Thoughts on Deep Dwarf + Elyvilon? (Noob Alert!)

[TheSchachter]

Hello Everyone!

So, I've been getting significantly better at the game; I've recently managed to get a MiBe all the way to Lair 8 (Yeah, I know, that's not much, but it's a big deal for me! I got murdered by a spriggann riding a firefly in a forest :0). It's been fun, but I've been playing a lot of MiBe's who die somewhere in Lair and I felt like trying out something else as to take a break from Trog. I've been messing around with Deep Dwarf Healers and I find the combination of no natural regen + pacifist healing deity really interesting. That being said, I'm still pretty new (and bad!) at the game and I'm having trouble figuring out how to get started as such a character. Part of it is that I don't have a good idea of how much I should be pacifying vs how much I should be killing (since the former gives less XP but gives Piety), whether I should be training combat skills or pure evocation, etc. Typically I find that I need to rely on Elyvilon's self-healing ability enough that I never get higher than the starting Piety, or else rely on the wand of healing but then I worry about losing max MP (don't know how much I can afford to do so). I'm also constantly hungry (might be corpse bad luck, but I've never eaten so much permafood so early). And some enemies like Crimson Imps are way more of a trouble than they've ever been for any other character I've made... and I basically have to run away from any Orc Priest unless I'm willing to spam healings. Also the last character I made was a DDFi who joined Elyvilon at the Temple. I felt he had a much better chance at things than the previous healers since he got there already able to defend himself and Invocations trained very quickly from 0 to like 8 afterwards (at which point I died to a Goliath Beetle because it's 4:30 AM and I was way too tired to care XD)

Anyway, from the rambling mess above you can probably tell that I'm rather puzzled (but intrigued!) by this Race/Deity combination. It kinda feels like a cool puzzle for which I'm not sure if I'm missing pieces (the entire game feels that way sometimes tbh). So I thought I should ask whether anyone had suggestions for what kind of attitude/game plan to have when getting started with such a character (whether it's about stat distribution, or how many enemies to pacify, etc.). I'm not looking so much for long-term end game strategy since I don't expect to get that far in a long time, but more tips to get over the early bump in a good shape. Or something like that.

Anyway if someone feels like poking me in the right direction I'd appreciate it a lot!
Cheers!

[Hopeless]

DD is tough because they don't heal. So naturally you want to pick gods that heal you. The healer god is interesting but requires a lot of work (imho). Maybe better for this: Mahkleb. He heals you if you kill enough. Seems simple right? It is. The biggest problems with big M come later.

As for Orc Priests. Even if you can kill them like popcorn if your health isn't high they can do awesome/awful damage to you so running is very wise. In fact get out of their LOS asap if you don't have a way to insta kill them. Goliath beetle is another monster to respect despite being an "insect" (there are a few that are pretty dangerous.)

The wand of healing you get at the beginning of the game is there to be used. Use it (but not foolishly.) If you can contrive another way of healing then do that (potions first). But do use the wand to max and don't be too afraid of recharging it. If you get a god who needs Invocations you will train that up anyway and Invocations/Evocations/Spellcasting all give some MP, so that should help. The main thing is play DDs cautiously. They are hardy but you can't rest heal them as you know so treat that HP as a nonrenewable resource and spend it wisely. (Id set your danger level red to 50% or higher, for example.)

Finally, don't be afraid to show your dumps here if you find yourself in a predicament and need immediate advice. You may have to step away from the game for a few hours for people to read the thread/post and respond but the wait should be worth it. (Just take all advice with a little bit of salt since there are all kinds of qualities of advisers here. Many of us are newish to the game ourselves.) The ones to most pay attention to here are Lasty, Crate, Sar and And Into, (and Mikey if he chimes in.) But also don't be afraid to ask specific questions if you need clarifications. And when you die post your dumps (using the code tags).

[1010011010]

Ely is really strong. Try it with a race your comfortable with first to get a better idea.
if your having hunger issues pick kobold.

Pacify almost everything, concentrate on a few skills (including invocation). By lair you should be in good stead.

[Patashu]

Ely is really strong. Try it with a race your comfortable with first to get a better idea.
if your having hunger issues pick kobold.

Pacify almost everything, concentrate on a few skills (including invocation). By lair you should be in good stead.

HOHe is really good too because there's a bonus to pacifying if the monster is same-species (2x), and orc priests/wizards/warriors are very nice to pacify reliably.
Animals get a 3x bonus, so Lair is pretty much free for Healer.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

Ignore any XP penalties. I know you feel like you gotta get everything, but I promise you don't, and that attitude causes problems in Crawl. There's way more experience than you need, and losing some from pacification or summons just means your endgame character will have a bit less freedom to train ancillary skills, you'll still have a very solid character in the end. Probably much less than 10% of the game's XP is in D:1-10 anyway, so if you were to train a weapon in Lair and then abandon Ely, I don't think you would even be able to notice the penalty on your endgame skills.

The real reason to kill things is if you need food, pacification has a significant hunger cost and you will be using it a lot.

Here's the wisdom of the resident healer expert:

<Sequell> healer guide[1/1]: <crate> pacify all the dudes until lair and then do whatever

[TheSchachter]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I'll give those suggestions a try!

[tasonir]

I found that pacifying things in the first few floors was a pretty low piety return - I tried to kill as much as I could pre-lair, but train invocations so you could pacify hydras and spiny frogs etc reliably in lair. Pacifying hydras is more or less infinity piety, or at least it seemed that way.

Keep in mind I only won one DDHe, so crate is probably much, much better than I am, but that's how I ran mine. You should still pacify some things pre lair, of course, animals are easiest, and if you have high enough invocations, being able to get orc priest/wizards out right away is amazing. But that takes some training to get reliable.

[duvessa]

Piety gain for successful pacification is 1d([monster max HP] / (2+[current piety]/20)) - 1. If this is 0, there's a 50% chance of getting 1 piety instead. This is then modified as in piety[3].

I tried to kill as much as I could pre-lair

you did something incredibly stupid then

[Patashu]

I tried to kill as much as I could pre-lair

you did something incredibly stupid then

Let's be fair - it's not very clear, unspoiled, how to play as Healer optimally, because you won't know about things like monster HP/HD, the multipliers for demons/same race/animals for pacification, etc. It's better to educate and deobfuscate than to berate. Maybe it can be communicated more clearly in the game, for example (A good example off the top of my head is Angband, which when you examine a weapon tells you how much expected damage it does, and also how big a marginal gain +1 STR and +1 DEX would be for improving said expected damage. -> Expected pacification %, expected pacification % with 1.0 more invocations?)

(Also, if the game does this now, I apologize - I know that in 0.10 it didn't.)

