GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly spoily


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Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 06:16

GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly spoily

So, i've finally got a new char that *might* survive after losing my nigh-invincable GrBe of tso (he was a monster...) +9 great mace of holy wrath, +9 anti magic executioners axe, +9 triple crossbow of holy wrath, dragonking armour, almost full resists, gauntlets of war, randart slaying gear with resists,70 ac with 20ish ev (ring of the shoalin and dodging), spellcasting (haste, etc)... stupid mummies on level 20-21 of the first zig i ever entered. shoulda just stuck to killing the pan lords, he could have VERY easily pulled off a 15 runer, but instead died with 11. -_-

Anyways.
This guy isn't doing so well, he's BARELY surviving each branch of the vaults (now way in hell am i stepping down to vaults:5 at this point), he needs some serious buffing, but i'm not sure which direction to take him.
My crystal ball of energy is still failing quite a lot and draining int, havent found any sustain abilities, only two pots of restore abilities and royal jellies don't seem to restore abilities anymore?
I'm thinking of i'm going to survive, I'm going to have to switch to makhleb or vehemut, or possibly ash->tso after reskilling my necromancy (hp-mp restoring shatter, the i think off-guard enemies would become a problem).

I've noticed the aptitudes aren't effected as much in this new version. (i'm used to 0.7-0.10, and a LOT has changed since then)
would it be viable to get tornado online with this guy?
it says he's only got a -2 apt for it, and somehow i find myself allured to the idea of running tornado and using shatter to take out everyone in los. (sounds like a really good way to die in tomb though)

I also have an option for melee, as i have a (now +9) holy eudimon blade i took off of a daeva that almost killed me the second time i got banished in elf-3 (shatter didn't work so well on it, ran out of mp and had to melee it x_x).
I've used 5-6 scrolls of acquirement on armour to cover some resists as well, and not a single one yielded anything good (the best i've got was that helm of intelligence, and that rpois cloak for my gargoyle, ha....).
there's a +6 slaying +4 shield in the shop that could very well turn this guy into an okish melee character, which is why i've been training shields (when i run out of mp, it's bad, it's really bad- and still no clarity for wucad mu).

Still no sublimation, either, so mp problems are very serious when the crystal ball isn't an option. is sublimation of blood still a spell at all or did they remove it?
No iron shot yet either, or LCS- I may have to train fire (or air for a really paradoxical char, if i could survive long enough to get something decent online for it).
I'm badly missing a mid level nuke, and stone arrow and lrd aren't cutting it any more, and shatter is too expensive, takes several casts to kill even somewhat weak enemies (ironbrand convokers, vault sentinals, yacktaurs, etc, and cross your fingers that it isn't flying)

IDK, at this point i'll take any advice i can get on how i should stay alive- the last magic-type i got anywhere with was my old tornado-spamming HeAE of ash in like 0.8-0.9, and things were a bit different, before tornado was nerfed.
- Speaking of things being different, do I need any more armour skill at all? (they changed armour penalties a lot, given that my GrBe could cast in something heavier than cpm fairly easily)

All i know is, if I don't do something, i'm going to die very soon, and I'm not sure what my next step should be if I'm going to survive vaults:5 and the depths let alone hell, pan, the abyss and zot.
Any advice is very appreciated. Tyvm.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.2 (tiles) character file.

solitude the Petrodigitator (GrEE)                 Turns: 82399, Time: 08:08:59

HP 124/124       AC 40     Str 17      XL: 22   Next: 79%
MP  43/43        EV 10     Int 21 (27) God: Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold 822         SH  5     Dex 10      Spells: 12 memorised, 13 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     b - +10 trident "Mnizoo" {pain, +Blink}
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     i - +6 mottled dragon armour
rNeg   + + .     rCorr    .     q - +0 buckler {rN+}
rPois  +         rRot     +     g - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     p - +2 cloak {rPois}
SustAb .         Warding  .     C - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     y - +0 pair of boots
Gourm  +                        T - amulet of the gourmand
MR     +....                    G - ring of protection from cold
                                V - ring of protection from fire

@: flying, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, negative energy resistance 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC
+16
a: Stop Flying, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 45 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 4982 gold pieces.
You have spent 4160 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 b - the +10 trident "Mnizoo" (weapon) {pain, +Blink}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It lets you blink.
 o - the +9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
Missiles
 e - 325 stones (quivered)
Armour
 g - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 i - a +6 mottled dragon armour (worn)
 p - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 q - a +0 buckler of positive energy (worn)
 y - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 C - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
Magical devices
 d - a wand of frost
 l - a wand of enslavement (8)
 w - a wand of teleportation (2)
 H - a wand of teleportation
 R - a wand of digging (10)
 U - a wand of fire (0)
Comestibles
 f - a slice of pizza
 h - a bread ration
 k - 8 meat rations
 r - 14 fruits
 u - a rotting chunk of giant frog flesh
 F - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 j - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 s - 5 scrolls of identify
 A - 2 scrolls of blinking
 B - a scroll of fog
 J - a scroll of silence
 L - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 O - 9 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 t - an uncursed ring of magical power
 v - an uncursed ring of magical power
 x - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 G - a ring of protection from cold (right hand)
 S - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 T - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 V - a ring of protection from fire (left hand)
 Y - the ring "Bokob" {+/*Tele +Fly SInv}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   
   It causes random teleportation, and can be evoked to teleport at will.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you fly.
Potions
 c - 2 potions of curing
 m - a potion of brilliance
 D - 2 potions of magic
 E - 7 potions of heal wounds
 I - 4 potions of haste
 K - 9 potions of resistance
 M - an emulsified silvery potion
Books
 n - Lehudib's Handbook of Attacks and the Volcanoes
   (You found it on level 3 of the Vaults)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Throw Flame                        Conjuration/Fire             2
   Sticky Flame                       Conjuration/Fire             4
   Bolt of Magma                      Conjuration/Fire/Earth       5
Magical staves
 a - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Miscellaneous
 z - a crystal ball of energy
Rods
 P - a +8 lightning rod (13/13)
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)


