proper use of apportation: doubts


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

User avatar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 719

Joined: Friday, 7th January 2011, 01:43

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:48

proper use of apportation: doubts

My NaSt of Cheibirados has found a party tricks book and has learned the apportation spell. I've tried to grab a scroll out of the sight of an orc warrior but the game said that the mass is too much. I don't understand this, it's just a scroll, not a stash. How does the apportation work and how can it be improved ?
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1567

Joined: Friday, 21st January 2011, 22:56

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:49

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Is this 0.8 or 0.9? Apportation was recently made really crappy.

Regardless, to make apportation better you need more spellpower. That means int, tloc skill and spellcasting skill.
Last edited by Galefury on Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 719

Joined: Friday, 7th January 2011, 01:43

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:51

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

0.8

Maybe it's the tloc ability, which I lack of.
Last edited by Roderic on Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1567

Joined: Friday, 21st January 2011, 22:56

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:53

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

In 0.8 non-orb apportation will either succeed or fail, depending on spell power and mass of apported items. If it succeeds it goes to your feet, if it doesn't it stays where it is. Since it's a level 1 spell it can have really low power, and thus it can fail even against light items.
User avatar

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 719

Joined: Friday, 7th January 2011, 01:43

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 13:55

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Thanks, I'll train until more success comes
duvessa wrote:Christ, you can't remove anything without tavern complaining about it.
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 14:16

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Will TRUNK apportation eventually be able to pull crap out of deep water? I ask because holy crap, I can't get anything out of there.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 14:33

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

I'm pretty sure items hidden in deep water only being accessible to merfolk, or fed worshipers, and not apportation is a deliberate design decision. Apporation is already really usefull for a lvl 1 spell, turning water into safe storage would be too much.

If the spell fails, it's just you don't have enough spell power for the weight. Train spellcasting, tloc, and / or bump Int. By the time you can apport giant clubs, you can lift the orb.

@Galefury: How was the spell nerfed exactly? I hadn't noticed a change.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 726

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 18:46

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 14:45

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

And grey draconians (the only thing they're good for).

Haven't tried it, but I think they made it sometimes only bring stuff closer to you, like how it works with the orb.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1593

Joined: Thursday, 19th May 2011, 16:38

Location: Penza, Russia

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 14:51

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

How did it change in 0.9?
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

The Verse flows throughout Aquaria...
Through each ripple and wave...
Through every living being...
The Verse binds us all as one.

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1567

Joined: Friday, 21st January 2011, 22:56

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 15:19

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Apport distance depends on power now, often items will only be drawn closer to you instead of to your feet. I suppose this can be useful in some cases, but I find it to be pretty annoying. I haven't used it much yet, maybe it gets tolerable at decent power.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1774

Joined: Monday, 21st February 2011, 15:57

Location: South Carolina

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 15:34

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Galefury wrote:Apport distance depends on power now, often items will only be drawn closer to you instead of to your feet.

Can apporting an item over lava at low spell power drop the item into the lava now?
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 15:57

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

mageykun wrote:I'm pretty sure items hidden in deep water only being accessible to merfolk, or fed worshipers, and not apportation is a deliberate design decision. Apporation is already really usefull for a lvl 1 spell, turning water into safe storage would be too much.


It's not safe; I thought Apportation at low levels can destroy items.

I figured Apportation at a HIGH level could be used to pull items out of deep water, like something useful when you take down the orcs in the bailey with memphitic cloud + drowning. I hate that they pickup all the gold. Might be nice if their zombies, which do come back, came back carrying all the items they originally had; it's not like that gold was being held in their hands. Zombie won't just take his pants off when he rises up from the deep, leaving the gold behind.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
User avatar

Dungeon Master

Posts: 4031

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 20:37

Location: France

Post Friday, 3rd June 2011, 16:45

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

XuaXua wrote:
mageykun wrote:I'm pretty sure items hidden in deep water only being accessible to merfolk, or fed worshipers, and not apportation is a deliberate design decision. Apporation is already really usefull for a lvl 1 spell, turning water into safe storage would be too much.


It's not safe; I thought Apportation at low levels can destroy items.

Not anymore, I've fixed that. And you can't apport items into lava either. Also, the formula has been improved in 0.9, this week. Apporting light items should be much easier now. I haven't tested it yet.
<+Grunt> You dereference an invalid pointer! Ouch! That really hurt! The game dies...

For this message the author galehar has received thanks:
mageykun

Blades Runner

Posts: 599

Joined: Thursday, 28th April 2011, 07:47

Post Saturday, 4th June 2011, 13:11

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

the proper use of apportation is: victory dancing translocations :)
Check out my characters at Spielersofa (in German)

For this message the author slowcar has received thanks:
pratamawirya
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Saturday, 4th June 2011, 16:53

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

minmay wrote:
XuaXua wrote:I figured Apportation at a HIGH level could be used to pull items out of deep water, like something useful when you take down the orcs in the bailey with memphitic cloud + drowning. I hate that they pickup all the gold.

Surely there should be at least a small drawback to trivializing an entire bailey by drowning the occupants with a couple casts of a level 3 spell.


It's not my fault my character and the level was built that way.

Again though, highest level Apportation won't grab items back from the depths and only Merfolk get the advantage here?

I think at that level it should at least give a % chance for acquisition on attempt.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Saturday, 4th June 2011, 17:13

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

XuaXua wrote:Again though, highest level Apportation won't grab items back from the depths and only Merfolk get the advantage here?


Grey draconians, too. There's Fedhas for everybody else.