[crate]

your goal above all else with healer is just to get to lair
ideally you do this with 3* piety or above, and it's even better if you have some food
the only real reason to not pacify things early on is to make it easier to eat the corpse of that enemy (or, obviously, if you can't pacify said enemy), since the amount of xp you miss out on early on is completely inconsequential

once you finish lair you've basically won since you have 6* piety with a god who makes you invincible until you run out of piety, unless you starve.

[hannobal]

Hill Orcs also have great invocations aptitude and can eat rotten meat, which helps with the food issues.

[cerebovssquire]

I tried to kill as much as I could pre-lair

you did something incredibly stupid then

Let's be fair - it's not very clear, unspoiled, how to play as Healer optimally, because you won't know about things like monster HP/HD, the multipliers for demons/same race/animals for pacification, etc. It's better to educate and deobfuscate than to berate. Maybe it can be communicated more clearly in the game, for example (A good example off the top of my head is Angband, which when you examine a weapon tells you how much expected damage it does, and also how big a marginal gain +1 STR and +1 DEX would be for improving said expected damage. -> Expected pacification %, expected pacification % with 1.0 more invocations?)

(Also, if the game does this now, I apologize - I know that in 0.10 it didn't.)

The game gives messages that are supposed to show the chance of pacification - if you barely failed, if it's hard to pacify the monster or completely impossible - but of course just showing the % of success would be easier for the players to interpret and more useful. No idea why it hasn't been done yet, as it wouldn't be confusing and it would be important for Elyvilon gameplay.

[Patashu]

The game gives messages that are supposed to show the chance of pacification - if you barely failed, if it's hard to pacify the monster or completely impossible - but of course just showing the % of success would be easier for the players to interpret and more useful. No idea why it hasn't been done yet, as it wouldn't be confusing and it would be important for Elyvilon gameplay.

Oh hey, speaking of - we should show % before attempting for hexing attempts too.
(Then after that, let's go REALLY crazy and show to-hit when with currently held weapon/ammo when highlighting a monster. And show HD/MR when examining a monster!)

EDIT: I just realized why it probably doesn't give concise feedback on pacification attempts - the monster's true max HP is in a range, and it would be an information leak to tell you outright (by means of pacification %) what that max HP is, but if you go the opposite end (range over max HPs and figure out an average pacification % as a result) then you are not providing as much information as a sufficiently calculating player could (with the 'how close was the roll' messages) narrow the real max HP down to be. Maybe there's a solution in this somewhere - you could make the estimate better, but how to communicate this in a non-clunky way?

OTOH, it might not be bad to information leak true max HP to elyvilon followers, since stuff like damage rolls, to-hit rolls, etc etc are as variable as/more variable than max HP ranges anyway. Call it 'Elyvilon-o-vision'. Or show % for min-max HP and % for max-max HP but that's pretty ugly.

MR can change with worn equipment/artifact weapons/jewellery, but with the way new hex messages work you could find out if said monster is wearing any after one hex anyway, so it would be a tiny information leak.

HD can change only with draining hits. You know what you've hit with draining or not, it doesn't specify HOW hard you drained but I don't think it would upset game balance to show it.

[Klown]

Pretty slow start, this combo. I was literally running from a gnoll for ten minutes on D:1 gaining my 2 MP back and failing to have him reach the light. Despite training invo only from the start. Feels like I'm scraping axes together and having them try to 'see the light' from the sparks.

[and into]

If you are mostly attracted to the idea of playing a healer, rather than playing a deep dwarf per se, then I'd suggest Hill Orc healer. You have a significantly increased chance to smite-target instakill (aka "pacify") orc priests and orc wizards, which are two of the most lethal enemies in Crawl, and orc warriors or orcs with lucky weapon spawns present little problem either. Anyway I think HOHe is a better and less frustrating introduction to how to play healers, after which circling back to deep dwarf healer you'd maybe have an easier time understanding how to get along with that combo.

[Note: HO's invocations aptitude and saprovorousness are not what makes them great healers; they help a bit but are a distant third to the boost they get to pacifying orcs and the good HP/fast leveling that makes HOs such a great species in almost any background.]

General Healer advice: Since all healers are pretty great against geckos/jackals/adders/hounds right out of the gate, the only common, tough early game enemies that are faster than you and can't be pacified are ants and the occasional killer bee(s). You should usually be able to handle the former when they show up (though don't be stingy with consumables and self-heal against them), while the latter is extremely dangerous for nearly all characters if a swarm shows up early, so you just gotta flee by whatever means you can, probably ?teleportation. Throw on heavy armor and try to get the highest AC you can as early as possible. Invocations are not penalized by armor. Find a good weapon; unless a particularly good axe drops early, I'd recommend against axes regardless of your aptitude.

[tasonir]

I tried to kill as much as I could pre-lair

you did something incredibly stupid then

Let's be fair - it's not very clear, unspoiled, how to play as Healer optimally, because you won't know about things like monster HP/HD, the multipliers for demons/same race/animals for pacification, etc. It's better to educate and deobfuscate than to berate. Maybe it can be communicated more clearly in the game, for example (A good example off the top of my head is Angband, which when you examine a weapon tells you how much expected damage it does, and also how big a marginal gain +1 STR and +1 DEX would be for improving said expected damage. -> Expected pacification %, expected pacification % with 1.0 more invocations?)

(Also, if the game does this now, I apologize - I know that in 0.10 it didn't.)

I know about all of those things, though, the multipliers, the exp penality, the hunger costs. I don't really see the point in pacifying an adder 1 on 1 when the piety gain is going to be 0 or 1. I'd rather get to lair, and pacify half the floor and suddenly have 5* piety. You don't really get piety on the first few floors. Even though I'm hitting things with a weapon, I'm still exclusively training invocations. I pacify things that are too dangerous to fight. This turns out to be a lot of things, since you have very little fighting ability, but if you can kill a lone goblin, there isn't much point in getting more hunger pacifying him instead. He won't give much piety. Pacify a hydra and your piety soars.

[and into]

No, you definitely want to get up to *** piety as soon as reasonably possible, because greater heal comes online then, so you can pacify when you really need to and also get some decent self-healing when required.

This thread inspired me roll a HOHe, haven't played healer in a while.

He has cleared down to D15 and Lair and Orc, hasn't set foot in any of the Lair branches. I've been using pacify a lot, even just as a convenience to take out stuff that I could easily handle in melee but (e.g.) don't want to risk item destruction. I am at level 15, almost level 16, with 12 fighting, 16 long blades, 13 armor, and 16.5 invocations, and that's with about 10 levels misplaced in M&F. (I had originally gone M&F but had surprisingly scarce choices, whereas lots of good long blades were generating so I switched, glad I did as now I'm rocking a +5 great sword of flaming which I have almost at min-delay.)

Now let's pretend I had gone HOFi of Makhleb and overtrained invocations to 16.5, all else being the same... I'd probably have a couple more levels of fighting, maybe 1 AC, at most 2 AC more from a bit more armor training, and I expect I'd be about one full level ahead (level 16 almost level 17). And great sword at min-delay rather than "almost min-delay." That's probably it. And Divine Vigor (even with less invocations than I currently have) more than makes up for that, seriously. For any serious battle I spend one turn and suddenly become level 20 or something for purposes of HP/MP, it's great.

