Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 04:51 by NessOnett
Woah, this thread I started appears to have deviated significantly from its original intent. And I feel like as the cause I need to bring up a few points from the perspective of...well...me.
Firstly, and I think this is somewhat important. The game has changed a lot since its inception. And the concept of a 3-rune win seems...outdated? I get that 3 is the minimum required, but as time has passed the difficulty between vault and slime has gotten lessened to the point of them being almost the same. And if I were to clear one, I would have no qualms about doing the other. And I don't think it until you have exhausted those first 4 that the difficulty and risk spike dramatically. There also seems to be this concept of a binary dichotomy that there's only 3 and 15 rune choices. And I couldn't disagree more. Ignoring the fact that the first 4 are relatively 'easy' for an XL27 character...even a shitty one; a lot of characters don't have the tools for X or Y endgame area and end up with 11 runes. Or the player dislikes scumming the endless abyss and cuts it at 14. It's not just one or the other.
Secondly, I want to respond to Duvessa specifically regarding her assessment of rMut. And I would like to make a big point of one fact in particular before I begin. You have been here presumably a loooong time. You know the game in and out, backwards and forwards, in ways that most people probably never will. But when a thread like this comes along, and there is a relatively new player(technically been playing on and off for years, but only 1 win to date), you need to take into account that the player is new when giving them advice. In you know X, Y, and Z, you can probably minimize exposure to mutations and thus be able to brave any challenge without relevant resistance. But to someone who is new, they lack that knowledge, and that efficiency, and need suggestions with that in mind. And to that end, I want to provide 2 anecdotes regarding my experience in the game.
1. On the character before this, I was a NaFe. I was feeling pretty confident having blasted my way through this and that without having been in any serious danger for a while. So I decided, given that sources here and there(like you) had claimed that hell was no big deal without rMut(outside of a few specific demons which I was watching carefully for). Well, I went in. Took a couple steps, and lost 10% of my max health almost instantly to a mutation.(I didn't notice at the time, learned this from the log afterwards). I start wandering the floor, looking for a staircase, killing stuff on the way, acting like I had no idea what I was doing against these enemies I had little or no experience against(because I didn't). I see the staircase, and then a bunch of enemies pop out around me, as they had been doing, typical hell stuff. And then I get confused. And I...get confused(IRL), because I had a clarity mutation on me...which should have prevented me from getting confused. So I open up my list of mutations, and much to my surprise I had lost 2 beneficial mutations, and gained a total of 4 negative ones...including 20% hp loss. Keep in mind I had been in hell for only a few hundred turns, and in that time had not been contaminated at all. So I exited hell, tried to finish the game, and died(Zot:3) mostly due to the overall loss of character power brought on by such extensive mutation(I had found literally 0 curemut potions all game). And this is just from the ambient effects of hell, with no contamination and no neqs or cacos, in just the time it takes to clear half a floor of a single branch. Maybe if I was more experienced I could have gone through the area faster. I wouldn't have stopped to fight things and just kept a brisk pace. I may have abused mapping and cTele to rush through. But these are things that I, as a 'new' player wasn't familiar with or utilizing. So in less than a single floor, I got malmutated beyond repair, all of which was(likely) preventable by rMut.
2. Let's go back in time. A long time. My first breakout character, a MiFi of Okawaru. I've got my axe and my finesse, and I'm just cleaving through everything. I've got 3 runes in tow and am clearing Zot at a blistering pace. I feel invincible. First time I hit level 27, I'm like 'i can't get any stronger'(having a gross misunderstanding of how skill levels worked). I have 0 mutations up until this point, haven't even seen anything that can mutate me, and I don't fully understand what a big detriment they can be. And I haven't seen any of these things I'm fighting before. I know OoFs can mutate me but in my mind it's like 'I'm in Zot5, so what?' I run into an OoF, run at him with hasted speed, and cut it down. I see a second, and I repeat the process. And I notice all these changes in my stats. I open up my mutation menu out of curiosity. In those 2 separate encounters with 2 singular OoFs that I killed in short order, I acquired a whopping 12 negative mutations. Which caused me to be so weak that I die in a single hit from the next Greater Lich I saw. Needless to say I was heartbroken by this, and it caused me to not play for over a year out of frustration. Again, maybe if I had had more practice in drawing orbs around corners, if I had known enough to invest in more offensive or mobility options to expose myself less, or had general other better knowledge of the game that I probably still don't possess, then yes maybe I could have dealt with those orbs without being so horribly disfigured. But as a new player, I don't. I can't. And you need to understand that before you start giving advice that is only relevant to those who already know it.
So after having my 2 most promising characters ever...and the only 2 characters I had ever gotten to XL27, die to being horribly malmutated in a relatively short period of time...I was not ready to take that risk again. And I don't understand how a veteran can look at new players and tell them they should just be better and not need it. I've seen people clear the game with an AC of 3 and an EV of 12 because they know how to evade fights. But I wouldn't turn around and tell someone who was new: "nah, you don't need defensive stats, you can just play better." No, new players need that layer of protection to hedge against their inexperience. Which is exactly why most people say that new players should begin starting with 3 runes. Because they're new. They need every advantage they can get so that they can get that experience and can learn to play without them eventually. Unless you're going to argue that you were a master of the game from day 1, never lost a game, and never got a source of mutation resistance...ever. In which case, most people still wouldn't be you.
I can clear Dark Souls up to NG+7 with a SL 1 character using bare fists(takes forever, I wouldn't recommend it). But I didn't start out doing that. I started out using heavy armor, a big shield, grinding for levels, and taking every advantage the game offered me to make it easier. So that I could advance as a player instead of just dying a hundred times in the burg, getting frustrated, and quitting forever.(I apologize to those who don't play Dark Souls and don't understand the reference...but I'm assuming at least some people do and can't think of any more universal examples).
All that being said, still a massive deviation from the point of the topic. Which was where am I 'least likely' to be mutated assuming I'm playing at a low level(in terms of player experience, not character power). Which never truly got answered by anyone. But from what I can infer at this point seems to be: "Places that aren't hell." Does that seem a relatively accurate assessment?
- For this message the author NessOnett has received thanks: 3
- GlassGo, Hopeless, Sandman25