XuaXua wrote:I think at that level it should at least give a % chance for acquisition on attempt.


A percentage chance for success is the same as guaranteed success. You can just hammer ` until you get whatever you're trying to target.
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Saturday, 4th June 2011, 18:02

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

slowcar wrote:the proper use of apportation is: victory dancing translocations :)

The proper use of apportation is: grabbing anything and everything you want as soon as it enters LOS.

There, fixed it for you. :p
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Sunday, 5th June 2011, 01:32

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

KoboldLord wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Again though, highest level Apportation won't grab items back from the depths and only Merfolk get the advantage here?


Grey draconians, too. There's Fedhas for everybody else.

XuaXua wrote:I think at that level it should at least give a % chance for acquisition on attempt.


A percentage chance for success is the same as guaranteed success. You can just hammer ` until you get whatever you're trying to target.


Guaranteed success through percentage chance does not come without cost : it takes time, for which the costs are hunger, a lower score, an increased time counter, and the potential for encounters.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Sunday, 5th June 2011, 02:26

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

XuaXua wrote:Guaranteed success through percentage chance does not come without cost : it takes time, for which the costs are hunger, a lower score, an increased time counter, and the potential for encounters.


Seriously? You're seriously arguing that such a petty, pathetic cost is capable of balancing out absolutely anything? Were we face-to-face, I would be able to do little but gape at astonishment at the sheer irrelevance of this cost and the fact that you are presenting it as if I should take it seriously, but fortunately I am typing so I can take a moment to regain my composure before I continue.

In every case, you would be able to freely wait to fetch whatever junk you wanted out of the water until the surrounding area is cleared and safe. You could also fetch the junk with some xp in the pool so you victory dance spellcasting in the process, so it would even be optimal play. Whether the chance of fetching the item is 10% or .01%, that item is eventually going to be affected and you'll have your item.

The only real difference between 100% Apportation of underwater items and 1% Apportation of underwater items is that the latter is really obnoxiously annoying. We don't really need a trivially easy but also tedious thing added to the game. Either you should be able to fetch items from deep water, or you shouldn't. This can vary from character to character, but given a particular character there is no excuse for demanding a bunch of unnecessary button mashing to pick up an item.

If you want to argue that Apportation should work on items in deep water, please do so honestly. A proposal that it should only work some of the time is an example of a False Compromise, since it has the set dressing of a compromise but awards one side everything they ask for and the other side nothing.

For this message the author KoboldLord has received thanks: 3
dolphin, mageykun, MyOtheHedgeFox

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1234

Joined: Thursday, 10th March 2011, 19:45

Post Sunday, 5th June 2011, 16:03

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Maybe if you try to apport something in deep water and fail, then there should be a chance you apport the water instead and drown yourself.

(This isn't a serious suggestion.)

For this message the author Jeremiah has received thanks: 3
mageykun, pratamawirya, XuaXua
User avatar

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1459

Joined: Sunday, 19th December 2010, 05:45

Location: New England

Post Sunday, 5th June 2011, 18:47

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

Maybe if you target a square with deep water it should result it hitting yourself with a blast of water, like aquamancers throw.

If you're dumb enough to try and apport lava? Bolt of magma. :lol:

(naturally, to avoid abuse, both smite targeted.)
User avatar

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5832

Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30

Post Monday, 6th June 2011, 00:42

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

KoboldLord wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Guaranteed success through percentage chance does not come without cost : it takes time, for which the costs are hunger, a lower score, an increased time counter, and the potential for encounters.


Seriously? You're seriously arguing that such a petty, pathetic cost is capable of balancing out absolutely anything? Were we face-to-face, I would be able to do little but gape at astonishment at the sheer irrelevance of this cost and the fact that you are presenting it as if I should take it seriously, but fortunately I am typing so I can take a moment to regain my composure before I continue.


It is a cost. Maybe it is a negligible SLASH nonexistent cost to one so experienced as yourself and those who've backed you and your unwarranted sanctimonious tone , but to inexperienced players (granted, who might not consider to memorize a utility spell such as this one), that cost is the difference between retrieving a lost item from the depths and death by starvation.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1567

Joined: Friday, 21st January 2011, 22:56

Post Monday, 6th June 2011, 00:57

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

This is almost not funny anymore. Almost.

I don't think KoboldLord's sanctimonious tone is warranted at all, but his point is valid. And you did kind of goad him into posting an elaborate and mean response by needlessly disputing his first short and polite response.
User avatar

Slime Squisher

Posts: 332

Joined: Friday, 4th February 2011, 18:04

Location: The South, US

Post Monday, 6th June 2011, 03:16

Re: proper use of apportation: doubts

XuaXua, you're right. I shouldn't have supported KL's tone. I apologize for it.

However, the content of his post is true, even wrapped in a bad tone. Giving a percent chance or probability that Apportation will pull something out of deep water means is equivalent to letting players Apport it on the first try. Surely a player wouldn't attempt to Apport something in high-tension environment: they would do it when it was safe to use Apport freely. At that point they could repetitively attempt to Apport the item until the probability (t tries * 1/P probability) approaches 1. Unless the probability were so low that the player would stand a good chance of triggering the OOD spawn, then the cost of spamming a L1 spell into grind infinity approaches 0, with the exception of normal hungering over time (wear Sust). Percent chance in this case = Grinding, which goes against the philosophy.

If I'm wrong that Percent Chance for Apportation -> Grinding, I will be glad to listen and respond.
Human kind cannot bear very much reality.
TSE

Return to Dungeon Crawling Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.