Pretty sure you never get 0 experience, by the way. If 1 experience gain is cut in half in DCSS, it rounds up to 1. This applies to kills from summons, banishing with Lugonu, and pacification with Ely. Maybe draining in combination with those things can reduce it to 0 (possibly?) but obviously you aren't using draining if you are worshiping Ely.

Lair is really easy—I mean, even easier than usual—with a Healer so the trick is *getting* to Lair which usually requires you to use your abilities quite a bit.

[GlassGo]

No idea why it hasn't been done yet, as it wouldn't be confusing and it would be important for Elyvilon gameplay.

I think - becouse It will ruin ambiance. There is no need to bring more numbers then it already exist.

[crate]

I would also recommend HOHe instead of DDHe if you just want to play a healer but that's because it's less annoying. DDHe is stronger if you know what you're doing already but it is harder to learn what to do if you play DDHe instead of HOHe.

I don't really see the point in pacifying an adder 1 on 1 when the piety gain is going to be 0 or 1.

well you're going to have negative piety gain (you have to self-heal) if you don't pacify it, since adders are really scary when you have no weapon skill and no fighting and bad defenses

[duvessa]

I know about all of those things, though, the multipliers, the exp penality, the hunger costs. I don't really see the point in pacifying an adder 1 on 1 when the piety gain is going to be 0 or 1.

im not 100% sure but i think 0.5 is more than 0

[cerebovssquire]

No idea why it hasn't been done yet, as it wouldn't be confusing and it would be important for Elyvilon gameplay.

I think - becouse It will ruin ambiance. There is no need to bring more numbers then it already exist.

Most players don't want flavour improvements when they come at the cost of gameplay. This applies especially to a game like crawl.

[tasonir]

I know about all of those things, though, the multipliers, the exp penality, the hunger costs. I don't really see the point in pacifying an adder 1 on 1 when the piety gain is going to be 0 or 1.

im not 100% sure but i think 0.5 is more than 0

Only half the time!

[Patashu]

No idea why it hasn't been done yet, as it wouldn't be confusing and it would be important for Elyvilon gameplay.

I think - becouse It will ruin ambiance. There is no need to bring more numbers then it already exist.

You can have ambience and numbers, flavour and mechanics at the same time. No need to shaft one for the other. I'm going to hack together a shelf today or tomorrow.

@tasonir: When monster exp is halved due to pacify/banish/whatever, it is rounded up, so you can safely ally kill/banish/pacify/whatever as much of D:1 as you like and basically lose no exp.

[tasonir]

Our discussion was about the piety gain, not the exp gain. Some things on D:1 are worth 2 experience; giant geckos, hobgoblins, etc, but that doesn't really matter.

[duvessa]

Our discussion was about the piety gain, not the exp gain. Some things on D:1 are worth 2 experience; giant geckos, hobgoblins, etc, but that doesn't really matter.

...then why not pacify them?

[GlassGo]

You can have ambience and numbers, flavour and mechanics at the same time.

Maybe, but I can't see how.

[crate]

The main reason crawl doesn't display numbers for pacification attempts is because the player does not need to know those numbers, and giving the player more numbers than he needs is against crawl's design goals. Additionally there are problems with how you display pacification chance (displaying numbers that are wrong is worse than not displaying numbers at all, and pacification depends on the maxhp of particular monsters, which is randomized; you either need to turn it into an info leak--you can tell how much maxhp the monster has if you try to pacify it--or requires you at least double the number of numbers you are displaying, which means you are displaying more numbers so they'd better be really important).

Pacification gives you messages about how close your attempt was to succeeding, which is about as close to numbers as you can get unless you can solve the problems I described in my previous paragraph.

[Hopeless]

The main reason crawl doesn't display numbers for pacification attempts is because the player does not need to know those numbers, and giving the player more numbers than he needs is against crawl's design goals. Additionally there are problems with how you display pacification chance (displaying numbers that are wrong is worse than not displaying numbers at all, and pacification depends on the maxhp of particular monsters, which is randomized; you either need to turn it into an info leak--you can tell how much maxhp the monster has if you try to pacify it--or requires you at least double the number of numbers you are displaying, which means you are displaying more numbers so they'd better be really important).

Pacification gives you messages about how close your attempt was to succeeding, which is about as close to numbers as you can get unless you can solve the problems I described in my previous paragraph.

Imho it would be nice to know an approximate % of likelihood before attempting it. I realize that isn't going to happen but it would be nice.

[crate]

Imho it would be nice to know an approximate % of likelihood before attempting it.

you get this after attempting because crawl gives you a message telling you (to be fair the way hex messages work gives you this precisely, while pacification messages are slightly different)

I don't think there's a need to move this to before the pacification attempt, since it would at least make the targeting interface a bit awkward (though there is precedent with silver ammo).

[Patashu]

After a discussion in ##crawl-dev I'm going to try and make pacification messages like new hex messages, e.g. if you fail you get told descriptively how hard this pacification is to do.

[zxc23]

Inspired by this useful thread and also with help from ##crawl, I started a HOHe to continue my first ever streak. First time playing either HO or He.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

zzxc the Bringer of Life (Hill Orc Healer)         Turns: 56690, Time: 07:23:49

HP 177/177       AC 41     Str 26      XL: 19   Next: 78%
MP  39/39        EV  8     Int 15      God: Elyvilon [******]
Gold 4145        SH  0     Dex  8      Spells:  0 memorised, 18 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     a - +11,+10 lajatang "Chesch" {flame, rF+ rC+ MR+ SInv}
rCold  + + +     Clarity  .     g - +10 plate armour of Smumuvise {Str+5 Dex-4 Dam+4}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve +     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    .     I - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  .         rRot     .     d - +1 cloak {rPois}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     S - +2 pair of gloves {archer} (curse)
rMut   .         Warding  .     C - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Saprov + . .     Stasis   .     E - amulet of conservation
MR     +++..                    J - ring of the Invisible Hand {rN+ MR+ SInv}
                                U - ring of Cotuttid {+Inv rC++ Acc+2 Dam+3}

@: flying, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: saprovore 1
a: Lesser Healing, Lesser Self-Healing, Divine Protection, Purification, Greater
Healing, Greater Self-Healing, Divine Vigour, Renounce Religion, Evoke
Invisibility, Stop Flying
}: 1/15 runes: decaying


You are on level 13 of the Dungeon.
You worship Elyvilon.
Elyvilon is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 40 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 4601 gold pieces.
You have spent 456 gold pieces at shops.


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can tolerate rotten meat.


