Tomb Titivator
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CYC, GDD Intermediary
I will admit that I acted on posting this idea because of a recent thread, but it is something I have thought about in the past.
Here's where you can make suggestions for new forums & categories, voice your opinion about the forum, etc.
Tomb Titivator
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Barkeep
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Tomb Titivator
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I find that people discuss ideas seriously in CYC pretty often, especially if you set the tone in the thread with a reasonable OP and a request for serious feedback.
I think we'd also want to consider the possibility that having multiple forums in which game design stuff is discussed, with 3 different gears of "seriousness," might actually make it harder for everyone (and devs in particular) to keep up with all the conversation(s).
All that being said, I'm open to the idea, if the community does really want a new forum.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Lair Larrikin
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KoboldLord wrote:The proposal would not solve the problem. The posters who react negatively to having their post kicked to CYC would react just as negatively to being kicked to a third forum placed elsewhere in the hierarchy. GDD is the place where a newcomer thinks important things get done by important people, and kicking them out makes them feel like they're specifically and personally being rejected from the group. The actual reasons why this is done and the fact that every poster is treated the same way don't matter, because they haven't seen the forum history leading up to this point.
That said, I wouldn't mind if the weapons-grade stupid was frowned upon even in the semi-serious CYC threads. A new poster with some terrible ideas isn't going to bother to learn how to act productively if every step gets him or her mobbed by the hyena pack.
Barkeep
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Insular Community wrote:Some new guy arrives on the forum, posts some idea (one thats doesnt step on the "design philosophy" mind you) he thinks is cool, ofc it is not fleshed out, not everyone has played this game for 30 years + is a dev himself + knows how to code it himself. Might as well make your own game if you went that far, but that's not the goal is it. Anyway, First reaction the 2-5 diehard players who have been into this game for 30 years show up and hound him down like he is some sort of vermin... "this idea is so so bad." No explanaitions given, just subjective criticism of the worst sort. I would be kinda salty too after a response like that too, why bother.
Note that this forum is not where Crawl is being actively developed, and is not farmed for ideas by developers. Visit the dev wiki to see the actual development process. However some developers do read GDD and an idea posted here does have a chance, however small, of making it into the game.
Anything posted here will receive criticism that is sometimes quite harsh, so be prepared. If you want to minimise your chances of being criticised and increase the chances that your idea will be taken seriously, spend plenty of time familiarising yourself with other proposals both successful and failed, and read and understand every point in the list that follows.
When (not if) someone criticises your idea, accept it. Listen. Adapt your proposal. Admit when you're wrong. Do not belligerently make the same case over and over. [emphasis in the original, nota bene!] Basic etiquette and the forum rules still apply. If you feel a criticism is personal or unwarranted, use the report button or pm a moderator. Be advised that the forum benefits from a certain amount of astringent criticism of new proposals, and that whining on your part will weaken or destroy your case.
Dungeon Master
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Barkeep
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Crypt Cleanser
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Greyr wrote:It seems to me that a lot of players have ideas that they would like to present in a semi-serious (albeit casual) tone, but don't necessarily want all the inherent craziness CYC has to offer. If there was an intermediary between CYC and GDD this would solve (at the very least) some hurt feelings unintentionally caused by And Into in his attempts to keep GDD as clean and prim as possible. So, simply put, I would like to see a forum that encourages gameplay related discussion, without the stiffness of GDD or laxness of CYC. It would be a place to share or bounce around ideas without the goal of having said ideas implemented, necessarily.
Greyr wrote:and into wrote:I find that people discuss ideas seriously in CYC pretty often, especially if you set the tone in the thread with a reasonable OP and a request for serious feedback.
Right, and I totally get that. I suppose it's a matter of convenience, the Tavern is mostly tame when you ask it to be. I do notice, however, that I find myself saying "Oh, it's CYC. Lemme say something stupid in an attempt to be amusing". Out loud, Obviously. I doubt that I am the only one.
Aule wrote:Well, since I just recently made my own serious post in CYC that garnered not a single serious response, but a whole lot of tangential ribbing, I can vouch.
Crypt Cleanser
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Aule wrote:(Also, tangentially, I think any post that references another poster's grammar should be deleted immediately and the poster given a warning. That's just basic netiquette. Everyone makes mistakes, and it's childish to make fun of them. Okayimdonenow)
Crypt Cleanser
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Tomb Titivator
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Arrhythmia wrote:IMO our current stable of "joke forum" and "serious forum" doesn't need "weird nether-forum wherein no progress is made and no jokes are allowed".
Aule wrote:Re: OP
This new forum could be named in the Tavern convention, "Open Mic Stage".
Yes, there will always be hecklers, but this would at least assert that amateurs can have ideas, too. In that regard, too, outright heckling should be considered beneath "counsellorship" and "barkeeping," imo. There's a larger problem if such bad manners are considered representative, I think.
Abyss Ambulator
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KoboldLord wrote:You proposed to cut felids and replace them with something almost entirely unlike felids. It would've been an okay joke thread, but if you meant it seriously then that's dirty pool, and pretty rude to boot if you thought we would actually fall for it. If you want felids to be cut, flat-out say you want them cut. Nothing wrong with that; loads of people call for felids to be cut all the time, with good arguments or terrible arguments depending on the poster in question.
If you want felids to go away, make a thread explaining why. No need to bring up an unrelated species proposal.
If you want to make a proposal for a new catperson species, make a thread proposing your new catperson species. Currently-existing felids are an unrelated topic and therefore not relevant.
Tomb Titivator
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