Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptops?


Problems running or configuring the software, commands & options, compiling, different platforms, using the interface, documentation, etc.

User avatar

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 136

Joined: Thursday, 6th November 2014, 17:19

Location: Canada

Post Friday, 21st November 2014, 05:58

Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptops?

In the Dungeon Crawl Help (?) at the top of the List of commands (??), it mentions the keyboard movement via the number pad (NumPad) and the vi keys (non-intuitive on QWERTY kb).
In crawl-tiles, what do I do on a laptop if I don't want to always access the NumPad by pressing the Fn key?
I'm just surprised that there isn't already a 3x3 set of keys that can be easily used on a standard laptop keyboard.

I'm guessing I could remap some keys by following the instructions in: Macros and Keymaps (?~).
Is this a limitation that is caused by not being able to remap a set of 3x3 set of keys without affecting existing mapped keys (such as the following keys: i, t )?

I feel I am missing something to the whole picture? ...or is this just as much a dinosaur as QWERTY?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5719

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Friday, 21st November 2014, 06:47

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Vi keys are designed for a qwerty keyboard.

Put your fingers on hjkl, your leftmost finger, on h goes left, your rightmost finger, on l goes right, j and k go down and up. (Yes there's no particular logic to which is which, but it is way faster and less finger strain than moving your fingers.) Now the diagonals, yubn are all done with your index finger, and they are all relative to its home position on h.

If you for some reason can't get used to doing it the easy way you can use control d to remap anything on your keyboard (but be advised that some macros are written with the expectation that vi keys are mapped)
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

For this message the author Siegurt has received thanks: 2
RoGGa, xentronium

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 909

Joined: Thursday, 3rd January 2013, 20:32

Post Friday, 21st November 2014, 22:35

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Some years ago I switched my keyboard layout to Dvorak, spent a month re-learning to type 60wpm with it, and haven't looked back. One interesting side effect is that the Vi keys (like all of the QWERTY-based Crawl controls) are spread out rather randomly all over the keyboard, and I forced myself to learn their positions so I wouldn't have to swap keyboard layouts all the time. Somehow this higgledy-piggledy setup feels infinitely more "intuitive" than the original Vi locations ever did. Plus I always get a laugh when someone takes a look at my screen while I'm playing and says "The way your fingers were moving all over the keyboard, I assumed you were typing!"
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)
User avatar

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 802

Joined: Sunday, 30th March 2014, 21:06

Post Saturday, 22nd November 2014, 07:24

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Oh god......
I never knew until this thread that the hjkl keys can move you. I've been using arrow keys on my right hand and yubn on my left this whole time.
Comborobin Admin

For this message the author xentronium has received thanks: 5
Arrhythmia, bel, duvessa, ldf, Nino

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 161

Joined: Thursday, 16th May 2013, 15:28

Post Saturday, 10th December 2016, 18:06

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

I use the number row at the top of my laptop keyboard, + arrow keys. Very inconvenient.

Someone on SA had his setup like this, to be WASD-like
http://i.imgur.com/39H9wiM.png



Reminder that the only reason vi keys are included is because Linley's keyboard had little arrows already drawn on the physical keys.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5719

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 11th December 2016, 01:23

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Speleothing wrote:I use the number row at the top of my laptop keyboard, + arrow keys. Very inconvenient.

Someone on SA had his setup like this, to be WASD-like
http://i.imgur.com/39H9wiM.png



Reminder that the only reason vi keys are included is because Linley's keyboard had little arrows already drawn on the physical keys.

I had always assumed it was because every other terminal based game of the era also had vi keys, notably nethack and rogue, from which Linley obviously drew a lot of inspiration.

I would actually not be willing to play a roguelike without vi keys.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8116

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 11th December 2016, 05:43

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

wait wait wait I missed this when I read it two years ago
Siegurt wrote:Now the diagonals, yubn are all done with your index finger, and they are all relative to its home position on h.
for my whole life i've been using my middle finger for u...

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5719

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 11th December 2016, 09:15

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

duvessa wrote:wait wait wait I missed this when I read it two years ago
Siegurt wrote:Now the diagonals, yubn are all done with your index finger, and they are all relative to its home position on h.
for my whole life i've been using my middle finger for u...

That is the more correct way to do it (middle finger for u and n) but i have found when explaining them to a new user, it is easier to remember "diagonals are the keys around the index finger" for a novice.
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 1

Joined: Monday, 11th December 2017, 08:43

Post Monday, 11th December 2017, 08:44

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

tedric wrote:Some years ago I switched my keyboard layout to Dvorak, spent a month re-learning to type 60wpm with it, and haven't looked back. One interesting side effect is that the Vi keys (like all of the QWERTY-based Crawl controls) are spread out rather randomly all over the keyboard, and I forced myself to learn their positions so I wouldn't have to swap keyboard layouts all the time. Somehow this higgledy-piggledy setup feels infinitely more "intuitive" than the original Vi locations ever did. Plus I always get a laugh when someone takes a look at my screen while I'm playing and says "The way your fingers were moving all over the keyboard, I assumed you were typing!"


Thank you for this post. I didn't consider just trying to play with the layout as-is until I read it, and was struggling to figure out how to get started in the game with the given limitations. I gave it a shot the way you did, and now I'm used to the layout as well, although I still think it's kind of ridiculous. But hey, a small price to pay for getting to use Dvorak in general. :) –Tony

bel

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1848

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Monday, 11th December 2017, 09:41

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Off-topic, but does Dvorak actually help you type faster or more easily? I've heard that it's mostly a myth.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 283

Joined: Monday, 18th August 2014, 20:04

Post Monday, 11th December 2017, 14:17

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

I know this thread is old but it doesn't ever seem to have received a real answer: crawl keybindings are entirely configurable, and there's a bunch of examples in settings, including a dvorak binding.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5719

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Monday, 11th December 2017, 21:54

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

advil wrote:I know this thread is old but it doesn't ever seem to have received a real answer: crawl keybindings are entirely configurable, and there's a bunch of examples in settings, including a dvorak binding.

My first reply at the top of the thread does mention rebinding the keys in passing:
Siegurt wrote:you can use control d to remap anything on your keyboard

but I don't get into any specifics or do a good job of pointing people at help resources. I'm also sure dvorak users would find the already-set-up keybindings very helpful (as setting them up yourself is sort of tedious).
Spoiler: show
This high quality signature has been hidden for your protection. To unlock it's secret, send 3 easy payments of $9.99 to me, by way of your nearest theta band or ley line. Complete your transmission by midnight tonight for a special free gift!

bel

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1848

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Saturday, 16th December 2017, 12:41

Re: Any 3rd alternative to keyboard movement keys for laptop

Is there a way to remap the Escape key to something else?

Return to Technical Support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.