   Skills:
 - Level 17.0 Fighting
   Level 13.5 Long Blades
 - Level 14.0 Staves
 + Level 15.8 Armour
 - Level 1.5 Dodging
 - Level 24.0 Invocations


You have 18 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - the +11,+10 lajatang "Chesch" (weapon) {flame, rF+ rC+ MR+ SInv}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes and up to
   double damage against particularly susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades
   are also staple armaments of hydra-hunters.
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
Missiles
 n - a throwing net (quivered)
Armour
 d - a +1 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 g - the +10 plate armour of Smumuvise (worn) {Str+5 Dex-4 Dam+4}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (-4).
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+4).
 C - a +2 pair of boots of flying (worn)
 I - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 S - a cursed +2 pair of gloves of archery (worn)
Magical devices
 k - a wand of digging
 l - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
 q - a wand of disintegration (16)
 B - a wand of heal wounds (5)
 M - a wand of cold {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 D - a pear
 H - 9 rotting chunks of stone giant flesh {@*2}
 P - a slice of pizza
Scrolls
 h - 5 scrolls of summoning
 j - 2 scrolls of blinking
 o - 3 scrolls of recharging
 p - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 s - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 x - 4 scrolls of fog
 z - 4 scrolls of identify {@*1}
 K - a scroll of silence
 N - 4 scrolls of vulnerability
 W - 7 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 E - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
 J - the ring of the Invisible Hand (right hand) {rN+ MR+ SInv}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 U - the ring of Cotuttid (left hand) {+Inv rC++ Acc+2 Dam+3}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Swamp)   
   
   [ring of slaying]
   It affects your accuracy with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2).
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
Potions
 b - a potion of haste
 c - 3 potions of berserk rage
 e - 2 potions of magic
 i - 14 potions of curing
 v - 7 potions of might
 w - 3 potions of agility
 A - 4 potions of restore abilities
 O - 7 potions of heal wounds
 R - 2 potions of invisibility
Miscellaneous
 r - a phial of floods
 y - a fan of gales
 G - a phial of floods
 Q - a phial of floods
 X - a lamp of fire


  #.........)###########....#####
  #........[.###########.........
  #.........))<.............####.
  #..........##..#######....#  #.
  #..................# #....#  #.
  #..........#.#.#...# #.##.#  #.
  #..................# #.##.#  #.
  #..........#.###...###.##.####.
  ###.#####....#@........##......
    #.#   #..#.#.....######....#.
    #.#   #.........##    #<...#.
    #.#   #..(......#     #....#.
########  #.........#     #....#.
.......####.........#     #....#.
.......[.........####     #....#.
.......####.###..#        #.#.##.
########  #.# #.##        #.#.##.


There are no monsters in sight!

Message History

There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You see here a +2 plate armour of fire resistance.
You fly upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
There is an open door here.
Eating a rotting chunk of stone giant flesh {@*2}.
This raw flesh tastes unpleasant.
You continue eating. x2
You see here 2 large rocks.
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
Things that are here:
an uncursed bow; 73 arrows; a bow; an arrow of flame
Things that are here:
14 arrows; an uncursed bow of frost; 3 arrows of flame
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
You fly upwards.
You smell something rotten. (slot H)
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You see here a dagger.
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
You fly upwards.
There is a stone staircase leading down, spattered with blood here.
You see here an arrow.
You see here an arrow.
You reach down and open the door.
There is an open door here.
You see here an arrow.
You see here 23 arrows.
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
You fly upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon!
There is a gate to the Vaults here.
Items here: %% ::: === ??
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop 3 bread rations.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop a scroll of magic mapping.
You drop 3 scrolls of remove curse.
You drop a scroll of enchant armour.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Identify which item? (\ to view known items) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll of identify {@*1}, it crumbles to dust.
m - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop an uncursed ring of protection from cold.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Char dumped successfully.
Save game and exit?


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    50 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    50
       Club              |     7 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     7
       Cutlass           |    14 |    27 |       |       |       |       |       ||    41
       Mace              |       |    44 |    57 |       |       |       |       ||   101
       Long sword        |       |       |   341 |   112 |       |       |       ||   453
       Great sword       |       |       |       |   541 |       |       |       ||   541
       Lajatang          |       |       |       |    69 |  1722 |  1455 |   389 ||  3635
Throw: Dart              |       |    34 |    34 |     2 |       |       |       ||    70
Invok: Lesser Healing    |    63 |    63 |   111 |   134 |    89 |   125 |    35 ||   620
       Lesser Self-Heali |     1 |       |     1 |     5 |     1 |       |       ||     8
       Greater Healing   |       |    10 |    25 |    11 |    10 |    20 |     6 ||    82
       Greater Self-Heal |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       ||     3
 Abil: Evoke Flight      |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |    22 |     4 |     3 |       ||    29
       Lamp of fire      |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     3 |     6 |     6 |    11 |    18 |    13 |     2 ||    59
       Potion            |       |     1 |     9 |     3 |     1 |     3 |       ||    17


Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | zzxc, the Hill Orc Healer, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 2/2
   331 | D:1      | HP: 4/16 [giant cockroach (1)]
   335 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations
   531 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/23 MP: 2/4
  1283 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: ok
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: we all need to win one more game, I'd say
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: gotta try to get into top 20
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: gogogo
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: i am noob :(
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: had a good character
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: and auto explored onto an alarm trap
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: worst thing i've ever experienced in crawl
  1488 | D:2      | zzxc: lol
  1488 | D:2      | zzxc: yeah that was horrible
  1488 | D:2      | zzxc: alarm trap in shoals 5 far from stairs with no escape (formicid)
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: my Ko was basically a formicid
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: until I got a bunch of stuff to make up for my deficiencies
  1488 | D:2      | Demise: and adjusted to let me haste and stuff
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: there was like 3 screens full of enemies
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: and no where to rn
  1488 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: run*
  1488 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/28 MP: 6/6
  1492 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: just died so slowly due to 50 SH
  1591 | D:2      | zzxc: if I don't screw up early game
  1591 | D:2      | zzxc: I should ascend this
  1591 | D:2      | zzxc: then MiBe next
  1591 | D:2      | zzxc: I can't screw up MiBe righgt
  1650 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: you're on fire this tournament
  1650 | D:2      | Sixotanaka: so probably not
  1933 | D:3      | Demise: does ascending mean that it won't break a streak?
  1933 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Invocations
  1933 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/35 MP: 2/9
  1934 | D:3      | Demise: also, a MiBe will give you next to no points
  1934 | D:3      | zzxc: playing to continue streak
  1934 | D:3      | zzxc: not looking at points
  1934 | D:3      | zzxc: sorry cap'n
  1934 | D:3      | Demise: I see
  1936 | D:2      | Demise: well, I don't know how streaks work
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: it means
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: I don't die
  1936 | D:2      | Demise: but I thought ascending means you lose your streak
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: and win each game
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: I won GrEE and SpEn back to back
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: that's a two win streak
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: if I win this that's three
  1936 | D:2      | zzxc: but it's early yet
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: also I g2g, back after
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: Every game in a streak must be the first game you start after winning the previous game in the streak
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: from rulebook
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: you can't ascend this guy btw
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: ?
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: as in, you can't "escape"
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: you have to win this game if you want the streak
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: yes
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: that's what I plan to do
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: ascend = win
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: oh ok
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: I thought you mean ascend as in leave dungeon
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: and start again
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: lol, no
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: wot u on about
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: anyway I've done my research
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: just based on what you said
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: I can't possibly screw up HOHe unless it's early game
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: why is that?
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: He is pretty hard nowadays
  2017 | D:3      | Demise: because of insect pacification and whatnot
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: we'll see
  2017 | D:3      | zzxc: leaving now
  2222 | D:3      | Noticed horri's ghost (weakling DsAK)
  2278 | D:3      | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
  2751 | D:3      | Acquired Elyvilon's third power
  2981 | D:3      | Pacified horri's ghost
  2981 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Invocations
  2981 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 40/40 MP: 8/12
  3344 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3380 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3382 | D:4      | Pacified an ogre
  3521 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Invocations
  4073 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4081 | D:5      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4201 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 47/47 MP: 15/15
  4381 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  4382 | D:4      | Pacified Sigmund
  4382 | D:4      | Reached skill level 9 in Invocations
  4583 | D:5      | Noticed Duvessa
  4583 | D:5      | Noticed Dowan
  4592 | D:5      | Pacified Duvessa
  4592 | D:5      | Pacified Dowan
  4993 | D:5      | Pacified Prince Ribbit
  4993 | D:5      | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
  4993 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 52/52 MP: 15/19
  5205 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  5206 | D:5      | Pacified Crazy Yiuf
  5225 | D:5      | Noticed Eustachio
  5225 | D:5      | Demise: hey did you say anything before you left?
  5225 | D:5      | zzxc: nah
  5225 | D:5      | Demise: I didn't check before you closed the browser
  5225 | D:5      | Demise: oh ok
  5225 | D:5      | zzxc: just had to brb
  5227 | D:5      | Pacified Eustachio
  5571 | D:6      | Noticed Natasha
  5573 | D:6      | Pacified Natasha
  5618 | D:6      | Reached skill level 11 in Invocations
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: axes are your highest aptitude, why don't you use them?
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: was recommended against them
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: I think because good axes are 2h
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: I see
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: and 1h makes more sense on thsi char
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: since I can pacify almost everything
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: need to just stay alive to pacify
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: normally good 1 handed weapons are demononic
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: yes, so idk
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: actually there are really good 1 handed longswords
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: longblade*
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: actually it's the same for long blades and maces so which ever is fine
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: so I have no idea
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: I've never played a maces or longblade char
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: always axes
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: maces are a bit better for hydras and since you have a good one you may as well do that
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: or staves with casters
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: hydras I will pacify
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: main concerns are killerbees and OOF later on
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: they should be the same either way
  5916 | D:6      | zzxc: well I like the flavour of lblades a bit more
  5916 | D:6      | Megaslime: go for it then
  6154 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
  6169 | D:6      | HP: 13/52 [worker ant (7)]
  6174 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 53/59 MP: 22/22
  6283 | D:6      | Reached skill level 2 in Long Blades
  6393 | D:6      | Reached skill level 3 in Long Blades
  6815 | D:6      | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
  6947 | D:7      | Noticed Ijyb
  6953 | D:7      | Pacified Ijyb
  6969 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  7222 | D:7      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  7284 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  7288 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  7288 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  7315 | D:7      | HP: 12/59 [giant frog (7)]
  7576 | D:7      | Pacified Joseph
  7576 | D:7      | Reached skill level 7 in Long Blades
  7579 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  7586 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  7761 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 61/64 MP: 21/23
  7769 | D:8      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  7777 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Long Blades
  8275 | D:9      | Reached skill level 9 in Long Blades
  8295 | D:9      | HP: 19/64 [something (25)]
  8301 | D:9      | HP: 19/64 [crimson imp (1)]
  8318 | D:9      | HP: 18/64 [crimson imp (1)]
  8581 | D:9      | HP: 17/64 [orc warrior/trident (5)]
  8591 | D:9      | HP: 14/64 [orc/flail (5)]
  8718 | D:9      | HP: 17/64 [yak (8)]
  8813 | D:9      | HP: 18/64 [yak (2)]
  8814 | D:9      | HP: 6/64 [yak (12)]
  8829 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8833 | D:10     | HP: 15/64 [giant frog (4)]
  8840 | D:10     | HP: 19/64 [giant frog (1)]
  8902 | D:10     | HP: 14/64 [wraith (7)]
  9152 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
  9465 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  9673 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  9711 | Lair:1   | Noticed a komodo dragon
  9712 | Lair:1   | Pacified a komodo dragon
  9731 | Lair:1   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
  9734 | Lair:1   | Pacified a six-headed hydra
  9734 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Long Blades
  9734 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 10. HP: 71/71 MP: 22/24
  9983 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 12 in Long Blades
 10102 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 12 in Invocations
 10610 | Lair:2   | Noticed a five-headed hydra
 10611 | Lair:2   | Pacified a five-headed hydra
 10611 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 13 in Invocations
 10683 | Lair:2   | Acquired Elyvilon's fourth power
 11539 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 14 in Invocations
 11575 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
 11578 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 2 in Armour
 11670 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 3 in Armour
 11764 | Lair:3   | Got a warped scale mail
 11782 | Lair:3   | Identified the +3 scale mail of Reason {+Rage +Fly Stlth++} (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11798 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
 11828 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 77/77 MP: 25/27
 11832 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 12291 | Lair:4   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 12298 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 6 in Armour
 12307 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 12351 | Lab      | HP: 23/77 [poisoned by a trapdoor spider]
 12586 | Lab      | zzxc: how to deal with this  situation?
 12868 | Lab      | zzxc: why on earth are there enemies in this labyrinth
 12904 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: throw the wands at him!
 12963 | Lab      | zzxc: oh no, unseen horror?
 12963 | Lab      | zzxc: I can't deal with this
 12986 | Lab      | Killed an unseen horror
 12986 | Lab      | Reached skill level 7 in Armour
 13025 | Lab      | HP: 23/77 [something (3)]
 13041 | Lab      | HP: 21/77 [something (4)]
 13046 | Lab      | HP: 20/77 [something (2)]