   Skills:
 * Level 8.6 Fighting
 - Level 4.0 Armour
 - Level 1.5 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 * Level 6.6 Shields
 * Level 19.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 3.1 Conjurations
 * Level 7.2 Charms
 * Level 10.5 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Translocations
 - Level 0.7 Transmutations
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 * Level 12.5 Evocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
b - Agony                 Necr           ######..     1%          5    None
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   0%          5    None
d - Dispel Undead         Necr           ######..     1%          5    None
e - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     0%          2    None
f - Twisted Resurrection  Necr           ######....   1%          5    None
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #####.       1%          2    None
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #####...     1%          2    None
x - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          1%          4    None
z - Shatter               Erth           #######...   10%         9    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:12
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (4/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3     Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 (   D:5 *   D:6 :   D:9 (*?   D:15 %   Orc:1 (   Orc:2 [   Orc:3 ?   Orc:4 %((?   Elf:1 [   Elf:3 (   Vaults:1 }   Vaults:3 *


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +16).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 06:32

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

You were talking about how your previous character was so powerful - but crawl has situations that can kill almost any character, no matter how powerful. To maximize success you should still be timid, even if you're strong. Overconfidence is one of the chief causes of death.

For future reference, you've trained earth magic way too high. You can usually stop at no more than 20 with most magic schools. Those last few levels are far more expensive. I see you were trying to get shatter up - but it's too soon, and your int is pretty low to cast shatter so early.

Your defenses aren't too bad. I suspect you're getting hurt because you're diving into situations and making tons of noise, instead of luring a few enemies at a time back to a safe area to kill. Use stair dancing, and only use shatter very sparingly and near stairs because of the unwanted attention it attracts.

The main problem I see for your character is dealing with flying enemies.

Never do vaults:5 after vaults:4. Vaults:5 is for after depths:5. It's a serious leap in difficulty.

If I were you, my priorities would be:
1. If there's iron shot or lehudib's crystal spear (LCS) available, train conjurations 100% until you can cast it. This will let you deal with dragons etc.
2. If there isn't, train long blades 100% to 12 and use that eudaemon blade. Do this anyway after getting LCS or iron shot, if they are available. A +9 eudaemon blade is one of the best weapons in the game. Your trident is junk by this stage of the game.
3. Train more dodging to about 10, then train more dodging and fighting.
Last edited by Berder on Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 06:38, edited 3 times in total.
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251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
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Slime Squisher

Posts: 342

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 06:35

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

your skillplan is a mess

  Code:
* Level 8.6 Fighting
 - Level 4.0 Armour
 - Level 1.5 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 * Level 6.6 Shields
 * Level 19.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 3.1 Conjurations
 * Level 7.2 Charms
 * Level 10.5 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Translocations
 - Level 0.7 Transmutations
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 * Level 12.5 Evocations


way too much earth magic and spellcasting for a 3 rune game. get more dodging, fighting and armour skill in that order. you absolutely need more MR or you risk frustrating death due to increasing risk of paralysis (vampire knights are common in depths, also sphinxes, liches, uniques). other than that you are fine, just go and win
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 06:58

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

And with that much earth magic, iron shot or LCS would (with an investment in conjurations) be excellent damage doers and a great way to kill things instead of using shatter to wake up half the level.

Shatter is a really a "Do pretty good damage to everything on the screen" vs iron shot and LCS which let you do more damage to a single target for less mana and with considerably less noise.

Also picking up bolt of magma to do decent damage to things in a line would be good.

But really, you have very undertrained defenses for your level, and dodging/fighting/armour would go a long way towards making you more durable.

Memorizing Iron shot and bolt of magma would let you make better use of your existing skills (and training conjurations to help them out would be good, but first get less glass-cannon-y)
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 07:17

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Ty for the tips.

Sounds like the concencus is to get my fighting skills up asap.
Turning dodging on, with a focus on long blades for now (and leaving on fighting)- since my shields are already above seven i'm going to leave them focused until they hit 9 so i can cast in that +6 slaying shield.

And no, sadly, no lcs or iron shot are available- i haven't found a single book containing them in this run (i use ctrl+f to look for the spells i'm missing frequently).
No haste either for that matter (waste of charms skill, hah).
I'll continue to keep an eye out for them, as well as sublimation- how could sublimation not be gifted when i went the kiku route just so i could get it early?

I know my earth magic and spellcasting are quite high, but I was just trying to get shatter castable- it's still at 6% even with my wiz staff, and it was much, much worse before, even with every point put into int.
Shatter also still takes a LOT of hunger to use, thus the spellcasting- probably a mistake, but at some point i realized i was never going to find that staff of energy i was hoping for, and i guess i went (quite) a bit overboard.
I was planning on attempting a 15 runer, but the rng doesn't seem to agree with this idea, at all- it's given me plenty of useful things, but none of the ultra common things i need to make use of them (like clarity for wucad mu...).

I've got the first level of the depths cleared with a lot of stair hopping using shatter, for now.
Would bolt of magma be an ok fill in for iron shot until i find it?
I've never used it do to it requiring 3 schools, but with my rediculous earth magic/spellcasting and meager conjurations i'm thinking it might be viable.
(EDIT: slegurt already answered my bolt of magma question, tyvm!)

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 07:21

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

A +10 trident of pain with 10-ish Necro is a very good weapon for normal game and not junk at all. Well, it would be better with Polearms skill.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Joined: Tuesday, 23rd December 2014, 23:39

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 07:31

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Sar wrote:A +10 trident of pain with 10-ish Necro is a very good weapon for normal game and not junk at all. Well, it would be better with Polearms skill.

Perhaps. Anyway, the +9 eudaemon blade is going to be better once he gets some skills trained.
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Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 07:38

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Sar wrote:A +10 trident of pain with 10-ish Necro is a very good weapon for normal game and not junk at all. Well, it would be better with Polearms skill.

