Species: Yeti


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Temple Termagant

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 04:32

Species: Yeti

Yeti (possible alternative name: Wendigo)
Size: Large (but NOT like Ogres/Trolls, no large rocks, no GSC/GC)

No gloves (hands and arms are too big) or boots (legs and feet are too big), but normal body armor restrictions otherwise (torso is still small enough to fit into plate and the like)
Racial Mutations:
Fur (1/2/3 depending on XL, like Felids)
(Maybe not Deformed Body to help differentiate it more from the other large races?)

EXP: 0
HP: +2
MP: 0

Apts:
Fighting: 1
Short Blades: -3
Long Blades: -2
Maces & Flails: -2
Axes: -1
Polearms: -2
Staves: -3

Slings: -4
Bows: -4
XBows: -3
Throw: 1

Armour: -1 (or maybe -2 if the metallic armor restriction goes through?)
Dodging: -1 (like ogres)
Stealth: -4
Shields: -2 (or -3?)
Unarmed Combat: 1

Spellcasting: 0 (above average!)
Conj: 1
Hexes: 2
Charms: -1
Summ: 1
Nec: 1
Tloc: 0
Tmut: 1
Fire: -2 (or -2)
Ice: 2 (or 3?)
Air: 1
Earth: 1
Poison: 0
Invo: 0 (or -1)
Evo: 1

Starting Stats: 11/10/4 (not as strong as an ogre, but pretty smart by species standards; that large size and thick fur does mean they aren't very dexterous)
Stat Gain: SI/4

Recommended for backgrounds (from race): Monk, Transmuter, Warper, Wizard, Conjurer, Ice Elementalist, Air Elementalist,
Recommended as race for: Monk, Transmuter, Warper, Wizard, Necromancer, Ice Elementalist

"Yetis are large humanoids who dwell at the top of mountains. Their solitude gives them great wisdom in addition to strength."


Concept: We really haven't had a non-gimmicky new race in a very long time (i.e. something closer to HO or DE in design than VS or Sp), and the niche of large spellcaster race still hasn't really been filled yet. People during the nostalgia branch discussion talked about how there really isn't anything like OM, so I set out to make something that was large like an OM but wasn't anywhere near as mediocre/bad.

No large rocks or GSC/GCs to avoid the Tr/Og problem of being skewed towards those weapons, axes are at -1 to represent all those woodcutters who run afoul of yetis in stories)

Ice Magic is at 2 because +3 ice magic probably would end up being really overpowered; as it is no race gets more than +1 ice magic anyways. Of course, with a dex on par with Ghouls and being a large race on top of that (i.e. worst ev in the game), the +3 apt probably would end up not really breaking things all that much. Best to be on the safe side however.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 07:07

Re: Species: Yeti

I'm not so keen on the fact that their weapon apts are pretty bad (with the exception of unarmed which is great) - and the fact that they have the EV penalty of large race (in addition to abysmal dex) without the giant clubs and large rock goodies.
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  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 09:39

Re: Species: Yeti

I'm not sure allowing them GC/GSC/large rocks would instantly skew them towards using those weapons. Formicids can use large rocks (and used to be able to use GC/GSC), and I don't recall that being a huge deal. Sure, you can *use* large-sized items, but we can make those aptitudes low enough to make using those weapons prohibitive (I mean, you don't see many trolls running around with GSCs, do you?)

Since they specifically live in snowy climates, I'd suggest having them start at Fur 2 (or just start them off straight at Fur 3). Felids' pelts aren't specifically designed to protect them from cold weather, so it makes sense for them to grow in as they get stronger, but a Yeti starting off with only light fur?

How is +3 Ice Magic overpowered? We've already got Tengu with +3 Air Magic, Deep Dwarves with +3 Earth Magic, and both Nagas and Formicids with +3 Poison Magic.

Crappy dex on top of crappy stealth and dodging does kinda seem like yetis are taking it in the shorts in that department. Since they appear to be a more magic-oriented race than the bash-happy ogres and trolls, I think it'd make sense for them to have a bit more defensive capability, especially since they'd have some trouble falling back on melee with the current proposal.

Additional pointless side note: When I was looking up things for my own idea for a yeti race (which never really went anywhere since I hadn't found out about GDD yet), I looked up Wendigo to see if that would be a valid name (considering they tend to be ice monsters in things like Final Fantasy). Turns out the original Wendigo myths come pretty close to Crawl's ghouls; I'd stick with Yeti, personally.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 09:48

Re: Species: Yeti

Wendigo are also monsters from the old-ass game Hexen (and as you can see they're practically ice monsters), which seeing as this game is very subtly nudging at Doom would only make sense to also give a subtle nudge towards.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 09:56

Re: Species: Yeti

large spellcasting species? so, a less interesting ogre?
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 13:25

Re: Species: Yeti

Non-ravenous, slightly furrier Trolls that traded in the claws and HP regen for approximately High Elf magic aptitudes. I don't think this is distinct enough to merit being its own species. The new species that you call "gimmicky" (which is rather dismissive) are at least distinct and yet, ironically, neither Fo nor (in particular) VS is actually as niche and one-dimensional as the species you just proposed. Extreme aptitudes aren't interesting; they actually limit choices and ensure that every subsequent game with the species is much more likely to be like the ones that preceded it because you will always tend to value the same things in much the same way regardless of what the RNG does.