 13048 | Lab      | Killed an unseen horror
 13061 | Lab      | zzxc: this is so weird
 13420 | Lab      | Reached skill level 8 in Armour
 13541 | Lab      | zzxc: SIGHHH
 13804 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: on the brightside youre getting a lot more goodies than the natural labyrinth
 13807 | Lab      | zzxc: this is a lot harder
 13815 | Lab      | Got a vibrating granite ring
 13864 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 13866 | Lab      | Pacified a minotaur
 13881 | Lab      | Got a warped golden ring
 13881 | Lab      | Got a twisted lajatang
 13881 | Lab      | Got a warped plate armour
 13903 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: not too late to ditch elv? :P
 13908 | Lab      | zzxc: I thought I saw some rings...
 13952 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: didnt you grab at least one art?
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: yes
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: just now though
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: I thought I saw something
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: oh i picked them up
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: lol
 13954 | Lab      | zzxc: damn that's a lot of loot
 13954 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: thats some gear
 13980 | Lab      | Identified the cursed -2 plate armour of Filth {rC+} (You found it in a labyrinth)
 13980 | Lab      | zzxc: hmm...
 13980 | Lab      | Fiveotanaka: you win some, you lose some
 13980 | Lab      | Sixotanaka: plate armour of filth
 13985 | Lab      | Sixotanaka: brb
 13986 | Lab      | zzxc: best armour?
 14020 | Lab      | zzxc: 19-9 vs 22-6
 14217 | Lair:4   | Fiveotanaka: id probably take 19-9
 14280 | Lair:4   | Fiveotanaka: awww fuck ya
 14281 | Lair:4   | Fiveotanaka: altar of jiyva
 14281 | Lair:4   | zzxc: where is my dmg
 14308 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 9 in Armour
 14373 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 14929 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 13 in Long Blades
 15208 | Lair:4   | HP: 20/77 [giant gecko (4)]
 15215 | Lair:4   | HP: 19/77 [poisoned by a spiny frog]
 15223 | Lair:4   | HP: 18/77 [poisoned by a spiny frog]
 15802 | Lair:5   | Identified the +11,+10 lajatang "Chesch" {flame, rF+ rC+ MR+ SInv} (You found it in a labyrinth)
 16044 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 2 in Fighting
 16044 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 74/85 MP: 29/29
 16048 | Lair:5   | Identified the ring of the Invisible Hand {rN+ MR+ SInv} (You found it in a labyrinth)
 16131 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
 16158 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
 16219 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 16246 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
 16551 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 2 in Staves
 16804 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 3 in Staves
 17122 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 4 in Staves
 17462 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
 17614 | Lair:5   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 17615 | Lair:5   | Pacified an eight-headed hydra
 17618 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 17619 | Lair:6   | Pacified a death yak
 17620 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 17620 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 17620 | Lair:6   | Pacified a death yak
 17622 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 17627 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 6 in Staves
 17793 | Lair:5   | Pacified a death yak
 17854 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 7 in Staves
 17967 | Lair:6   | Pacified a death yak
 18381 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 8 in Staves
 18685 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 70/100 MP: 28/29
 18794 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 18814 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 9 in Staves
 19008 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 19723 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 20338 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
 20828 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 20828 | Lair:8   | Noticed Nergalle
 20829 | Lair:8   | Pacified Nergalle
 20829 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
 21008 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
 21552 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 15 in Invocations
 22458 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 16 in Invocations
 22895 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
 22901 | Lair:8   | Noticed a dire elephant
 22902 | Lair:8   | Pacified a dire elephant
 22902 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 113/118 MP: 32/32
 22907 | Lair:8   | Noticed a dire elephant
 22920 | Lair:8   | Pacified a dire elephant
 23150 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 23179 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 23490 | Lair:8   | HP: 36/121 [sun demon (6)]
 23506 | Lair:8   | zzxc: damn so lagguy
 23757 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 11 in Staves
 23942 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 24889 | D:9      | zzxc: this is the floor I almost died of starvation in
 24889 | D:9      | zzxc: d9
 24894 | D:9      | Sixotanaka: lol
 24899 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 26532 | D:11     | Reached skill level 12 in Staves
 27797 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 28049 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 28178 | Orc:1    | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 28499 | Orc:2    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 28566 | Orc:2    | Found Giupneam's Gadget Shoppe.
 28763 | Orc:1    | Found Gucvin's Gadget Boutique.
 29251 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 29432 | Orc:3    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 29555 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 29555 | Orc:4    | Noticed Donald
 29559 | Orc:4    | Noticed Erica
 29578 | Orc:3    | Killed Donald
 29794 | Orc:4    | Killed Erica
 29794 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 17 in Invocations
 30315 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 30647 | Orc:4    | Noticed an orc warlord
 30651 | Orc:4    | Pacified an orc warlord
 30651 | Orc:4    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 91/132 MP: 28/33
 30718 | Orc:4    | HP: 35/132 [orc knight/glowing long sword (11)]
 30729 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 30944 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 30978 | Orc:4    | Found Tiuleott's Antique Armour Emporium.
 31005 | Orc:4    | Found Traluquke's Book Emporium.
 31309 | Orc:4    | Found Sarr's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 31370 | Orc:4    | Found Psuehag's General Store.
 31384 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 75 gold pieces
 31384 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 75 gold pieces
 31408 | Orc:4    | Bought a runed cloak for 153 gold pieces
 31408 | Orc:4    | Bought a shiny helmet for 153 gold pieces
 32155 | Lair:4   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 32257 | Lair:4   | zzxc: I still take decent dmg
 32600 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 33401 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 33422 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 34546 | Swamp:2  | zzxc: CPA or PA?
 34716 | Swamp:2  | Reached skill level 18 in Invocations
 35464 | Swamp:3  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 35717 | Swamp:1  | Got a flickering bone ring
 35995 | Swamp:3  | Identified the ring of Cotuttid {+Inv rC++ Acc+2 Dam+3} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Swamp)
 36002 | Swamp:3  | zzxc: this just keeps getting better and better
 36412 | Swamp:3  | Reached skill level 19 in Invocations
 37591 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 13 in Staves
 37606 | Swamp:4  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 121/139 MP: 35/35
 38087 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 38289 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Mara
 38329 | Swamp:5  | zzxc: oh right, I can PACIFY mara
 38329 | Swamp:5  | zzxc: here I was thinking I was a berserker
 38341 | Swamp:5  | Noticed zzxc's illusion
 38350 | Swamp:4  | zzxc: need to learn more invocations before I can pacify mara
 38534 | Lair:2   | Got a transparent helmet
 38538 | Lair:2   | Identified the -2 helmet "Phaememuw" {Acc+4} (You acquired it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)
 38687 | Lair:6   | the staircase to the Snake Pit was a mimic.
 38871 | Spider:1 | zzxc: comparing this to SpEn is like light and day
 38871 | Spider:1 | zzxc: I guess good rng is good rng
 39067 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 14 in Staves
 39330 | Spider:1 | Noticed Kirke
 39346 | Spider:1 | Killed Kirke
 39845 | Spider:1 | Noticed Nikola
 39857 | Spider:1 | Killed Nikola
 39857 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 11 in Armour
 39864 | Spider:1 | Got a pair of fine gloves
 39989 | Spider:1 | Identified the cursed -3 pair of gloves of Twilight {Str+3 Int+4} (You took it off Nikola on level 1 of the Spider Nest)
 40412 | Spider:1 | Reached skill level 12 in Armour
 41583 | Spider:3 | Noticed Arachne
 41957 | D:12     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 41963 | D:12     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 42007 | D:12     | Reached skill level 13 in Armour
 42473 | D:12     | Got a dazzling plate armour
 42495 | D:12     | Identified the +10 plate armour of Smumuvise {Str+5 Dex-4 Dam+4} (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 42495 | D:12     | zzxc: duuuuuude
 42495 | D:12     | zzxc: what the fuck
 43429 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 43669 | D:13     | Reached skill level 20 in Invocations
 43717 | D:14     | Reached XP level 17. HP: 146/146 MP: 36/36
 44425 | D:14     | Noticed Harold
 44437 | D:14     | Killed Harold
 44550 | D:14     | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 44583 | D:14     | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 44847 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 45035 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 45131 | D:15     | Reached skill level 21 in Invocations
 45307 | D:15     | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 46663 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Fusentrap's ghost (powerful NaBe)
 46733 | Swamp:5  | Killed Fusentrap's ghost
 46763 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Snorg
 46816 | Swamp:5  | Killed Snorg
 46942 | Swamp:5  | Noticed zzxc's illusion
 47166 | Swamp:5  | Killed Mara
 47166 | Swamp:5  | Reached skill level 14 in Armour
 47168 | Swamp:5  | zzxc: demon blade of pain
 47168 | Swamp:5  | zzxc: daaaamn
 47253 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Rupert
 47257 | Swamp:5  | Pacified Rupert
 47425 | Swamp:5  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 47437 | Swamp:5  | Killed a thorn hunter
 47870 | Swamp:5  | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
 47952 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 48167 | Swamp:3  | Killed a thorn hunter
 48528 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 48745 | Vaults:1 | Noticed Agnes
 48756 | Vaults:1 | Killed Agnes
 48841 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 49113 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 157/157 MP: 35/37
 50072 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 22 in Invocations
 51141 | Vaults:2 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 51295 | Vaults:2 | Noticed zejeff's ghost (great KoBe)
 51363 | Vaults:2 | Killed zejeff's ghost
 51456 | Vaults:2 | HP: 42/157 [flayed ghost/flay_damage (20)]
 51457 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 23 in Invocations
 52186 | Vaults:3 | HP: 43/157 [yaktaur/ steel bolt[a vault warden] (12)]
 52980 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 24 in Invocations
 53376 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 53381 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 148/167 MP: 39/39
 53795 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 54538 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 54538 | Vaults:3 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 54539 | Vaults:3 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 54721 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 16 in Fighting
 55550 | Vaults:4 | Found a staircase to the Hall of Blades.
 55560 | Blade    | Entered the Hall of Blades
 55615 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting
 55819 | Vaults:4 | Found Kas Ekha's Antique Weapon Shoppe.