It's quite far from trash. i've been getting some good use out of it even with 0 skill investment. (i also have a +6 lajatang of pain as well as the necronomicon, heh).
since i have my +9 eudimon blade I'm wanting to go longblades however, but against living things even with 0 aptitude I can take dragons and such out with that trident fairly easily,
but i prefer to avoid melee if possible at this point until i get less squishy, though it handles centaurs, etc. quite well if i'm not in los of a bunch of them.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 07:56

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Swinging a weapon with 0 skill means giving away free hits to your enemies. You may be feeling slightly squishier than you "really" are in melee just because you're getting hit 1.x times more than necessary. Whichever weapon you want to use, it would be super cheap to get the 5-ish levels needed to bring it down at least to 1.0 if not mindelay.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 08:51

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

I'm not very experienced, especially with spellcasters, so maybe it's stupid what I'm writing. I'm currently playing a GrFE at about the same stage (just cleared depths2) and have Sticky Flame at high level castable and it absolutely rocks with a Gr, I'm meleeing nearly everything at this time in a robe with a staff and sticky-flame + sometimes Ozocubus Armor.

Since you need a bolt-spell anyway and bolt of magma is fine (I use it only against fire-resistant opponents but it works ok) it may be a good idea to invest some points in fire + conjuration.

Also, more fighting. I have trained dodging on advice for 10 levels but am still not sure if it was worth it, got 4 ev points with dex 10 and robe. don't know if I will invest more.

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 08:53

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

tedric wrote:Swinging a weapon with 0 skill means giving away free hits to your enemies. You may be feeling slightly squishier than you "really" are in melee just because you're getting hit 1.x times more than necessary. Whichever weapon you want to use, it would be super cheap to get the 5-ish levels needed to bring it down at least to 1.0 if not mindelay.

I'm aware of this, which is why melee has been a last resort, or used to save mp against enemies that can't hurt me too much in corridors, like death yacks, centaurs, etc.
I was holding off on training a weapon skill for a while, because I couldn't decide between going long blades, pole arms or staves (i had a good randart long blade before the eudimon, while staffs synergize better with casters).
When I first rolled this char my intention was to be a pure spellcaster, but with all these goodies i've gotten I think the rng is strongly hinting that I should be a hybrid, heh.

As of right now:
My shields are now at 9, and my long blades are at 10.8, and fighting is at 11 now. the +6 slaying on my shield effectively gives me a 20 base damage +9 eudomon blade, besides the 15 sh. (or is slaying applied after the holy modifier, in which case.. meh)
Finally found haste and crystal spear, though I can't learn crystal spear yet, so after I get to min delay for my weapon I'm going to work on a bit of conjurations while I train fighting and dodging.
I might want a bit more in charms so haste is more reliable (12% fail even with wiz+), but that can wait as I found a wand of hasting as well, luckily.

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 09:02

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Another question: I haven't had one potion or scroll be destroyed lately, even when I'm bombarded by fire and ice; did they remove item destruction?

Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 09:19

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

ichbins wrote:I'm not very experienced, especially with spellcasters, so maybe it's stupid what I'm writing. I'm currently playing a GrFE at about the same stage (just cleared depths2) and have Sticky Flame at high level castable and it absolutely rocks with a Gr, I'm meleeing nearly everything at this time in a robe with a staff and sticky-flame + sometimes Ozocubus Armor.

Since you need a bolt-spell anyway and bolt of magma is fine (I use it only against fire-resistant opponents but it works ok) it may be a good idea to invest some points in fire + conjuration.

Also, more fighting. I have trained dodging on advice for 10 levels but am still not sure if it was worth it, got 4 ev points with dex 10 and robe. don't know if I will invest more.

I'll give sticky flame a go, can't hurt- it would probably save me some mp for sure in some situations.

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Tuesday, 1st November 2011, 20:16

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 09:46

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

There are ways you can combine Earth Magic and Necromancy -- using LRD to turn your own skeletons into walking bone bombs, for example -- but in this case you've used your resources to develop abilities that directly interfere with each other. On the one hand, you've picked up two major Necromancy spells for creating undead allies, as well as worshipping Kiku, who provides abilities for generating more allies. You're also fortunate enough to have a weapon that works with Necromancy. That foundation alone should be enough to bring you through the game. However, you've spent the vast majority of your exp rushing Shatter, which is the absolute worst spell in the game for combining with ally play. So you're certainly not getting the most benefit from your god, especially since some of the abilities are partially redundant with being a gargoyle anyway.

Sublimation of blood still exists, but it does not work on chunks anymore. I've never really used the new version in game, so I can't comment on its usefulness. Kiku now grants partially randomized spellbooks, so it's no longer guaranteed to get all the Necro spells.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 09:46

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Slaying nowadays is equivalent to weapon enchantment. 6 slaying is good, though.

Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 10:10

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

JFunk wrote:There are ways you can combine Earth Magic and Necromancy -- using LRD to turn your own skeletons into walking bone bombs, for example -- but in this case you've used your resources to develop abilities that directly interfere with each other. On the one hand, you've picked up two major Necromancy spells for creating undead allies, as well as worshipping Kiku, who provides abilities for generating more allies. You're also fortunate enough to have a weapon that works with Necromancy. That foundation alone should be enough to bring you through the game. However, you've spent the vast majority of your exp rushing Shatter, which is the absolute worst spell in the game for combining with ally play. So you're certainly not getting the most benefit from your god, especially since some of the abilities are partially redundant with being a gargoyle anyway.

Sublimation of blood still exists, but it does not work on chunks anymore. I've never really used the new version in game, so I can't comment on its usefulness. Kiku now grants partially randomized spellbooks, so it's no longer guaranteed to get all the Necro spells.


I agree... I find myself oscillating between "hide behind my hoards of undead meat shields while bashing/pelting baddies to death" and "sacrifice all my minions by using shatter, they aren't going to help me here".
It's not completely horrible, though- they give me two major panic buttons at least. My armies do protect me a great deal, and when things get too crazy I still have my ghetto slouch to pull me through.
I'm planning on switching from kiku, I probably should have already.
I probably want to wait until after crypt/tomb to do so, though.
The big question is, vehemut or makhleb.
If I can get an item or mutation that grants clarity, I can use the staff of wucad mu for mp which from what I've read is better than a crystal ball of energy, and use shatter to regain massive amounts of hp in emergencies, followed (if applicable) by raising new hoards of undead to distract my enemies while i recooperate, rinse and repeat (pretty tyranical, destroying my allies each time- I hope they don't form a union or something, then I'd really be in trouble..)

