New crusader


Although the central place for design discussion is ##crawl-dev on freenode, some may find it helpful to discuss requests and suggestions here first.

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 25th June 2011, 16:31

Re: New crusader

At least it has now a good defined context, despite obscure at the beginning. Whatever it's called let's try to focus on give it a decent play-style and you'll see how people care nothing about its name.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 25th June 2011, 17:03

Re: New crusader

Why should we limit ourselves to overdone stereotypes and descriptive names? What's wrong with bringing something original and with a theme? It's obscure, yeah. You mean you might learn something from playing a video game? Heresy!
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 25th June 2011, 17:21

Re: New crusader

I'm fairly confident that no matter what name a background ends up with, there'll be a large crowd of naysayers criticizing it. Some of them will criticize every name that comes up, and others have a pet name they like and will bash any others in hopes that it'll be changed to their preference. Unfortunately for them, they all have a different pet name, so no matter which name is picked most of them will still be there bashing it.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Saturday, 25th June 2011, 21:24

Re: New crusader

Good lord, cut the lecturing. I don't see anyone here bashing other suggestions, now do you? I just tried to understand a logic behind a seemingly unlogical decision. Besides, galehar, the condescending tone is uncalled for. I thought one of the goals you guys were going for was clarity and this just seems like the exact opposite. I don't mind learning something new from a video game, on the contrary, but that's hardly the point here. What's done is done, though, so no point in discussing it further since user input on this matter isn't probably welcome.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 04:26

Re: New crusader

Lord Frick, you're overreacting a touch.

I probably wouldn't have gone with skald myself but we'll get used to it just like "megabat". "Skald" has one huge advantage: it's no longer "crusader". Thanks Galehar for making an executive decision.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 07:23

Re: New crusader

danr wrote:Lord Frick, you're overreacting a touch.

I probably wouldn't have gone with skald myself but we'll get used to it just like "megabat". "Skald" has one huge advantage: it's no longer "crusader". Thanks Galehar for making an executive decision.

Note that megabat has been reverted :)

It may look like an executive decision from here, but it wasn't. It has been discussed in IRC, and skald got a lot more support than warchanter. I only supported the choice, I didn't even made the change myself.

Now, let's go back to talking about the gameplay changes done to the background. If you still don't understand or disagree with the criteria used for choosing a name, open another thread please.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 14:09

Re: New crusader

I am itching to ask for a non-sword singing weapon for this background. =)
Or for a spell that makes an unbranded wielded weapon way more powerful than most other Charm class spells (erm, increasing its damage based on Charms skill or giving +3 to its base stats?), but also makes the weapon sing when used (that is, while butchering, attacking or plainly swinging at nothing it makes not too loud, but still hearable noise, like humming, chiming or crackling).
Though I doubt whether this spell is going to find any real use, I think it might be a Really Nice Addition for a Skald with a good sword.

Gee, it's too bad this game is in English. -.- I am so-o-o inclined to add a few flavor lines to the game, but my grammar knowledge still leaves much to be desired...
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 14:32

Re: New crusader

No, the singing sword is a unique and interest artefact. Let's not dilute the flavour by making its behaviour a brand spell available right from the start.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 15:30

Re: New crusader

danr wrote:Lord Frick, you're overreacting a touch.


I might overreact to the fact that you managed to ludicrously massacre my nickname... Do you think if I wanted to be called "Lord Frick" I would chose "lordfrikk" instead? Sorry for the off-topic, but ugh...
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 26th June 2011, 16:09

Re: New crusader

galehar wrote:No, the singing sword is a unique and interest artefact. Let's not dilute the flavour by making its behaviour a brand spell available right from the start.

That's okay. =) Another reason to skim through the Pandemonium, perhaps.
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Monday, 27th June 2011, 11:32

Re: New crusader

What about a "lucky" charm ? While activated there is a high probability of being lucky in some senses:
- When you find a monster it belongs to a lesser class than it would be generated otherwise, or it is asleep.
- When you find money, the amount increases respect it was normally. Also for projectiles
- When you find a potion, if it was harmful now it's neutral, if it was neutral, now it's healing.
- You don't find cursed items.
etc.

Basically it's an aura alteration of the RNG to your benefit.
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.

Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 27th June 2011, 12:24

Re: New crusader

How about Minstrel?
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Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 27th June 2011, 12:30

Re: New crusader

The name change is done, please stop suggesting new ones. I've said that several times already.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 04:17

Re: New crusader

Roderic wrote:What about a "lucky" charm ? While activated there is a high probability of being lucky in some senses:
- When you find a monster it belongs to a lesser class than it would be generated otherwise, or it is asleep.
- When you find money, the amount increases respect it was normally. Also for projectiles
- When you find a potion, if it was harmful now it's neutral, if it was neutral, now it's healing.
- You don't find cursed items.
etc.