Vanquished Creatures
  Mara (Swamp:5)
  Nikola (Spider:1)
  The ghost of zejeff the Slayer, a great KoBe of Dithmenos (Vaults:2)
  A sphinx (Vaults:1)
  3 thorn hunters
  Agnes (Vaults:1)
  Kirke (Spider:1)
  2 frost giants (Vaults:3)
  Donald (Orc:3)
  4 vault wardens
  A fire giant (Vaults:3)
  An orc warlord (Vaults:3)
  An emperor scorpion (Spider:1)
  7 stone giants
  A war gargoyle (Vaults:4)
  2 ettins (Vaults:3)
  A crystal guardian (Vaults:2)
  Snorg (Swamp:5)
  6 yaktaur captains
  2 fire dragons
  9 hydras
  11 vault guards (Vaults:4)
  2 ironheart preservers
  A great orb of eyes (Vaults:3)
  Harold (D:14)
  4 ice dragons (Swamp:5)
  A ravenous feature mimic (Vaults:2)
  The ghost of Fusentrap the Impaler, a powerful NaBe of Trog (Swamp:5)
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:4)
  Erica (Orc:4)
  3 alligators
  A sun demon (Lair:8)
  2 death yaks (Lair:7)
  A vampire mage (D:15)
  7 centaur warriors
  2 shadow wraiths
  4 deep elf knights
  6 skeletal warriors
  2 iron trolls
  6 orb spiders
  A deep elf summoner (Vaults:3)
  A giant orange brain (Vaults:4)
  4 deep trolls
  11 unseen horrors
  An ironbrand convoker (Vaults:3)
  A hill giant (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  2 hill giants
  A wizard (Vaults:3)
  2 flayed ghosts
  3 necromancers
  6 two-headed ogres
  A deep elf conjurer (Vaults:3)
  7 red wasps
  3 orc sorcerers (Orc:4)
  18 orc knights
  A fire giant zombie (D:15)
  9 wolf spiders (Spider:1)
  5 griffons
  3 manticores
  3 cyclopes
  5 elephants
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  4 orange demons (Lair:8)
  6 vault sentinels
  2 feature mimics
  A smoke demon (Lair:8)
  A yaktaur zombie (Vaults:3)
  2 vapours (Swamp:3)
  7 demonic crawlers
  An iron devil (D:13)
  3 kobold demonologists
  A queen ant (Lair:5)
  17 yaktaurs
  A centaur zombie (D:15)
  A yaktaur (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  An iron troll zombie (D:15)
  A komodo dragon (Lair:8)
  A minotaur zombie (Lab)
  18 spiny frogs
  A deep elf priest (Vaults:3)
  A hydra zombie (D:15)
  12 jumping spiders
  A baby alligator (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  4 fire drakes
  3 giant fireflies
  2 blue devils (Lair:8)
  A troll (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  8 freezing wraiths
  8 trolls
  3 red devils (Lair:8)
  6 giant leeches
  4 baby alligators (Swamp:2)
  7 bog bodies
  41 slime creatures
  A human zombie (Vaults:3)
  7 boulder beetles
  10 ravens
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A minotaur skeleton (Lab)
  2 basilisks (Lair:5)
  6 shadows
  A thorn lotus (Swamp:5)
  14 blink frogs
  4 brown oozes (Swamp:2)
  3 wyverns
  23 redbacks
  4 spriggans
  An ice dragon skeleton (D:15)
  5 wraiths
  2 grizzly bears (Lair:8)
  10 trapdoor spiders
  2 human skeletons (Vaults:3)
  2 sharks
  An elephant slug (Lair:8)
  32 yaks
  A hill giant zombie (D:15)
  2 hogs (Spider:1)
  6 deep elf magi
  5 hungry ghosts
  30 vampire mosquitoes
  16 ugly things
  5 hippogriffs
  5 tarantellas
  5 wargs
  2 deep elf fighters
  7 soldier ants
  3 nagas (Lair:6)
  2 steam dragons
  A deep troll zombie (Vaults:3)
  21 swamp worms
  A hell hound (Lair:8)
  5 wolves
  5 swamp worm simulacra (Swamp:5)
  12 hydra simulacra (Swamp:5)
  55 orc warriors
  11 porcupines
  A tengu skeleton (D:13)
  3 spiders
  14 water moccasins
  6 swamp drakes
  2 phantoms
  2 sky beasts
  7 giant goldfish
  A human simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  16 centaurs
  An ice beast (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  6 boring beetles
  28 ogres
  A yellow wasp (Spider:1)
  An ettin simulacrum (Vaults:3)
  10 crocodiles
  A big kobold (D:11)
  15 giant slugs
  11 giant frogs
  A cyclops zombie (D:13)
  12 worker ants
  A yaktaur skeleton (Vaults:3)
  15 insubstantial wisps
  4 scorpions
  A spriggan skeleton (Lab)
  An electric eel (D:9)
  A yak skeleton (D:10)
  A jelly (D:11)
  8 wights (D:13)
  4 crimson imps
  A boring beetle zombie (D:15)
  3 goliath beetles
  4 big fish
  A giant frog skeleton (D:10)
  13 orc priests
  2 centaur skeletons
  6 hounds
  31 orc wizards
  6 iguanas
  A killer bee zombie (D:5)
  10 sheep
  An ogre zombie (D:7)
  A big kobold skeleton (D:7)
  2 ogre skeletons
  A hound zombie (D:9)
  A mummy (D:13)
  A worker ant zombie (D:6)
  17 adders
  9 orc zombies (Orc:4)
  A shadow imp (D:13)
  4 giant mites
  35 green rats
  An orc skeleton (D:6)
  2 worms
  2 white imps
  3 swamp drake simulacra (Swamp:5)
  An adder skeleton (D:6)
  An iguana skeleton (D:4)
  4 giant eyeballs
  7 giant geckos
  3 oozes (D:2)
  219 orcs
  A bat skeleton (D:8)
  8 giant cockroaches
  7 hobgoblins
  9 jackals
  11 quokkas
  A ball python (D:3)
  9 bats
  A giant cockroach zombie (D:6)
  2 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:6)
  6 goblins
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:6)
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:9)
  8 kobolds
  A kobold skeleton (D:4)
  10 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:9)
  A plant (Swamp:2)
1344 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A trapdoor spider (Lair:4)
1 creature vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A sphinx (Vaults:4)
  A vault warden (Vaults:3)
  A fire dragon (Vaults:3)
  2 ogre magi
  A hydra (Swamp:3)
  2 centaur warriors (Vaults:2)
  A deep elf knight (Vaults:3)
  2 wizards
  An unseen horror (Vaults:1)
  3 ironbrand convokers
  A deep elf conjurer (D:14)
  An elephant (Lair:5)
  A cyclops (Vaults:1)
  2 yaktaurs (Vaults:3)
  A spiny frog (Swamp:2)
  2 komodo dragons
  A giant firefly (Swamp:4)
  A raven (Swamp:3)
  2 spriggans
  3 ugly things (Vaults:2)
  2 humans (Spider:1)
  8 yaks
  2 hungry ghosts (Lab)
  A swamp worm (Swamp:5)
  A water moccasin (Lair:3)
  A porcupine (Lair:3)
  An ice beast (D:8)
  A giant goldfish (Lair:8)
  An ogre (Vaults:4)
  A crocodile (Swamp:3)
  A phantom (D:6)
  A giant slug (Lair:3)
  3 insubstantial wisps
  2 giant frogs
  An electric eel (Lair:8)
  2 wights
  2 big fish
  5 orc wizards
  5 orc priests
  A worker ant (D:5)
  An ogre skeleton (Lab)
  2 gnolls (D:6)
  An adder (Lair:1)
  12 orcs
  A hobgoblin (D:1)
  3 jackals
  A kobold (D:8)
  3 bats
  A giant newt (D:1)
  A giant spore (D:9)
  2 goblins
  9 fungi
  3 plants
112 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1457 creatures vanquished

