Swamp Slogger
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ANOTHER nerf to casters
- For this message the author rockygargoyle has received thanks: 2
- Berder, duvessa
If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.
Swamp Slogger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Cocytus Succeeder
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Ziggurat Zagger
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There is an empty arch of ancient stone here.
Cast which spell? (? or * to list)
Aiming: Singularity
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor
Space collapses on itself with a satisfying crunch.
You hear a roar! x3
You hear a shout! You hear an angry buzzing noise. You hear a shout!
You hear a roar! x2
You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar! You hear a roar! You hear a roar!
You hear a croak. You hear a roar! You hear an angry buzzing noise.
You hear an angry hiss. You hear a roar! You hear an angry buzzing noise.
You hear a roar! You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar!
You hear a shout! You hear a loud, deep croak! You hear a roar!
You hear a loud, deep croak! x2
You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar! You hear a roar!
You hear a loud, deep croak! You hear a roar!
You feel a bit more experienced. x6
You feel a bit more experienced. x12
You feel a bit more experienced. x8
You feel a bit more experienced. x5
You feel a bit more experienced. x4
You feel a bit more experienced. x3
You feel a bit more experienced.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5382
Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5382
Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36
Sandman25 wrote:This what I meant by the way, entering a new level of zig.
- Code:
There is an empty arch of ancient stone here.
Cast which spell? (? or * to list)
Aiming: Singularity
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor
Space collapses on itself with a satisfying crunch.
You hear a roar! x3
You hear a shout! You hear an angry buzzing noise. You hear a shout!
You hear a roar! x2
You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar! You hear a roar! You hear a roar!
You hear a croak. You hear a roar! You hear an angry buzzing noise.
You hear an angry hiss. You hear a roar! You hear an angry buzzing noise.
You hear a roar! You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar!
You hear a shout! You hear a loud, deep croak! You hear a roar!
You hear a loud, deep croak! x2
You hear a chilling moan. You hear a roar! You hear a roar!
You hear a loud, deep croak! You hear a roar!
You feel a bit more experienced. x6
You feel a bit more experienced. x12
You feel a bit more experienced. x8
You feel a bit more experienced. x5
You feel a bit more experienced. x4
You feel a bit more experienced. x3
You feel a bit more experienced.
I killed 39 monsters by a single cast of singularity and I still don't know whom I am "fighting".
Tartarus Sorceror
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Swamp Slogger
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Barkeep
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Zwobot wrote:Flat out removal seems an over-reaction.
duvessa wrote:now it's being kept for monsters because one dev is afraid of infringing on another dev's pet vault.
Swamp Slogger
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archaeo wrote:Zwobot wrote:Flat out removal seems an over-reaction.
As usual, the ##crawl-dev logs provide some clarity. People there were quick to point out that, without damage, singularity becomes a fairly weak spell in comparison to all the other tloc spells you could be using, especially at level 9. And, if you drop the level significantly, it still doesn't compare favorably to just using the other spells anyway!
Ziggurat Zagger
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archaeo wrote:e: oh, it was supposed to be a joke, I see, v. funny. I forgot, because in my tavern headcanon, duvessa is always 100% serious about crawl.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Location: Toronto, Canada
duvessa wrote:i havent had an elf dream in literally years
Dungeon Master
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"duvessa" wrote:edit: guys the second part is a joke, stop thinking that i was serious
Mines Malingerer
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Barkeep
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Arrhythmia wrote:Princess Zelda, noted elf.
Abyss Ambulator
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Tartarus Sorceror
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archaeo wrote:Arrhythmia wrote:Princess Zelda, noted elf.
Excuse me (princess), Zelda is a Hylian
GrumpD wrote:I'm sad to see the spell go. I've only used it a little bit, but it didn't strike me as exceptionally different than firestorm in terms of kill power, but I'm also not finding the one best way to exploit LOS in zigs. I mean, it doesn't really have that much effect on the three rune game experience, right?
Barkeep
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Arrhythmia wrote:Yeah, okay, the long lived, long eared race with an elegant language who are personally blessed by the Gods but face a dwindling bloodline AREN'T elves? Take a hike, troll.
