Patashu wrote:nago wrote:You could be out of tele scroll and without passwall or lrd (or having sac earth magic)
Luckily pan and abyss exist for infinite sources of all consumables if you're REALLY desperate.
(!learn add desperate I'm with ru and...)
Scumming Pan and Abyss until you find enough teleport scrolls to teleport into the slime rune chamber through sheer luck sounds like the worst idea ever. Personally, I think if a combination of sacrifices can put you into a situation where that's your best option, we may as well act as if that combination of sacrifices makes getting that rune impossible.
tasonir wrote:Lasty wrote:A solution to both issues proposed in ##crawl-dev: Apocalypse temporarily destroys all rock walls/liquids in LOS.
Edit: I think we're going to not apply any solutions for now and just say "that's the consequence of making those sacrifices."
While dig might be the simplest way to get into the slime vaults, it's far from the only one. If you gave up wands and were running slime, I think it's fair to assume the player should plan a work around for getting in. Once TRJ is dead, isn't -ctele removed? You could just control teleport in. I've done this on characters who could dig just so I wouldn't have to have slimes following me and trying to eat things. Or if I just forgot a digging wand. There's also passwall and LRD, which aren't that hard to learn, although LRD will require a fair amount of spellpower. It just encourages thinking out your character and planning for alternatives to the standard solution, which is imho the best part about Ru. 90% of my games I never read a scroll of fog, use many scrolls of fear, bother with any wands that are MR resistable (polymorph, confusion, paralyze, etc)...There's a lot of useful but not necessary items in crawl. You only need about half of them to have a "complete" solution to crawl, and so I tend to never use the other half. Ru restricts your options and you therefore either have to start using something you might ordinarily drop, or you get some god-power for completely removing it from your toolkit. Both outcomes are interesting
A single sacrifice arcana could take out earth magic and translocations, which eliminates every alternative to a wand of digging that you mentioned. There's still random teleporting, but I made my stance on that clear above.
I agree that coming up with contingency plans when your usual options are gone is interesting, but I think there are limits. Ru is all about coming up with contingency plans to make up for the things you're missing. Handling resistances with only one ring and no shield, not being able to rely on potions, wands, or evokables to escape, figuring out how to make sure you have good enough defenses with 0 dodging and/or armour.
But those are all general, interesting, strategic decisions. Personally, I don't think "I need to keep a way of getting into the Slime Vaults" or "I need a method of flight" for Coc is an interesting decision, primarily because the contingency plans for them if you've missed all your options are, in my opinion, tedious and awkward, not tricky. Fighting without your usual tools is interesting. Figuring out how to deal with situations like Vaults 5, or the Royal Jelly, or the Pan or Hell lords without whatever tools you've used on previous characters can lead to sum interesting and creating strategies. I'm not convinced the same is true for trying to navigate Coc 7 with no access to flight or Slime 6 with no access to cTele or digging. Scumming abyss for flight potions and teleport scrolls because you don't have access to flight, cTele, or digging is not fun.