ziggurat Zagger
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Berder wrote:Gozag - faith does nothing with Gozag.
Kiku - I use corpse delivery with Kiku rarely enough that faith is primarily a nuisance that takes my amulet slot. Without faith I don't tend to run out of corpses to have delivered, and Kiku piety isn't good for much besides that.
Ru - faith does nothing with Ru.
Beogh - smiting is not worth training invo for.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Sar wrote:well XP penalty doesn't really matter because you still have Kiku...
Ziggurat Zagger
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Sandman25 wrote:I didn't mention 3 of those 4 gods because it was obvious for everyone IMHO. As about Kiku I agree with you, I don't spam corpse delivery unless I really need it because it takes away 50% XP. The more often you use corpse delivery, the weaker you become and the more often you need corpse delivery. Being both weak and piety-dependent is a very bad idea as is easy to see with Fedhas/Yred/Beogh/Kiku.
Slime Squisher
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Sar wrote:if you are a HO or a Ce and you took Vehumet I assume you actually want to cast spells and, as such, want his boosts to come as early as possible
Ziggurat Zagger
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Blades Runner
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KoboldLord wrote:Sandman25 wrote:I didn't mention 3 of those 4 gods because it was obvious for everyone IMHO. As about Kiku I agree with you, I don't spam corpse delivery unless I really need it because it takes away 50% XP. The more often you use corpse delivery, the weaker you become and the more often you need corpse delivery. Being both weak and piety-dependent is a very bad idea as is easy to see with Fedhas/Yred/Beogh/Kiku.
I don't understand. Dropping a bunch of corpses in a corridor to Corpse Rot doesn't cost any xp in any sense, and neither does chain-Tormenting large monsters that I can then one-shot with ranged attacks.
Even if I'm making zombies, it isn't like they're going to be outdamaging me with my pain weapon. Since they are usually slow, they're probably all trailing behind me in the first place, so I can swap with them if something dangerous comes up, and if they're behind me they aren't going to be stealing any of my kills. Technically there's probably a tiny bit of xp leak when they kill off river rats or something, but I'm not even sure it's possible to approach 50% xp loss if the only pets you're using are distraction zombies.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Blades Runner
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Ziggurat Zagger
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KoboldLord wrote:I don't understand. Dropping a bunch of corpses in a corridor to Corpse Rot doesn't cost any xp in any sense, and neither does chain-Tormenting large monsters that I can then one-shot with ranged attacks.
Even if I'm making zombies, it isn't like they're going to be outdamaging me with my pain weapon.
Since they are usually slow, they're probably all trailing behind me in the first place, so I can swap with them if something dangerous comes up, and if they're behind me they aren't going to be stealing any of my kills. Technically there's probably a tiny bit of xp leak when they kill off river rats or something, but I'm not even sure it's possible to approach 50% xp loss if the only pets you're using are distraction zombies.
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