EDIT: I also removed twisted resurection shortly after my first post, I just wanted to see how useful it was- I didn't like it very much, it seemed extremely weak compared to animate dead.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 10:24

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

killdudes wrote:Another question: I haven't had one potion or scroll be destroyed lately, even when I'm bombarded by fire and ice; did they remove item destruction?

Yes.
...KoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEEHOIE

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 11:16

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Sprucery wrote:
killdudes wrote:Another question: I haven't had one potion or scroll be destroyed lately, even when I'm bombarded by fire and ice; did they remove item destruction?

Yes.

That's awesome. I hated having my items destroyed- crawl is more than difficult enough without that feature.
Now I can actually bring some potions and scrolls for emergencies without them all burning to ash / shattering before I get to use them! :D
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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 11:23

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Yeah, removing item destruction was the second best single development decision in Crawl's history.

(The best one was allowing all species-background combinations (well, not all, but close enough).)
...KoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEEHOIE

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 12:19

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Well, great advice so far- melee skills have been a life saver (cutting through titans like butter now), and shatter came in very handy in vaults:5. (stupid vault wardens think they can stop ME from stair hopping? HAH!)
Cleared the crypt as well, getting ready for... Tomb? I have a feeling it will be my final resting place; I'm thinking of getting the hell runes first, but I don't want to go there without fast HP recovery. (makhleb is sounding very handy right now)
However, I don't want to go into tomb without the miscast protection from the mummy curses. (kiku)
So it looks like I'm going to have to do tomb early... scary- how reliable will makhlebs healing be if I shatter spam tomb, as opposed to kiku's protection from their nastiest effects?

Edit: took on the slime pits first, the royal jelly felt the wrath of my newly acquired lcs, bolt of magma + every wand I had in my inventory with my mediocre evocations skill while I stood in a corridor tanking a pathetic azure jelly it spawned :twisted:
I think any other type of jelly would have been problematic (corrosion is nasty), but with my rC+ stealth ring the azure jelly next to me allowed me to completely ignore the dangers of the other jellies.
Now, for tomb......... heh. was a good run while it lasted.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.2 (tiles) character file.

solitude the Petrodigitator (GrEE)                Turns: 110752, Time: 11:20:00

HP 172/172       AC 46     Str 18      XL: 27
MP  46/46        EV 15     Int 29      God: Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold 2246        SH 15     Dex 10      Spells: 15 memorised,  3 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     (no weapon)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     i - +6 mottled dragon armour
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     U - +4 shield of the Shoals {Slay+6}
rPois  +         rRot     +     g - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     R - +2 cloak
SustAb +         Warding  .     C - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     d - +2 pair of boots {Stlth+}
Gourm  +                        T - amulet of the gourmand
MR     ++...                    q - ring "Deqyiso" {rC+ Stlth+}
                                y - ring "Oboxog" {SustAb Slay+2}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, negative energy resistance 1,
electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC
+20
a: Fly, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, silver, gossamer


You are on level 13 of the Dungeon.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and seen 54 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 8026 gold pieces.
You have spent 5780 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 eudemon blade of holy wrath
 e - the +13 sword of the Doom Knight {pain, -Cast MR+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage
   on living creatures.
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It prevents spellcasting.
 o - the +9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
Armour
 d - a +2 pair of boots of stealth (worn)
 g - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 i - a +6 mottled dragon armour (worn)
 C - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 R - a +2 cloak (worn)
 U - the +4 shield of the Shoals (worn) {Slay+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+6).
Magical devices
 f - a wand of lightning
 B - a wand of fire
 F - a wand of fire (3)
 G - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
 H - a wand of teleportation (9)
 M - a wand of hasting (6)
 O - a wand of teleportation
Comestibles
 h - 2 bread rations
 k - 15 meat rations
 p - a beef jerky
 r - 13 fruits
Scrolls
 j - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 m - a scroll of fog
 s - a scroll of silence
 t - a scroll of vulnerability
 A - 3 scrolls of blinking
 J - 2 scrolls of fear
 N - a scroll of enchant weapon
 X - a scroll of identify
 Z - a scroll of remove curse
Jewellery
 l - the ring of the Stars {MR+ Str+3 Dex-3}
   (You took it off a deep elf fighter on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 q - the ring "Deqyiso" (right hand) {rC+ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 v - an uncursed ring of magical power
 x - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 y - the ring "Oboxog" (left hand) {SustAb Slay+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of sustain abilities]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
 L - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 S - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 T - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 V - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 W - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 Y - the ring "Bokob" {+/*Tele +Fly SInv}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   
   It causes random teleportation, and can be evoked to teleport at will.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you fly.
Potions
 c - 6 potions of curing
 u - a potion of brilliance
 D - 2 potions of magic
 E - 9 potions of heal wounds
 I - 6 potions of haste
 K - 9 potions of resistance
 Q - a potion of might
Books
 n - a book of Dreams   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Ensorcelled Hibernation            Hexes/Ice                    2
   Flight                             Charms/Air                   3
   Phase Shift                        Translocation                5
   Shadow Creatures                   Summoning                    5
   Mass Confusion                     Hexes                        6
   Darkness                           Hexes                        7
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 w - an uncursed staff of earth
Miscellaneous
 z - a crystal ball of energy
Rods
 P - a +8 lightning rod (13/13)
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)


   Skills:
 + Level 17.7 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Long Blades
 - Level 4.0 Armour
 + Level 13.8 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 9.0 Shields
 - Level 20.3 Spellcasting
 * Level 10.6 Conjurations
 - Level 7.6 Charms
 - Level 10.8 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Translocations
 - Level 0.7 Transmutations
 - Level 2.1 Fire Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 - Level 13.0 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       0%          3    None
b - Agony                 Necr           #######.     1%          5    None
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    None
d - Dispel Undead         Necr           #######.     1%          5    None
e - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     0%          2    None
f - Haste                 Chrm           ######..     21%         6    None
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
h - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    None
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
j - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      #######..    1%          6    None
k - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ######....   4%          4    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ######..     1%          2    None
x - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          1%          4    None
z - Shatter               Erth           ########..   10%         9    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:12
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
    Zot (0/5) Depths:5   
Last edited by killdudes on Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 12:47

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Generally Tomb should be easy with Kiku, and you have Dispel Undead. I have no experience in Shattering the Tomb, though.
...KoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEEHOIE

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Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 12:59

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

killdudes wrote:I was holding off on training a weapon skill for a while, because I couldn't decide between going long blades, pole arms or staves.

