duvessa wrote:Siegurt wrote:Off the top of my head, reasons that aptitudes alone don't suffice:
1. There's XP aplenty, it's viable to train a skill to 27 even on a race that has poor aptitiudes for it.
2. There's a variety of weapons in each weapon class it's reasonable to try to give some races aptitudes to use a subset of those weapons is reasonable from a racial balancing standpoint. Trying to use aptitiudes alone to do so severly restricts the kinds of races we can make. Trying to make triple crossbows not practical to use for small races by giving small races large aptitude penalties, on the basis that they're small alone, means that even the smallest, lightest crossbows are unusable for small races.
1. Do you use axes on high elves or maces on merfolk?
Rarely, but sometimes, if I found for example a demon whip with a good brand while I was still using a spear or trident, heck yes I'd use it on a merfolk, it takes less XP with a merfolk's poor aptitude to get to min delay with a demon whip than it does to get a bardiche to min delay with merfolk's exellent aptitude. Aptitude doesn't dictate weapon choices, it only makes them more or less efficient to do so.
duvessa wrote:2. In Crawl, bigger weapons are better with very few exceptions (demon weapons, eveningstar, double sword), and different weapons in the same class do not act differently. The effect of taking away large weapons is that the weapon class becomes worse. Aptitudes accomplish the same thing.
The effect of taking away large weapons is to make the *average* weapon in a given class worse, and make the *best* weapons available in a given class rarer. You don't use the average weapon you find though, you use the best weapon you've found in a class you have XP invested in, or perhaps not invested in, particularly if you find one that cross trains or is reasonable to train, or if you find one before you've invested lots of XP in something else, it's totally worth using a weapon with low aptitude, particularly when such a weapon is better than anything else you could be using by a significant margin.
Weapon limitations restrict the *availabilty* of "best" weapons, Aptitudes restrict the *efficiency* of using the best weapon available. The two are related, but don't accomplish the same goals or have the same results in practice.
Handedness has a much less dramatic effect, mostly the availability of a shield (Yes, there's the offhand punch as well, but that's pretty minor, If I was going to commit to a one-handed weapon I think a shield is pretty much the obvious choice there) The presence or absence of a shield is rarely the determining factor for me in whether to use a given weapon.
All of the suggestions I've read so far to supplant the existing system with a different one appear to me to be at least as complicated and difficult to understand. As arbitrary and capricious as the current system is, it's at least clear while playing the game whether a given bit of equipment that you have in your possession is one handed, two handed or unusable (Planning on upgrading to a bit of equipment you don't actually have yet is poor play in any case)
I guess it might be sort of nice if there was a label of some sort which could be used to derive the expectation of whether you could use a given weapon one handedly, two handedly or not at all with any given race, (someone mentioned a "weapon size" at some point) However learning the "rules" for how that labeling system would work doesn't sound any prettier or nicer than the current system, and trying to figure out what kind of weapon you might or might not be able to use with a race you're not playing right now seems like meta-information at best, and not really relevant to the game you're playing at that moment.