Outside of transmutations, Unarmed Combat without good claw boost wants a lot of experience investment and thus doesn't pair well with magic and these guys are very inept at all weapons except axes. Basically this means that a pretty big segment of players will not find the species very fun to play outside of transmuters and robust ~pure casters~, maybe the occasional AM but then you can't use large rocks so Ogre/Troll fills that niche in a more interesting way despite the bad magic aptitudes. And Nagas are much more interesting in the "beefy spell caster" vein with a game-changing but simple and intuitive drawback mixed in with very useful and significant intrinsic traits.

To be clear, it isn't my intention to be hyper negative. I just don't think there is a place for such a species without having something special going for it. Note that "something special" doesn't necessarily have to be a "gimmick."

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 13:41

Re: Species: Yeti

I don't think this can co-exist with the current large species, but it would make sense for Ogres to have somewhat better magic aptitudes. That would help provide more of a distinction with trolls than "trolls are better".

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 13:42

Re: Species: Yeti

Make it be able to eat people. No, seriously, make it eat people.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 14:47

Re: Species: Yeti

I guess what I'm not clear about is what's the appeal of a Large size casting species. Large size allows GSCs and large rocks, so large melee dudes and hunters are interesting, because they can do something that normal sized species can't. What does Large size do to casting? I can't think of it having any effect.

What's more, in this proposal you explicitly won't give Yetis the use of GSCs and large rocks, and you even want to get rid of the deformed body part! So what's the point of being large size? You might as well call them normal size and just give them an EV penalty.

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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 14:49

Re: Species: Yeti

DracheReborn wrote:You might as well call them normal size and just give them an EV penalty.

Except that part already exists in the form of nonexistent dex.

I think I'm on the "just make ogres better" bandwagon too.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 15:27

Re: Species: Yeti

Ogres are fine. This proposal is eh.

Modification idea: Yeti are large creatures that DONT get bonus AC, but have +rF and +rC innately, going up to ++ at level 15 and have innate reaching due to super long arms. idc about aptitudes, this is just a "what interesting thing does this race do" idea.
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 17:51

Re: Species: Yeti

Tiktacy wrote:Make it be able to eat people. No, seriously, make it eat people.

Every crawl race other than Spriggan and Mummy already does this. (unless they worship Zin)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 18:23

Re: Species: Yeti

TeshiAlair wrote:Ogres are fine. This proposal is eh.

Modification idea: Yeti are large creatures that DONT get bonus AC, but have +rF and +rC innately, going up to ++ at level 15 and have innate reaching due to super long arms. idc about aptitudes, this is just a "what interesting thing does this race do" idea.

Between this, boosting their weapons skills to -1, I'd consider them pretty interesting. I don't know if you want to give them all 4 resists (2 each of rF/rC) for free, but maybe starting out with rC from the fur and evolving rF at level 13-15 somewhere, would be interesting without being too strong.

Innate reaching would be interesting to me, I've always been curious about having the old reaching brand back and getting it on a polearm for range 3 :P It'll probably never happen though.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 19:55

Re: Species: Yeti

MiraclePrism wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:Make it be able to eat people. No, seriously, make it eat people.

Every crawl race other than Spriggan and Mummy already does this. (unless they worship Zin)


some kind of bonus when eating intelligent flesh, wendigos are associated with cannibalism

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 21:12

Re: Species: Yeti

If they aren't going to be able to eat like trolls, Wendigo is a bad name. A Wendigo is a spirit of neverending hunger, doomed to eat and eat without being satiated. Ghouls cover that. Trolls cover that.

If you want the ice-theme to stick, give them a slowed food clock. possibly using the lava orc type of scale, where it's slower when they're not warm, representing hibernation tendencies (hibernating animals digestion slows significantly), but as they do things that would heat them, their digestion gets faster. As an added bonus, particularly early in the game, this would help offset the hunger cost a big spellcaster is sure to have.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 22:27

Re: Species: Yeti

nicolae wrote:
MiraclePrism wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:Make it be able to eat people. No, seriously, make it eat people.

Every crawl race other than Spriggan and Mummy already does this. (unless they worship Zin)


some kind of bonus when eating intelligent flesh, wendigos are associated with cannibalism

Bonuses for eating chunks encourage scumming so it's a no-no.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 28th April 2014, 22:56

Re: Species: Yeti

Intelligent flesh could just give more satiation than you'd get from unintelligent flesh, similar to how impure flesh gives less.

Spider Stomper

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Post Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 06:23

Re: Species: Yeti

This discussion is kinda reminding me of the Fjoad species proposal somebody came up with a while back: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9782&hilit=fjoad.
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