You probably don't know this, but you could have raised all three of those skills to 10 instead of raising Earth magic from 24 to 27 (for the same experience cost). Low skill levels are much cheaper than high skill levels.

killdudes wrote:When I first rolled this char my intention was to be a pure spellcaster

You should never plan this in Crawl. The best fast weapons (like staves and demon thingies) are very good, and the required skill is very cheap.

For this message the author Magipi has received thanks:
killdudes
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56

Post Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 13:18

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Magipi wrote:
killdudes wrote:I was holding off on training a weapon skill for a while, because I couldn't decide between going long blades, pole arms or staves.

You probably don't know this, but you could have raised all three of those skills to 10 instead of raising Earth magic from 24 to 27 (for the same experience cost). Low skill levels are much cheaper than high skill levels.

To be (almost) exact, long blades and polearms to 7.2 and staves to 8.0.

Magipi wrote:
killdudes wrote:When I first rolled this char my intention was to be a pure spellcaster

You should never plan this in Crawl. The best fast weapons (like staves and demon thingies) are very good, and the required skill is very cheap.

Seconded. "A pure spellcaster" makes for a challenge game.
...KoAK}CeVM{MfWnMiAK}TeAMDrIE{FoVMVSFi}{MuVMGhGlVpMo}HaWrSpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}
DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDArHaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}
DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEEHOIE

For this message the author Sprucery has received thanks:
killdudes

Halls Hopper

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Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 04:10

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Made it to xl 27, not doing too bad but the vestibule and zot gave me some trouble. (stupid tiamat, I don't remember ever having a problem with him at this point- my resists suck)

I'm currently planning to leave fighting on until it's at 27 for my max 197 hp.
Dodging isn't yielding very much EV with my terrible dex, so I'm considering switching it off for now.

Found iron shot, but I'm planning to switch it out for IMB- it's only got 1 extra range which is not helpful (IMB has much better range).
Edit: IMB sucks now, did it get nerfed? don't remember it being an aoe either, almost max spellpower and it barely scratches things... what would be a good fill in?- iron shot has +1 range over lcs, nothing else... airstrike would be really handy...
Still no clarity, still no sublimation, though I did find a sustain abilities +2 slaying randart ring, and a pair of +1 rC+ rPois boots.
How viable would shatter be in fire dragon armour if I trained armour a bit? (I also acquired the poorly fitting armour mutation if that matters)

I'm far from weak now (tyvm everyone!);
But none of my other characters that made it to extended had the slightest problem clearing the vestibule OR zot, which concerns me- I'm not nearly 'killdudesy' enough for my tastes yet, lol. (i've yet to win but have had plenty 10-13 rune yasds)
Though tomb was a cakewalk, which it rarely ever is, so that at least is promising, though it would have been slightly easier with more necromancy for dispel undead, which I might want to forget at this point. (maybe after tartarus)

I'm wondering where I should go from here;
Would it be a bad idea to begin training a different elemental school, like fire, or air for airstrike and tornado to take care of pesky flying creatures? (what happened to the -4 aptitudes for opposing magic schools?)
Since tomb is out of the way, it's about time to switch to makhleb- healing on kills is far more useful for clearing hell than extra torment resistance; Especially since I have some innate resistance to it, plus majin-bo *might* be viable in that case.
Found a manual of invocations in zot 3 or 4 as well, perfect for switching over.

Here's my character so far:
  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.2 (tiles) character file.

solitude the Petrodigitator (GrEE)                Turns: 136744, Time: 13:55:55

HP 182/182       AC 44     Str 18      XL: 27
MP  46/46        EV 18     Int 29      God: Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold 5602        SH 15     Dex 10      Spells: 14 memorised,  1 level left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     a - +9 eudemon blade (holy)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     i - +6 mottled dragon armour
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     U - +4 shield of the Shoals {Slay+6}
rPois  +         rRot     +     g - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     m - +4 dragonskin cloak
SustAb +         Warding  .     C - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     Z - +1 pair of boots of Emauv {rPois rC+}
Gourm  +                        T - amulet of the gourmand
MR     ++...                    V - ring of protection from fire
                                y - ring "Oboxog" {SustAb Slay+2}

@: flying, repel missiles, very resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, deformed body, negative energy
resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot
immunity, AC +20
a: Stop Flying, Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion
}: 5/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, gossamer


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 14 branches of the dungeon, and seen 68 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 11382 gold pieces.
You have spent 5780 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 eudemon blade of holy wrath (weapon)
 d - the +9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
 G - a slimy trident
Missiles
 e - 35 stones (quivered)
Armour
 g - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 i - a +6 mottled dragon armour (worn)
 m - the +4 dragonskin cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Tiamat on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)
 C - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 U - the +4 shield of the Shoals (worn) {Slay+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+6).
 Z - the +1 pair of boots of Emauv (worn) {rPois rC+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
Magical devices
 u - a wand of teleportation
 H - a wand of teleportation (9)
Comestibles
 h - a chunk of iguana flesh
 k - 10 meat rations
 r - 18 fruits
 B - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 j - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 n - a scroll of fog
 A - 4 scrolls of blinking
 J - 2 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 l - the ring of the Stars {MR+ Str+3 Dex-3}
   (You took it off a deep elf fighter on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 q - the ring "Deqyiso" {rC+ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 v - an uncursed ring of magical power
 x - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 y - the ring "Oboxog" (left hand) {SustAb Slay+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of sustain abilities]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
 D - the ring "Skaqeil" {+Blink +Rage Str+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of strength]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It lets you blink.
   It lets you go berserk.
 L - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 S - the ring "Rosay" {Ice Slay+4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   
   It enhances your ice magic, and weakens your fire magic.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+4).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 T - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 V - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
 Y - the ring "Bokob" {+/*Tele +Fly SInv}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   
   It causes random teleportation, and can be evoked to teleport at will.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you fly.
Potions
 o - 10 potions of curing
 p - 5 potions of magic
 E - 6 potions of heal wounds
 I - 5 potions of haste
 K - 7 potions of resistance
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 c - an uncursed staff of energy
Miscellaneous
 f - the horn of Geryon
 z - a crystal ball of energy
Rods
 P - a +8 lightning rod (13/13)
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)