RNG has been kind to this character, unlike my previous SpEn. The very early game was a lot harder than posts in this thread made it sound however, and this was due to food. Pacifying everything unless hungry was not good enough, and I was starving on a couple of occasions despite my best efforts, though everything was resolved when I finally found lair. I think a more even mixture between pacifying and killing is best, or perhaps only pacifying trash when you have chunks on hand. Trapdoor spiders in lair and labyrinth hurt really bad. Odd weapon skilling was due to deciding on LBlades, then finding that amazing lajatang in labyrinth.

[tasonir]

Our discussion was about the piety gain, not the exp gain. Some things on D:1 are worth 2 experience; giant geckos, hobgoblins, etc, but that doesn't really matter.

...then why not pacify them?

Food costs. Higher failure rate and I only have 2 mana. I can't get the equipment they were using. It's really easy to find a dagger and stab things that are very unlikely to do much damage past damage shaving. I don't find it easy to actually get piety on d1-3, it's far easier to just sac weapons and wait a few floors to pacify something with enough hp to give more piety.

Maybe I'm still wrong in all of this, like I said, I only played one healer, but I just remember being extremely impressed how easy piety in lair was, and it doesn't make struggling for piety in dungeon seem like it's worthwhile.

[Sar]

I don't have a terrible amount of He experience, but I don't get your argument. You want Ely piety to use Greater Healing, which is both an instakill abilityl you can use on scary things and a powerful and practically unlimited combat healing. Sure you can get it in Lair, but Lair is so easy you probably won't even need it there - while in the early game grinder, you often do.

[duvessa]

I don't find it easy to actually get piety on d1-3

thats not surprising because you arent willing to try pacifying things

[Eyesburn]

Start as an Hill Orc Monk for easier pre-temple, pre-lair game, when you get Elyvilon your piety will be **(because of Monk background), then sacrifice all weapons/ammo you found along the way, and soon you'll have piety ***

[Sar]

Healers start the game with Ely and ** piety, which is stronger than UC Monks get.

[Eyesburn]

Healers start the game with Ely and ** piety, which seems stronger much than UC Monks get.

Aye, I know that Healers start with Ely and piety **;
but how can piety ** with Healer can be stronger then piety ** with Monk ? Anyway either way you'll get *** soon.

[duvessa]

but how can piety ** with Healer can be stronger then piety ** with Monk ?

how many ely altars have you seen on turn 0

[Eyesburn]

but how can piety ** with Healer can be stronger then piety ** with Monk ?

how many ely altars have you seen on turn 0

0
I just gave an example Im currently playing (HOMo, XL 12, at Lair 3, piety ****), also played HOHe, didnt have problems to get *** with both chars, but early game with Monk was somehow easier without tension.

[crate]

Healers also get 4 (?) curing/heal wounds potions combined so you effectively get a bit more piety (since with ely curing/hw pots basically just replace uses of piety-costing abilities).