God Gender

[Sandman25]

FYI
http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

[nicolae]

The roots of this kind of racism, this kind of attitude where somebody really thinks they’re superior to somebody, just because of the color of the other person’s skin? First, what it tells me, you know, my constitutionally-protected opinion about that person, is: they don’t believe in God. Nobody who believes in God can be a racist, in my view, because once you believe God made us, you mean, God made junk? God made somebody lesser just by virtue of the color of their skin? So my starting point is always: All racists must be atheists. They can’t possibly believe in God.

i didn't know you played Crawl, mister sterling

[Lasty]

I also managed to anger some atheists this morning

I'm not sure where you got the idea that my post was angry, or even that I was advocating atheism (I do, but that's not relevant).

That I think, probably, all racists are, at the end of the day, atheists.

Sure, you believe that, but that only works if you accept premises such as 1) either there is one god, or all gods are identical on this issue and 2) your interpretation of god is the definitive one and you get to decide whether other people who think they believe in god actually believe in god.

Lots of people want to think that the group of people they belong to (in this case, "believers") are inherently good in some way (in this case, not prejudiced by race), but evidence doesn't really support it unless you start believing unlikely propositions like the ones above.

Edit: It is a matter of historical record that many prominent racists have argued their position as being inherently religious, as being supported by god directly, and/or being supported by the Bible.

Edit2: I want to be explicitly clear: In this particular conversation I am not trying to make a point about the relative value of atheism and religion, save to point out that religion and prejudice are not incompatible. If someone made a similar claim about atheists being free from prejudice, I'd happily contradict that as well. I think it should already be clear that this is my intention, but I want to forestall misrepresentation.

[nicolae]

Sure, you believe that,

are you sure

[dck]

… I’m not deciding for anyone whether they believe in God. I was just making the point that, having known a lot of racists during my life — I grew up on west Philadelphia, was around many courageous civil rights champions, such as my parents — but, in that area, I was also around many true racists, including, you know, that’s where the American Nazi Party set up.

And my impression has always been that those people can’t possibly believe in God. Or there’s no way you could think somebody is lesser just because of the color of their skin. Those two ideas just can’t fit together. But I never suggested — I apologize if it was taken that way, but never could’ve imagined somebody would think I was saying that all atheists are racists. That would be a goofy thing to say. I was just saying all racists are atheists…

[Lasty]

And my impression has always been that those people can’t possibly believe in God. Or there’s no way you could think somebody is lesser just because of the color of their skin. Those two ideas just can’t fit together.

From a similar viewpoint, you could argue that no one who murders (or steals, or commits adultery, or gets a tattoo, depending on your conception of god) believes in god, but as a matter of fact, most people who do those things do believe in a god or gods -- I say "most" not to assert that believers are worse in some way, but rather because there are simply more people who profess to belief than those who do not.

But I never suggested — I apologize if it was taken that way, but never could’ve imagined somebody would think I was saying that all atheists are racists. That would be a goofy thing to say. I was just saying all racists are atheists…

That's really not much better. For example, if I said that not all people of your religion are pedophiles, but that all pedophiles are people of your religion, would you feel like that was an inoffensive statement?

[nilsbloodaxe]

I also managed to anger some atheists this morning, because I took the position, and I think this is true… that you cannot believe in God and be a racist. Because if you believe in God, then you cannot possibly believe that God made somebody inferior just because of the color of their skin.
No, I never said that all atheists are racists. In fact, I’ve never had that impression whatsoever, that any sort of big number of atheists were racist. My point is the opposite, or a different point, I should say. That I think, probably, all racists are, at the end of the day, atheists.

Yeah, this is just wrong. First, racism is not solely based on skin color, so there is that. And then we have the overt racism in lots of religions.

Judaism: The Jews are the "chosen people" who are presented as the masters of all other people. Jewish lineage is passed through matriarchal decent. There are one set of laws for the Jews and one set for everyone else. God routinely asks the Israelites to commit genocide against other ethnic groups in the promised land. Mixed marriages are denounced throughout the Torah.

Also all the shit on the sons of Noah.

2. Christianity: “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying; Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” Matthew 15:22-8

Matthew 10:5-6 tells the preachers to avoid Samaria as the word of God is only for the Israelites.

3.Islam: "The Prophet said, 'Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief.'"

"Abu Darda reported that the Holy Prophet said: Allah created Adam when he created him (sic). Then He stroke (sic) his right shoulder and took out a white race as if they were seeds, and He stroke (sic) his left shoulder and took out a black race as if they were coals. Then He said to those who were in his right side: Towards paradise and I don't care. He said to those who were on his left shoulder: Towards Hell and I don't care. - Ahmad"

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

5. http://mic.com/articles/29397/religious ... tudy-finds

6. Yazidis: Too much contact with non-Yazidis is also considered polluting. Yazidis are exclusively endogamous; clans do not intermarry even with other Kurds and accept no converts.

7. Mormonism: Up until recently blacks weren't allowed to be lay preachers. The tribes that rebelled against God were "cursed" with black skin.

And there are a lot more. Not all religions have a central tenet of "God created ALL humans equally," in fact, many do not.

[Greyr]

whatthefuckishappening

[Aule]

whatthefuckishappening

It's apparently a Tavern tradition. Ask a simple question; start a fire.

[nicolae]

whatthefuckishappening

hint: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... -atheists/

[dck]

you're not fun at all nicolae
:<

[Bloax]

whatthefuckishappening

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[Sprucery]

Ask a simple question; start a fire.

Simple? Discussions about gods _or_ genders have a tendency of getting heated. And you combined them! ;)

[Lasty]

Haha, that'll teach me to make the mistake of taking dck seriously.

[nicolae]

you're not fun at all nicolae
:<

sorry, i didn't want to be a killjoy but the feeling of "oh geez guys, come ON" was getting to be too much

edit: also known as Fremdscham in german. thank you germans. thermans.

[Sar]

Crazy Yiuf: here, we teach you how to take dck.

[nicolae]

Crazy Yiuf: here, we teach you how to take dck.

dear god, is that what the hammers are for?

[Greyr]

So the ToME forums are pretty active.

[Sar]

Thanks nicolae, now I will never be able look at Yuif's hut the same way again. Especially the one with a lot of... hammers.

[zardo]

what the hell exactly is wrong with singular "they?" give it up people

[ontoclasm]

thank you germans. thermans.

Danke, Deutsche.

Dantschke.

[Leafsnail]

The roots of this kind of racism, this kind of attitude where somebody really thinks they’re superior to somebody, just because of the color of the other person’s skin? First, what it tells me, you know, my constitutionally-protected opinion about that person, is: they don’t believe in God. Nobody who believes in God can be a racist, in my view, because once you believe God made us, you mean, God made junk? God made somebody lesser just by virtue of the color of their skin? So my starting point is always: All racists must be atheists. They can’t possibly believe in God.

This is one of the more cleverly masked versions of No True Scotsman that I've seen