Basically it's an aura alteration of the RNG to your benefit.


Waaay too good. No downsides activating this constantly while exploring.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 04:23

Re: New crusader

Lucky Charm (lv.9 Charm):
1. Increases your damage by altering the RNG (so you get max damage more often).
2. Decreases the damage you receive, the way #1 is done.
3. etc (basically altering the RNG for tactical purposes (so no effect on scroll of acquirement, for example, since it's not tactical)).

:)

Bim

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Post Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 15:26

Re: New crusader

I've had a few goes as a pure War Chanter (as in, I've not used spells from other books), and I've not seen much of a difference with the shroud on or off. I tend to cast it before every battle of significance after the other appropriate weapon buff, but I can't say its ever seemed to help much. Has anyone else noticed much of a difference? I'm all for the spell, but it seems a bit weak at the moment compared to something like stoneskin or ozzys armour. Not that it needs to be the same, but it just seems a tad unnoticible.

edit: I do, REALLY like the flavour with it. A very original spell with great flavour text, however, as said, it just seems a bit un-noticeable. Could it possibly be altered to be a bit stronger but be shorter? or vice versa.
2012 Winner of fewest proposed ideas implemented by devs.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 29th June 2011, 21:06

Re: New crusader

Not to ignore the entire discussion, but isn't this character now, effectively, exactly what most of us imagine a Reaver is or SHOULD be?

Multiple blade/weapon ways of inflicting damage, quick-healing, and hard-to-kill from afar. Add in swiftness as an added touch, and call it a day. Reaver. Almost like a vampire in feeling, yet nothing like a vampire.

I played one when I started Crawl, and switched to Crusader when the class was dropped. It was the logical class to transfer to. This is the exact class type I play in most RPGs--regenerative, close-up damage options to start, long-range defense, with an eye towards heavier spellcasting as the character develops.

Reaver.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 29th June 2011, 21:08

Re: New crusader

sry, missed Galehar's most recent post.

Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 2nd August 2011, 12:43

Re: New crusader

It's been a while since I followed Crawl... did you really change crusaders into skalds? Oh no... worst name since arcane marksman, but in a new and creative way.

Skald is a heavily culture-bound term. It may sound exotic and cool to you, but I come from that culture, and sorry, there's just no way I can look at a naga skald or a merfolk skald without groaning. Maybe if you had a class named "beat poet", you'd understand the embarrassment I feel. Actually, beat poet would have been better. Why change from one worth with inappropriate cultural baggage to another? I thought the reason Crawl had no "druids" or "bards" was that you didn't approve of this sort of thing. What's next in groan-inducing cultural terms? should we rename enchanters "geishas", perhaps?

Thank God Crawl is open source. I'm going to change every occurrence of "skald" into "beat poet" in my local copy, I'm telling you.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 4th August 2011, 16:49

Re: New crusader

It doesn't make me groan, but then I don't understand the cultural baggage like you do.

However, it does seem rather out of place on the list when picking a background.

A bit like going into a restaurant, and the items on the menu are beef, pork, chicken, fish and karjalanpiirakat; something doesn't seem quite right...

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 5th August 2011, 08:38

Re: New crusader

Skald is just a name. We can change it a later time (would've been good to have vintermann's feedback earlier), but I don't think it is urgent.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 5th August 2011, 21:03

Re: New crusader

dpeg wrote:Skald is just a name. We can change it a later time (would've been good to have vintermann's feedback earlier), but I don't think it is urgent.


Going off the theme of the book name I like the name "Battle-Crier". (I like Bim's term "War Chanter" but that's too similar to the book. Warcharmer, maybe? Warlord?) Though, like you said, it's not urgent.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 6th August 2011, 00:01

Re: New crusader

Let's not use any that were rejected for use in late 3.5E D&D splatbooks for being too bland and generic, hey? Let's stick with using words that are actually words.

Any chance we can get a moratorium on complaints about the new background name for a bit, by the way? Skald hasn't technically even been in an official release yet, so it cannot possibly be argued that it has gotten a fair chance at acceptance. I do appreciate the sudden influx of people proud of their Scandinavian heritage who can't bear to see Crawl sully this historical position, mind you, I just don't want to rehash the argument again every time a new commit hits gitorious.

Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 6th August 2011, 00:23

Re: New crusader

galehar wrote:The name change is done, please stop suggesting new ones. I've said that several times already.

Not that it can never change (see also megabats :(), but yeah.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 8th August 2011, 22:53

Re: New crusader

Jeremiah wrote:A bit like going into a restaurant, and the items on the menu are beef, pork, chicken, fish and karjalanpiirakat; something doesn't seem quite right...


My thoughts, exactly. But hey, the name change is done, it's set in stone now :roll:
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 9th August 2011, 04:49

Re: New crusader

I hardly doubt anything in Crawl is set in stone... well, except the stone itself.
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