Vestibule Violator
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Tartarus Sorceror
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Dungeon Master
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Berder wrote:invisibility nerf
Tartarus Sorceror
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Sprucery wrote:Berder wrote:invisibility nerf
What's that?
Spider Stomper
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MarvinPA wrote:Berder wrote:I wasn't a fan of the singularity spell, but its removal, still, is a nerf to casters, in line with the disturbing recent trend.
I feel like I need to find some other spell to nerf now just to see if it's possible for this self-parody to become any more incredible. (The true reason behind brutal caster nerfs revealed...???)
Tartarus Sorceror
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bcadren wrote:Hey casters got a buff too. Ignite Poison is much more powerful now.
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Tartarus Sorceror
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MarvinPA wrote:
- Remove feeding from Vitalisation (as with poison chunk removal, the devs are trying their best to make sure all casters (of Zin) starve)
Swamp Slogger
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Swamp Slogger
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Berder wrote:Changes in 0.17:
- less early game MP
- undead expiration
- can't eat poison chunks
- invisibility nerf
- removal of enslave spell
- removal of flight spell
- removal of control teleport
- removal of singularity
Cocytus Succeeder
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Tartarus Sorceror
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bel wrote:Biggest caster nerf: MP over 50 is not halved anymore.
Zwobot wrote:Tukima's makes up for it
Cocytus Succeeder
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Berder wrote:bel wrote:Biggest caster nerf: MP over 50 is not halved anymore.
That came as part of the same change that reduced early game MP. Having a few points of extra MP on a character that already has tons of MP and is well established, does not make up for the far more important early game consequences.
Barkeep
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Berder wrote:Marvin, two of the patches you mention were extremely edge case bugfixes that had little effect on anybody.
Ziggurat Zagger
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archaeo wrote:And the removal of things like cTele and enslave are bad for the high-level players
Vestibule Violator
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MarvinPA wrote:I dug up some other important recent caster nerfs to fix some glaring omissions from the list. ...(now casters can't even detect whether an invisible adjacent monster is undead or demonic by casting Vampiric Draining at it, very useful for deciding whether to then cast Dispel Undead at it)
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Swamp Slogger
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byrel wrote:At the risk of turning this into an 'educate the truant player' session... here's a couple more specific questions:
How is not being able to eat poison a specific nerf to casters? Because of the Cure Poison spell? I admit never needing enough satiation on corpse-eating characters to have thought of eating poisonous meat and the curing the poison.
I hadn't heard about the enslave+flight spells; I'd rather have Tukima's than Enslave anyhow. I'm more scared about that quick blade of distortion or antimagic GSC than by the monster itself usually. Though I guess enslavement was a tool vs spellcasting threats too.
Oh, and PSA: I've just run 1 game on 0.16 and half of one on 0.17, both stealthy stabbers. Stealth in the second one was noticeably stronger. I didn't notice a difference to invisistabbing. (OTOH I don't really CARE that they all woke up provided I can stab them to death before the invis wears off; I might not have been paying attention.)
Cocytus Succeeder
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Barkeep
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Sar wrote:Are you saying Berder isn't a high-level player?
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Tomb Titivator
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bel wrote:I don't agree with "magic less powerful than melee". In fact, I think magic is more powerful than melee, it is just less "tab"-able. Most people train up melee only for convenience. It is a bit easier to screw up with magic-only characters, than melee-only characters, but that is a separate issue.
In fact, when I was new, the first few DECj I won, I did most of the game almost entirely with magic (I did train dodging and fighting for defence). I had this idea that DE was supposed to be a glass cannon, so I rushed high level powerful spells. Battlesphere lasted till I got fire storm castable. Nothing can really last against fire storm in a 3-rune game, or 15 rune game for that matter, given enough fire storms. DE has high apts, so that is a bit of an extreme case, but so is doing the game entirely with magic. Missiles are probably more powerful than magic.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Pandemonium Purger
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mps wrote: You can probably win normal crawling by training only throwing and attacking only with stones.
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