Temple Termagant
Posts: 6
Joined: Thursday, 19th June 2014, 11:07
Problems with recent Beogh changes
if so, true purpose of new equip system is arranging prior complex interface
but now, new equip system is critical nerf to skilled beogh users in korea
because skilled beogh users freely change equipment of orc by using macro(\{20}p.\{20}n. - \{20} is system return key of Crtl + T), picking bare-handed orc and predicting result of weapon valuation function for monster.
i think that this problem is about gab between users and developer for understanding of beogh play.
In summary,
1. original purpose of new equip system is not nerf
2. skilled beogh users freely change equipment of orc
3. but now, at piety[*****] we can change just once only weapon
================my first opinion posted at 2014-06-15 14:11================
Have any devs ever seen the Beogh speedruns? They are really quite something, and are totally eliminated by the mon-pickup removal. The basic strategy, as I understood it, was to gather about 4 orcs, give them one-handed polearms (holy wrath, antimagic, and similar brands), shields, and decent armor. They would then train up those orcs and micromanage them to beat the game in very few turns.
Mon-pickup and Ctrl-T were necessary for these tactics.
http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/ha ... 162326.txt [^]
This is a log of one such recent game. It is probably possible to watch the ttyrec on FooTV.
================support of any user posted at 2014-06-14 12:20================
The purpose of the change was to improve the interface generally and not to nerf Beogh specifically, yes, but the fact that it ends up nerfing Beogh in some ways as a result also isn't especially a problem and definitely isn't a bug. Making some speedrun techniques harder or impossible is even less of a problem than something that would significantly affect normal games. If Beogh turns out to be too weak in normal games then it'll be pretty easy to adjust his item upgrades in some way (one thing that has been mentioned is allowing Beogh to grant ranged weapons and ammo, along with the existing upgrades).
================reply of devs posted at 2014-06-14 12:43================
A long time ago, stone soup user's objective is just escaping with 3 runes or 15 runes though it may take much time
But,
as overall stone soup user's skill had improved for a long time, their objective changed to speedrun.
Why do you want to distinguish normal game and speed run.
In addition, a character suitable for speedrun means that he is powerful throughout the entire game.
Naturally, the character is powerful in normal game.
Making speedrun impossible also means that weakening in normal game.
================my counter argument posted at 2014-06-15 14:03================
if i summit revised orc follower equip system like this...
Which one is the most acceptable?
1. Blow up the under "if" statement and let user change orc's equip freely
if (_given_gift(mons))
{
mprf("%s has already been given a gift.", monsname);
return false;
}
2. Interchange this code to original monster picking function that only rooting higher valued equipment than theirs by monster-only evaluation function
mons->take_item(item_slot, body_armour ? MSLOT_ARMOUR :
shield ? MSLOT_SHIELD :
MSLOT_WEAPON);
3. Chance for gifting item reset to level up(hd) or class up(orc -> orc knight)
4. Make chance for gifting item god's gift(Trog's weapon) with gift timeout
ps. Required piety point to get beogh_gift_item ability same as getting first orc follower
================my revised orc follower equip system suggest posted at 2014-06-15 14:03================
Summary
1. I waited for communicating with developers
2. There was no response
3. Plz Blow up the under "if" statement and let user change orc's equip freely and make piety-condition for the ability ease
if (_given_gift(mons))
{
mprf("%s has already been given a gift.", monsname);
return false;
}
ps. As i communicate with honon12, he said that "beogh play is suppressed"
- For this message the author SiotWarrior has received thanks: 3
- Arrhythmia, duvessa, XuaXua