   Skills:
 + Level 21.3 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Long Blades
 - Level 4.0 Armour
 + Level 19.4 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 9.0 Shields
 - Level 20.3 Spellcasting
 * Level 16.9 Conjurations
 - Level 11.4 Charms
 - Level 10.8 Necromancy
 - Level 8.2 Translocations
 - Level 0.7 Transmutations
   Level 2.1 Fire Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 * Level 14.9 Evocations


You have one spell level left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          6    None
b - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   3%          8    #####..
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    None
d - Dispel Undead         Necr           #######.     1%          5    None
e - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     0%          2    None
f - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     3%          6    None
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
j - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      #######..    1%          6    None
k - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ######....   1%          4    None
p - Phase Shift           Tloc           ######....   2%          5    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ######..     1%          2    None
z - Shatter               Erth           ########..   10%         9    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:12
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (0/7) Hell            Geh (0/7) Hell
    Coc (0/7) Hell            Tar (0/7) Hell            Zot (4/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 (   D:5 *   D:6 :   D:9 (*?   D:15 %   Orc:1 (   Orc:2 [   Orc:3 ?   Orc:4 %((?   Elf:1 [   Elf:3 (   Vaults:1 }   Vaults:3 *

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
Slime:3 exclusion: downstairs
Slime:4 exclusion: upstairs, Dissolution


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +20).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 06:49

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

7 runes now, definitely showing some potential... although anteus and ershegal (or w/e) gave me a bit of trouble- cocytus and tartarus are cleared, now for dis- dispater might give me some trouble if I don't get haunt running soon- i invested 20 in necromancy, and am now working on a bit of summonings (i know, i know... but i already had enough invested that i figured i might as well, having the necronomicon and all)
Edit: 8 runes now... haunt was... absolutely useless against dispater, but helped slow him down a bit i guess so he wouldn't kill my executioners so fast... Tough fight, kinda. Forgetting haunt and swapping it for deaths door, I think..

  Code:
#Edit two:
'''
9 runes, managed to take out asmodeus by lrd-ing the metal grates and luring him over the lava while taking advantage of the los-blocking smoke and towards the stairs, while my hasted makhleb allies harassed him, leaving and heading back down to lcs him to death (he ended up next to me and I had just enough mp for one more shot, luck was on my side this time).
My skills are pretty messed up at this point, should have never invested in necromancy... or summoning... Oh well, deaths door *might* save my life some day.
Almost considering switching to ash for some reskilling and then back to makhleb (or tso, but I have doubts on that one), but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to explore pan while under penence...
Still at a toss up between investing in fire, air magic or slings (I really need some range, portile-projectile might just be effective with a +9 greatsling of holy wrath... so... kiku -> makhleb -> tso -> ash -> makhleb ?)
If I go slings because I like the idea of being mp efficient while I farm exp for firestorm or tornado, how far should I train them?
'''
print _.strip()
# Sorry; I had to use the code tags for what they are actually meant for, if only just once. :lol:

Slime Squisher

Posts: 415

Joined: Monday, 8th December 2014, 10:31

Location: Sweedledome

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 10:52

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

For what its worth, I would never abandon Ash, his penance is horrible. Hop gods all you like but thats one for the end of a chain imo. He applies what is basically a 'Mark' and a reversed Oka heroism to tank all your skills downwards.

He is a great god for pandemomium, his stair location ability can save you many thousands of turns finding the 5 Pan runes. And it's nice that once you pick him up you stop having to play the ID game. Theres so much Exp and piety in Pan that this is a good place to adjust your skills with his final power (which costs costly in piety if repeated)

Mahkleb is also a great endgame god, nothing wrong with ditching kiku to return to him. Personally I might go Kiku->Mahk->Ash (with the Ash switch just before Pan), but I wouldnt switch back again

About your skills...yeesh I dunno, lot going on there now. Haunt isnt really going to pull its weight vs the opponents you have remaining. The greatsling would probably be nice if you wanted a range component, but its 2 handed and isnt a fast swap against dagger/shield, would be tempted to use mahk's conjuration powers for ranged. (Or thrown if you have access to some silver javs/thawks, they do nice damage against much of the endgame). To be perfectly honest you have the tools you need. If you can retrieve hell runes then you can retrieve any runes in the game, it should be more about beefing up those abilities, new tricks needing loads of investment can be made, you have infinite exp after all, but do you really need to?

Edit: the -4 aptitudes on opposing spell schools is gone like item conservation, no anti-training exists, go nuts.
Online Wins: MiFi, GrFi, TrMo, HOGl, SpEn, {DEWz, DDNe}, {OgBe, CeHu}, FoFi, VSFi, MfGl, {HaGl, VpEn, HESk}, KoAs, DsFi, TeMo

For this message the author celem has received thanks:
killdudes

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 11:13

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

celem wrote:For what its worth, I would never abandon Ash, his penance is horrible. Hop gods all you like but thats one for the end of a chain imo. He applies what is basically a 'Mark' and a reversed Oka heroism to tank all your skills downwards.

