The ranged_combat branch has landed

[sgrunt]

cszo and cbro have it in trunk right now; other servers should follow shortly.

Go play some ranged characters.

Especially with throwing. I hear it might be good now.

[duvessa]

You might want to mention what actually changed in the branch - I doubt you'll get much useful feedback here otherwise.

[tasonir]

I have no idea either, and I haven't tried it yet, but I hear you can throw stones at things and actually hit for high damage. It's crazytalk, I am sure.

[nago]

You might want to mention what actually changed in the branch - I doubt you'll get much useful feedback here otherwise.

This.
I may try it, but first I'd like to know what I'm trying

[Patashu]

!learn add ranged_combat_reform Nobody understands ranged combat reform.
!learn add ranged_combat_reform Stones are the strongest thing in the universe.

[Knight9910]

See, when he said "branch" I thought he meant "dungeon branch."

This is why I hate english sometimes.

[Bloax]

He's using the term "branch" because it is a branch off the "master" repository of DCSS on git (which is a thing that likes branches!)

If you didn't know that - then it could indeed be confusing.

[Knight9910]

I realized that almost immediately. But when I first read the thread title I thought he meant a dungeon branch full of enemies specializing in ranged combat. Sort of like the Bailey portal vaults. Or the Shoals.

[HenryFlower]

Not sure what I'm missing. Ran a SpHu up to Throwing 14 and was still doing absolute crap for damage?

[archaeo]

Not sure what I'm missing. Ran a SpHu up to Throwing 14 and was still doing absolute crap for damage?

Strength. You're missing strength.

[wizzzargh]

I just tested out an ogre with high strength out in this branch, and it was very good. I saw two exclamation marks on a stone once, and stones+darts were actually legitimate weapons. Javelins would occasionally kill dragons in 3 hits, and the crowning achievement was one-shotting a golden dragon with a large rock.

This was with nine levels of throwing and 30ish strength.

[HenryFlower]

Not sure what I'm missing. Ran a SpHu up to Throwing 14 and was still doing absolute crap for damage?

Strength. You're missing strength.

I've run other SpBe in 0.14 who did decent damage at relatively low levels of Str. Just reran a SpHu in 0.14 who was killing things nicely with tomahawks at 8 Str; the trunk dude had 11 Str.

[Bloax]

I hear from my own twisted mind that OgHu^Chei pumping str is a very solid combo if you want to murder everything with stones.

[Hirsch I]

an ogre wielding a big ass stone should do a pretty decent damage in melee.

[Confidence Interval]

an ogre with a big stone ass should do a pretty decent damage in melee.

Ftfy

[TehDruid]

an ogre stoner with ass a big should pretty decent do damage in a melee.

Ftfy

Ftftfy

[Confidence Interval]

an ogre stoner with ass a big should pretty decent do damage in a melee.

Ftfy

Ftftfy

That's gotta hurt.

[Hirsch I]

works too.

[Viashino_wizard]

You might want to mention what actually changed in the branch - I doubt you'll get much useful feedback here otherwise.

Apparently he'd rather continue Crawl's proud tradition of never saying what anything actually does.

[Bloax]

apparently throwing being really good was a false alert
and now jellies eat 16 stones at 20 str/6 fighting/8 throwing
which isn't very nice as you might imagine, seeing as jellies have 12-21 hp and 0 AC and yet 5 of those stones did no damage
(and that would be at least 1,09 damage and 1,9 damage at most per stone, which is pathetic seeing as the weakest of enemies have 1-3 hp)

[Cheibrodos]

apparently throwing being really good was a false alert
and now jellies eat 16 stones at 20 str/6 fighting/8 throwing
which isn't very nice as you might imagine, seeing as jellies have 12-21 hp and 0 AC and yet 5 of those stones did no damage
(and that would be at least 1,09 damage and 1,9 damage at most per stone, which is pathetic seeing as the weakest of enemies have 1-3 hp)

I have experienced this difficulty with jellies in a game. If you don't have a sling or other means and a jelly ends up next to you somehow, you're just boned.

[XuaXua]

Normal person can clock the hell out of someone with a well-placed thrown rock.

David did have a sling, though.

I'm really seeing the "stabbing" critical hit rationale for missiles.

[Hirsch I]

you can go bows, legolas style.

[Midpoint]

Okay, I've got a MiHu of Oka clearing Zot 5 at lvl 24 (was 23 when I hit Zot5), so I'm ready with some comments.
# skill levels to make crossbows useful felt a lot lower, and more comparable to melee weapons. I think min-delay came at about skill 18 or so (heroism included)? Damage wasn't impressive into early lair. It wasn't small, but it took several shots to take things down and often I was placing a killing blow in melee with an unbranded lajatang. Overall, it felt comparable to a mid-game melee weapon, which was probably appropriate.
Then I found the plutonium sword at the bottom of Lair. Everything died.
I noticed while running around with my plut sword that throwing was a pretty good supplement, but I didn't start training until heading into Zot or thereabouts.
Now, with tomahawks (not javelins!) of returning, str 24, dex 14, throwing 16.7 (including heroism):

  Code:

_An Orb Guardian comes into view.
 You throw a tomahawk of returning.
 The tomahawk of returning hits the Orb Guardian!!!
 The Orb Guardian is almost dead.
_The tomahawk of returning returns to your pack!
 You throw a tomahawk of returning.
 The tomahawk of returning hits the Orb Guardian!!
 You kill the Orb Guardian!
 Okawaru accepts your kill.
_The tomahawk of returning returns to your pack!


That would be a two-hit kill on an Orb Guardian with a mid-level throwing weapon with mid-level skills (but pretty high str, I admit). It seems a bit much. Most have taken more like 3-4 hits and have closed to melee, but I'm killing dragons, an OOF and other nasties quite successfully with throwing weapons.

So, crossbows seem better balanced and even useful. I need to play another character to test high skill crossbows. I'm a little concerned about how strong throwing is at high-str/low-skill.
Time to test bows and slings next.

[twelwe]

What happened to this? Merged into trunk? Dumped entirely?

[Bloax]

It was merged into trunk a week ago.

Throwing might also be less awful-awful now, but I haven't tried since the 40-stones-don't-kill-a-single-jackal-out-of-four-in-a-corridor trauma.

[duvessa]

I noticed while running around with my plut sword that throwing was a pretty good supplement, but I didn't start training until heading into Zot or thereabouts.
Now, with tomahawks (not javelins!) of returning, str 24, dex 14, throwing 16.7 (including heroism):

What version are you playing? There was a bug that caused throwing to get extra damage from your melee weapon.

[Midpoint]

Here's the morgue
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Midpoint/morgue-Midpoint-20140508-165656.txt

Looks like version 0.15-a0-306-gc25b449 when I ascended, which was not long after that post. Yeah, if it was buggy and using ridiculous plut-sword slaying or base damage, that would explain it. If that run was bug-bait, then it's best that it didn't count to win stats anyway.

Played some HuHu with bows before the branch got pulled. Like crossbows, the power curve felt smoother. Delay worked more like melee weapons. Damage seemed very unstable early on, sometimes one hit kills, sometimes nicks and cuts. Lots of accuracy problems with low slaying, shortbows, and starting attributes, but things died just fine later in the dungeon with brands, ?EW, longbows and Zin vitalization. If this is rolled into trunk, I think I'll go play some more with bows and slings.