He is a great god for pandemomium, his stair location ability can save you many thousands of turns finding the 5 Pan runes. And it's nice that once you pick him up you stop having to play the ID game. Theres so much Exp and piety in Pan that this is a good place to adjust your skills with his final power (which costs costly in piety if repeated)

Mahkleb is also a great endgame god, nothing wrong with ditching kiku to return to him. Personally I might go Kiku->Mahk->Ash (with the Ash switch just before Pan), but I wouldnt switch back again

About your skills...yeesh I dunno, lot going on there now. Haunt isnt really going to pull its weight vs the opponents you have remaining. The greatsling would probably be nice if you wanted a range component, but its 2 handed and isnt a fast swap against dagger/shield, would be tempted to use mahk's conjuration powers for ranged. (Or thrown if you have access to some silver javs/thawks, they do nice damage against much of the endgame)


Might just stick with ash then, although with my rediculously over trained skills I could probably get away with it, maybe just train long blades a few more levels.
After examining the greatsling it says that it's a one-handed weapon, so luckily I can still use it as a fast-swap if I assign it to the letter b- having a shield with a decent slaying bonus is working out quite well so far, and will stack with the sling.
It's still a toss-up between makhleb, ash or (ash -> makhleb), but it sounds like the latter is a very risky move- ty for the heads up.

Edit: No opposing aptitude penalties? Mwhahaha! Tornado spamming, shatter-bombing zig-clearing build here I come! :twisted:

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 11:29

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Anyone have an idea as to how long ash's wrath will last at XL27?
How much pan/abyss scumming would I have to do to get rid of it, after I reskill? (makhleb would make zig farming possible at that point, I think)

Edit: {
running under ash, *** piety.
I've got 11 runes now, gloorx went down like a sack of potatoes, though I overestimated myself a bit and should have teleported sooner, and should have re casted statue form on the way- leftover executioners hurt worse than I thought, but I still wouldn't classify it as a close call.
This isn't the killdudesiest character I've run by a long shot, but my defensive buffs and escape options and variety of nuke spells make for a very capable jack of all trades, master of shatter everything in los to pieces type of character.
Still no clarity! :x
}

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 134

Joined: Saturday, 4th August 2012, 07:07

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 17:57

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

killdudes wrote:Still no clarity! :x


I thought that Ashenzari gave you clarity. Or is that not until ****?

Slime Squisher

Posts: 415

Joined: Monday, 8th December 2014, 10:31

Location: Sweedledome

Post Thursday, 22nd January 2015, 18:23

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Was pretty sure that was *** for the intrinsic SInv/Clar, worth double checking. Amulets of Clarity lying on the floor will be ID'd at range by Ash and marked useless (grey) once you've gained the power through him, so you could have even passed one by now if Ash has granted it already.
Online Wins: MiFi, GrFi, TrMo, HOGl, SpEn, {DEWz, DDNe}, {OgBe, CeHu}, FoFi, VSFi, MfGl, {HaGl, VpEn, HESk}, KoAs, DsFi, TeMo

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Friday, 23rd January 2015, 02:36

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Ty dornbeast & celem- Your completely right, I completely forgot about this; I'm going to remember to ctrl+f clarity on each level of pan from here out.
Now I can FINALLY use my staff of wucad mu that I spent 1700 gold on! (from what I've read it's better than a crystal ball, I'm about to find out for myself)
Hopefully I find that amulet before I switch back to makh after I reskill- It's risky, but my skills are all so over-pumped it's not even funny; So with some grinding and healing on kills I should be able to grind out the wrath, I hope.
I should just kill the pan lords and cut my losses but I want to try to clear at least one zig, to avenge my last character to get to 11 runes.

Any tips for cerebov? He's the only pan lord I haven't killed (or even ran into) before- I lost a character a long time ago that killed 3/4 of them. (wasn't even a gameplay related yasd- accidentally shift-inserted into the wrong console tab x_x).
Also the abyss has multiple levels now, but I have only entered the first- what are the deeper levels like, and how difficult is it to get out once I enter them?

Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Wednesday, 21st January 2015, 05:14

Post Friday, 23rd January 2015, 06:41

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

Alright, Cerebov is dead (an easy fight?!); Only 2 more pan lords, the abyssal rune and the orb of zot to go.
Thanks to some great advice here, some which I followed, some which I didn't (and probably should have, for the most part)
With a few tips, I've came so far with this character, from wondering how I could possibly survive the depths to flattening pan lords like pancakes .:twisted:
I'm about at the point where I need to change the title of this page to "GrEE, feeling very overpowered. Any more tips?". xD

Can't help but to post my character dump, likely for the last time until my 15 rune yafvp 8-).
Unless lightning strikes my laptop or I do something incredibly stupid, my odds or boding quite well- I'll get revenge on this zig mummies on another run.
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.2 (tiles) character file.

solitude the Petrodigitator (GrEE)                Turns: 228741, Time: 22:34:21

HP 199/199       AC 54     Str 18      XL: 27
MP  49/49        EV 22     Int 27 (30) God: Ashenzari [*****.]
Gold 11761       SH 16     Dex 10      Spells: 15 memorised,  7 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +     a - +9 eudemon blade (holy)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     i - +6 mottled dragon armour (curse)
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     U - +4 shield of the Shoals {Slay+6}
rPois  +         rRot     +     g - +2 helmet {Int+3} (curse)
rElec  +         Spirit   .     m - +4 dragonskin cloak
SustAb +         Warding  .     F - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3} (curse)
rMut   +         Stasis   .     Z - +1 pair of boots of Emauv {rPois rC+}
Gourm  .                        O - cursed amulet of Kliseb {rMut rF+}
MR     ++...                    y - ring "Oboxog" {SustAb Slay+2}
                                D - cursed ring "Jaanihism" {rElec rF+ Int+1}

@: flying, very resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: able to fly continuously, big wings, see invisible, deterioration 1, negative
energy resistance 1, screaming 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing,
petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +20
a: Stop Flying, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion
}: 12/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
demonic, fiery, dark, gossamer


You are in Pandemonium.
You worship Ashenzari.
Ashenzari is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and seen 96 of its levels.
You have visited Pandemonium 3 times, and seen 22 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 3 times.
You have also visited: Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 18431 gold pieces.
You have spent 6670 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 eudemon blade of holy wrath (weapon)
 b - a +9 greatsling of holy wrath
 d - the +9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)
 k - the Sword of Cerebov {flame}
   (You took it off Cerebov in Pandemonium)   
   
   It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes and up to
   double damage against particularly susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades
   are also staple armaments of hydra-hunters.
Missiles
 Q - 277 sling bullets
Armour
 g - a cursed +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 i - a cursed +6 mottled dragon armour (worn)
 m - the cursed +4 dragonskin cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Tiamat on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)   
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 F - a cursed +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 R - the cursed -1 pair of gloves "Karif" {rC++ Dex-1 Int+1}
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It affects your dexterity (-1).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 U - the cursed +4 shield of the Shoals (worn) {Slay+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+6).
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 Z - the cursed +1 pair of boots of Emauv (worn) {rPois rC+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
Magical devices
 u - a wand of teleportation (8)
 M - a wand of hasting (3)
Comestibles
 l - 23 bread rations
 r - 50 fruits
Scrolls
 h - 2 scrolls of brand weapon
 j - 4 scrolls of recharging
 n - 11 scrolls of fog
 v - a scroll of amnesia
 A - 7 scrolls of blinking
 C - 12 scrolls of identify
 G - 8 scrolls of holy word
 J - 4 scrolls of fear
 P - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 V - 39 scrolls of remove curse
 X - 7 scrolls of silence
Jewellery
 c - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 q - the ring "Deqyiso" {rC+ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 t - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 x - the amulet of Kikubaaqudgha's Scorn {Spirit rPois rF+}
   (You took it off a balrug in Pandemonium)   
   
   [amulet of guardian spirit]
   
   It causes incoming damage to be split between your health and magic.
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
 y - the ring "Oboxog" (right hand) {SustAb Slay+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of sustain abilities]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
 B - the ring of the Mage {Wiz MR++ Int+3}
   (You found it on level 7 of Cocytus)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   
   It improves your spell success rate.
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 D - the cursed ring "Jaanihism" (left hand) {rElec rF+ Int+1}
   (You found it on level 7 of Tartarus)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 O - the cursed amulet of Kliseb (around neck) {rMut rF+}
   (You took it off Ereshkigal on level 7 of Tartarus)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   
   It protects you from mutation.
   It protects you from fire.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 S - the ring "Rosay" {Ice Slay+4 SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   
   It enhances your ice magic, and weakens your fire magic.
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+4).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 W - the ring of Clodae {rN+ Stlth-}
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   [ring of loudness]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 Y - the ring "Bokob" {+/*Tele +Fly SInv}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   
   It causes random teleportation, and can be evoked to teleport at will.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you fly.
Potions
 e - 12 potions of restore abilities
 f - 3 potions of cure mutation
 o - 25 potions of curing
 p - 3 potions of magic
 w - 3 potions of might
 E - 5 potions of heal wounds
 K - 9 potions of resistance
Books
 I - a book of Power   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Fulminant Prism                    Conjuration/Hexes            4
   Iskenderun's Mystic Blast          Conjuration                  4
   Venom Bolt                         Conjuration/Poison           5
   Bolt of Magma                      Conjuration/Fire/Earth       5
   Iron Shot                          Conjuration/Earth            6
   Orb of Destruction                 Conjuration                  7
 N - the Papyrus of Conjuration and Ignition
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Flame Tongue                       Conjuration/Fire             1
   Sting                              Conjuration/Poison           1
   Lightning Bolt                     Conjuration/Air              5
   Bolt of Fire                       Conjuration/Fire             6
   Delayed Fireball                   Conjuration/Fire             7
 T - a book of Unlife   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Recall                             Summoning/Translocation      3
   Animate Dead                       Necromancy                   4
   Control Undead                     Necromancy                   4
   Twisted Resurrection               Necromancy                   5
   Death Channel                      Necromancy                   6
   Simulacrum                         Ice/Necromancy               6
Magical staves
 s - an uncursed staff of energy
 H - an uncursed staff of air
Miscellaneous
 z - a crystal ball of energy


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Long Blades
 - Level 14.8 Slings
 - Level 20.0 Armour
 - Level 26.0(27) Dodging
 - Level 2.1(5.1) Stealth
 - Level 9.0(11.5) Shields
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 - Level 20.0(21.9) Conjurations
 - Level 16.0(18.1) Charms
   Level 6.0(8.7) Summonings
 * Level 26.1(27) Necromancy
 * Level 9.1(11.6) Translocations
 * Level 10.6(13.0) Transmutations
   Level 2.1(4.1) Fire Magic
 - Level 15.2(17.4) Air Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
   Level 14.0 Invocations
 - Level 16.6(18.7) Evocations


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          8    ####...
b - Portal Projectile     Tloc           ######       1%          3    None
c - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           ########..   0%          5    None
d - Death's Door          Chrm/Necr      ########..   1%          8    ####...
e - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #######.     0%          2    None
f - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     1%          6    None
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       0%          2    None
i - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          0%          2    None
j - Statue Form           Trmt/Erth      #######..    1%          6    None
k - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      #######...   1%          4    None
n - Necromutation         Trmt/Necr      #######...   1%          8    ####...
p - Phase Shift           Tloc           #######...   1%          5    None
r - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   0%          3    None
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #######.     0%          2    None
z - Shatter               Erth           ########..   3%          9    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:12
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (7/7) Hell            Geh (7/7) Hell
    Coc (7/7) Hell            Tar (7/7) Hell            Zot (4/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 (   D:5 *   D:6 :   D:9 (*?   D:15 %   Orc:1 (   Orc:2 [   Orc:3 ?   Orc:4 %((?   Elf:1 [   Elf:3 (   Vaults:1 }   Vaults:3 *

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
Slime:3 exclusion: downstairs
Slime:4 exclusion: upstairs, Dissolution


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +20).
Your wings are large and strong.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.
You are immune to rotting.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 134

Joined: Saturday, 4th August 2012, 07:07

Post Friday, 23rd January 2015, 17:21

Re: GrEE, feeling very under powered. Any tips? -possibly sp

killdudes wrote:Also the abyss has multiple levels now, but I have only entered the first- what are the deeper levels like, and how difficult is it to get out once I enter them?


Based on my one experience with an Ashenzari worshipper? It's candy for you.

You have resist mutation, a holy weapon, and the ability to see what's coming up, including portals down or out. You'll be able to recognize the pattern of an area with a rune easily, blast or carve anything that stands in your way, and shrug off most malmutation effects.

The advice I was given was to go to level 3, get the rune, and leave.

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